Say Yes To Tesco

[Rich]

I have seen their members quoted many times saying that Mr Lansdown linked the world cup to the new stadium and without Tesco developing Ashton Gate then there will be no stadium and no world cup.

They have also said that Mr Lansdown is bullying the council into allowing the new stadium by linking the two.

Mr Lansdown actually said that if Tesco weren't allowed to develop AG then other funding would need to be found.

By this statement it obviously means money found to build the stadium.

Have a look on their site, there are many minor issues and I can understand peoples concerns about certain things like traffic and the disruption from the development.

Mostly it seems as if they are organised by the green party and a few corporate hating politically motivated people that

don't like anything to do with Tesco.

Rich,

Just thought I'd answer some of the questions/points raised here by you and others:

1. BERATE is not organised by the Green Party or any party, but has been set up by people who live in the streets around the stadium who don't want a massive superstore (of any kind) at Ashton Gate. There are people who live on streets around the stadium, in Southville, and Bedminster who have supported the statements made and been active in the group. There is alot of rubbish talked about how the opponents are loony lefties or TESCO hating types. Most people are just ordinary residents and shop keepers who want to preserve what we have already. The owners of Veg shops, Butchers, Bakers and Hardware shops and others are not all members of some elite loony left/green opposition. They employ many people directly and in their supply chains, and provide shops and services for many people who can't drive to supermarkets.

2. The people who form BERATE have stated very publically that they are not opposed to a new stadium and many activley support one. Most fully support the World Cup bid and would be a pleased as anyone to see world cup matches in Bristol. A new supermarket is a very different matter, and its not BERATE that has linked them together. Take a look at the plans that were displayed at the stadium for the public. The club made the link very explicit in the presentations given to local people

3. The e-petition set up on our behalf has probably been signed by people from all over Bristol, but then thats what happens on-line. Yours will be too. By the way, ours got stuck and we contacted the council to unstick it for us- You might want to give them a bell if your seems stuck too). The written petition is only really available in shops around North Street. 4. We have not made any representation or had our petitions in Sainsburys or any other store, so the one seen must have been Ashton Vale Heritage.

5. The figure of 300 cars per hour was provided at the presentation to local people. It is not made up. This was provided as an average turnover figure needed to make this size of store profitable. Obviosuly at some times of day the figure would be higher and sometimes less, but even if thats the maximum figure for 12hrs only, it equates to an extra 25000 cars with 60 lorry visits per week. Home games take place every two weeks only during the season and there are many fewer cars than this, but we don't know how many. My kids and those of many opponents to a store go to Ashton Gate. The nearby streets already act as a ratrun to people cutting off the corner to get to Winterstoke road. When they go to Ashton Park they will need to get past the store and Winterstoke road. So currently the extra traffic is on weekends (mostly) or evenings. With a superstore the extra traffic will be when they are going to school. There will be a higher risk of traffic accidents and air quality will be worse.

6. There will be an impact on North Street shops. It has been designated "an at risk" street by the Councils City Retail analysis. This means it needs special planning policies to help it. The retail analysis also showed that shops in South Bristol, including supermarkets, currently trade at below the average per sq metre for England. This means there is not enough business and cash to go around the existing shops. Now obviously people round here shop in a mixture of supermarkets and small shops, but a new Tesco extra will take trade away from some of them and smaller shops are more vulnerable because they have lower profit margins and depend on passing trade. The Retail analysis showed that South Bristol needs no new convenience retail until 2026, even if loads of new houses are built at Long Ashton.

Finally, BERATE have never said we are opposed to new development that helps the club at Ashton Gate or contributes to a new stadium. We just want something more beneficial to the local people than a supermarket! What about the legacy of the club? Over 100 years celebrated with a supermarket. There must be better options?

Cheers

[Rich]

I notice with great interest that the opening of primark is considered a welcome boost to an ailing part of Broadmead, bringing with it new jobs and greater choice.

Using this as a comparrison could Tesco be a boost for the so called at risk North St, bringing new shoppers and jobs to the area.

[Christof]

Good to see the debate about pros/cons of a Tesco concentrate on the merits or otherwise of a superstore away from any potential link with the new stadium or the supposed political views/class/etc of those opposing

On your point Cynic:

It might seem that shoppers who visit a superstore at Ashton Gate would also travel to North Streetshops, and maybe some would, but the evidence from other supermarkets shows this is doesn't seem to be the case, even where the store is much closer.

The shoppers survey for Bedminster found that people shopping in Asda rarely visited East Street on the same trip.

Have a look at the summary, which concludes that there is little business linkage between Asda shoppers and the East Street shops (based on actually interviewing people on the street). Now maybe thats down to the quality of shops there or some other issue, but it does seem to suggest that a superstore that is big enough to be a destination in its own right does not generate additional footfall in close by shops. Also, North Street is a good 500m at best from the stadium, depending on where pedestrian access will be.

Also Rich, on car numbers, the numbers equate to 23,000 per week, which means that 4 weeks supermarket traffic is equivalent to a whole year of match traffic, (based on your estimates) with the addition of 60 HGVs extra per week.

[Rich]

Good to see the debate about pros/cons of a Tesco concentrate on the merits or otherwise of a superstore away from any potential link with the new stadium or the supposed political views/class/etc of those opposing

On your point Cynic:

It might seem that shoppers who visit a superstore at Ashton Gate would also travel to North Streetshops, and maybe some would, but the evidence from other supermarkets shows this is doesn't seem to be the case, even where the store is much closer.

The shoppers survey for Bedminster found that people shopping in Asda rarely visited East Street on the same trip.

Have a look at the summary, which concludes that there is little business linkage between Asda shoppers and the East Street shops (based on actually interviewing people on the street). Now maybe thats down to the quality of shops there or some other issue, but it does seem to suggest that a superstore that is big enough to be a destination in its own right does not generate additional footfall in close by shops. Also, North Street is a good 500m at best from the stadium, depending on where pedestrian access will be.

Also Rich, on car numbers, the numbers equate to 23,000 per week, which means that 4 weeks supermarket traffic is equivalent to a whole year of match traffic, (based on your estimates) with the addition of 60 HGVs extra per week.

Hi Christoff

The main problem with cars from the football is parking and access in the streets close to the ground, you made the comparison between Tesco traffic and the football traffic. Tesco traffic will be confined to the car park and winterstoke rd predominantly, if they travel down North St then the shops could and should benefit.

As for the shoppers survey regarding Asda, was it carried out in the car park or east st entrances, as when you see the east st entrance it is full of people coming or going to and from east st and the bus stops back to Knowle, Hartcliffe and Withywood.

Who carried out the survey and is it available to see?

I know of many people that travel to the shops in North St because of their quality and don't think this will change.

I also think that because of that quality and the social outlets in North St it could well attract other customers from Tesco

combining their visits.

You can see from the experience of the opening of the tobacco factory how other outlets blossomed because of it.

Any competition from Tesco could be welcomed likewise.

[cidermeup09]

Hi Christoff

The main problem with cars from the football is parking and access in the streets close to the ground, you made the comparison between Tesco traffic and the football traffic. Tesco traffic will be confined to the car park and winterstoke rd predominantly, if they travel down North St then the shops could and should benefit.

As for the shoppers survey regarding Asda, was it carried out in the car park or east st entrances, as when you see the east st entrance it is full of people coming or going to and from east st and the bus stops back to Knowle, Hartcliffe and Withywood.

Who carried out the survey and is it available to see?

I know of many people that travel to the shops in North St because of their quality and don't think this will change.

I also think that because of that quality and the social outlets in North St it could well attract other customers from Tesco

combining their visits.

You can see from the experience of the opening of the tobacco factory how other outlets blossomed because of it.

Any competition from Tesco could be welcomed likewise.

I disagree that Tesco can provide a welcome competition to North Street and surrounding areas unless a direct investment is made from Tesco's i.e Section 106. I know local businesses are very concerned in the amount of services and shops in North street that are closing down or being turned into flats. The bingo hall is a prime example surely if the area was to enhance or improve then investment into a community building such as this (i.e from the Section 106 idea) would like you say create the affect that the tobacco factory has done for the West End of North Street.

I think that the Tesco would overhaul the local shops and Cafes in North Street, plus it creates unwanted competition as Sainsburys is so close. The development of a Tesco express in West Street has created some regeneration and improvements, however in only in a very small area. I think the development of a major Tesco outlet will not provide a so called pathway to the local shops in Bedminster because its a bit too far and in the wrong area to bring a positive impact to North Street etc.

As for the Car parking I think as part of the plans for a new stadium there is a transport plan for Ashton Vale and Long Ashton, which will improve the areas infrastructure. This will accomodate the increase in capacity, give different alternatives for people to get too the match and provide a better transport system for local people i.e different modes to town centre and less congestion in peak times.

[Rich]

I disagree that Tesco can provide a welcome competition to North Street and surrounding areas unless a direct investment is made from Tesco's i.e Section 106. I know local businesses are very concerned in the amount of services and shops in North street that are closing down or being turned into flats. The bingo hall is a prime example surely if the area was to enhance or improve then investment into a community building such as this (i.e from the Section 106 idea) would like you say create the affect that the tobacco factory has done for the West End of North Street.

I think that the Tesco would overhaul the local shops and Cafes in North Street, plus it creates unwanted competition as Sainsburys is so close. The development of a Tesco express in West Street has created some regeneration and improvements, however in only in a very small area. I think the development of a major Tesco outlet will not provide a so called pathway to the local shops in Bedminster because its a bit too far and in the wrong area to bring a positive impact to North Street etc.

As for the Car parking I think as part of the plans for a new stadium there is a transport plan for Ashton Vale and Long Ashton, which will improve the areas infrastructure. This will accomodate the increase in capacity, give different alternatives for people to get too the match and provide a better transport system for local people i.e different modes to town centre and less congestion in peak times.

You are of course entitled to disagree but that doesn't change the fact that allowing Tesco to develop at Ashton Gate could be good for the area.

Is it Tesco's fault that the bingo hall is closed or that old unrequired shops are being turned into flats to satisfy the housing demand?this is a natural process which is happening nationwide and not due to the proposed new Tesco.

By suggesting there would be unfair competition with the close proximity of Sainsbury's, then you should demand the closure of one of the newsagents, all but one of the charity shops, the same with the estate agents, bars, cafe's, all of which using that argument are unwelcome competition to the other traders.

Would there be such feelings if someone wanted to open a hardware store opposite Ashton park to compete with the lion stores?

As long as Tesco provide some housing and a public amenity under section 106 then I see no major problems.

[caravaggio]

You are of course entitled to disagree but that doesn't change the fact that allowing Tesco to develop at Ashton Gate could be good for the area.

Is it Tesco's fault that the bingo hall is closed or that old unrequired shops are being turned into flats to satisfy the housing demand?this is a natural process which is happening nationwide and not due to the proposed new Tesco.

By suggesting there would be unfair competition with the close proximity of Sainsbury's, then you should demand the closure of one of the newsagents, all but one of the charity shops, the same with the estate agents, bars, cafe's, all of which using that argument are unwelcome competition to the other traders.

Would there be such feelings if someone wanted to open a hardware store opposite Ashton park to compete with the lion stores?

As long as Tesco provide some housing and a public amenity under section 106 then I see no major problems.

And your own subjective opinion doesn't change the fact that allowing Tesco to develop at Ashton Gate could be bad for the area. You have so far in this entire thread not produced one shred of independent evidence that shows that a Tesco is needed in the area or that a large superstore has improved a local shopping centre.

"old unrequired shops are being turned into flats to satisfy the housing demand?this is a natural process which is happening nationwide and not due to the proposed new Tesco."

It is not a natural process but I am glad you recognise that there is a demand for housing.

Fact 1: The Local Development Framework for Bristol requires the city to build between 28,000 and 33,500 homes within the city boundary between now and 2026 EXCLUDING any urban extensions. A MINIMUM of 10,000 of these homes will be built in South Bristol.

Fact 2: The Citywide Retail Study reported that there was no anticipated demand for extra convenience (incl supermarket) provision between now and 2026 in South Bristol even allowing for anticipated population increases.

"As long as Tesco provide some housing and a public amenity under section 106 then I see no major problems."

But that isn't what your petition says - your petition simply says that the Tesco should be built. So have you changed your mind? Are you saying that the Tesco should only be built if it includes some housing on the site?

[Guest churchill gaffer]

A new E petition has been set up to counter Berate and other parties voting against the new Tesco plans for Ashton Gate.

It is Titled, Say Yes To Tesco.

Sign if you want to.

Go to http://epetitions.bristol.gov.uk/petition.php?id=264

Can somebody give me a reason why they hate Tesco?

They are just another Supermarket!

I'm all for Tesco giving us money, and having more competition in the area.

[Rich]

And your own subjective opinion doesn't change the fact that allowing Tesco to develop at Ashton Gate could be bad for the area. You have so far in this entire thread not produced one shred of independent evidence that shows that a Tesco is needed in the area or that a large superstore has improved a local shopping centre.

"old unrequired shops are being turned into flats to satisfy the housing demand?this is a natural process which is happening nationwide and not due to the proposed new Tesco."

It is not a natural process but I am glad you recognise that there is a demand for housing.

Fact 1: The Local Development Framework for Bristol requires the city to build between 28,000 and 33,500 homes within the city boundary between now and 2026 EXCLUDING any urban extensions. A MINIMUM of 10,000 of these homes will be built in South Bristol.

Fact 2: The Citywide Retail Study reported that there was no anticipated demand for extra convenience (incl supermarket) provision between now and 2026 in South Bristol even allowing for anticipated population increases.

"As long as Tesco provide some housing and a public amenity under section 106 then I see no major problems."

But that isn't what your petition says - your petition simply says that the Tesco should be built. So have you changed your mind? Are you saying that the Tesco should only be built if it includes some housing on the site?

My petition does not simply say Tesco should be built. It say's it should be allowed to be built, firstly to provide a choice of shop other than exist's at present, secondly to reduce congestion by shoppers vehichles travelling to and from Asda at the bedminster bridge area and thirdly to give an alternative venue for people from the outlying district's of Long Ashton and areas along the portway.

I do not need to produce any evidence for the building of a new Tesco, If it succeeds then it will be evidence enough, if not then you can be happy. There is not one shread of evidence that Tesco will be bad for the North St shops just pure negative speculation.

The citywide retail study reported that there was no anticipated demand for a superstore in south Bristol, well it was wrong because there is now a demand.

I have never said there is not a demand for housing, in fact I have always thought it would be good to have an extension of the Bristol conurbation into the proposed newtown area of Ashton vale utilising the physical boundaries of the A370 and the railway line but not as far as the Dundry slopes.

Nobody is forcing people to develop the old shops in North St into flats so it is obviously a natural process, what would cause it to happen otherwise?

Could you explain what relevance fact 1 has to this debate, if it is about demand for shopping if you go to Sainsbury's at virtually anytime of the day it will usually be busy, if you then add a further 10,000 homes (30,000 people) the equivilent to a town like Bridgewater to south Bristol then I think someone has got their sums wrong when calculating the demand for a supermarket.

As for Tesco providing housing on the site or a public amenity which I also said that you conveniently ommited then this will enhance the area and if the residents of the new store didn't use Tesco then they might use the North St shops.

My opinion hasn't changed and I doubt it will because the argument against Tesco is based on scare tactics and not a shread of evidence only predjudism.

As I have said before the existing shops offer a different service to Tesco and will continue to prosper unless the owners take the filthy luker and sell up to yet more bar owners.

[Rich]

Can somebody give me a reason why they hate Tesco?

They are just another Supermarket!

I'm all for Tesco giving us money, and having more competition in the area.

Sign it then

[Christof]

Rich,

I'm puzzled as to how a Tesco would ease congestion at Bedminster bridge? is this an assumption that Tesco will poach Asda customers? Can you explain your reasoning here?

You can find the shoppers survey for Bedminster referred to earlier at bristol.gov.uk/ccm/content/Council-Democracy/Statistics-Census-Information/citywide-retail-study---Shopper-Surveys.en

I've just found an assessment carried out for a public inquiry last year for a similar sized superstore (60,000sq feet). It should make worrying reading for residents close by and those who commute along Winterstoke road. Looks like 300 cars per hour is a serious underestimate.

This report was submitted to a public inquiry for a same sized TESCO last year.

It is at .documents.salisbury.gov.uk/public-planning-application-documents/00286500/00286259_Additional_Documentation.pdf

Traffic impacts are dissected in it (Section 7, 7.1, 7.2). It says that average car journeys per hour at peak times used for traffic assessments = 14.4 per 100 sqmetres of retail space.

Ashton Gate Tesco is 60,000 sq feet which is 5574 sqm,

so that means 802 cars per hour average at peak shopping times.

Planning guidance requires the assessment to assume there will be slightly more visits than average (15%) which means 18.4 cars per 100 sq meters which equates to

1025 cars per hour at peak morning and evening.

The key test is the current capacity of the existing road and infrastructure network.

Churchill Gaffer -No-one hates Tesco (apart from a few fanatics). This is about any giant supermarket for the site. But, since the club have said it is Tesco they are in discussion with, they are in the firing line.

[icamanicity]

It will be nice to have another supermarket within walking distance, that`ll save me on petrol,well, every little helps....

[Rich]

Rich,

I'm puzzled as to how a Tesco would ease congestion at Bedminster bridge? is this an assumption that Tesco will poach Asda customers? Can you explain your reasoning here?

You can find the shoppers survey for Bedminster referred to earlier at bristol.gov.uk/ccm/content/Council-Democracy/Statistics-Census-Information/citywide-retail-study---Shopper-Surveys.en

I've just found an assessment carried out for a public inquiry last year for a similar sized superstore (60,000sq feet). It should make worrying reading for residents close by and those who commute along Winterstoke road. Looks like 300 cars per hour is a serious underestimate.

This report was submitted to a public inquiry for a same sized TESCO last year.

It is at .documents.salisbury.gov.uk/public-planning-application-documents/00286500/00286259_Additional_Documentation.pdf

Traffic impacts are dissected in it (Section 7, 7.1, 7.2). It says that average car journeys per hour at peak times used for traffic assessments = 14.4 per 100 sqmetres of retail space.

Ashton Gate Tesco is 60,000 sq feet which is 5574 sqm,

so that means 802 cars per hour average at peak shopping times.

Planning guidance requires the assessment to assume there will be slightly more visits than average (15%) which means 18.4 cars per 100 sq meters which equates to

1025 cars per hour at peak morning and evening.

The key test is the current capacity of the existing road and infrastructure network.

Churchill Gaffer -No-one hates Tesco (apart from a few fanatics). This is about any giant supermarket for the site. But, since the club have said it is Tesco they are in discussion with, they are in the firing line.

Hi Christoff.

Yes of course Tesco would take trade from Asda and Sainsbury's, but at the same time providing more choice. I don't think it will affect North St, as this area provides a different shopping experience than Tesco could offer.

If you want a comparable situation with Tesco and the local shops, Take a look at the eastville store which has had little impact on either Stapleton rd or Fishponds rd, in fact on Fishponds rd a further supermarket was opened after Tesco started trading. I know Stapleton rd is not as affluent as Ashton so could be argued that it was more vulnerable.

As for the traffic concerns, again compare the stores at Eastville which create far more than the one proposed at Ashton and apart from motorway traffic to Ikea most of it uses the local roads.

[Jono]

Well done Rich, up to 260 and counting. Sign up if you haven't already http://epetitions.bristol.gov.uk/petition.php?id=264 and make sure you visit http://www.supportcity.net/ to find out how else you can help.

[Orbital]

I noticed today that more people have voted in the council petition against Tescos to build on Ashton Gate than for. As of this morning 779 had voted no to the proposals and only 237 have voted in favour. Given that public opinion does carry a minor amount of weight I would urge as many City fans as possible to give their approval to the development. As they say, every little helps. Click on the link and lets get this going.

http://epetitions.bristol.gov.uk/activepetitions.php

[Jono]

I noticed today that more people have voted in the council petition against Tescos to build on Ashton Gate than for. As of this morning 779 had voted no to the proposals and only 237 have voted in favour. Given that public opinion does carry a minor amount of weight I would urge as many City fans as possible to give their approval to the development. As they say, every little helps. Click on the link and lets get this going.

http://epetitions.bristol.gov.uk/activepetitions.php

325 in favour now - keep the momentum going and sign up now

[Ashton Great]

One of the recent signatures on the petition against Tesco is from a Steven Phillips.... :noexpression:

[View from the Dolman]

Signed!

[Dynamite Red]

Also guys not sure if you have seen this pinned at the top of the forum but please have a look and support the campaign.

As you may have seen on the OS or via an e-mail sent out by the club on the Trust's behalf, the Supporters Trust is calling on fans to support the club's planning applications for the new stadium and the Ashton Gate site.

Full details of this are available at www.supportcity.net ... these include a link to Rich's e-petition, which has been promoted on here, and several other online and offline means of showing your support.

Please take a look: www.supportcity.net

[Brizred]

403 now, need another 400 just to match the No vote, don't let apathy give the Council the opportunity to veto the application. Steve Lansdown needs us to show our support for what he's trying to do for Bristol City Football Club.

[Bob Dobbs]

I've signed up... now if all the people currently browsing the forum sign too we'll be ahead! Up the Reds!!

[Dollymarie]

Done it and signed it on behalf of my parents as well.

[bcfcbs20]

Done it and signed it on behalf of my parents as well.

done the same thing i asked my dad if he has signed it yet he said no so i did one for him my mum, brother and sister and my nan

[Dollymarie]

Make sure they all go and open the link so that their signature is activated. I've told both of mine

[Nibbler]

I noticed today that more people have voted in the council petition against Tescos to build on Ashton Gate than for. As of this morning 779 had voted no to the proposals and only 237 have voted in favour. Given that public opinion does carry a minor amount of weight I would urge as many City fans as possible to give their approval to the development. As they say, every little helps. Click on the link and lets get this going.

http://epetitions.bristol.gov.uk/activepetitions.php

It's up to 506 now ...................

[Jono]

Don't stop now - up to 535

[EmersonsKev]

Bump, 550 now BERATE have 787, the gap is closing!

[Blagdon red]

Bump, 550 now BERATE have 787, the gap is closing!

Indeed the 'Say Yes' petition has added over 300 votes since this thread began, while the 'Say No' one (set up by Southville's Green Party councillor Charlie Bolton - is it the right thing for a councillor to be doing, i.e. dictating a predetermined agenda rather than listening to and then reflecting public opinion??) has added 8.

Keep them coming!

[EmersonsKev]

My concern is that the "yes vote" petition is closing before the "no vote" petition.

[Blagdon red]

Won't the decision have been made before the NO petition closes ?

Yes, decision day is scheduled for November 5th.