Goodbye and Good luck - Aden Flint gone, official (Merged)

[Lrrr]

7 minutes ago, phantom said:

Based on what @hodge ?

I know a hell of a lot of people that would disagree with that comment

Just memory of the forum at the time, signing him for just over £2m and selling for £12m-£15m a year later given his offside tendency and not being a complete striker I remember the forum thinking we'd done very well to get that much. 

[View from the Dolman]

8 minutes ago, EnderMB said:

Sky are reporting £5m with £2m in addons

Where are Sky reporting this? Their website says the fee is in the region of £7m, no mention of this including speculative add-ons.

[Big C]

I think some perspective is needed here. For a start figures are being mentioned but nobody knows exact details of the deal. However if the figure is somewhere between 5mil and 7mil for a 29 year old centre defender who has never played in The Premier League I think the club have got all they can out of the deal and should be commended. Yes we will miss the big lad, we will miss his goals and will miss his reliability, for someone playing in his position to miss so few games is remarkable. However his main role is to defend and speaking of games he has missed, he has not started 9 game in the last three seasons and in those 9 games we have kept 6 clean sheets. I feel that is a pretty telling stat for a side that is notorious for leaking goals. I admit to some artistic licence as one of the games is last year’s home game against Barnsley in which we conceded after he came on and I counted as a clean sheet. Many would disagree but I believe Baker is a better all-round defender and Wright is a capable Championship defender. I don’t see any problem with starting with these two at the back and that’s before we get in any possible replacement. Players come and go the team always remains!

[RedM]

1 hour ago, Red Grovesy said:

Yep - just like Tomlin :-)

He might as well have a caravan. Where is he going next?

[RedM]

23 minutes ago, phantom said:

Considering we could make as little as £3.5m from this sale, whoever sorted that contract needs to take a look at themselves !!

It makes you wonder how bad his previous release clause was

Or what exactly is in our other player’s contracts

[EnderMB]

21 minutes ago, View from the Dolman said:

Where are Sky reporting this? Their website says the fee is in the region of £7m, no mention of this including speculative add-ons.

Weird, this was on Sky Sports News earlier this morning, although I guess £7m is no different to £5m + £2m.

[View from the Dolman]

1 minute ago, EnderMB said:

Weird, this was on Sky Sports News earlier this morning, although I guess £7m is no different to £5m + £2m.

But to report £5m + £2m speculative add-ons as a fee of £7m would be incredibly sloppy reporting.

If it were £5m + £25m if Boro win the Premier League in 2020, nobody would be reporting it as a fee of £30m. You'd see the usual "£5m rising to a potential £30m" reporting.

[BRISTOL86]

17 minutes ago, Big C said:

I think some perspective is needed here. For a start figures are being mentioned but nobody knows exact details of the deal. However if the figure is somewhere between 5mil and 7mil for a 29 year old centre defender who has never played in The Premier League I think the club have got all they can out of the deal and should be commended. Yes we will miss the big lad, we will miss his goals and will miss his reliability, for someone playing in his position to miss so few games is remarkable. However his main role is to defend and speaking of games he has missed, he has not started 9 game in the last three seasons and in those 9 games we have kept 6 clean sheets. I feel that is a pretty telling stat for a side that is notorious for leaking goals. I admit to some artistic licence as one of the games is last year’s home game against Barnsley in which we conceded after he came on and I counted as a clean sheet. Many would disagree but I believe Baker is a better all-round defender and Wright is a capable Championship defender. I don’t see any problem with starting with these two at the back and that’s before we get in any possible replacement. Players come and go the team always remains!

Well said. The hyperbole about the club following a sustainable financial model is bordering on the ridiculous. 

Would love to see the reaction if we were ever actually required to live within our means. 

[chinapig]

7 minutes ago, RedM said:

Or what exactly is in our other player’s contracts

I'm not sure how common release clauses are in this country compared to the European leagues but as a minimum I imagine we promise our players that we will not stand in their way if an acceptable offer comes in and they want to go.

If you are a club of our size and want to develop or sign players with a view to their value increasing over time you pretty much have to do that I would think.

[Red Army 75]

Flint out Webster in then . What’s Webster like

[BRISTOL86]

1 minute ago, chinapig said:

I'm not sure how common release clauses are in this country compared to the European leagues but as a minimum I imagine we promise our players that we will not stand in their way if an acceptable offer comes in and they want to go.

If you are a club of our size and want to develop or sign players with a view to their value increasing over time you pretty much have to do that I would think.

Absolutely. We have a growing reputation as a club that you can come to, get your head down, do well, and then get a big move. That’s valuable. 

Kodjia, Tammy, Flint, potentially Bryan, Reid, Diedhiou etc....

When your plan for financial sustainability is to buy ‘rough gems ’ and then polish and sell on for profit, that’s a vital part of the puzzle. 

To stand in the way of a player - who clearly wants to move on - when that offer comes in can do a lot of damage to that reputation.

A reputation is difficult to build and incredibly easy to destroy. 

2 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said:

Flint out Webster in then . What’s Webster like

Young, relatively experienced, big scope for increase in value. Fits the mould to a tee I’d say. 

[Super]

5 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said:

Flint out Webster in then . What’s Webster like

[Dingbat]

One bright spot - at least Flint leaving should see the end of that stupid routine where he stands on the half-way line touchline for goal-kicks and Frankie attempts to put it on his head. Did that ever work, btw? I remember it creating a couple of good chances for the other team last season.

[Red Army 75]

Just now, Super said:

Bit old ain’t he . Doesn’t look like good business to me

[Merrick's Marvels]

5 hours ago, Paul Cheesy said:

I actually feel a bit sorry for Aden, he now has to live in Middlesbrough!!!

How many of our players live in the city of Bristol?

Just saying, like.

[chinapig]

2 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Absolutely. We have a growing reputation as a club that you can come to, get your head down, do well, and then get a big move. That’s valuable. 

Kodjia, Tammy, Flint, potentially Bryan, Reid, Diedhiou etc....

When your plan for financial sustainability is to buy ‘rough gems ’ and then polish and sell on for profit, that’s a vital part of the puzzle. 

To stand in the way of a player - who clearly wants to move on - when that offer comes in can do a lot of damage to that reputation.

A reputation is difficult to build and incredibly easy to destroy. 

Young, relatively experienced, big scope for increase in value. Fits the mould to a tee I’d say. 

Indeed, and you don't need anything like a 100% success rate with those rough diamonds to make a significant profit.

I would add O'Dowda to your list as I think he could be the biggest prospect of all.

[Kid in the Riot]

3 hours ago, cidercity1987 said:

Despite the hysteria, the truth in my opinion is a great scoring record, bang average defender and not suited to the way Johnson wants to play.

Do you honestly think a manager that sets his teams up not to concede would sign a 'bang average defender'? Flint's game is not without its faults but 'bang average' at this level? No chance.

[RedM]

10 minutes ago, chinapig said:

I'm not sure how common release clauses are in this country compared to the European leagues but as a minimum I imagine we promise our players that we will not stand in their way if an acceptable offer comes in and they want to go.

If you are a club of our size and want to develop or sign players with a view to their value increasing over time you pretty much have to do that I would think.

I can understand that, still remember being delighted when at last Matt Hill signed his deal only for a release clause be triggered soon after and upset me.

I understand that clubs must promise them all sorts to get them to sign, but it also says if someone else better than us wants you, then we won’t stand in your way. The players can keep their options open. What about selling the belief that we are really going for it, they can achieve with us, it’s almost like telling them they probably won’t, which is true enough.

I guess it sometimes will work for us though, players who we are after will have these clauses, eg Taylor. Swings and roundabouts I guess.

I hope we are close to signing a few quality players now,  love really soon, as we will look less attractive once we have lost a few. ‘Come and play alongside Flint, Bobby Reid will be your strike partner’ oops.

[BRISTOL86]

8 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Indeed, and you don't need anything like a 100% success rate with those rough diamonds to make a significant profit.

I would add O'Dowda to your list as I think he could be the biggest prospect of all.

Yep and Brownhill too. 

I wonder how well anyone thought Flint would do when we bought him? Or Kodjia? Or Reid at striker....etc....no one even wanted Reid here as a midfielder last season let alone relying on him as our main source of goals. 

You’d think after all this time people would stop being so melodramatic about personnel changes. This is football, players come, players go, bigger clubs buy good players from smaller clubs. Circle of life and all that. 

[RedM]

1 minute ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Do you honestly think a manager that sets his teams up not to concede would sign a 'bang average defender'? Flint's game is not without its faults but 'bang average' at this level? No chance.

Exactly. If he is so ‘bang average’ the majority of people wouldn’t be concerned and upset that he is leaving, we could replace him easily right? Why is ‘boro after him, with so many ‘bang average’ out there they could go and get one cheaper and younger. 

[BRISTOL86]

6 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Do you honestly think a manager that sets his teams up not to concede would sign a 'bang average defender'? Flint's game is not without its faults but 'bang average' at this level? No chance.

Agreed that I wouldn’t call him average. But having said that, take any widely accepted measure of defensive contribution and Flint is nowhere near the best in the division. 

If you take the goals away from his game - which are a real crucial part of his appeal to others - and consider him purely as a defender, he’s not the messiah some make him out to be (though he is clearly amongst our best players)  

He fits into a Pulis side like a glove though. 

[Phileas Fogg]

6 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Agreed that I wouldn’t call him average. But having said that, take any widely accepted measure of defensive contribution and Flint is nowhere near the best in the division. 

If you take the goals away from his game - which are a real crucial part of his appeal to others - and consider him purely as a defender, he’s not the messiah some make him out to be (though he is clearly amongst our best players)  

He fits into a Pulis side like a glove though. 

Agree with that. I think the other thing about Flint is his longevity. His game isn't reliant on explosive speed like a striker or winger, so I think he's the type to go on for years more. Gareth McAuley is a good example of this. Flint's game is based really on reading of the game and his aerial prowess - those things don't decline and if anything can improve further, especially the mental attributes. He's barely ever injured that also helps.

I don't rate him as highly as some on here, and I think he comes across as a bit miserable - despite that though he'll definitely be missed and he's given us excellent value for money.

 

[Lrrr]

4 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Agreed that I wouldn’t call him average. But having said that, take any widely accepted measure of defensive contribution and Flint is nowhere near the best in the division. 

If you take the goals away from his game - which are a real crucial part of his appeal to others - and consider him purely as a defender, he’s not the messiah some make him out to be (though he is clearly amongst our best players)  

He fits into a Pulis side like a glove though. 

He's a very naughty boy! 

[RedM]

@BRISTOL86Pulis was after Flint when he was at West Brom, seems he’s finally got his man. 

This could have been going on for months and months, Warnock once went after one of our players (long, long gone) and was phoning him all hours of the day and night, made a real nuisance of himself. He never did get him but his persistence went on for months.

[BRISTOL86]

Just now, RedM said:

@BRISTOL86Pulis was after Flint when he was at West Brom, seems he’s finally got his man. 

This could have been going on for months and months, Warnock once went after one of our players (long, long gone) and was phoning him all hours of the day and night, made a real nuisance of himself. He never did get him but his persistence went on for months.

Yep. As we all know when a players head is gone, it’s curtains. Pulis is the sort who will have played every trick in the book to get in his head and engineer the potential transfer long before it got to an offer. 

Putting aside Flint’s offensive contributions and focusing on his defensive ability, comparisons with Adam Webster - who we are rumoured to be in for as a replacement - are interesting. 

In 17/18 Webster won almost exactly the same number of aerial battles and blocks per game, made double the number of successful tackles per game and double the number of successful interceptions per game. 

Stats only tell you so much of course - and I’ve not seen much of Ipswich - but on paper his defensive contributions are better than Flint's. 

Offensively of course it’s a different story but I hear Sergio Ramos has other commitments. 

[Lrrr]

7 minutes ago, RedM said:

@BRISTOL86Pulis was after Flint when he was at West Brom, seems he’s finally got his man. 

This could have been going on for months and months, Warnock once went after one of our players (long, long gone) and was phoning him all hours of the day and night, made a real nuisance of himself. He never did get him but his persistence went on for months.

Is that not tapping up if we hadn't given permission to speak to the player 

[RedM]

4 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Yep. As we all know when a players head is gone, it’s curtains. Pulis is the sort who will have played every trick in the book to get in his head and engineer the potential transfer long before it got to an offer. 

Putting aside Flint’s offensive contributions and focusing on his defensive ability, comparisons with Adam Webster - who we are rumoured to be in for as a replacement - are interesting. 

In 17/18 Webster won almost exactly the same number of aerial battles and blocks per game, made double the number of successful tackles per game and double the number of successful interceptions per game. 

Stats only tell you so much of course - and I’ve not seen much of Ipswich - but on paper his defensive contributions are better than Flint's. 

Offensively of course it’s a different story but I hear Sergio Ramos has other commitments. 

I would say that it’s unusual for a defender to be getting so many goals, so as you say find a similar defender, to defend and let somebody else chip in with the goals. I loved Flinty to bits, but free kicks and corners did become very predictable and easily stoppable. Vary it a bit and let someone else have a go, fool the opposition perhaps.

[RedM]

4 minutes ago, hodge said:

Is that not tapping up if we hadn't given permission to speak to the player 

I don’t know. I know he wanted to take him on loan and the player refused, then offered to buy him ( for peanuts) in the Jan window, or the other way round. I think they knew eachother from previous clubs or their paths had crossed before, so probably got round the tapping up by saying it was a friendly chat between old friends or something. He was a really nuisance though, wouldn’t take no for an answer.

[BRISTOL86]

4 minutes ago, RedM said:

I would say that it’s unusual for a defender to be getting so many goals, so as you say find a similar defender, to defend and let somebody else chip in with the goals. I loved Flinty to bits, but free kicks and corners did become very predictable and easily stoppable. Vary it a bit and let someone else have a go, fool the opposition perhaps.

Absolutely. We already score a large number of goals, keeping them out has been the problem for 3 ******* years now. 

Not blaming Flint for that, there’s many contributors (shit full backs, bang average keeper and soft as shit central midfield), but every good side is built on a foundation of being hard to score against, something that hasn’t been said about our defense for several years. 

[keflav]

3 hours ago, Boro5707 said:

I don’t think a Boro player has lived in Middlesbrough town centre for 30 years plus. 10 miles from to town centre to the North Yorkshire Moors and coastline.  

Training ground isn’t in Middlesbrough it  is in county Durham. £50 million 5 star rockcliffe hotel spa resort and golf course. Built by Steve Gibson. 

Even players who have retired/left the club still live in yarm, people like mendieta.  

The only time the players go to middlesbrough will be for the game. 

 

Spot on I live 5 miles from Rockcliffe hotel and my sons U8s got into the cup final there in may and it has to be said it is a great facility, Unlike Middlesbrough itself which quite frankly (and hope I don't upset anyone here) is an absolute S**thole… sorry it is. Most players will live in areas like Yarm and Wynyard etc...

Its Disappointing to see Flint leaving (more so as going to rival club, and because my brother in law is a bloody Boro fan) but Boro will throw the money at him and the ££££ will make it easy for him to go (don't get me started on our flawed wage structure and transfer policy)…

But at the end of the day players come and go that's modern football unfortunately just hope we get players in of equal or higher ability (but not likely with LJ & MA track record) we need to strengthen otherwise the coming season will be a struggle from the start...