Thankyou To The Numskulls In Dolman Block A

[cityboy]

The real racists, with an agenda and a real hatred for non-whites.

Why the automatic assumption that racists are 'white'? The most racist person I have ever had the misfortune to meet was infact from the middle east who seemed to hate everyone equally 'white' or not...

For those of you that seem to think the term 'Paki' is more acceptable than 'Taffy'; you're wrong. The Welsh just don't get the same level of apologetic people on their behalf. It doesn't make it any less wrong though.

And no, I do not think there is no place for chants like this on the terraces, regardless of the racist-or-not intent of the person behind the shouting. 'Political Correctness' as it has become known, can go too far in many areas. This is not one of those areas however.

[cityboy]

So all the sheep shagger chants and stand up if you hate the Welsh is racist?

Put simply; yes.

[Wilse]

I am genuinely surprised that some fellow posters seem to be sympathisers of those involved in any racist chanting. Yes, they may be uneducated, but they were certainly aware of the tone they were using and the effect they were trying to create.

The club needs to identify and permanently exclude these "fans".

[CiderMeUp]

Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill. Any outsider reading this would think were a club full of neo nazi skinheads the way some on here have gone on about it.

If this was a regular occurance then fair enough but to be honest for a City v Cardiff game the atmosphere was pretty reserved.!!

[Alex_BCFC]

Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill. Any outsider reading this would think were a club full of neo nazi skinheads the way some on here have gone on about it.

If this was a regular occurance then fair enough but to be honest for a City v Cardiff game the atmosphere was pretty reserved.!!

Happy with racist chanting at these games then?

[dezgimed]

For what its worth

According to UN International Conventions, "the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, color, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life." [1] This definition does not make any difference between prosecutions based on ethnicity and race, in part because the distinction between the ethnicity and race remains debatable among anthropologists [2] According to British law, racial group means "any group of people who are defined by reference to their race, colour, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origin".

Its not helping.

It shouldnt be for something to define racism, but society as a whole using common sense.

If the above suggests that those who sang 'Eng-er-land' on Sat are racist, its very wrong.

[richwwtk]

I would suggest that not a single Cardiff fan on Saturday would have taken offence at being called either Welsh or a Taff, whilst the other term used in the chant is highly offensive to more or less every person of Asian descent on the planet. It's not aimed as a description of people from Pakistan, when used it is generally a disparaging term used by the ignorant to describe anybody from the India/Bangladesh/Pakistan region and most certainly has no part to play in any general football 'banter'.

People chanting sheepshaggers and the like a pedant might argue that they were being racist, though you really would have to include as part of the everyday banter that goes on between opposing fans in football grounds. God knows we get it thrown at us enough at away grounds.

[greyfriars red]

Don't our fan's realise they are upsetting our own fan's when singing these racist songs?

As Bristol is a multi-national city then surly some of our fan's are going to be a different tone of skin or nationality (even our players), How do you think a fan would react when some lagered up lout start's the racehate song about them when your supporting the same team.

It put's the club in a bad light and put's off fans of football and supporters who want to watch their club.

[CiderMeUp]

Happy with racist chanting at these games then?

Cant see where I said I was happy with racist chanting in my message?????

I personally didnt hear it as was sat elsewhere in the ground but my brother is a Dolam A block season ticket holder & said he didnt hear it so all this fuss does seem a bit OTT.

[Alex_BCFC]

Cant see where I said I was happy with racist chanting in my message?????

I personally didnt hear it as was sat elsewhere in the ground but my brother is a Dolam A block season ticket holder & said he didnt hear it so all this fuss does seem a bit OTT.

I didn't hear it either but from the way you were talking (or writing) it seemed like you were condoning these things to happen at games like this. This 'fuss' is pretty serious IMO if true, and to just try and play it down like you seem to want to, would be to ignore the issue surely?

[Sir Colby-Tit]

I didn't actually hear the chant on Saturday, but if I had I would have been cringing. "Paki" is a horrible term to use. Anyone

old enough to remember the skinhead racists of the late seventies/early eighties will remember it being daubed on walls and

that it was a real term of hatred. I only have one Pakistani friend and I know he hates it and finds it deeply offensive. It is a term that should never be heard at AG or anywhere else.

Taking the piss out of the Welsh on the other hand should be compulsory for Bristolian football fans & I'm pretty sure the Welsh

wouldn't have it any other way. They are as guilty as we are and it makes for a great rivalry. This comes within the realm of

football banter and shouldn't have the race card bought into it.

[barry_mack]

Maybe someone can draw up a list of what is acceptable and what isn't because I'm getting confused.

So Argie is alright?

taffy is alright?

paki is a no no?

pakistani?

welshie?

jock?

paddy?

yank?

gashead?

sh*thead?

Surely you have the common sense to know what connotates abuse and what doesn't? Calling someone a sillysausage and calling someone a ###### connotates different levels of abuse. If you are unaware of differing connotations then you clearly lack the social skills most people take for granted and presumeably live in a cave.

I think it's interesting that people are quick to judge and dish out their own prejudiced insults, yet don't think to question why events like this are happening. There is currently a wave of facism spreading through europe. Our own country and government are no sherkers here, they contribute to the inherant racism we see everyday. Look throughout the tabloids on any day and you'll see countless peices of inherant racism. Look at recent government policies - 'terrorists' (i.e. brown people) can be detained for 90 days without conviction, constant fear mongering against muslims, waging wars against primarily muslim countries over a global tussle for control of oil, the list really does go on.

So is it any wonder that football (the conventional working mans game) has elements of racism (the conventional working mans vehicle to express hatred and repressed anger) in it? I think it's sadly inevitable and thusly compiles a section of the footballing paradox as it strives to shed it's working class demeanour to become a more family based middle classed commodity.

People act in ways that they are taught. People are taught to be racist from an early age and have been for many generations. Sadly this is the way that England is. I know, I'm a lawyer.

[Economou]

There is no comparison racism-wise between what goes on these days at the gate and what was happening 20 years ago, when players were verbally abused because of the colour of their skin, including some of our own, eg Keith Curle.

[MarcusX]

Come on, are you really trying to convince anyone that you are so ignorant that you don't know the meaning of the song to be "I'd rather be <something the singer of the song considers to be derogatory> than a taff"?

That very definition means any word descriptive of someone's race used in this song would be racist.

I've heard it sang using the world "Gashead" before as well. Do you think the singers were claiming it was a good thing to be a Gashead?

Since when has pakistani been a race?

I got half way through the thread and got bored, has anyone actually contacted the club and reported it? If not you are just as bad....

[MarcusX]

I'm grateful to the moderators and those involved with the forum for resurrecting this thread, I am a firm believer that if you give some people enough rope, they will eventually hang themselves and its useful to know who all the apologists for racists are.

On the specific point above, something which apologists for racism consistently fail to understand is that it's not about the meaning of the word, words ARE harmless, but it is the history associated with the word which makes them no longer acceptable to use.

The 'N' word is bound up in years of slavery, violence and inhumanity, followed by racism and apartheid. It's right that black people do not tolerate anyone else using that word any longer, to use it is to condone the suffering which their race suffered.

The 'P' word has been used by racists for decades, daubed on the side of buildings, shouted at families when firebombs were flying through shop windows. It is also right that Asian people do not tolerate any white person using that word any longer.

Both words mentioned above are typical of racist attacks. People have been kicked to death with those words being the last thing they hear. To think that it is simply being 'PC' to not want those words used in any form at Ashton Gate is ridiculous.

And anyone who doesn't understand the underlying meaning and power associated with use of such words by white people, really isn't responsible or intelligent enough to be joining in with chanting. Most of you wouldn't sing the same song about black people.

Anyway, as I said at the time, I am not upset, in the over-sensitive 'keyboard-warrior' way some idiots have laughably claimed is the case. I am angry. I am angry because I believe anyone chanting in this way is effectively sticking two fingers up at some of us.

I will try and make this comparison as simple as possible by saying that to me, this is no different to being cut up on the road. It is the feeling of anger that other people have so little consideration they feel they can do as they please and to hell with the rest of us.

In specific terms - I look around Ashton Gate and don't see a lot of Asian people, certainly not in keeping with other places in Bristol. In the nineties I brought several Asian mates to quite a few games. I brought my dad also a couple of times, who is 100% Asian.

In view of what I heard several times a few seasons ago, and then again on Saturday, I would be embarrassed and ashamed to take any of these people to Ashton Gate and then hear 20 or 30 white men singing the P word. I certainly would never bring my old man.

It's ridiculous because 99% of City fans are the best bunch you could hope to meet in the world, but because of 20-30 morons it isn't easy or comfortable to impress upon a section of our city that Ashton Gate is somewhere to go and be treated with basic respect.

So, and this is the bloody point, people like me have to put up with listening to crap that would deter our own friends and family from ever coming to City, and which abuses our own race, because some of you believe that thats just what these people always do.

Well b***ocks to it. Some people cut you up in the street. Some people barge into you in a pub. Some people push past you at a bar. I'll bet it irritates every single one of you. The lack of respect and consideration insults you. This is no different whatsoever.

There is nothing PC about this. There is nothing liberal about this. It is plain RESPECT for fellow supporters. If you can't open your mouth and support your team without showing a lack of respect for someone on your own side, then you really are pathetic.

See the bold part.... this is one thing that really annoys me. If the "n" word is so derogatory and "condones their suffering" why the ###### hell do so many black people call each other it??? Why do they use a word so much that causes so much pain?

Do Jews constantly use the word holocaust in every day life and in songs they sing? I ###### doubt it!

[rayer]

"Oh I'd rather be a french frog than a taff !! "

Now you know thats being really silly, who would honestly want to be FRENCH !!!

by the way, you are all white trash !!!!

[Stephen Lewis]

People are taught to be racist from an early age and have been for many generations. Sadly this is the way that England is. I know, I'm a lawyer.

All together now

I would rather be a lawyer than be Welsh

yes I would if I could I really would.

[greenun]

[WessexPest]

Not here in Australia it's not

but I do understand that in England it has that connotation

However England is not the world.

I have to wonder what is it about the English that makes them so afraid of different cultures.

This is all getting a bit too deep now though so lets get back to the Welsh.

And I must warn you my surname is Lewis BAAAA

Hang on a minute!

Nobody else seems to have picked up on this but I'm not letting it pass. By what twisted logic, if indeed you are applying any, can you condemn a group of cretins for racist chanting and then extrapolate that to suggest it is symptomatic of a national trait? It's a ludicrous contradiction!

Disdain for other cultures is not the sole preserve of 'the English' or even a minority in this country. Sadly it's present everywhere, yes even - shock horror - in your beloved Australia. The fact that word is still acceptable out there, for a kick-off, but there is also hostility towards south-east Asian immigration in Oz and the Aboriginal people conitnue to face prejudice.

Here's an example... http://sport.guardian.co.uk/cricket/story/...,878108,00.html

Not sure I agree 100% with what this hack has written because like here, it is an ignorant minority who behave in this manner. But as you are so fond of flinging rocks from the comfort of your Antipodean greenhouse apropos of racism, before getting on your moral high horse, try looking a bit closer to home!

It's the old 'Bloody Germans eh? All Nazi b****** them?' double standards which really gets my goat.

As for those willing to defend the chants allegedly heard at the weekend and their perpetrators - shameful and disgusting.

If racism 'will always be there' it's because there are too many people, as self-evident on this thread, who are ready to excuse it on whatever grounds and others who meet the issue with quiet acceptance.

Apart from being offensive to all right-minded persons, songs like these betray a fantastic lack of intelligence, originality and imagination. It's not hard to be even a little bit original and genuinely witty without descending into the gutter.

[Alex_BCFC]

omg have you all lost the plot

if i say iam going down the p-ki-s 2 get some tinnies am i a raceist no its sort for pakistani duh

and is taff realy racist don't think so as i no a few welsh guys and thjey call each other taff,

after reading all the negitive posts i think some of you are knocking on the crown green bowling door

Oh dear.

[WessexPest]

omg have you all lost the plot

if i say iam going down the p-ki-s 2 get some tinnies am i a raceist no its sort for pakistani duh

and is taff realy racist don't think so as i no a few welsh guys and thjey call each other taff,

after reading all the negitive posts i think some of you are knocking on the crown green bowling door

I can only assume, 'bsred', that the '14' of your username was your last score on an IQ test.

[bucksred]

Some people on this board are so ###### preachy its unbelievable

So not one of you sang "England" or "Sheep Shaggers" yesterday i bet none of you said anything to anyone around you thought you'd wait till you got home and moan about it on OTIB

What next banning swear words because it might offend some people?

And what would you do if racially abused by some other race, come on here saying its all banter?????? I don't fkn think so.

[daisybcfc]

omg have you all lost the plot

if i say iam going down the p-ki-s 2 get some tinnies am i a raceist no its sort for pakistani duh

and is taff realy racist don't think so as i no a few welsh guys and thjey call each other taff,

after reading all the negitive posts i think some of you are knocking on the crown green bowling door

i give up with some of you.

also can you type a little more coherently, instead of writing your 14 old pals a text message, doesn't help you getting your (however stupid) view across.

[bucksred]

It happens nothing you, me or your keyboard can do about it,

Yeah? as it happens, I was racially abused by a neanderthal who had just sung that song, and the "No surrender" to the IRA song, thankfully not a Bristolian. wonderful. If your the person copping for it. Brave lads all in a group gobbing off. Yeah. Right.

Turn your back, and its suddenly acceptable for the more err "impressionable youths.

It aint what English people are like, its sure not big or fkn clever.

[The Bounty Hunter]

They always appear louder in a group. When they are on there own they appear shy

[Dollymarie]

why ive a opionion and thats it like it or lump it and for your inormation i no my speling isnt very good as iam slighty Dislexic

Is this the part where I say "oh but its only banter so get over it?"

[bucksred]

why ive a opionion and thats it like it or lump it and for your inormation i no my speling isnt very good as iam slighty Dislexic

Fair enough, what would YOU do, if someone you know was dyslexic was getting abused, and I ve seen that happen too, with this kind of neanderthal?

One word used to describe this bloke was spacker. I write that word, very reluctantly, cos its in fkn bad taste, but it was the word used. Bad Taste, as much so as the chant used.

These morons pick on anything their primitive brain cell registers is different to them. real racists use and abuse clowns like them.

[Portishead Red]

How many of you were "offended" when Cardiff started singing that England is full of shi*?" and calling us "English cu*ts"?

Is that not rasicst? Should we complain to the police, prime minster anybody else who will listen?

This thread is going to far and off the original topic.....

[greenun]

omg have you all lost the plot

if i say iam going down the p-ki-s 2 get some tinnies am i a raceist no its sort for pakistani duh

and is taff realy racist don't think so as i no a few welsh guys and thjey call each other taff,

after reading all the negitive posts i think some of you are knocking on the crown green bowling door

Well, at least we're not dragging our knuckles along the floor like some. Like I said before, ignorance is bliss and the real racists with an agenda are laughing at you. Laughing and pissing themselves silly at your rank stupidity. What's it like being a racist's tool?

[bucksred]

yea no what your say but the row could go on for eva and a day blacl,colouered etc now all iam saying is i realy don't think that the chant is that racist ok it a bit naughty but you lot want the catn nine tails out but thats just my opinion ne way its only abit ao banter

The chant may be a bit of banter, exactly that to most. I doubt, more than a couple of hundred people would sing it, as 90% of people know its not clever.

The neanderthals take it seriously though. they keep singing it, and before long they're abusing said people and anyone else they perceive to be different/weaker to what they are. Paki is clearly seen as a racist term, and calling anyone that is likely to lead to trouble.

I'm not pc, in the slightest, but I draw the line at the word Paki, its way way too far out of line to use that term