Thankyou To The Numskulls In Dolman Block A

[dezgimed]

The problem here is that people are too quick to brand others as racist.

Singing racist songs at football doesnt make a person racist. Going around beating up blacks chanting white power does.

Take jokes for example, I have told racist jokes before. Because I'm racist? No, because they are funny. Why are they funny? Because they're based on stereotypes.

Its no different to telling jokes about old people, fat people, ginger people etc. Its not because they're prejudice and hate them, its because its funny. Its humour. Theres nothing deeper than that.

Would I tell a racist joke to the race I was offending? No, because its likely to hurt their feelings.

Thats the real difference here.

I bet if all you people calling people racists were down a pub with your mates and one of them said in coversation ''Id rather be a....'' you'd probably have a giggle and think nothing of it.

My point? Is it racist to chant that song, no. Is it stupid to flaunt it where it could offend people? Yes.

Awaiting people to call me a racist.

[Nibor]

OK well i'm really upset that the welsh people were singing anti-english songs, why should i be insulted by them? i only went to watch a football match.

Lying about something doesn't make for a great argument really, it just makes you someone who's incapable of making a logical point.

[greenun]

Oh, and while I'm at it.....Dolly, you said that these "people should get out of our club". Just who do you think you are exactly?

Someone with human decency, respect and common sense, which is the polar opposite of you and the minority of posters on this thread who are apologists for racism.

Oh, and while I'm at it.....she's 100% correct.

[Nibor]

The problem here is that people are too quick to brand others as racist.

Singing racist songs at football doesnt make a person racist. Going around beating up blacks chanting white power does.

Take jokes for example, I have told racist jokes before. Because I'm racist? No, because they are funny. Why are they funny? Because they're based on stereotypes.

Its no different to telling jokes about old people, fat people, ginger people etc. Its not because they're prejudice and hate them, its because its funny. Its humour. Theres nothing deeper than that.

Would I tell a racist joke to the race I was offending? No, because its likely to hurt their feelings.

Thats the real difference here.

I bet if all you people calling people racists were down a pub with your mates and one of them said in coversation ''Id rather be a....'' you'd probably have a giggle and think nothing of it.

My point? Is it racist to chant that song, no. Is it stupid to flaunt it where it could offend people? Yes.

Awaiting people to call me a racist.

I understand what you're saying but I think there's a big, big difference between jokes about a stereotype and a word that is nothing other than a racial slur.

I agree that the people singing the song are in the main merely ignorant and not intending to deliberately be racist but the fact is they're not telling a joke to their mates down the pub they're singing a song which for all they know could be heard by dozens of people that will be offended by it.

[ooRya]

I'm neither angry about it nor politically correct, in fact I'm about as far from PC as it's possible to get. I suggest you don't understand what it actually means.

It's simply that I don't think it's right to excuse a chant that effectively insults anyone asian just because "it's only banter" or "we've always done it" or "worse things happen at sea". They are ignorant and pathetic attempts at excuses for something that is inexcusable.

It doesn't matter whether they think they're racist. What matters is that they ARE being racist by singing it.

It might be football banter but that doesn't mean it's not racist and is ok. It was once acceptable for people to throw bananas at black players. Now it isn't. Now that song isn't either, simple as that.

Yes it does.

The problem I have Nibor, is that it all depends on your definition of racism. You say they were being racist, I say they weren't.

Now I know that these days it's "the acceptable thing" to agree with your view....but that doesn't mean you are right.

These days people would frown at programmes such as Love Thy Neighbor (yes I am old enough to remember it!), and would call it racist. But was it? Actually, no it wasn't. But do we get repeats on the tv, in an age when we get repeats of just about everything else, no we don't - because the PC brigade wouldn't allow it.

Sadly, people are just all too ready to be seen as PC these days, and will agree with anything that looks remotely like "the right thing to say", and won't bother to take the time to actually examine an argument and come up with their own opinion.

It's all part of the same problem that means we now see Christmas cards with the words "Seasons Greetings" instead of HAPPY CHRISTMAS! Just in case it "might" upset someone. Chuffing ridiculous!

[TinnionForEngland]

Lying about something doesn't make for a great argument really, it just makes you someone who's incapable of making a logical point.

But what do you think about that? what if i had taken a friend who had never been to football before and he had seen the Cardiff fans walking threateningly towards us whilst shouting "Come on then you English ****s", what's a worse experience, that, or a jokey little song with no harm intended.

[dezgimed]

I understand what you're saying but I think there's a big, big difference between jokes about a stereotype and a word that is nothing other than a racial slur.

I agree that the people singing the song are in the main merely ignorant and not intending to deliberately be racist but the fact is they're not telling a joke to their mates down the pub they're singing a song which for all they know could be heard by dozens of people that will be offended by it.

Well I agree, its a stupid thing to do but I don't necessarily think its fair to call them racist.

It was a racist action, but perhaps taken the wrong way and shouldnt have been done in 'public'.

I wouldnt however constitute the words from the chant as a joke, just plain stupid.

[red-or-dead]

I'm think as myself as NOT racist and have never witnessed any abuse shouted near me at Ashton Gate.

This whole thread seems to be going OTT.

Its a shame not everyone's as perfect as Nibor

This is for the Cardiff fans-

:englandflag: :englandflag:

[zookeeper]

OK well i'm really upset that the welsh people were singing anti-english songs, why should i be insulted by them? i only went to watch a football match.

Mainly because there is a lot of parity between the rights of the English and Welsh. I do remember a time when English people's homes were getting vandalised in Wales but it mainly was on a small scale and by and large people weren't abused . However the level of abuse that people of an asian background took working and living in England was a totally different scale.

To forget the history and reasons behind the words shows a level of ignorance. These words have been backed up and used in line with sticks and stones and fire bombs as well in our recent history.

[ooRya]

Someone with human decency, respect and common sense, which is the polar opposite of you and the minority of posters on this thread who are apologists for racism.

Oh, and while I'm at it.....she's 100% correct.

There you go, you've made an opinion of me and the kind of person I am from a few lines in one post. THAT is where racism stems from, people making unfounded assumptions about someone that they know nothing about......not a stupid song at a football match!

[Nibor]

The problem I have Nibor, is that it all depends on your definition of racism. You say they were being racist, I say they weren't.

No, I say that the song they were singing was racist. It most certainly was. I doubt they intended it that way, but that's not what matters.

Now I know that these days it's "the acceptable thing" to agree with your view....but that doesn't mean you are right.

I'll post my view and the reasons for it. If you disagree say so and say why. I prefer that, it's more interesting. I find people are less and less capable of it on this forum as time goes by which is a pity.

These days people would frown at programmes such as Love Thy Neighbor (yes I am old enough to remember it!), and would call it racist. But was it? Actually, no it wasn't. But do we get repeats on the tv, in an age when we get repeats of just about everything else, no we don't - because the PC brigade wouldn't allow it.

I don't remember it. I have seen Til Death do us Part repeats on TV several times including the blood donation one. It shows a racist attitude on the part of Alf Garnett. The act of broadcasting it isn't racist IMO and I see nothing wrong with doing so.

Sadly, people are just all too ready to be seen as PC these days, and will agree with anything that looks remotely like "the right thing to say", and won't bother to take the time to actually examine an argument and come up with their own opinion.

It's got nothing to do with being PC. It's offensive. It's a word that was used to deliberately insult an entire race that was on the receiving end of some pretty nasty discrimination in this country.

It's all part of the same problem that means we now see Christmas cards with the words "Seasons Greetings" instead of HAPPY CHRISTMAS! Just in case it "might" upset someone. Chuffing ridiculous!

The idea that someone would be offended by a card saying Happy Christmas is indeed ridiculous and I've never heard of that happening. Cards saying Season's Greetings have been around since before I was born and I suggest it's just meant to include New Year as well.

[WesM]

You can be sacked for calling someone fat!

Damn right too!

[Nibor]

Well I agree, its a stupid thing to do but I don't necessarily think its fair to call them racist.

The song was racist. The people signing it were probably just being ignorant.

Perhaps instead of getting so upset about the fact that someone might be calling them racist they should just not sing it?

I'm think as myself as NOT racist and have never witnessed any abuse shouted near me at Ashton Gate.

And?

Its a shame not everyone's as perfect as Nibor

Ah so I think that racist chanting is wrong and I don't do it and you read that as me thinking I'm perfect... that's fantastically insightful.

[Mr. Bristol City]

Hi People... I sit in this block of the Dolman Stand and I joined in with this chant..... The raeson being I am Pakistani.

I am called a 'paki' by my freinds as it's something we do as mates, take the piss. Being an ethnic minority you have to learn to deal with differences of another culture, as I have done, and the word 'paki' doesn't offend a single pakistani I know. The same a Aussie doesn't offend Australians and Yank doesn't Americans, it just an ABBREVIATION.

If you called an Indian a 'paki' then he would be offended as it would be like me calling a Canadian an American, it's ignorant. But this song was aimed at the taffs, and by singing I'd rather be a paki than a taffy I laughed and joined in with my white freind, after all I am what I am and if I had to change then I certainly wouldn't go welsh!

So there's my 2 pence.... After all stop giving a shit, it's football... Stop being so PC because if you didn't already know... Nobody is giving a shit... Sorry.

[TinnionForEngland]

Hi People... I sit in this block of the Dolman Stand and I joined in with this chant..... The raeson being I am Pakistani.

I am called a 'paki' by my freinds as it's something we do as mates, take the piss. Being an ethnic minority you have to learn to deal with differences of another culture, as I have done, and the word 'paki' doesn't offend a single pakistani I know. The same a Aussie doesn't offend Australians and Yank doesn't Americans, it just an ABBREVIATION.

If you called an Indian a 'paki' then he would be offended as it would be like me calling a Canadian an American, it's ignorant. But this song was aimed at the taffs, and by singing I'd rather be a paki than a taffy I laughed and joined in with my white freind, after all I am what I am and if I had to change then I certainly wouldn't go welsh!

So there's my 2 pence.... After all stop giving a shit, it's football... Stop being so PC because if you didn't already know... Nobody is giving a shit... Sorry.

That's awesome, fair play.

[red-or-dead]

Sadly, people are just all too ready to be seen as PC these days, and will agree with anything that looks remotely like "the right thing to say", and won't bother to take the time to actually examine an argument and come up with their own opinion.

It's all part of the same problem that means we now see Christmas cards with the words "Seasons Greetings" instead of HAPPY CHRISTMAS! Just in case it "might" upset someone. Chuffing ridiculous!

No more Baa baa Black sheep.

Cant call it a blackboard.

Such things are crazy!

Do i really care there are The mobo awards, No.

I find it hard to accept a boy in the Midlands not being alowed to wear a England Football shirt on Mufti day!!

PC Ballacks!!

[ooRya]

No, I say that the song they were singing was racist. It most certainly was. I doubt they intended it that way, but that's not what matters.

I'll post my view and the reasons for it. If you disagree say so and say why. I prefer that, it's more interesting. I find people are less and less capable of it on this forum as time goes by which is a pity.

I don't remember it. I have seen Til Death do us Part repeats on TV several times including the blood donation one. It shows a racist attitude on the part of Alf Garnett. The act of broadcasting it isn't racist IMO and I see nothing wrong with doing so.

It's got nothing to do with being PC. It's offensive. It's a word that was used to deliberately insult an entire race that was on the receiving end of some pretty nasty discrimination in this country.

The idea that someone would be offended by a card saying Happy Christmas is indeed ridiculous and I've never heard of that happening. Cards saying Season's Greetings have been around since before I was born and I suggest it's just meant to include New Year as well.

Again, what I don't understand Nibor, is why YOU find it so offensive? Why do you feel so driven as to post your thoughts as much as you have within this thread?

Just a thought, but isn't it time that people of Asian origin stopped being so offended by words? And then it wouldn't matter....would it?

[bh_red]

Hi People... I sit in this block of the Dolman Stand and I joined in with this chant..... The raeson being I am Pakistani.

I am called a 'paki' by my freinds as it's something we do as mates, take the piss. Being an ethnic minority you have to learn to deal with differences of another culture, as I have done, and the word 'paki' doesn't offend a single pakistani I know. The same a Aussie doesn't offend Australians and Yank doesn't Americans, it just an ABBREVIATION.

If you called an Indian a 'paki' then he would be offended as it would be like me calling a Canadian an American, it's ignorant. But this song was aimed at the taffs, and by singing I'd rather be a paki than a taffy I laughed and joined in with my white freind, after all I am what I am and if I had to change then I certainly wouldn't go welsh!

So there's my 2 pence.... After all stop giving a shit, it's football... Stop being so PC because if you didn't already know... Nobody is giving a shit... Sorry.

you have a bit of a point there, I went to st george school, and in fairness the biggest people offended by being called Paki was people who were actually indian,

As for the American/Candian, I love calling Candian mates american........it's makes them really angry!

personally speaking, I'm finding this who thread just pathetic now, fact is, it's happened before against cardiff, it will happen again against cardiff and each time it will cause waves on here, but unless people actually report it at the time, there is not much that will happen.

however, as ever too many like the sound of their own voice and must have a view on everything

[ooRya]

Hi People... I sit in this block of the Dolman Stand and I joined in with this chant..... The raeson being I am Pakistani.

I am called a 'paki' by my freinds as it's something we do as mates, take the piss. Being an ethnic minority you have to learn to deal with differences of another culture, as I have done, and the word 'paki' doesn't offend a single pakistani I know. The same a Aussie doesn't offend Australians and Yank doesn't Americans, it just an ABBREVIATION.

If you called an Indian a 'paki' then he would be offended as it would be like me calling a Canadian an American, it's ignorant. But this song was aimed at the taffs, and by singing I'd rather be a paki than a taffy I laughed and joined in with my white freind, after all I am what I am and if I had to change then I certainly wouldn't go welsh!

So there's my 2 pence.... After all stop giving a shit, it's football... Stop being so PC because if you didn't already know... Nobody is giving a shit... Sorry.

Hey Nibor, Dolly and others....if he isn't bothered by it, why are you?

[Nibor]

Again, what I don't understand Nibor, is why YOU find it so offensive? Why do you feel so driven as to post your thoughts as much as you have within this thread?

I'm not offended by it. I just reply to people that reply to me.

I find it a bit embarrassing to hear that sung at Ashton Gate a couple of weeks after the kick racism out of football weekend.

Just a thought, but isn't it time that people of Asian origin stopped being so offended by words? And then it wouldn't matter....would it?

Words are always going to offend people, that's not the problem. I think there's a difference when using the particular words that went hand in hand with racial discrimination.

[Nibor]

Hey Nibor, Dolly and others....if he isn't bothered by it, why are you?

I'm not bothered by it but I am certain that the vast majority of asians would be regardless of one person's feelings on it.

[dezgimed]

I'm not bothered by it but I am certain that the vast majority of asians would be regardless of one person's feelings on it.

Do you know that for sure or do you assume?

Alot of this hysteria evolving from the PC brigade exists precisely as those who arent offended are worried others might or could well be.

Hence the problem we have at the moment.

[greenun]

Hey Nibor, Dolly and others....if he isn't bothered by it, why are you?

Because you can't tell people how to think; they will form their own opinions and their answers speak volumes about how we conduct ourselves in society. What we believe is decent and considering other people views without dismissing them as banter, which is just an excuse to remain ignorant, or politically correct, which is just an excuse to remain ignorant.

That's what is really funny. Attitudes and ignorance.

[Nibor]

Do you know that for sure or do you assume?

Of course I don't know it for sure, I'm hardly in a position to ask everyone.

I know people who have been offended by the term before.

It's a fairly obvious assumption and completely in a different league to all that baa-baa black sheep crap.

[Mr. Bristol City]

I'm not bothered by it but I am certain that the vast majority of asians would be regardless of one person's feelings on it.

But what you have just done is what you're trying to prevent.

You have rounded up the continent of Asia and associating all nationalities under the word 'paki'! Not that I care but it seems rather rich after all you have had to say during this thread.

That song included two sets of people.. Welsh and Pakistani's... NOT ASIANS.

SO before you keep whinging about this topic have you noticed nobody of pakistani background has spoke of thier disgust, believe me it wwasn't even offensive. People were stating they'd rather be pakistani/paki than welsh... and I am pleased to say I agree!

Just leave it before you make it into something bigger than it should be....

[Nibor]

But what you have just done is what you're trying to prevent.

You have rounded up the continent of Asia and associating all nationalities under the word 'paki'! Not that I care but it seems rather rich after all you have had to say during this thread.

When were you born?

The word "Paki" was a slur used towards all southern asians in the 80s and before.

It most certainly wasn't being used to refer to Pakistanis by abbreviation.

Maybe if you never encountered it used like that that would explain why you don't find it offensive.

[boadle]

[Mr. Bristol City]

When were you born?

The word "Paki" was a slur used towards all southern asians in the 80s and before.

It most certainly wasn't being used to refer to Pakistanis by abbreviation.

Maybe if you never encountered it used like that that would explain why you don't find it offensive.

It's offensive to South Asia as we were not best of freinds with India at that time in history, not that we are really that good freinds now but thats niether here nor there, so by calling that regions people paki's you'd be calling Indians Paki's. And obviously those people they were being labelled as were their enemies.... Make any sense?

[ooRya]

I'm not bothered by it but I am certain that the vast majority of asians would be regardless of one person's feelings on it.

Being Asian himself, Mr Bristol City must have Asian family and asian friends, I'm sure he would not have posted or sung as he did if he thought that any of them would be offended.

I accept Nibor that your sentiments are probably well meant, but it does concern me that this whole PC thing is having the exact opposite effect than is intended. Just take the Muslim faith for example, until recently I couldn't of cared less one way or the other about Muslims, Jews, Christians or any other faith....each to their own IMO. But with everything becoming so over-the-top PC nowadays, I sometimes find myself resenting Muslims and blaming their religion and the effect that it has on this Country. I remember a piece in the newspaper about a family who were told by the police to remove some pig ornaments from their window in case it offended. And we see local authorities going to ridiculous lengths not to "offend" the local community. I'm afraid this kind of attitude is causing racism, not preventing it. Just as well intentioned comments from people within this thread will cause more problems than it will solve.

[Nibor]

It's offensive to South Asia as we were not best of freinds with India at that time in history, not that we are really that good freinds now but thats niether here nor there, so by calling that regions people paki's you'd be calling Indians Paki's. And obviously those people they were being labelled as were their enemies.... Make any sense?

I understand what you're saying but the context the word was used in was never to do with political relations between India and Pakistan.

It was just what your average white trash idiot labelled anyone with that colour skin as from the 60s onwards.

It was used in the same vein as the *Racist Term Removed or coon and the people who did so never meant it as an abbreviation. That's where that song originates from mate.

I'd bet if you ask some older family members about that chant they'd find it offensive.