Cowshed

5 hours ago, Jacki said:

I’m reading a lot of stuff about facilities, the academy, Lansdown’s intentions etc. I understand that people are frustrated at the moment but some of it is no accurate imo.

I’m fortunate enough to be at the HPC often, and have visited training grounds all over the midlands, south and south west over the last couple of years. HPC is an absolutely top class facility and is right up there with any I have been to….. the only one that is in a completely different league is Chelsea, which is exactly what you would expect. The ones you mention are also excellent, but ours is right up there with them. Those facilities will stand us in good stead when we’re trying to attract players, for many years to come. 

The post from @kmpowell is one of the most interesting I’ve seen for a long time. I suspect that one is spot on…. The lack of diversity of thought and the fact that SL has taken too much responsibility is most likely one of the key parts of the problem. 

Sorry top class would mean Bristol City's training ground would be amongst Arsenal, Villas, Brightons Chelseas, Leicesters, Man City's, Southampton, Spurs. With respect it absolutely is not.  I have been fortuntate to have seen my Son play at and taken youth teams to those facilities to play against academies and development sides. There are worlds apart there,

5 hours ago, Bat Fastard said:

Apart from the beautiful stadium, the state of the art training ground, the excellent academy and the fact that we have lasted in the Championship- what have the Lansdowns ever done for us??

Beauty is a perception, but we can measure excellence. Excellence would be category 1/player development efficiency. Bristol Citys academy is not cat 1 and not ranked in the top 15 academies in England for developing players = It is perfoming well, but not excellent. 

Your use of state of the art would indicate you feel BCFC have a training facility of the highest level. Versus the South West yes, but versus facilities at Villa, or Leicester or Southampton or many Championship sides and virtually all Premiership clubs its a big big no. 

1 minute ago, Harry said:

I wasn’t weeing myself about it. 
Just thinking of how we can influence. 
I don’t think refs are out to get us. I just think we need to get some awareness of our predicament and get into their heads. 

If we make referees aware of this massive anomaly, they might be influenced when making a tight call on the pitch. 
 

That one on Wells yesterday. I wonder if a ref who’d been subtly reminded that we’ve only had 2 penalties in nearly 3 seasons, might have that extra 1 or 2 percent favourable influence in his head and award it. Could be all it takes. Refs are human too, and can be subject to influence. 
 

I don’t think we’re victims of a conspiracy, and I’m not crying about it, but you have to admit, it’s a massive anomaly and I think we’d be right to get this highlighted to the world and particularly the world of officialdom. 

Are you sure about that? Or might they not?  

No I wouldnt. Focusing on what you control versus negative noise, solutions versus excuses, is a superior path.  

17 hours ago, Harry said:

I think we’re never going to get a penalty again. 
We need to start influencing these referees. They’re probably not aware that we haven’t had one since 1947. 
We need to laminate this photo and stick it on all 4 walls of the officials changing room. We should also have Jason Euell have a laminated copy and show it to the 4th official every time we have a shout turned down. 
They need to know. 
This pic was based on stats in August. I’m sure our line is off the chart now…..

 

 

Focus on behaviours that make success more likely. Don’t wee yourself about it (penalties)  Back to focus on behaviours that make success more likely those controllables of possession, chance creation versus the uncontrollables e.g. refs who are not out to get Bristol City. 

11 hours ago, Rob k said:

Anyone watching MOTD? How on earth have they asked the ref to look at the Brentford penalty and not the Forest incident which could easily have been a penalty? 
 

VAR - worst thing to ever happen to football 

It is beyond rubbish.

The VAR intervention would be contentious and be around law 12 then 14. The two are not the same.

The incident was then shown on screens in the stadium. Players are surrounding the ref, Crowd is? Henderson acts like a big baby and should have been have been booked for dissent then off for the second yellow.

It’s all pressure on the ref. Respect is arse wiped again.

The cycle of abuse towards officials is furthered, people see all of that and the refs at every level are fair game, abuse will be refs mobbed in cars from parents, punches thrown at refs, child refs leaving pitches in tears again and again at grass roots level ...What is seen at the top is repeated.

3 minutes ago, Countryfile said:

Which is why we need VAR as intended, to correct human error.

Expecting the officials to get every decision right is asking the impossible,  expecting clear errors to be corrected by referral when peoples livelihood’s are at stake is blindingly obvious.

Two things would improve the football experience for everyone immediately, VAR and taking the timekeeping away from the referee.

Thats not say that VAR is perfect, yes it will need refinement, but it’s got to be better than clear injustices benefiting those who have broken the rules.

Timekeeping isnt the responsibilty of the ref in pro football, fourth official there

The game exists without VAR. We dont need it. VAR does not improve the experience for everbody.

VAR undermines refs because instead of focussing on the ref being the official in charge, and that role being respected focus is on error. Refs still get criticised and abused and so does VAR .. A prediction I made becaause that a is a nature of humans.

VAR does not break the cancerous cycle of abuse of refs in the game. VAR wont recruit or improve the crisis in ref recruitment at grass roots level feeding into the games pyramid . Linesman are being reduced to individuals carrying a flag. The refs role gets dumbed down. 

Development? Progression? Impact on game? Respect? 

The game is being damaged. Each seaason football loses thousands more refs than it recruits. VAR could be adding to the haemorrhage.

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

But Sharp was involved in play.

I agree, but the experts with a whistle and flag did not. Even experts and that is what they are will make errors, or see the game differently in a fleeting moment. 

16 minutes ago, Countryfile said:

I believe you are well informed about referees and how they are selected, trained and observed for future involvement at the appropriate level, I have two questions that you may be able to throw light upon.

Why do some referees when they are dishing out cards take what seems an enormity of time to also speak/lecture the player, thereby using up valuable time which is never in my opinion recovered as additional time? I can see no benefit to the wronged team in this happening, it merely serves to benefit the wrongdoing by stopping play for longer than is necessary.

 

If you add all stoppages onto a game it becomes two and half hours long. Stoppages are demed what are normal and appropriate. Norms across leagues and Countries reflect its all very standard.

26 minutes ago, Countryfile said:

 

Secondly why do some referees also have a lengthy conversation with a player without brandishing a card? In this age of so called professionalism do they seriously think the players take any notice of them at all.

.

Refs should speak to players. Players do need information of why, what for, the consequences of what is next and some yes will not give a toss.  

28 minutes ago, Countryfile said:

I would be interested to know the ratio between players being given one yellow compared to two yellows, and how many fouls players given one yellow go on to make, I appreciate  that not all fouls warrant a yellow card, but is it proven that the first yellow acts as both a punishment and a deterrent to further fouls, 

Don't know Opinion here bookings moderate persistent infringements because its the last resort. As a player will I foul again when I know the next sanction is I am off? No I wont. 

Just now, maxjak said:

  How can something which is either On or Off be subjective?  Look up Subjective in a Dictionary? 

Because a player can be in an offside position but will not be penalised as they are not involved in active play. The whys of are open to the refs interpretation of the rules. The offsiide rule is open to discretion. 

2 minutes ago, Fammyfan said:

So the cost of it being implemented in Scotland has ranged from £67k to £195k per club per season, whilst this isn’t necessarily low cost, it’s small in the grand scheme of the millions at stake in the Championship.

We have had numerous costly decisions wrongly go against us and seemingly no big decisions wrongly in our favour in order to balance out. In the last 3 seasons we’ve been awarded 3 penalties (last one being 6 November 2021) and had 17 awarded against us.

With this considered, whilst there will still be errors, these will be reduced. If errors are due to a reduced standard of refereeing, VAR will provide a much needed aid. If errors are due to an issue against Bristol City, VAR will expose the inappropriate decisions.

 

I have not stated that VAR doesnt reduce errors, I have stated in another thread that VAR improves efficiency, That efficiency is quantified by IFAB the FA etc.

Yes VAR will expose. It exposes refs. Refs that are under pressure, and ridiculed, and disrepected. These are good people, decent people who are not cheats, are not incompetant etc. These refs are highly hiighly skiilled, that is how they get through a process.

VAR does not breed respect for officialdom. Respect is much needed in football where we are seeing at grass roots level child refs being abuse, Bristol leagues being postponed due4 to the levels of abuse, Bristol refs having to call the police to get out of car parks safely at kids game .. That abuse, a crisis is a national picture and is being fed from the top down.

Thousads of refs are giving the game up. More than are being recruited. These are good people, decent people. 

Yes there will still be errors. Yes there is still the cycle of disrepects aimed at refs in the EPL and that cycle will be iin the EFL.

 Priorities? Respect? The well being of the game? 

Just now, maxjak said:

No i would not sack a player after 2 or 3 errors........and your comparison is absurd IMHO.  To say that the offside was subjective is an observation worthy of derision.  By making that statement your initial credibility has just ceased to exist. 

The comparison is not absurd.

Bristol City players make errors leading to?

Refs and linesmen make occassional errors that may lead to? 

You were apparantly thinking refs should be sacked after one bad game, Sacked from employment. If refs are to be sacked after errors on that scalethe EPL/EFL/PGMOL are going to have to bring in a huge number of refs from abroad to hire and sack, refs who are of the same measured standrads, and who will also make errors.

Now that is an absurdity.

7 minutes ago, maxjak said:

 To say that the offside was subjective is an observation worthy of derision. 

Part of law 11 is subjectiive isn't it? 

The linesman has to make a call that involves variables of line, proximity, prescience, movement and on. Its not black and white.

16 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Good Luck with your campaign to highlight the wonderful standard of Referee's.

 I am answering your questions. 

17 minutes ago, maxjak said:

.i can imagine you were also a supporter  of 

Don't imagine. Labour not that is a measure of trust, Blairs WMD's that could be launched in 45 secs have not been found yet.

5 minutes ago, maxjak said:

So I can be assured that Steve Martin will now be demoted, as he failed to do his job properly last night, he made 2, and possibly 3 major errors IMHO., and i should add not just mine.  If there was an assessor there yesterday, surely he would be aware that the referee and assistant referee made blatant enough mistakes to have affected the ultimate outcome of the game?  The object of the exercise is to referee the match, and not make make markedly incorrect  significant decisions that decide the fate of the result?  

The possible offside v  Sharp isnt blatant. It is subjective x a degree of physical where a linseman would have to use primary focus, peripheral focus and subjective judgement at speed. Error there has to occur occassionally as humans are human. 

If the referee falls under a consistent standard yes they would be demoted. If your perceived standard of this refere is a consistent reality the referee will be demoted. Demotion will mean they will lose their job. Some refs are demoted from the PGMOL and at later date promoted again after improvement in consistency. 

Would you sack a player after two or possibly three errors?  

36 minutes ago, maxjak said:

I was just pondering.........do you have any involvement in refereeing?  You make a very interesting philosophical point in reference to blame, human error and responsibility. Yet despite your intriguing treatise, I am still of the opinion, that just like footballers, referee's need to improve their poor standards.  

I have been at a level where I have been modestly paid to play, coach and manage. I still coach and one of the things the ongoing coaching education includes is self-reflection. As part of the coaching and my own improvement I go to FA ran events for refs, Managers and coaches where refereeing, and rule changes ae discussed. 

A fact. Refereeing efficiency has not decreased, it’s the other way around over decades. The FA, leagues and IFAB who are responsible for the rules and how they are applied monitor efficiency. Refereeing in England up the pyramid via the PGMOL is intensely monitored, the refs are professional and highly skilled, they have to be and if standards drop, they are demoted. The process and ref pyramid from level seven refs upwards improves standards at each level. It is incrediibly hard to progress to semi pro level as a ref, past that is elite levels.

England’s refs are not second rate. If the refs were the EPL/EFL (purchasing highly skilled ref services) and the PGMOL (a business selling top quality ref services) would bring in refs from abroad, the ones whose efficiency is measured in La Liga etc who are actually performing at the same monitored standards of the PGMOL refs.

36 minutes ago, maxjak said:

.  There are good reasons that the referee's we get at Ashton Gate and elsewhere are not officiating in the Premier League, that is because in general, they are Second Rate?

Select one refs do EPL, Championship, div one, div two .. And some select one dont  because they are at standard, where they are on the super ref standard of EPL, FIFA, Europa and Champions leagues ..

40 minutes ago, Clutton Caveman said:

Why are we surprised by the standard of refereeing? Go to any junior game and the ref gets abuse from the parents all game. Move up to youth and players feel free to treat the referee in a way that if it occurred in the work place they would be fired on the spot. Move to adult football and the ref gets verbal abuse and often the threat of physical abuse. Why would anybody take up refereeing? Far less do nowadays and so we have a smaller pool. No surprise that the quality is low. I think we need a major change from the top to the bottom. Only captains can talk to the ref. Any abuse from players is not tolerated, any abuse from the parents of spectators at amateur level and the game is abandoned and if the abuse is repeated the club is suspended for a year. Nobody in any walk of life should have to put up with the treatment referees get. They are human. They turn out at the weekend to get some exercise and enjoy being part of the game they love and get paid almost nothing. If we want better referees we need more, to get more we have to treat them in a better way. End of rant.

The standard of refereeing is high. Refereiing standards in England of similar levels to those in comparatiive lewagues in Europe, Ref efficiency is measured, Refs have to go through a rigorous process of many years to reach championship level, a process that also seems them demoted if their marks and evaluations fall below standards.

Refs will make errors, as did the City player giving the ball away under little pressure with options available last night and Utd score from the possession City conceded. The reaction on here to a pass a youth player could have made? None. 

Double standards?

City failed because the team failed not because a ref made errors and errors above ARE part of football. 

 Projecting failure onto offiicials is a weak mindset. Excuses are not solutions. Excuses are a flight response not a fighters. A major change is needed in footall. Self reflection where people look at themselves rather than projecting blame elsewhere. This should start at the top with respecting the game. It is top to bottom. 

6 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

At this point I'm sure there is a conspiracy against us. 

 

Are you really really sure?

How would in this industry where detail down to minutiae is measured would this conspiracy versus one team be missed?

10 hours ago, Fammyfan said:

No punishment at all, so presumably it was missed….like the offside….like the shirt pulling (by the offside Sharp)

Awful decisions yet again, I seriously hope the ref watches back on this game.

Baffling that there is still no VAR in the Championship. When it comes, we will likely be 10 points better off.

Its not baffling, it costs, and the industry in the championship doesn't cover it yet.

No team would be better off points wise beyond a very short term. Unless you believe there is a conspiracy v Bristol City refereeing error is chance (luck). Luck is a consistent across all teams, luck occurs in even measure where refereeing errors even out across teams over months and seasons.

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

My observations are that when we did our mix of zonal and blockers, our four zonal “markers” lined up near the 6 yard line, and covered the zone a few yards behind them and in front of them, so not covering the 6 yard box but a 6 yard (ish) zone from 3-9 yards from the goal line.

Crude pic to demonstrate:

Basically leaving Bentley to deal with the two players inside the 6 yard box, who would be offside from any header from the “runners”…or Bents to clean them out if the ball was in that area.

What started to happen was that those 4 zonal players started to drift closer to Bents (3 yards out) and then left the runners to attack flat footed defenders 6 yards out.

Cowshed will probably give it better “coaching terms” than me.

We also left the back post open, and teams started to hit deep also.  It was however quite successful until in got got sussed around Xmas last year.

Your doing well. Drift is a fine description.

City are drifting to differing zonal starting positions. The consistent drift is deeper into the six-yard box, not drifting out past it. The drift increases the space in front of the zonal line which has to leave more space to control. Teams are putting bodies in that created space and there is a theme to the goals conceded.

Zonal marking has to be the control of space, City's zonal line dropping concedes control.

Step up the starting line a metre or two the picture changes.

5 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

They would have to advertise restrictive terms prior to selling the ticket. One assumes The Stadium of Light does not take cash anywhere, else confiscation of coins may be considered unnecessarily restrictive. There's also an argument to be had re The Equalities Act (2010.) Younger folks may not be eligible for debit or credit cards hence may be discriminated against when encountering issues getting to and from the stadium. Credit cards and (some) debit cards may also fall foul of Islamic doctrine should transaction fees arise, hence forcing fans to use these may be discriminatory. Visually impaired fans might argue they are unable to verify card payments without use of specialist terminals such they have to use money given it affords tactile information on that exchanged.

I'll get my coat ...  

Cashless payments can discriminate against people with learning disabilities and people with mental health conditions. These are protected characteristics under the 2010 equalities act.  

Bristol City FC, Bristol Sport, Bristol City Council, Bristol University, shops. Their cashless  services too discriminate against people with learning disabilities and people with mental health conditions.

It is raining outside I'll get the umbrella. 

12 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Might not have won the first ball on that corner and others with one less in the zone.

Newton’s Third Law and all that!

Don’t get me wrong, despite mine and @spudski’s differing views, I don’t think our current set up is optimal either.  Every set up is a compromise in some shape or form.

In a utopian world, we have players who have been briefed about opposition corners, can identify their triggers and set-ups, and are smart enough to adjust to each one in-game / real-time.  That’s not gonna happen in this current squad.  You still might concede to the perfect delivery, or concede to a fluke though.

I would expect a non league team to be able to adjust its line, I will go further youth teams can see a identified trigger to efficiently step up and down.

Your pics. Players react to one Swansea entering the six yard box. A player is making that adjustment and his team mates should be working off that adjustment and its trigger, or they are just reacting and making it up.  

I would question what the defending principles are. Set pieces should be governed by principles, players knowing their reactions and roles. 

1 hour ago, Bar BS3 said:

One of the most notorious stadiums in English football for intimidating & hostile atmosphere - acoustic design or because people made noise...? 

 

You have highlighted a ground where acoustics at the rears of stand were great. Great to be in as small crowds congregated at the rear sounded loud for the numbers. It was a unusual stadium as Millwalls fans would walk around 3/4 of it and change ends. The 2-2 when Aizelwood scored, and Millwalls firm ambushed City at London bridge under escort was so noisy because the majority of the gate (4-5 thousand) was in one end under the same low roof alongside 350-400 hardcore City fans on a mid week night.

41 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

…and look at each players average passing position!

 

passing networks aren’t definitive but we can see (at a glance) that Man City do their passing much further up the pitch, working openings, Swansea created pretty much bugger-all in open play.  Swansea probe around the centre circle, Man City probe much higher up the pitch.

Man City have almost twice as much passing in their opposition’s third than Swansea too.

It was not a point about anything beyond numbers of passes. I could have progresseed it a bit. Man City play with depth and width. Man City do play a lot from the back, its up back and through with Ederson making thirty plus passes a game, and the team making exceptional numbers of passes backwards (up to 40%), backwards to go fowards and stretch the pitch in theory.

Swansea are compact in comparison. 

31 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Fair enough although @Davefevsmakes a good point about where they are passing and the direction of passing. What Swansea "produced" yesterday was not good passing football imo unless your definition of good is keeping the ball, so the opposition aren't a threat whilst not being any sort of threat yourself. Swansea's major threat attacking wise yesterday came from set pieces.

I'm willing to bet that there are other very good attacking sides who offer far more than Swansea at a higher level than Swansea and who don't need to make 600-900 passes per game.

Man City's game recently v Dortmund saw City have five shots from 900+ passes. 

Good there is a perception. 

Possession at the top level is regularly used to nullify the opposition. Team rest in possession and subdue. Principle one is frequently the possession football is keeping the ball, in order to play positional play. 

The same fundamental principle is there in Swanseas play, with more functional positional play. 

29 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

It would be interesting to count how many passes the best attacking teams in the world need to play in 90 minutes. With the possible exception of Man City, and even they have morphed to a slightly more direct side (in terms of passing it forwards not smashing it forward) with Haaland up top, I would guess less than 638 passes a game in many cases.

Bayern Munich, PSG as an average make more passes than 638 a game. 

Man City recently went past 900 passes in a game v Dortmund who also average more than 638 passes a game. Haaland played in that game.

48 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Corner 1:

Wells covering man on edge of box (out of pic). Tame header won by Darling, O’Leary drops cap on it.

Corner 2:

Wells covering Fulton. O’Leary palms away for a throw.

Corner 3:

Wells splits both players on edge of box. Sykes heads clear at near post.

Corner 4:

Wells splits again. O’Leary punches under pressure, Semenyo and Dasilva complete the clearance.

Corner 5:

Ditto Wells although closely marking one player. Ball goes over everyone and Wells latches onto it earning us a throw.

Corner 6:

Ditto Wells. Ntcham now on. First contact by Swansea but tamely for a goal kick.

Corner 7:

Bell now on and splitting two (one out of picture). Vyner wins header for another corner at back post.

Corner 8:

ditto Bell  no3 in space but Tanner can cover. As the ball comes over…

Bell has backed away from the split  no3 still in space  Vyner wins header, Ntcham with aid of deflection, scores.

Corner 9:

Bell splits. Deep corner, Darling wins, Tanner heads behind.

Corner 10:

Bell splits, Dasilva in a position to close Ntcham. Headed away, Dasilva half clears.

Corner 11:

Same as corner 10, Dasilva in touch with Ntcham. King and Williams subbed in on this corner too, rare to make subs on corners. Volleyed away by Sykes.

So, I think we defended them pretty well in the main. The set up generally ok, bearing in mind Nige says we can’t man mark. What do you do?

 

Step up. City get consistently unnecessarily deep, which is obviously an opinion but zonal marking has to be the control of space, Dropping creates more space, lines do not have to rigid and they can respond to how much space the opposition leaves.

Corner one the team is high. Three the zonal markers are dropping (why?) and eleven they have dropped (why again?). This concedes control of space, and can create advantage for the opposition who have more space for runners, stepping the line ups denys the opposition space for runs on the defending zonal line.

19 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

You may have seen the ITV news this evening on this:

https://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/2022-10-28/abuse-violence-and-disrespect-sees-u16-football-league-suspended

The AYL has been suspended at U16 level this weekend after several incidents - including assault by a parent. As a coach of youth football, I wholeheartedly agree that bad behaviour on the sidelines and the pitch need to be stamped out. However…

- This punishes all clubs, not just the guilty ones

- The matches are being rescheduled so there is no “loss” of games. Indeed, as it’s half term, this may even benefit the relevant clubs.

I can’t for the life of me understand why they didn’t just penalise the clubs in question. Understand it sends a message but sending a message of your club losing points is so much more effective.

Nationally leagues are being suspended. This month - Referee speaks out as Merseyside youth league suspend weekend matches to raise awareness of abuse | ITV News Granada

In regards to one of the teams involved they are serial offenders. That a game was abandoned involving that particular South Bristol side is no surprise at all. That club itself is banned from numerous club tournaments. The Somerset FA should be intervening.

Nationally there is a respect problem. We can see at the zenith of the game officials being treated with contempt. Abuse of referees is approved of, ignored, part of the football. That culture of abuse is a contagen that infects the entire pyramid. Stamping out the culture of abuse starts from the top. All have a collective responsibility to the game. 

18 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

I think I agree in part and disagree in part. In the HML it’s non competitive but there is still natural competition and that wouldn’t change if it was formal league or friendly. I don’t really therefore agree with that.

Where I think you are right is that it isn’t right (unless they’ve moved) for kids from Portishead playing for Hanham or similar. That’s a total joke. It should be about playing with your mates (or other local kids) and forming the bonds and learning how to work together and rely on each other. It means more that way - but I have (even at U8 when I coached at that age) seen coaches give bollockings at HT which can’t be right.

I realise I’m totally lucky in that I have a really good group of parents who understand that it’s as much about having fun as it is winning the game. It only works if coaches and parents are on the same page.

Its normal, not a joke.

Some kids want to win, thats why they play, some want to be environments where they are challenged, some kids have differing needs (coaching and learning styles), some dont want to play with their less skilled mates .. The reaasons a child plays football are highly variable (intrinsic and extrinsic drivers).

One local side wont fit all kids, and that applies to us the coaches.

17 hours ago, Miah Dennehy said:

I didn't realise HML was non competitive , it wasn't when I was involved. I just think taking away the league structure would-hopefully- take away the focus from winning games and make it more about learning how to play the game and enjoying it. I have lost count of the amount of times I have heard youth coaches talk about 'must win' games .

Leagues are linked to age related priorities. Up to U11 its fun and developing skill. The HML is structured in to leagues and that is a developmental necessity. The standards are widely different. There are clubs linked to football schools, or running their own (one has City coaches) that by their nature start at U7 with more skilled kids. 

Post U11 football is train to compete till U16 ..Theoretically.

26 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

At the risk of passing the buck or getting too political, I don't think it has much to do with football. I think it's very stressed people, under a lot of financial pressure finding an outlet for that stress.

There were abusers abusing children, and that is what these people are abusing children prior to covid, or a changing economy. The game was already losing thousands more refs than it recruited due to abuse and poor behaviour. Its been an increasing wide ranging problem for years. 

Politically we are ignoring it. Politically we dont ignore the abuse of pro players who are a tiny minority versus the long standing phenom nationally in grass roots football.