All my dreams come true… (Presser) - Merged

[Dastardly and Muttley]

1 hour ago, mozo said:

I think we should be prepared for a tough game and not expect to run wings round them!

Obvs I disagree with lots of that, but you talk about improvement being the target, well that's still in our gift this season. I don't think we can catch up with 10th but if we did, that's a decent season.

I meant improvement on where we were when NP left us - 4 points off the playoffs.

We won’t end up 4 points away.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, ExiledAjax said:

Oh. Um. But the players and coaches have all changed to one degree or another, and in some cases even the actual clubs have changed. I'm not sure this really works as a method of comparing tbh Pop.

Ultimately I think we'll see that the squad is the squad. And finishes where it finishes. When Pearson was sacked I think I said something like "Barney the dinosaur could manage this squad and it would finish 11th".

Looks like they'll both finish with something around 1.3-1.4 ppg attributed to them.

Bar the drama at the end of October this season has simply been forgettable.

Get that but is about us to son3 degree too. Building on a solid base or what Should have been EA. What was sold to us late October, early November.

@mozo I would say to that, an attempt for said ambitious, be a working young coach to change a bit too quickly perhaps hindered us. 23 have had some ropey runs and some good runs. The baseline has been very variable too and some of that might be attributed to trying to change too much too soon.

[mozo]

2 minutes ago, Dastardly and Muttley said:

I meant improvement on where we were when NP left us - 4 points off the playoffs.

We won’t end up 4 points away.

League position or points off playoffs, which is a better standard? Subjective I guess.

[Mr Popodopolous]

When NP left we were 5 off, when the change itself was made ie post the Fleming game it was 4.

We are currently 11 so people can draw their own conclusions really.

Based on the trajectory of November we are a win light.

Edited April 4 by Mr Popodopolous

[Dastardly and Muttley]

Just now, mozo said:

League position or points off playoffs, which is a better standard? Subjective I guess.

Whichever is closest to our stated goal of promotion. Which we’ve failed to achieve, or come close to, again because of a mid-season self-inflicted derailment of a season. 
Fair to say, I don’t see NP as a hero either. The Danny Simpson signing really stung me. But, I’ve argued for years and years that the one thing this team lacked was players, managers and executives with top flight experience. We had it in NP, Alexander, King, Weimann and James, and we now look to be getting rid of all of that within a season.

Hard to get there if you don’t know what “there” is all about.

[Davefevs]

12 minutes ago, mozo said:

That's living in fantasy fairyland Dave. You're too smart for that. 

There was absolutely no reason for any of us to expect anything other than a hard-working, studious, ambitious young coach to have a go at implementing his philosophy. We had no right to expect top 6 or even top 10. We have to live in the real world. 

Totally agree with this!

Not sure if you’re being straight or not.

We have no right to demand, but we absolutely had a right to set an expectation and that it not unreasonable to get 10th.  We were 11th when he took over, injured players returning, Jan window ahead.  The fallacy of “needs his own players” seems forgotten when we win, especially winning well against dare I say it Southampton and Leicester.

So, no, not fantasy fairyland at all.

Now, had our new head-coach approached it differently, why not execute better.  Too much change, too soon.  Didn’t understand what capability he had here.  He certainly hasn’t implemented his philosophy of - high press, attacking football, controlling games through possession, has he?

I can’t believe the excuses made for him.

[mozo]

1 minute ago, Dastardly and Muttley said:

Whichever is closest to our stated goal of promotion. Which we’ve failed to achieve, or come close to, again because of a mid-season self-inflicted derailment of a season. 
Fair to say, I don’t see NP as a hero either. The Danny Simpson signing really stung me. But, I’ve argued for years and years that the one thing this team lacked was players, managers and executives with top flight experience. We had it in NP, Alexander, King, Weimann and James, and we now look to be getting rid of all of that within a season.

Hard to get there if you don’t know what “there” is all about.

I just checked and it was 5 points, and we had 8 teams with an advantage over us in reaching the playoffs. It was still a ridiculous sacking!

Fair comments though!

[redkev]

2 hours ago, BCFC31 said:

I found hog just as boring and liam manning !! Couldn't sit through the whole interview very mono tone not much emotion or charisma atall not for me !

I couldn’t give 2 hoots about monotone emotion or charisma I don’t get this infatuation with some of our fans that we need to have some quality entertaining after dinner speaker as a manager 

good performances 

progression

3 points 

they could wheel out the Dalek off Doctor Who for all I care as long as I see some if not all of the above 

[Sleepy1968]

2 hours ago, Mendip City said:

Yes completely agree and if JL/BT did say something different at interview to what they’d said in public, LM should have spotted the bus he was thrown under and done a runner. He didn’t. 

Once he's under contract he's going nowhere.

And Its clear from his early statements that he'd been given the whole nine yards on 'underperforming', which obs we weren’t.

The only thing that could have conceivably saved him was if he confided in someone he knew who could put him right about the misinformation he was fed before he took the job..

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, redkev said:

I couldn’t give 2 hoots about monotone emotion or charisma I don’t get this infatuation with some of our fans that we need to have some quality entertaining after dinner speaker as a manager 

good performances 

progression

3 points 

they could wheel out the Dalek off Doctor Who for all I care as long as I see some if not all of the above 

So would I, but when you don’t get them, other things come under the microscope.

[mozo]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Not sure if you’re being straight or not.

We have no right to demand, but we absolutely had a right to set an expectation and that it not unreasonable to get 10th.  We were 11th when he took over, injured players returning, Jan window ahead.  The fallacy of “needs his own players” seems forgotten when we win, especially winning well against dare I say it Southampton and Leicester.

So, no, not fantasy fairyland at all.

Now, had our new head-coach approached it differently, why not execute better.  Too much change, too soon.  Didn’t understand what capability he had here.  He certainly hasn’t implemented his philosophy of - high press, attacking football, controlling games through possession, has he?

I can’t believe the excuses made for him.

You referred to the 'reason for sacking him' being top 6, as a reason to expect it, did you not? If so, that's falling into the fairyland trap. If not, I got the wrong end of the stuck, and humbly apologise!

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, mozo said:

You referred to the 'reason for sacking him' being top 6, as a reason to expect it, did you not? If so, that's falling into the fairyland trap. If not, I got the wrong end of the stuck, and humbly apologise!

No, I didn’t.  Based on league position (and they didn’t like him, so would use any excuse) not being “as high” as to make it hard to sack him.  He didn’t need to be 6th.

no need to apologise at all, let alone a humble one!

Edited April 4 by Davefevs

[redkev]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

So would I, but when you don’t get them, other things come under the microscope.

I do see some signs one week but then 2 weeks later we’ve gone backwards again , agree it’s far to inconsistent and also big inconsistency’s , 

could be worse could be a Man Utd fan , oh how the mighty have fallen , they look awful 

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, redkev said:

I do see some signs one week but then 2 weeks later we’ve gone backwards again , agree it’s far to inconsistent and also big inconsistency’s , 

could be worse could be a Man Utd fan , oh how the mighty have fallen , they look awful 

Yep, awful!

[redkev]

1 minute ago, redkev said:

I do see some signs one week but then 2 weeks later we’ve gone backwards again , agree it’s far to inconsistent and also big inconsistency’s , 

could be worse could be a Man Utd fan , oh how the mighty have fallen , they look awful 

Well 2-2 now ffs football 

[transfer reader]

27 minutes ago, Dastardly and Muttley said:

I meant improvement on where we were when NP left us - 4 points off the playoffs.

We won’t end up 4 points away.

Well, no. But that doesn't actually mean we regressed.

Crazy thing, but the league table is tighter with less games played, at the start of August we were 0 points off top!

NP was sacked after what, 14 games?

So we dropped 4 points off 6th in 14 games, that's 0.28/0.29 (rounded) per game.*

After 46 games that rate would see us 13.1 points behind.*

So if we're more than 13-14 points off 6th at the end of the season* (and we could well be) you might have an argument to make about that. But even just doing it in a bare bones look like that is fairly simplistic, just far more honest and accurate than the "we were 4 points off, we won't be when the season ends" you presented.

*Adjust for however many games NP had if it wasn't 14 and then the ratio from the new number.

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

We should. Ideally we’d be sat here with 6 games to go still think there’s a chance, if the stars aligned, etc

But, playoffs as @mozo was a “stretch-target” at the point LM took over.

Had Nige been backed in August, who knows…would’ve given us a better chance I’m sure, but even then I think it would’ve been a push.

It is important LM uses these 6 matches to build momentum for the summer recruitment /  next season.  Selfishly I’d like him to remove my “doubts” too, but I’m not his concern.

Two wins, whatever we think, have given him a little up-tick, it’s up to him to use that now.

That was my expectations pre season Dave. To be in with a shout come April. I thought we had/have a good enough squad for that. 

I'm not sure why I'm expected to change those expectations/targets because Manning came in. Still the same squad. I could be petty and be holding him go account on the publicly given expectations but I think its only fair to hold him to the same expectations I would have held Pearson to. 

We have dropped so many points in games where we have the quality/ability to have got more. 

Im not sure anyone can sit here and say with a straight face that Manning has got the maximum out of this squad. 

What those two wins have done is encouraged many to come crawling out of the woodwork 

1 hour ago, RED4LIFE said:

Strong language? Not in my opinion and trying to be helpful wasn't the point of my post.

The point I wa trying, unsuccessfully as is happens, to make was your pre-season expectations mean nothing to anybody at the club. They are based only on your opinion or hopes for how things should pan out. They are literally pointless without all the facts to hand. 

You are more than welcome to have any opinion you want but it means nothing. That isn't a slur on you personally either as everyone can have their own opinions. Not everyone can have their own facts though and you are basing your points on your thoughts alone with no basis around them. Essentially a straw man's argument. 

We may as well all pack up and go home and not bother supporting any football teams as none of us will ever have all the facts. 

It is my opinion that we have the ability to have done better than we have done. 

 

[Superjack]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Prolonging the inevitable might’ve meant we got on a roll?

Which is exactly what they couldn't risk happening.

[transfer reader]

29 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

When NP left we were 5 off, when the change itself was made ie post the Fleming game it was 4.

We are currently 11 so people can draw their own conclusions really.

Based on the trajectory of November we are a win light.

This makes no sense to anyone with even a basic idea of how numbers work.

 

5 points off after 14?

At that rate of dropping points to 6th position, you would expect us to be 14-15 points behind after 40 games.

So we're actually up if you want to look at it that way. 

[Silvio Dante]

25 minutes ago, Sleepy1968 said:

Once he's under contract he's going nowhere.

And Its clear from his early statements that he'd been given the whole nine yards on 'underperforming', which obs we weren’t.

The only thing that could have conceivably saved him was if he confided in someone he knew who could put him right about the misinformation he was fed before he took the job..

Taps the “Due Diligence works both ways” sign…

[W-S-M Seagull]

37 minutes ago, mozo said:

League position or points off playoffs, which is a better standard? Subjective I guess.

Points off play offs is the only way to measure it by for me. 

We ended last season 10 points off. 

We'd need to finish less than 10 for me to say there has been an improvement. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, transfer reader said:

This makes no sense to anyone with even a basic idea of how numbers work.

 

5 points off after 14?

At that rate of dropping points to 6th position, you would expect us to be 14-15 points behind after 40 games.

So we're actually up if you want to look at it that way. 

Like I say draw your own conclusions.  5/14 and 4/15..on the latter extrapolated we have perhaps maintained the level.

10.66667 pts off had the gap been consistent.

We would have 3 more points has we maintained 1.4 PPG, 40%.

[transfer reader]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Like I say draw your own conclusions.  5/14 and 4/15..on the latter extrapolated we have perhaps maintained the level.

10.66667 pts off had the gap been consistent.

We would have 3 more points has we maintained 1.4 PPG, 40%.

Why do you keep crediting NP with the CF game?

The first mention of this was with regard to when NP left, but you keep shoehorning in the CF game.

You've been called out on this with other stats too.

Yes, our PPG is a bit down, don't you keep harping about how the Ipswich one is down from their early start, how many points are they down?

You keep changing to whatever is most convenient to you at the time, whereas my post was correcting a very flawed bit of logic and maths and nothing more.

[Sleepy1968]

1 minute ago, Silvio Dante said:

Taps the “Due Diligence works both ways” sign…

Agreed.

At times like that you probably need a scrupulous experienced agent looking out for you.

I guess that personal ambition could get in the way of accepting sound professional advice anyway.

[Mr Popodopolous]

6 minutes ago, transfer reader said:

Why do you keep crediting NP with the CF game?

The first mention of this was with regard to when NP left, but you keep shoehorning in the CF game.

You've been called out on this with other stats too.

Yes, our PPG is a bit down, don't you keep harping about how the Ipswich one is down from their early start, how many points are they down?

You keep changing to whatever is most convenient to you at the time, whereas my post was correcting a very flawed bit of logic and maths and nothing more.

The starting point, the premise was Manning inherited a position of...

15 Games

6 Wins

21 Pts

4 points from Playoffs

11th

A base. A starting point.

[Silvio Dante]

6 minutes ago, Sleepy1968 said:

Agreed.

At times like that you probably need a scrupulous experienced agent looking out for you.

I guess that personal ambition could get in the way of accepting sound professional advice anyway.

Yeah I’ve said a few times that I don’t go with the theory that Liam is some kind of malleable individual and my logic behind that is that I think he’s ruthlessly ambitious and he’ll do what’s best for Liam Manning. If what’s best for Bristol City ties in with that all good but it’s him first. You can see it a bit in his demeanour but more pertinently in the way he left Oxford in the lurch.

Nothing overly wrong with that - he’s got self belief - but I also think he probably overestimated his abilities and that’s one of the reasons for his underperformance.

[transfer reader]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The starting point, the premise was Manning inherited a position of...

15 Games

6 Wins

21 Pts

4 points from Playoffs

11th

A base. A starting point.

What I responded to was someone saying we were 4 points off the playoffs when NP was sacked (it was 5, but I think that was a genuine mistake, so not holding it against the poster), with the insinuation that anything more than 4 points off at the end of the season would represent us getting worse.

 

That's just not how maths works when you increase the data set.

[Superjack]

1 hour ago, redsquirrel said:

they love it tho dont they, not that long ago,we were going to be in europe by now, we havent even got to dover yet

Give it a few years....

[Red Billy]

The same team for two consecutive games, purposeful substitutions at half time and now Chris Hogg doing a presser. I’m sorry but this has come too late for me! We are finally turning the corner but ive gone past the point of no return and promised the wife I wouldn’t renew my season ticket next year!

[exAtyeoMax]

4 minutes ago, Superjack said:

Give it a few years....

#Gillingham