James and Williams

[And Its Smith]

Fans suffer from recency bias as well.  There was a time recently where Williams played two good games in a row and there were numerous calls to sign him up. That was a while ago so now it’s let’s sign James. But if James had had two bad games in a row recently it would be let him go. We are all biased to recent events. Hopefully the club look at it over a longer term 

[And Its Smith]

1 hour ago, And Its Smith said:

Fans suffer from recency bias as well.  There was a time recently where Williams played two good games in a row and there were numerous calls to sign him up. That was a while ago so now it’s let’s sign James. But if James had had two bad games in a row recently it would be let him go. We are all biased to recent events. Hopefully the club look at it over a longer term 

@GrahamC you are confused at this but 6 weeks ago you didn’t mind who we kept out of Williams and James. Now you only want to keep Williams if we don’t keep James.  Recency bias 

[38MC]

I’d be much more concerned about losing James than I would Williams. I rate them both, I don’t believe Williams is crocked, and I appreciate he’s coming in to his prime, I just think our squad is better off and on the pitch with James right now if we only had the choice of the two. 
 

edit: that said I’m surprised we’d even have a choice. In either of their shoes I’d go as a free agent and get a nice signing on fee. 

Edited April 4 by 38MC

[Street red]

5 hours ago, Simon bristol said:

It seems bird is much more of a james type player, so it would seem possible that he will be moved on…. It would seem likely that james is one of the higher earners too, and is obviously in his 30s now, its a big spot in the squad to fill, and bird has to be up to it, which they presumably think he is.

ive never been a great fan of williams, not great technically, little goal threat, and is in there to provide the aggression. He obviously had a good month or 2 but is back on the bench now. Injuries have blighted him, and is probably a top earner too, i wouldnt be upset if he was moved on.

presumably king is as good as gone.

The worrying part is bird "quote me if I'm wrong" has had two injuries this season let's hope it doesn't continue in the next.

[grifty]

3 hours ago, mozo said:

So a guaranteed mystery injury to keep Bird out of the first half of the season...

Don't forget all the posters who has said Bird wants to backtrack out of the deal and the deal is going to be cancelled.

[GrahamC]

8 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

@GrahamC you are confused at this but 6 weeks ago you didn’t mind who we kept out of Williams and James. Now you only want to keep Williams if we don’t keep James.  Recency bias 

If we could afford his wages I’d always have kept James, that’s nonsense.

Edited April 5 by GrahamC

[GrahamC]

7 hours ago, grifty said:

Don't forget all the posters who has said Bird wants to backtrack out of the deal and the deal is going to be cancelled.

Are they the same ones saying James had an appearance clause in his contract so wasn’t really injured & wouldn’t play for us again this season?

Edited April 5 by GrahamC

[Talk Of The Town]

12 hours ago, spudski said:

It's the experience and knowledge James and King bring that worries me the most about losing. 

Saying we have the likes of Vyner as a senior at this level to give ' experience ' is a massive mistake imo

I concur.

The value of having leaders in the dressing room is an important one.

[bexhill reds]

I think in a recent press conference James mentioned he was doing his coaching badges. If the new coaching set up is as good as the players say it is then you can see him hanging around to benefit from their ideas rather than a final 2 year payday somewhere else.

Personally I’d want him around, we are a better team when he’s starting. One of those quietly effective midfielders.

[And Its Smith]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

If we could afford his wages I’d always have kept James, that’s nonsense.

Just showing fans have recency bias

[Robbored]

2 minutes ago, bexhill reds said:

I think in a recent press conference James mentioned he was doing his coaching badges. If the new coaching set up is as good as the players say it is then you can see him hanging around to benefit from their ideas rather than a final 2 year payday somewhere else.

Personally I’d want him around, we are a better team when he’s starting. One of those quietly effective midfielders.

James and Wells is are experienced players and guys like him are crucial in any team, even more so when some of the academy graduates are becoming involved in the first team squad. Their knowledge is a tremendous asset to the younger players. For example, Wells has taken Conway under his wing and the two of them have become good mates and personally I’d like to see them both start as a front two - not sure that’ll happen under Manning tho.

I to would like James to stay at City, a possible two year contract would seem doable.

[OneTeamInBristol]

Would be concerned about losing James. Very clear to see we are a worse side when he's not on the pitch. Under appreciated, Marlon Pack like.

Less bothered about Williams. Has that good bit of aggression to his game but poor early injury record and goes missing too often.

[Natchfever]

36 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Just showing fans have recency bias

Not all fans.

Despite some recent performances, I thought Williams could go, King was patently not required, but James should be retained.

What about you, think they should all go?

[And Its Smith]

3 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

Not all fans.

Despite some recent performances, I thought Williams could go, King was patently not required, but James should be retained.

What about you, think they should all go?

Hard to say without knowing how much they are on. If either of them want to be in our top 5-6 paid players then I would move them on. And I wouldn’t give James 2 years. 

[2015]

I would definitely offer James a two year deal. We're a totally different outfit when he isn't playing (and not in a good way).

[Natchfever]

3 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Hard to say without knowing how much they are on. If either of them want to be in our top 5-6 paid players then I would move them on. And I wouldn’t give James 2 years. 

Agreed on 2 years for James unless its one year with a trigger based on performances plus (surely) a wage cut.

 

[ExiledAjax]

It's interesting perhaps that James, King and Williams are all use Wasserman as their agency. They may not be signed in with the exactly the same individual, but there will be a common approach and style of negotiation there.

[GrahamC]

Just now, ExiledAjax said:

It's interesting perhaps that James, King and Williams are all use Wasserman as their agency. They may not be signed in with the exactly the same individual, but there will be a common approach and style of negotiation there.

We went through a spell where most of our signings were with them.

I think the 3 are all at different stages of their careers to be fair.

King is probably at the end, James would see his next contract as his last big one & Williams should consider himself at the peak of his career.

How that pans out in negotiations for anything we offer time will tell.

[ExiledAjax]

Just now, GrahamC said:

We went through a spell where most of our signings were with them.

I think the 3 are all at different stages of their careers to be fair.

King is probably at the end, James would see his next contract as his last big one & Williams should consider himself at the peak of his career.

How that pans out in negotiations for anything we offer time will tell.

Wasserman is a massive agency so I'm not surprised we worked with them often in the past. Transfermarkt reckon they've got about 1,000 players on their books. Some of my colleagues do a lot of work with Wasserman and I'm absolutely not trying to say they are a "bad" or "difficult" agency. 

Agree with your assessment on each of them.

[supercidered]

Has recency bias been mentioned yet? 

 

[RollsRoyce]

I would think that both players are well advanced with their options for next season, and on a free transfer, both will have many suitors in the championship. I do not believe either will be at AG next season.  TGH was an anticipated signing as the replacement for Williams, Bird is the one for James. 

We have be told (lie detector active) we are only adding 2 players to what we already know, a "Twine" player, and a forward (Weimann replacement , maybe 2 if TC leaves) . I guess some form of assessment is needed on Naismith and Atkinson, with both of them missing the season, will it be same again next year. We have been fortunate with the lack of injuries to Vyner and Dickie. 

[Swede]

I would renew both contracts, without question. Both offer so much in experience which is irreplaceable. Losing King is bad enough, losing both of these players as well would be catastrophic. We'd end up forking out a lot of money short term for someone like Luongo or Morsy to try and stabilise us. Sadly, I have a feeling Williams will be off back up North.

[Harvey86]

53 minutes ago, supercidered said:

Has recency bias been mentioned yet? 

 

Not recently

[Gol]

11 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

@GrahamC you are confused at this but 6 weeks ago you didn’t mind who we kept out of Williams and James. Now you only want to keep Williams if we don’t keep James.  Recency bias 

I'm confused as well as its not about recency bias (at least for me)  In an earlier post  on this thread you likened Offering James a 2 year deal to Nhaki's 2 year deal. I was worried about Nhaki's as a large part of his game is about pace. James' game is more about reading the game. I have always thought we look a better team with James in it.  He would also be an experienced head in a relatively young midfield. if we can agree wages I would not object to a 2 year deal

Williams we have seen an improvement each season he has been here (first obviously blighted by ridiculous injury problems) and he is coming into his peak years. adds a bite to our midfield. I would not object to renewing his either.

Hypothetically if Manning wants to keep one and bring in his own midfielder I would probably pick James, though would not be upset if he kept Williams

[TDarwall]

I would think Williams will be up there with Nahki as our highest earner so it really depends on what he wants ££ wise & what he can get elsewhere. I'd like to keep him if we can.

James being that bit older makes it tricky, but losing pace isn't an issue.

For a combo of factors I'd be amazed if we kept both, but think James slightly higher chance.

[GrahamC]

12 minutes ago, TDarwall said:

I would think Williams will be up there with Nahki as our highest earner so it really depends on what he wants ££ wise & what he can get elsewhere. I'd like to keep him if we can.

James being that bit older makes it tricky, but losing pace isn't an issue.

For a combo of factors I'd be amazed if we kept both, but think James slightly higher chance.

Think that’s right, Bird’s signing, plus Manning wanting a number 10, which then sees Knight drop back makes it more likely it is an either/or rather than both.

You’re spot on about wages, anyone not thinking these two will expect top earnings (whatever that is for us) is being incredibly naive.

[brad blit]

Sorry to go on a slight tangent with this convo, but I’m quite interested to see how Benayrous might fit in next year. In last presser Manning seemed surprised at his quality and he could be used a backup no10 or wide player potentially pushing Stokes to a L1 or L2 loan for a year? 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

Think that’s right, Bird’s signing, plus Manning wanting a number 10, which then sees Knight drop back makes it more likely it is an either/or rather than both.

You’re spot on about wages, anyone not thinking these two will expect top earnings (whatever that is for us) is being incredibly naive.

If we ignore the younger players in the first team (Conway, Bell, etc) I would imagine most “senior” players are now within a similar range.  Let’s say £10-15k per week.

Nahki having been a out of range earner is likely to be in range when he signed his extension.

38 minutes ago, brad blit said:

Sorry to go on a slight tangent with this convo, but I’m quite interested to see how Benayrous might fit in next year. In last presser Manning seemed surprised at his quality and he could be used a backup no10 or wide player potentially pushing Stokes to a L1 or L2 loan for a year? 

I’m guilty of forgetting him, so glad you brought him up.  Would be great to see him back next season.

[cidercity1987]

Points per game James starting v not starting can shove recency bias where the sun don't shine

Anyone got the stats?

[ChubStixx]

Do we know that he actually wants to stay? He might get a better offer elsewhere.