Say Yes To Tesco

[icamanicity]

We should be able to take it through the 1000 mark before the 15th of this month, when it ends, just needs one more big PUSH...

[Timmis DK]

Voted NO!

I can't believe so many people are prepared to say Yes and sell out the entire well-being and identity of the local community.

It is embarassing to see such a level of apathy of people buying into this mis-guided support for Tesco.

As much as I also want a new stadium for our club, selling out the area is simply not the way to do it.

I am yet to hear a considered, positive arguement for the Tesco Ashton Gate project for the long-term benefit of working people and supporters.

All I hear is 'new stadium'- Is no-one interested in an outcome where the club AND the area of Bedminster wins???

[Rich]

Voted NO!

I can't believe so many people are prepared to say Yes and sell out the entire well-being and identity of the local community.

It is embarassing to see such a level of apathy of people buying into this mis-guided support for Tesco.

As much as I also want a new stadium for our club, selling out the area is simply not the way to do it.

I am yet to hear a considered, positive arguement for the Tesco Ashton Gate project for the long-term benefit of working people and supporters.

All I hear is 'new stadium'- Is no-one interested in an outcome where the club AND the area of Bedminster wins???

It's not in the area of Bedminster it's in Ashton and the far side of Ashton away from Bedminster

and I fail to see what effect it will have on Bedminster that Asda hasn't already,

The butchers, bakers, greengrocers and all other shops survive in East St alongside Asda.

Tesco will do the same at Ashton and North St.

Just off the top of my head are a few positives.

There will be another a store whithin walking distance for the people of Ashton.

There will be another petrol station improving choice for motorists

The people of south Bristol and North Somerset will have a Tesco if they wish to go there.

The people of the areas down the portway will have a choice to go there.

The stadium will be moved from a densely populated area to a less densely populated area.

Tesco will deliver peoples goods in the area.

Sainsbury's have been turned down for expansion because of lack of car park space (demand is there).

There will be a recyling area (not at present)

I believe there will be a new community facility.

The people in the flats will have better views and more daylight.

The people living in Ashton road will have a better environment (absence of thousands of fans).

Tesco will provide lobs for the community.

You will be able to buy things when other shops are closed.

The new stadium will create construction and permanent employment

The new store will provide construction jobs.

It is likely to bring more people/customers to north st shops.

It will give our club the chance to prosper and continue to be a part of the local community.

There is not a considered arguement against Tesco, only a campaign initiated by pro-active

members of the green party that have based their campaign on scaremongering to win support.

This campaign was started by residents of Southville which is the only ward represented by a green councillor

In the whole of Bristol, that should tell you something about the peoples political bias in the area

(renowned for being Tesco haters).

I should add that I have nothing against green people and realise what good work some of them do.

We could now get in a slanging match and say that isn't correct, or oh yes it is, but nothing is proven.

The shops on North St have been under threat recently by the increase in bars, eating establishments

and places of entertainment and the existing shops will probably thrive just as the Southville Deli has

since it opened as a single shop unit.

I note that not one of the shops that have closed in recent times has relocated to empty premises further down

Towards Bedminster

Obviously any addition to an area will have an effect on the environment but are we to stand still and not let anything happen anywhere?

[icamanicity]

Well said THAT man, now anyone that has`nt signed the petition, should go and do so NOW...

[Dollymarie]

Up there is your balanced argument Timmis.

[Slave to the rhythm]

It's not in the area of Bedminster it's in Ashton and the far side of Ashton away from Bedminster

and I fail to see what effect it will have on Bedminster that Asda hasn't already,

The butchers, bakers, greengrocers and all other shops survive in East St alongside Asda.

Tesco will do the same at Ashton and North St.

Just off the top of my head are a few positives.

There will be another a store whithin walking distance for the people of Ashton.

There will be another petrol station improving choice for motorists

The people of south Bristol and North Somerset will have a Tesco if they wish to go there.

The people of the areas down the portway will have a choice to go there.

The stadium will be moved from a densely populated area to a less densely populated area.

Tesco will deliver peoples goods in the area.

Sainsbury's have been turned down for expansion because of lack of car park space (demand is there).

There will be a recyling area (not at present)

I believe there will be a new community facility.

The people in the flats will have better views and more daylight.

The people living in Ashton road will have a better environment (absence of thousands of fans).

Tesco will provide lobs for the community.

You will be able to buy things when other shops are closed.

The new stadium will create construction and permanent employment

The new store will provide construction jobs.

It is likely to bring more people/customers to north st shops.

It will give our club the chance to prosper and continue to be a part of the local community.

There is not a considered arguement against Tesco, only a campaign initiated by pro-active

members of the green party that have based their campaign on scaremongering to win support.

This campaign was started by residents of Southville which is the only ward represented by a green councillor

In the whole of Bristol, that should tell you something about the peoples political bias in the area

(renowned for being Tesco haters).

I should add that I have nothing against green people and realise what good work some of them do.

We could now get in a slanging match and say that isn't correct, or oh yes it is, but nothing is proven.

The shops on North St have been under threat recently by the increase in bars, eating establishments

and places of entertainment and the existing shops will probably thrive just as the Southville Deli has

since it opened as a single shop unit.

I note that not one of the shops that have closed in recent times has relocated to empty premises further down

Towards Bedminster

Obviously any addition to an area will have an effect on the environment but are we to stand still and not let anything happen anywhere?

You say that one of the advantages of building a new Tesco is that the people of South Bristol can go to a Tesco. Haven't you ever heard of the rather large Tesco over at Brislington, which is also in South Bristol? Also, "you will be able to buy things when other shops are closed" is hardly relevant bearing in mind that Asda (and Sainsburys?) already stay open all night, and the convenience stores on North Street are open until about 11pm. And just what is meant by "a new community facility"?

Just asking.

[Timmis DK]

Up there is your balanced argument Timmis.

Are you crazy??! That isn't even in the slightest a balanced arguement!

If it was balanced in any way then Rich wouldn't be bringing the new stadium into it. It is completely disgusting how certain people are twisting the arguement to be about Pro VS Anti New Stadium. I have and always will be for the new stadium but it should not come at the cost of selling out the area.

This is about the threat of Tesco trying to force it's way in and kill off the local economy of the area, and monopolise.

Another supermarket is not needed, as has been said there is already 24 hour facilities available nearby.

It's also ridiculous build an arguement on the new stadium being in a less densely populated area and how that will benefit the local residents around Ashton Gate. Whilst somehow not being able to conclude that a supermarket will bring more cars and people through the area on a much more regular basis than a matchday every fortnight.

As well as all the common sense reasons not to have a Tesco built, is the emotive sense of pride to our clubs legacy. We will become a complete laughing stock to other clubs if Ashton Gate becomes a Tesco.

[NickJ]

[View from the Dolman]

Are you crazy??! That isn't even in the slightest a balanced arguement!

If it was balanced in any way then Rich wouldn't be bringing the new stadium into it. It is completely disgusting how certain people are twisting the arguement to be about Pro VS Anti New Stadium. I have and always will be for the new stadium but it should not come at the cost of selling out the area.

This is about the threat of Tesco trying to force it's way in and kill off the local economy of the area, and monopolise.

Another supermarket is not needed, as has been said there is already 24 hour facilities available nearby.

It's also ridiculous build an arguement on the new stadium being in a less densely populated area and how that will benefit the local residents around Ashton Gate. Whilst somehow not being able to conclude that a supermarket will bring more cars and people through the area on a much more regular basis than a matchday every fortnight.

As well as all the common sense reasons not to have a Tesco built, is the emotive sense of pride to our clubs legacy. We will become a complete laughing stock to other clubs if Ashton Gate becomes a Tesco.

If the answer isn't Tesco, what is it?

[Flaxbourton Red]

If the answer isn't Tesco, what is it?

try this

http://www.lowryhomes.com/development.asp?did=33

[View from the Dolman]

try this

http://www.lowryhomes.com/development.asp?did=33

And which house building developers are queuing up to buy Ashton Gate?

[Dollymarie]

Anyone who thinks we will get the same kind of money from selling AG to a homes developer as opposed to Tesco is deluded.

Its not a few quid difference, its in the millions. And we simply dont have that kind of money to spend on the new stadium just lying around. Nor would I want us to get into anymore debt to help build it.

There were no other offers to buy the land, I was at the meeting at the council house in recent weeks which discussed things, and no one else put in an offer for to buy the land other than Tescos.

[View from the Dolman]

Anyone who thinks we will get the same kind of money from selling AG to a homes developer as opposed to Tesco is deluded.

Its not a few quid difference, its in the millions. And we simply dont have that kind of money to spend on the new stadium just lying around. Nor would I want us to get into anymore debt to help build it.

There were no other offers to buy the land, I was at the meeting at the council house in recent weeks which discussed things, and no one else put in an offer for to buy the land other than Tescos.

I don't think there's any developers queuing up to do much right now.

If we want a new stadium, then we have to realise it has to be paid for. We are incredibly fortunate that Steve is able to support the majority of the financial burden but we have to realise we can't rely solely on his wallet.

Yes, it would be lovely if AG could be used as a sports facility for the community or for something that would bring joy to the people of Bristol. Unfortunately, however, the land at AG is our only notable asset so we have to maximize our return from that. If that means Tesco, then I will fully support it.

[Timmis DK]

So it's take the money and sell out the community for you then?

It's about more than just the money, it's also about integrity and social responsibility.

If the deal isn't right then, and in this case it most certainly isn't. No thanks.

[View from the Dolman]

So it's take the money and sell out the community for you then?

Are you aware of any other proposals? Or do you expect Steve Lansdown to also fund turning Ashton Gate in a community asset?

It's about more than just the money, it's also about integrity and social responsibility.

So which proposal which is real and possible in the current economic climate has integrity and is socially responsible?

If the deal isn't right then, and in this case it most certainly isn't. No thanks.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion but that's all it is. Hopefully, you'll respect my right to freely choose what I want too.

If you don't support the Tesco at Ashton Gate, yet want a new stadium... how do you suggest the new stadium is financed? What proposal would you prefer to take place at Ashton Gate that is realistic and achievable in this financial climate?

Perhaps, I'm mis-reading you (and my apologies if indeed I am) but you're viewpoint is that you do support the need for a new stadium, reject the proposal for the sale of Ashton Gate to Tesco yet can't offer anything that would deliver ideological objectives?

[icamanicity]

As i live in bedminster, would be willing to swap houses with anyone who doe`nt want a tesco on their doorstep, i wont mind living near the proposed store...

[NickJ]

Integrity and social responsibility ?

Nah. It's about building a big shop on what will be waste ground.

Thanks for that.

Very thought provoking.

There are many arguments against building a big shop on a piece of waste ground. For example, government anti-competition policy would I imagine be a factor, as would the desirability or otherwise of building a mixed development incorporating housing, retail, light industrial, open space, or whatever.

Effect on the environment is a factor also - in my opinion large-scale anything built in a suburban area is an eyesore.

Of course the club have to sell to the highest bidder. Local planning councils exist among other reasons to determine whether planned development is desirable and beneficial for the majority.

I havent voted yet, doubt if I will, it wont make much if any difference, but if I did it would be No to Tesco.

If that means the club cant find someone willing to pay the amount it needs, and we stay at AG, and that means we remain in Division 2, so be it. My vote, my choice.

[cidercity]

so bristol is awash with social housing and affordable housing for key workers?

there are no housing waiting lists in Bristol?

What the hell is social housing and affordable housing for key workers ?, could this be the new PC name for council houses ?.

While we are at it what the hell is a key worker ?, surely in this PC b#####ks country we are all equal.

If we need more COUNCIL houses, why over the last 30 years have the council sold off thousands to the private sector ?.

[Flaxbourton Red]

What the hell is social housing and affordable housing for key workers ?, could this be the new PC name for council houses ?.

While we are at it what the hell is a key worker ?, surely in this PC b#####ks country we are all equal.

If we need more COUNCIL houses, why over the last 30 years have the council sold off thousands to the private sector ?.

because people wanted to buy them, the council was prevented from spending that money on building new ones so as not to distort the private housing market

this was tory government policy

[Rich]

Someone will put a far better counter argument than I have, but thats my tuppenyworth for starters.

I appreciate you are supporting the club, and if there is to be a new stadium, so be it - I have my reservations but recognize that the majority appear to want it.

As for what replaces AG, Im not a Green party member and most obviously there has to be progress, the question is, what is progress?

I happen to believe that "Small is Beautiful".

Yes, there is a place for large supermarkets, but IMO not the monsters which the likes of Tesco want to inflict on the world.

I will reply later but at the moment, what are you saying about butchers shops? I was saying they do survive, if you bother to read it properly.

[NickJ]

I will reply later but at the moment, what are you saying about butchers shops? I was saying they do survive, if you bother to read it properly.

I did bother to read your post properly, thanks, so I know you were saying that butchers shops do survive.

Unfortunately that statement is at odds with the facts, on a nationwide basis, and the unfair competition and misleading marketing from supermarkets is the cause.

Does it matter?

Yes, as any farmer, for example will tell you, supermarket meat is generally of inferior quality.

Have butchers in Bedminster survived despite competition from Sainsburys, Asda Lidla and Tesco Express?

Yes, however one or two have closed over the years and another supermarket increases the likelihood of more going out of business.

Which is bad for the consumer due to the inferior quality of supermarket meat.

Sorry, bit of a detailed reply about butchers for a football forum(!)

[Drew Peacock]

What the hell is social housing and affordable housing for key workers ?, could this be the new PC name for council houses ?.

While we are at it what the hell is a key worker ?, surely in this PC b#####ks country we are all equal.

If we need more COUNCIL houses, why over the last 30 years have the council sold off thousands to the private sector ?.

Effectively yes, it is the new name for what used to be council housing. It also includes shared equity.

A key worker is:

* clinical NHS staff (with the exception of doctors and dentists)

* teachers and nursery nurses in schools and further education/sixth form colleges

* police officers, community support officers and some civilian staff

* prison officers and some other prison staff

* Probation Service staff

* social workers, nursery nurses, educational psychologists, and therapists (eg occupational therapists) employed by local authorities, the Children and Family Court Advisory and Support Service (CAFCASS), or the NHS

* local authority planners

* firefighters and other uniformed staff below principal level in Fire and Rescue Services

* Connexions personal advisors employed by a local authority or a Connexions partnership

* Ministry of Defence (certain personnel)

* qualified environmental health officers/practitioners who work in a local authority, government agency, NHS or other public sector agencies

* Highway Agency traffic officer staff in safety critical roles within the traffic officer service

Not entirely sure why you would classify some of those as key workers, but there we go.

[Rich]

I did bother to read your post properly, thanks, so I know you were saying that butchers shops do survive.

Unfortunately that statement is at odds with the facts, on a nationwide basis, and the unfair competition and misleading marketing from supermarkets is the cause.

Does it matter?

Yes, as any farmer, for example will tell you, supermarket meat is generally of inferior quality.

Have butchers in Bedminster survived despite competition from Sainsburys, Asda Lidla and Tesco Express?

Yes, however one or two have closed over the years and another supermarket increases the likelihood of more going out of business.

Which is bad for the consumer due to the inferior quality of supermarket meat.

Sorry, bit of a detailed reply about butchers for a football forum(!)

Here is my reply Nick.

Butchers are going out of business because we don't consume as much meat as we did (fact).

Could you also tell me who produces the inferior meat if it isn't farmers?

Choice is the answer refering to shopping at other supermarkets or petrol stations and having that choice

when sainsbury's is busy.

Brislington although south of the river is actually in east Bristol and over three miles from Ashton

so a lot of fuel will be saved (fact).

Residents of Failand, Long Ashton, Barrow Gurney, Leigh Woods, Pill, Bower Ashton, the Chews, Dundry, Flax Bourton as well as previously mentioned places are closer or quicker to Ashton than existing stores (fact).

Henleaze is a non starter if you live along the portway, Ashton is quicker and easier and a better alternative to Cribbs (fact).

Tesco in Ashton won't have as far to deliver to the local area because as stated they would be closer (fact).

There isn't a recycling plant at present so that is a positive step (fact).

I don't know what the community amenity will be as yet but I am assured there will be something to benefit the community

apart from a big shop with Toilets and a petrol station.

Apart from the top three floors of the nearest flats all will have more light and all three blocks will have enhanced views (fact).

What other modern day development could create 400 jobs, this applies to the new stadium and Tesco's which both offer high

job numbers. They could expand the park and ride or build a wharehouse at AG, how many jobs would that create?

I don't live in or come from Dumbarton, that refers to people from Barton who might be dumb. I'm from south Bristol,

with lots of Ashton connections.

The stadium will be bordered by 14 existing houses in Ashton vale and any proposed new housing will be considerably further away (if they go ahead) than the present stadium in the densely populated Ashton area (fact)

Although I had my doubts at first I'm now certain it should be Tesco.

You obviously have no doubts and should follow your instinct and do as you say by voting against our club and it's plans,

sleep well.

[Drew Peacock]

Butchers are going out of business because we don't consume as much meat as we did (fact).

Could you also tell me who produces the inferior meat if it isn't farmers?

It's not the production of the meat - butchers as well as supermarkets sell factory farmed, inhumanely produced meat. It's the lack of hanging time by most supermarket meat which makes it an inferior product.

[Guest AJ Sylvester]

Someone will put a far better counter argument than I have, but thats my tuppenyworth for starters.

I appreciate you are supporting the club, and if there is to be a new stadium, so be it - I have my reservations but recognize that the majority appear to want it.

First of all you suggest that Rich is from Dumbarton - now if this is the guy who was on the Supporters Trust website the other day then he's from Bristol. Maybe born up there originally?

Secondly - Southville Deli shut down!?! Funny, I went in today and bought my lunch from there!

Now here are a few for you:

1. I live in Ashton. I do all my shopping on North Street even though Sainsbury's is about the same distance. Why will I now change my shopping habits and stop shopping on North Street just because there is a Tesco? If those shops survive now despite Asda, Sainsburys, Lidl, Aldi, Iceland and small Tesco's then is a new Tesco REALLY going to make a difference?

2. Congestion is expected to be the same or better as a result of the road upgrades. So I assume you're not using that argument? You're talking about a road network that can come with 20,000 people coming and going at the same time for football. One car every 5 to 10 seconds isn't going to make any difference (that figure is peak and INCLUDES diverted and passing traffic).

3. A huge percentage of the traffic is estimated to be diverted traffic from other supermarkets (in some cases cutting their journey distance) or passing traffic. So the traffic argument is total rubbish. Yes there may be a very small increase but but on that basis we should never build anything incase it brings cars. No football, no concerts, no nights out. I'd rather we put our efforts into good public transport options.

4. If not Tesco then what? Flats = Also traffic and congestion, probably far larger building for those living really near. More likely a long wait for housing market to pick up and a good chance of a derelict site. Beautiful! Most likely no stadium so still the old rusty stadium.

5. If someone offered you £250k for your house and someone else said they'd give you £1m - what would you take?

[CiderArmyBCFC]

I really couldn't give a toss what some people are saying about 'the local shops' if the people who are moaning about them are worried about them being closed down why don't you continue to use these shops so they wouldn't be forced to close down.

Simples.

[Rich]

It's not the production of the meat - butchers as well as supermarkets sell factory farmed, inhumanely produced meat. It's the lack of hanging time by most supermarket meat which makes it an inferior product.

So are we eating less meat because it is inferior, or because there are more vegetarians.

Is this inferior meat such because of the conditions and the foods the farmers feed their livestock

as well as the lack of hanging time?

Are the supermarkets solely to blame for butchers closing or are the green party vegetarians in collusion with Them?

[NickJ]

[Flaxbourton Red]

I don't live in or come from Dumbarton, that refers to people from Barton who might be dumb. I'm from south Bristol,

with lots of Ashton connections.

is i'm from the same as I live in?

[NickJ]

First of all you suggest that Rich is from Dumbarton - now if this is the guy who was on the Supporters Trust website the other day then he's from Bristol. Maybe born up there originally?

Secondly - Southville Deli shut down!?! Funny, I went in today and bought my lunch from there!

Now here are a few for you:

1. I live in Ashton. I do all my shopping on North Street even though Sainsbury's is about the same distance. Why will I now change my shopping habits and stop shopping on North Street just because there is a Tesco? If those shops survive now despite Asda, Sainsburys, Lidl, Aldi, Iceland and small Tesco's then is a new Tesco REALLY going to make a difference?

2. Congestion is expected to be the same or better as a result of the road upgrades. So I assume you're not using that argument? You're talking about a road network that can come with 20,000 people coming and going at the same time for football. One car every 5 to 10 seconds isn't going to make any difference (that figure is peak and INCLUDES diverted and passing traffic).

3. A huge percentage of the traffic is estimated to be diverted traffic from other supermarkets (in some cases cutting their journey distance) or passing traffic. So the traffic argument is total rubbish. Yes there may be a very small increase but but on that basis we should never build anything incase it brings cars. No football, no concerts, no nights out. I'd rather we put our efforts into good public transport options.

4. If not Tesco then what? Flats = Also traffic and congestion, probably far larger building for those living really near. More likely a long wait for housing market to pick up and a good chance of a derelict site. Beautiful! Most likely no stadium so still the old rusty stadium.

5. If someone offered you £250k for your house and someone else said they'd give you £1m - what would you take?

Well, first of all my wife told me only yesterday the Southville Deli had closed down, so she has some serious explaining to do and in risk of all manner of punishments for making me look such a fool. Maybe it closed and re-opened?

Anyway, apart from that, the traffic argument thing, I havent mentioned that anywhere in my reply, so I havent got a clue what you're referring to.

As for alternatives to Tesco, how about:

- Housing

- Light industrial

- Retail (small units)

- Warehousing

- A mix of all of the above

Or, how about, a football stadium, now theres an idea.

Clearly BCFC will take your £1m rather than my £250k, I'm not suggesting they shouldnt, given the opportunity. However the planning laws exist to prevent everybody building exactly what they want, otherwise there would be chaos, so we shall have to see what the Planning Departments deem appropriate.