Cowshed

32 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Well, having watched years of a side pass, backwards pass, side pass, side pass, lump it or pass it to the opposition, LJ may well have jumped from idea to idea, but it would seem he didn’t tell the players. The game play post Man City match was consistent, with ‘zero’ entertainment value.

Not sure I quite follow your FA driving reference, but it got me thinking of what sort of car the FA process would produce. I raise you a Fiat Multipla.

The game plan post Man City for Lee Johnson morphed from a short passing game to a long ball game and from a high press to a medium block. 

What sort of player have the FA helped produce. Looking at the current England XI and the FA's influence is there (future game) some highly highly skilled players. 

18 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Surely things like ‘movement off the ball’ should be intuitive, not process driven. It’s the split-second in decision-making that makes a difference between winners and also-ranks at any decent level of football.

Yes, obviously make sure those players without any common sense know they have responsibility to find space and angles for passes from players on the ball, but then give them the responsibility to do that on the pitch. 

Surely you don’t need to be pre-programmed. Once you’ve got 1) players thinking where should I be placing myself in accordance with my process - losing a split second - and 2) the opposition studying your patterns pre and during the match so closing those spaces down, the application of ‘process’ becomes a hinderance not a help. 

Movement is not intuitive. Players make split decisions based upon the internalisation of their training. The ball entering a zone is the trigger to move in relation to the players training. Players will take up positions in a split second displaying unconscious competence because they understand where the ball is, or most likely going because they recognise the patterns before them and the neuro process follows of pre frontal cortex, cerebellum coordinating instructions to the motor cortex to move muscles etc. That intuition is trained in during intense deliberate integrated practice, over years, and months. 

Now do a player who has not trained in responses, makes the game up? Will the player be more efficient? Will his reactions be split-second? 

24 minutes ago, RedRock said:

1) Musk does. Tesla have got robots to do manufacturing processes. 
2) Our Private Sector, that was lorded as being the super-efficient delivery model by the Tories, is a massive fail. OK for them to say we followed processes and hide behind excuses of changing externalities, but a fail is a fail. Got to be adaptable and innovative today, not slavishly following ‘process’.  The problem is everything is subject to external forces that frustrate delivery, no more so that on a football pitch. 
3) PRINCE2 has demonstrably failed to deliver either a successful public or private sector in the UK. If you haven’t been gifted natural common sense to run successful projects, then perhaps project management ain’t for you and reading a 386 page manual - as this Country’s performance over the last couple of decades has more than demonstrated - ain’t going to help. 
4) Suspect that innovation and intuition had a lot more to do with improvements in medical science than the application of ‘processes’.

5) As with most things it’s a spectrum with extremes. In the realm of football you can treat it as a science and base the game on applied logic and ‘process’. The FA have driven us down that route .. whether it be VAR or encyclopaedic coaching manuals. LJ was an extreme example of ‘process’ driven football. Many would say, however, football is an art form and should be played as such. If LM is an extreme ‘process’ man then I fully anticipate we will go down the same route as LJ with ‘crab’ football and robotic players that may well nullify the opposition but in the process comatose’s the fans. I hope that our hierarchy have leant lessons and the LM has a little more balance in his approach. Time will tell. 

Do the FA drive from encyclopaedic coaching manuals? 

LJ was not a extreme example of process driven football. He jumped from idea to idea. Process is periodized not episodic. 

17 hours ago, IAmNick said:

Can someone explain this to me?

At work I'm used to the opposite being beneficial - focusing on processes rather than outcomes may not achieve anything and can promote almost cargo cult behaviour (which I see a lot in the tech world). What's the point in processes if they don't achieve an outcome? Does it matter how you achieve the outcome?

Why is this seen as a good thing here? Am I wrong thinking that an example would be passing it around the back (because good teams do it) without focusing on the outcome l outcome (what they achieve by doing it)?

Processes get you to your outcome. Football coaching constantly focusses on processes to achieve outcomes, Training is process, the preparation to achieve.

To achieve a goal, a target you will not make up how you get there. There is a linear process present. 

The here there. The passing it around the back, almost certainly is a sub principle of the process. The good teams, the great teams, lots of teams have a model of play they are working towards. This is how they will achieve their aims of success. That model of play will be based upon principles of play which govern attack, defend, transitions and set pieces. Principle one of attack can be the team will be possession based, and play positionally. That principle will have sub principles that define how possession is kept and used e.g the team will play through the thirds, the team will build from the back .. I have got to your passing it around the back quickly there...Passing the ball around the back, keeping possession to build attacks is part of the processes, working towards outcome in the model of play that achieves success.

Differing teams will use different language. The above is not exact to all sides.

17 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Has LM has got one of these?

He probably has one locked away .. As part of his coaching badge projects. Their not uncommon at all sorts of levels. Level two coaches for grass roots teams did similar as part of assessment.

22 hours ago, Davefevs said:

That’s what I said.  I was replying to someone talking about styles.

I misread it, still triggered by years of a n other banging on about identity while going through styles.

19 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Worth listening to his press conference (live one) on now.  I think any one who’s listened so far, would have few worries.

He is not fixed, but has principles.

In football Dave principles are fixed. Really they are. As my rather qualified coaching mentor explained, "If you are changing your principles, their not ******* principles, styles change not the principles".

1 hour ago, bcfctim said:

Distance between the offence and the goal: On the edge of the box

General direction of play: Striker clean through on goal

Likelihood of keeping or gaining control of the ball: In total control of the ball, about to have a shot

Location and number of defenders: One defender behind the keeper hoping to block on the line, nowhere near making a challenge on the ball

Hence, denying a clear goal scoring opportunity. Red card.

Also Bannan's deliberately tripped him making no attempt to win the ball so even if it was in the penalty area it would still be a red card

Your going through the  DOGSO rule of DDDC. Distance from goal. Defenders covering. Direction of play. Control of ball.

When the foul is committed there is a covering defender. The Keeper and defender are in close proximity to the attacker. The players are covering. They do not have to be challenging. That could easily be the failure in the test.

11 hours ago, elhombrecito said:

You certainly can't argue that there was a defender and goalkeeper covering, but you also can't deny it was a 'clear goalscoring opportunity' therefore, a sending off is correct.

You are misunderstanding the word clear in relation to IFAB who set the rules. Clear will mean almost certainly score when all variables are considered.  The defender between the attacker and GK would prevent  the opportunity being DOGSO as it would not be 1v1. 

10 hours ago, Harry said:

But how can anyone say it’s a clear goal scoring opportunity when there is a denfeder stood directly between you and the goal? 
 

If that was a sending off today, then why wasn’t this one for Boro. Last man, player running directly in on the keeper, with the ball at his feet. 
 

 

Because the player is attacking from an angle. The wider the angle the less obvious the goal scoring opportunity is. 

12 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Will watch later.  I’ve met Gavin a few times, he’s fine.

Whats his expertise beyond finances? 

I watched the video and he is eloquent. Its not apparent if he knows anything about football.

Bristol City should be challenging at the top end of the table. Why because they say so. They have a great squad of players, 100% promotion this season. Significant investment this summer. The pieces are in place. Its great and fantastic. 

Its eloquently delusional. 

19 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Bottom half now.

Based on 21/22 accounts and teams now in the Champ this season, here is the wages at that point.

My gut feel is that:

Leeds, Leicester, Southampton, Watford and Norwich all have higher budgets than us….they are the PP clubs.

then add:

West Brom, Stoke, Middlesbrough, Cardiff, Birmingham - that’s another 5, making 10.

then if you take SL’s view that our wage budget is now in the £18-20m bracket, you can add the likes of:

Swansea, QPR, Coventry (off of this summer’s spending), Preston and Blackburn…maybe even Millwall.

+++++

I’d say we are 15th / 16th / 17th….possibly bottom 8, but only just.

Thoughts?

 

Sorry, can’t quote, so screenie.

 

For info - Chris Martin exercised HIS RIGHT based on the contract he signed under Holden that if he played x games (circa 30-35) he got an extra year,

Naismith was match too versus Leeds, calf tightened with 5-10 mins to go.

Thoughts. I thought despite my rudimentary understanding that the statement made was unrealistic, at best.  

54 minutes ago, 22A said:

Being cynacal, this is a marketing ploy with Christmas coming up and children requesting a foot ball.

Players, officials and spectators always managed with brown footballs. When white was introduced, brown ones would be used in snowy conditions. 

The markings on the ball are not necessary. Ever hear of a company who introduced a high vis ball to a top flight league and had to scrap it because players couldn't see it properly. The league was La Liga and the company was Puma, the ball lasted one week of matches. 

Fifa approved it, Puma hadn't tested a high visibility ball for its visibility. The markings and the pink looked lovely versus Spain's notoriously harsh snowy winters!!

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Correct.

In the league of budgets where would  BCFC be positioned?

9 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Osman? Pulis?

Pretty sure we have tried that route..

They have played 4-4-2 and quickly attempted to penetrate quickly hitting pomo's while maintaining a compact shape from a low block. Not so brave front foot football if you like.

I have just written some bollocks but it was more specific than this front football phrase, that is bollocks. It doesn't really mean anything.  

10 minutes ago, Harry said:

They were. But they didn’t. Because SL always fumbles from one ideology to another. 
This time, Pearson was driving it. What’s in place now was driven by Pearson and mediated by Gould. 

They were but they didn't. This was apparent within months of Lee Johnsons tenure. The club went on to create record debts, mammoth squad sizes doing none of these things that is says it will now suddenly be doing. Lee Johnson was creating massive losses, failure implementing no identity throughout the club, philosophy and recruitment to fit model of play over years. Year upon year and LJ was rewarded with an extension on his contract.

Ostriches? 

In the background was also Brian Tinnion, who appears to be becoming a Director of football, a man now directing the long terms of the FC.  

What is Mr Tinnion? Blind. Hypocritical.   

2 hours ago, Harry said:

I’m glad we are looking for a progressive, front foot, pressing coach. 
Most other clubs are looking for regressive, back foot, non-pressing coaches. 
So firstly, those words are just nonsense. 
 

Regards the playing style. Jon refers to us now having an identity that the new manager will be recruited into. 
And specifically that this is the first time they’ve had that clear vision. 
One thing - who has been responsible for implementing that vision throughout the club? 
Well, I’ve seen a very stylish document that explains the philosophy. It was put together when Gould was here and he told me that it was driven by Nigel. 
 

So, I guess it would have been nice for Nigel’s work on implementing the club philosophy to have been acknowledged.

Regards our ambition. I don’t know a single fan who had any expectations of promotion this season, so their ambition is very different to 99% of the fanbase.

But given this is their ambition and there is still 2/3rds of the season left, I am now fully expecting promotion and the new manager and the board will now be judged by me on this clear goal. 
 

If we don’t get promoted this season then I will now see it as a massive failure - and I will be blaming Jon. 

In 2016 the club was supposedly implementing a playing style throughout the club. An identity. 2016. 

He is using the same phrases as Jon Lansdown. Is there a tongue up his arse?

3 minutes ago, spudski said:

No I agree with you. 

I think what he says and the judgements he and the board make on the playing side have been a joke over the years, but it shouldn't get personal towards him. 

Like you I've noticed his demeanor in front of camera...some people are naturals, some aren't. It's obviously a nervous thing. 

Regardless of whether we agree with him... He's between a rock and hard place when being interviewed as it comes across so awkwardly. 

 

Unintelligently, in football terms.

What is this style he talks of? What does he mean when talking about playing one way throughout the club? Whats the model?

There was no model of play when Lee Johnson was here. 

7 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Everyone's mocking Jon but the job ad he prepared is pretty good 

Their not pressing high enough. 

5 minutes ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

Look at LJ’s last season, he did really well didn’t he! Spent approx £25M including a club record £8M fee! And was given a lot of time! After already having had 4 years of inconsistency and high spend. What a joke. 

There are jokes here. There is comedy. 

I don't know who that is interviewing, but he should have asked more about playing style. What are the principles, the keystone behaviours you are referring to Jon.

Could you explain what this model of play is Jon? I fear Lansdown Jnr would have got the plasticine out.  

28 minutes ago, Rocky said:

 

A man with no football qualifications, with no experience of Management, or coaching, or playing football is deciding that the club should have one way of playing throughout the club.

They gave Lee Johnson a man whose teams morphed through styles, and oversaw a club through its XI, the U23's and academy playing anything but one way four and a half years in his role, and record sums of money.

2 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

Is it viable for the football club to be it's own entity again. Is there a future for us outside of Bristol Sport? What has this "Barcelona" copycat scheme actually achieved for us, as a football club, that couldn't have been achieved outside of Bristol Sport?

Bristol Sport fundamentally is nothing like the Barcelona sporting model. If it was the members could replace its President!!

The answer to the question there is nothing. It is not necessary to create a separate company, a separate brand and entity to run commercials etc. 

4 minutes ago, Zuni said:

I have met NP a few times and he is nothing like the press conference prickly character he portrays. He is chatty, pleasant and interesting. 

He is however very "old school" in his methods and this has been useful in sorting out the mess he inherited but not necessarily the way for the club going forward (in their opinion).

Sadly it may have been he was only ever really brought in as a "fire fighter" short/medium term appointment and the plan was always to replace him around this time.

 

I have met Nigel Pearson a few times. I have had the opportunity to watch the XI, the U23's/21's and its academy train. I have also had the opportunity to talk about the clubs methods with Nigel Pearson as I have with Lee Johnson, and BCFC back room staff.

What are Nigel Pearson's old school methods? His tactics? His training? What model are you referring to that the club has going forward? 

22 minutes ago, Henry said:

It’s still a shift but I don’t think we’re going to agree.

No. I do sleep ins. My sleep in is not part of my working shift, I am asleep. I technically can be called (emergencies) to work, and I am receiving a payment, but the payment received reflects I am not working.

You may be interested in looking at the legal Mencap sleep in case. Sleep ins = Available to work, not working, hence employers normally pay sleep in rates below legal hourly payments because the employee is not on shift.

6 minutes ago, Henry said:

You don’t heard of the practice of working shifts and a sleep in? Or a doctor sleeping at a hospital and being on call?

Yes, a sleep in is a rest period. A individual maybe in the service for more than 24hrs. The individual is not working for 24hrs.

13 hours ago, Henry said:

Care work. NHS.

That is incorrect. I have worked for the NHS and work in social care for decades. Nobody should be working a 23 hour shift. You have legal entitlements to rest. 

Its dangerous for the individuals in question to work that long, for the people they care for and support, and for the services themselves. 

To: The Somerset Football Community

It is with great sadness that I have to write this statement, however we need to address the escalating issues of poor behaviour in grassroots football within Somerset.

The opening months of the 2023-2024 season has seen the worst start to a season that we have ever witnessed, with an unprecedented increase in disciplinary cases. At the time of writing, discipline cases are up by 50% compared to the same time last year, the number of abandoned matches is double that of 12 months ago and we have a huge increase in discipline relating to youth football.

Season 2021/2022 and Season 2022/2023 were already two of the worst in terms of discipline that we have ever seen in Somerset and, far from an improvement in these statistics, we are seeing a worrying trend in the opposite direction.

Most worryingly, a large number of these cases are in youth football. Cases involving youth players and referees have risen by an alarming 66% from this time in 2022. The main offenders in youth football are adults, be they coaches, managers, club assistant referees, spectators or parents. This may not come as a surprise to some of you who regularly watch youth football, but now is the time for everyone to take responsibility and protect the game that we all love. Young people in football, regardless of their role, deserve to enjoy the game free from abuse and negativity, and should expect adults to behave in a manner that sets a positive example. The young people themselves have told us that they prefer a friendly environment so they can learn and most importantly, enjoy the game, this is simply not happening at the moment.

It would be wrong to think this is restricted to the youth game. The rise in indiscipline is spread across all aspects of grassroots football, from mini soccer, youth football, adult male and adult female.

THIS CANNOT GO ON.

We all take part in football because we love the game and appreciate the enjoyment it brings us, be that playing, refereeing, coaching or numerous other roles. However, the atmosphere for most of our participants at this moment cannot be enjoyable in the current climate.

The knock-on effect is of course felt across all areas of the game, not least in refereeing. Recruiting referees is in itself a difficult task, however for those who come through our courses the environment they face is hardly conducive to retaining them. All our referees, especially those who are recently qualified and are learning the game, deserve the same supportive, encouraging environment that is given to the players. This is even more crucial when the referee is a child themselves. Sadly, we’ve had more incidents of adults abusing new or young referees, with young referees being left in tears by the conduct of adults. (Our under 18 referees are easy to spot, as most wear a purple/pink shirt, so there is no excuse.)

THIS IS A SITUATION THAT CALLS FOR IMMEDIATE AND COLLECTIVE ACTION. I would ask everyone involved in the game, whatever your role, your age, the level you are involved at to take a moment to reflect on their actions and interactions, both on and off the field and think of the following:

•  Am I promoting respect and sportsmanship, or am I contributing to the problem?
•  Do I need to make that comment, will I regret it and realise I’ve overstepped the mark afterwards?
•  Do I need to criticise the referee for a mistake, or perhaps should I reflect on the mistakes I have made myself during the game?
•  Am I setting a positive example to those who are participating? Adults - young people will copy your actions as you are their role models.
•  Am I a positive role model for children and young people?
•  Are my actions hurting football?

Most of you who read this won’t be the problem, the majority of participants abide by the rules and cause no trouble; however, we all must challenge poor behaviour when we see it; we cannot stand idly by and let the game be spoilt by a minority.

We will be working with clubs and leagues to reinforce codes of conduct and adopt a zero-tolerance policy for poor behaviour. This includes robust disciplinary procedures and sanctions for those who fail to adhere to these standards and could include the cancellation of fixtures.

These however should be the last resort, simply by taking ownership of our actions and behaving responsibly and decently, we can prevent these incidents taking place. It is for all of us to do our bit and do what is right and, if we do, the collective response will see us return to everyone taking part in the game we all love in the way we want it to be.

WE NEED TO ACT TOGETHER TO PROTECT OUR GAME

Somerset FA