Robbored Posted March 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 Everything you have said so far suggests he has fallen short of your expectations which is purely a subjective thing and if you seriously expected play-offs when he came in then I'd say it was your expectation level and not his performance that has led to your belief that it has not been good enough.The question I wanted you to answer is simply do you think we are better off now than when he joined? So as you are in the mood for answering.... According to you my answers are mostly subjective - so the answer to your question is that yes City are better off now but had Johnson gone about things with more subtlety back in the autumn things could have been far better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobby Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 I wouldn't be half as surprised as you and many others for the following reasons:-1) Stewart does not have to go anywhere and unless a club comes in with a silly offer I would be surprised if he would uproot for the last couple of years of his playing career.2) City have a good track record in putting older players through coaching courses which would surely be a natural progression for Stewart.3) If Stewart does the business at Preston and also in pre-season for us I don't think Johnson would be so silly to let a previous argument affect his chances of getting some goals next season.4) In my opinion, one of the reasons Johnson let Stewart go is so that he can get the first team football he needs whilst we can give Benyon and Williams some experience before the end of the season without putting Stewart's nose out of joint.By all accounts and from the info I have, Johnson was ready to let Marcus go in Jan but was blocked by our Chairman - I think that tells us all we need to know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ron Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 By all accounts and from the info I have, Johnson was ready to let Marcus go in Jan but was blocked by our Chairman - I think that tells us all we need to know!And you don't think the fact that days after the end of the window Lansdown was quoted as saying "Stewart has let himself down at Bristol City" might quash this rumour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted March 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 And you don't think the fact that days after the end of the window Lansdown was quoted as saying "Stewart has let himself down at Bristol City" might quash this rumour? Trust what Bobby says Ron.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ron Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 Trust what Bobby says Ron....I think the fact that this thread is mostly based on hearsay is a great reason why I don't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SE23Red Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 According to you my answers are mostly subjectiveThis is the first time I've said such a thing. Wrong, unreasonable and unbalanced have probably been more prominent so the answer to your question is that yes City are better off now but had Johnson gone about things with more subtlety back in the autumn things could have been far better.The acknowledgement that we have improved was what I was after. Just wanted to know that you can see it and confirm my suspicions that you continue to be openly critical of a manager who you know has improved things in contrast to your unstinting loyalty and patience with a manager who took over a team in the playoffs and left them in the relegation zone.I can only assume that you are on a cunning mission to make Steve Lansdown's judgement of managers look good by comparison to yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobby Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 And you don't think the fact that days after the end of the window Lansdown was quoted as saying "Stewart has let himself down at Bristol City" might quash this rumour?it's not a rumour! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ron Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 it's not a rumour!Any proof? No. = Rumour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colemanballs Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 it's not a rumour!You don't need to have your obvious inside information to know that it is certainly true. To be honest, anyone who doubted it after Johnson chose a strike force of Savage and Andrew ahead of Stewart simply has their head in the sand.Whilst Johnson clearly has improved the way the team has been playing the fact that he seems unable or unwilling to manage one of the better players at the club is one reason why I'm why I'm reserving my judgment on his managerial capabilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozo Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 You don't need to have your obvious inside information to know that it is certainly true. To be honest, anyone who doubted it after Johnson chose a strike force of Savage and Andrew ahead of Stewart simply has their head in the sand.Whilst Johnson clearly has improved the way the team has been playing the fact that he seems unable or unwilling to manage one of the better players at the club is one reason why I'm why I'm reserving my judgment on his managerial capabilities.If that were true, it would reflect worse on Steve Lansdown. Why should he take a dictatorial approach?Judging by the comments by Lansdown criticising Stewart's contribution, coupled with Gary Johnson's defence of Lansdown, I see no reason why I should be suspicious. The fact that we have no knowledge of which of GJ and MS has behaved worse than the other (unless someone here has been on the training ground/behind the scenes for lengthy spells) is a reason to ignore rumour and scandalising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC_Dan Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 By all accounts and from the info I have, Johnson was ready to let Marcus go in Jan but was blocked by our Chairman - I think that tells us all we need to know!It can't have been a good deal for the club then. I can't imagine SL would stand in the way of getting rid of a large and unwanted drain on the club's resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colemanballs Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 If that were true, it would reflect worse on Steve Lansdown. Why should he take a dictatorial approach?Judging by the comments by Lansdown criticising Stewart's contribution, coupled with Gary Johnson's defence of Lansdown, I see no reason why I should be suspicious. The fact that we have no knowledge of which of GJ and MS has behaved worse than the other (unless someone here has been on the training ground/behind the scenes for lengthy spells) is a reason to ignore rumour and scandalising.OK, the Lansdowne blocking the deal part may well be rumour but I have no doubt in my mind that Johnson has been trying to get rid of Stewart for some time and not for footballing reasons. No matter what Stewart said in the heat of the moment in response to Johnson's ill-advised 'hand grenade' Johnson has managed the situation poorly in my view and is one reason why I am still sceptical that he is as good a manager as some people on this forum clearly believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted March 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 OK, the Lansdowne blocking the deal part may well be rumour but I have no doubt in my mind that Johnson has been trying to get rid of Stewart for some time and not for footballing reasons. No matter what Stewart said in the heat of the moment in response to Johnson's ill-advised 'hand grenade' Johnson has managed the situation poorly in my view and is one reason why I am still sceptical that he is as good a manager as some people on this forum clearly believe. Spot on - Getting rid of Stewart during the January window would have caused a tremendous backlash from the fans.And yeh - Johnson has handled the Stewart situation badly and his spin on the mainsite confirms that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robins72 Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 I havent read every post on this thread but I don't see that anyone has mentioned that we didnt have a settled back four for the first few months of the season due to injuries. We had several players out injured early part of the season and this didnt help under the Tinnion reign or the start of the Johnson reign. A settled back four has seen us a much more solid unit and has helped our keeper alot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozo Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 And yeh - Johnson has handled the Stewart situation badly and his spin on the mainsite confirms that.What should he say, by the way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted March 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 What should he say, by the way? Tell it as it is.Straight talk in other words.I would respect Johnson for that.Forget the see-through spin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozo Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 Tell it as it is.Straight talk in other words.I would respect Johnson for that.Forget the see-through spin.Since i don't know that it is any different to how he decribes it. Nor has Stewart said anything to suggest somethings up (the 'a manager who wants me comment doesn't strike me as compelling evidence for anything). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan_is_a_legend Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 i cant believe this topic is still going on!!!stewart has gone now, end of! don't matter how it happened or why!people have dis-agreed about stewart since he signed for us and people are now just going round in circles!!!johnson has got over it, stewart has got over, why the hell cant we???no doubt when he returns from his loan spell there is be a hugh debate about wheather or not he done enough at PNE to get a place in our team, so for now lets just leave it!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozo Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 i cant believe this topic is still going on!!!stewart has gone now, end of! don't matter how it happened or why!people have dis-agreed about stewart since he signed for us and people are now just going round in circles!!!johnson has got over it, stewart has got over, why the hell cant we???no doubt when he returns from his loan spell there is be a hugh debate about wheather or not he done enough at PNE to get a place in our team, so for now lets just leave it!!!I really do want to understand Robbored's view. I just want to see how he feels about what I see as contentious issue relating to his argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redtilldead Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 OK, the Lansdowne blocking the deal part may well be rumour but I have no doubt in my mind that Johnson has been trying to get rid of Stewart for some time and not for footballing reasons. No matter what Stewart said in the heat of the moment in response to Johnson's ill-advised 'hand grenade' Johnson has managed the situation poorly in my view and is one reason why I am still sceptical that he is as good a manager as some people on this forum clearly believe.Totally agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 Just like the "softly-softly" approach that has Birmingham sitting top of the Premiership Softly softly approach? Don't make me laugh, if you think what Steve Bruce says in front of the cameras is anything like what he says in the dressing room you're very naive.Bruce learned from Ferguson to always, always back his players in public, no matter what he says to them in private. Birmingham players would tell you a very different story to softly softly.And anyway, I think them being rooted to the foot of the premiership has more to do with them having 9 first team players missing through injury from a squad that wasn't good enough in the first place.Nibor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozo Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 Bruce learned from Ferguson to always, always back his players in public, no matter what he says to them in private. But Robbored was arguing that he wanted transparency! Is Fergie's 'spin' okay but Johnson's not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Ian M Posted March 24, 2006 Admin Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 So you don't agree that 5 or 6 points from a possible 15 could have been possible?I agree whole heartedly about Orr and Woodman.They have improved tremendously but surely its conjecture to give the credit to Johnson.We don't know whether they would have improved just as much under any manager..... So in short, you want to criticise Johnson for the bad things that have happened during his tenure but ignore the good things (claiming these could have been achieved anyway).Riiiiiight, that sounds fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted March 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 But Robbored was arguing that he wanted transparency! Is Fergie's 'spin' okay but Johnson's not? Ferguson has never treated a high profile player at ManUtd in the way Johnson has treated Stewart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Harry Dolman Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 As Johnson hates Stewart so much why did he recall him for the Bradford game ?? Then retain him for the Hudders game ??? He only lost his place through suspension & then failed to get back into a winning side (a common phonomena in football). Despite hating him, Johnson then brought him back for the S****horpe game - why ???? Oh I get it, Johnsons so devious he is a bit subtle to, giving Marcus a snifter of a chance here & there to make the "spin" look better.You know what I reckon Johnson fixed it for Stewart to get booked v Hudders. Then with the criminally devious mind usually associated with a James Bond bad guy he used the power of thought to get Stewart injured v S****horpe. You know what, as I type this very email I just bet Johnson is say in a big leather chair stroking a pure white cat.Oh hang on a mo........ Noble is a Johnson favourite & almost universally acclaimed as a good acquisition. He has been a 1st team regular since his arrival in Nov. He missed the Forest game through sickness, his replacement did well & despite his previous good form Noble can't get in the 1st 11 & won't until the form of Skuse/Russell dips or the suffer injury.As I am a little slow can someone help me, does this mean that Johnson hates Noble too ??? Or does this make him a fair minded manager who picks on form, doesn't like to change a winning side & takes the view that 3 defeats in 18 games is a decent run ??Ferguson has never treated a high profile player at ManUtd in the way Johnson has treated Stewart.Thats plain wrong see Paul McGrath & Norman Whiteside (when he arrived at OT both were idolised) for details.You could suggest Fergies current treatment of Ruud is somewhat unorthodox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colemanballs Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 As Johnson hates Stewart so much why did he recall him for the Bradford game ?? Then retain him for the Hudders game ??? He only lost his place through suspension & then failed to get back into a winning side (a common phonomena in football). Despite hating him, Johnson then brought him back for the S****horpe game - why ???? Oh I get it, Johnsons so devious he is a bit subtle to, giving Marcus a snifter of a chance here & there to make the "spin" look better.He has picked Stewart only at times when to not have done so would have caused an outcry. One of the reservations I have about Johnson is that he seems petrified of being unpopular with the fans. Read his interviews during the 9 game run for further evidence of this.The fact that he has let Stewart go now, in my opinion cannot be justified from a footballing sense. If Brooker were to be injured we would be left with a strikeforce of 'one game in three' McCammon, 'one goal in a lifetime' Savage, an out-of-form Cotterill or unproven youngsters.Oh hang on a mo........ Noble is a Johnson favourite & almost universally acclaimed as a good acquisition. He has been a 1st team regular since his arrival in Nov. He missed the Forest game through sickness, his replacement did well & despite his previous good form Noble can't get in the 1st 11 & won't until the form of Skuse/Russell dips or the suffer injury.As I am a little slow can someone help me, does this mean that Johnson hates Noble too ??? Or does this make him a fair minded manager who picks on form, doesn't like to change a winning side & takes the view that 3 defeats in 18 games is a decent run ??Skuse and Russell have performed well enough that there is a concensus amongst nearly all fans that they should retain their place. Thats plain wrong see Paul McGrath & Norman Whiteside (when he arrived at OT both were idolised) for details.You mean during his unsuccesful early days before he learnt his lesson?You could suggest Fergies current treatment of Ruud is somewhat unorthodox.Ah yes, because of course Savage has been in a similarly rich scoring run that Saha has been in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 But Robbored was arguing that he wanted transparency! Is Fergie's 'spin' okay but Johnson's not?Huh? I don't care much... Ferguson and Johnson can both back their players in public, it's fine by me.I don't like Johnson sending out our second best striker on loan whilst starting our fourth best one, for what do not appear to me to be footballing reasons. Simple as.Nibor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazzas an insult Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 Huh? I don't care much... Ferguson and Johnson can both back their players in public, it's fine by me.I don't like Johnson sending out our second best striker on loan whilst starting our fourth best one, for what do not appear to me to be footballing reasons. Simple as.NiborSmack on r kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SE23Red Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 Tell it as it is.Straight talk in other words.I would respect Johnson for that.Forget the see-through spin.Yes I can see it now, Johnson comes out and says that the situation is personal, Stewart will never be a first team player at Bristol City and that he doesn't earn his wage and you'd be on here singing his praises.Pull the other one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 Yes I can see it now, Johnson comes out and says that the situation is personal, Stewart will never be a first team player at Bristol City and that he doesn't earn his wage and you'd be on here singing his praises.Pull the other one...If Johnson said... "Marcus and I have a personality conflict that we can't resolve" or "I would like to invest the money differently in younger players" followed by "therefore we will look to find him a new club in the summer and wish him all the best." I would have the utmost respect for him, and I believe Robbored when he says the same.Sorry, but some of us feel that his actions * playing Bas up front with Andrew when Brooker was unfit* leaving Stewart off the bench in the last two games despite him being fully fit* not giving Stewart a chance after the defeats we've had but keeping faith with someone who won't scoreand his words * there's no rift* he's in my plans* he's always been on the bench when fitdon't match up very well and he's trying to pull the wool over our eyes. You can disagree, that's fine, but I think you'll find that Stewart doesn't get a chance again this season and GJ does his best to get rid.Nibor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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