Robbored Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 Now that almost all the players are fully fit there had been an interesting new development in the last two games with Johnson now employing 'squad rotation'. I must admit that I was a tad surprised to hear Johnson explain his three changes on Tuesday as 'rotation' adding that all the players understood the system and whats going on interms of selection. He used the same explanation yesterday. It not something that I've heard in relation to City but obviously teams like Chelsea and Liverpool are well known for it. One or two things confuse me a little. It seems that 'rotation' applies mainly to the midfielders. Orr and McAllister are rubbered stamped when fit as is Maynard. The defense has also been subjected to 'rotation' but less so with Carey being rested on Tuesday. Johnson talks about players staying as fresh as possible and to avoid getting too 'leggy'. Fair comment of course but Orr, McAllister and Maynard don't get the same amount of rest as the others and the full backs in particular cover acres of ground particularly in a 3-5-2. Do these three get worked less hard in training? The players may understand the system but do they like it? Playing every other game would surely effect form and consistency? Players have a good game and then are rested for the next match -Hartley yesterday for example. What does that do for morale? What do others think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfcbs20 Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 i think it shows how far we have come as a club for me you need a settled back three/four even the top sides pretty much leave the defence alone the midfield is different because that's where the most energy is needed so to be able to change it around and rest players like hartley and a in form skuse and still dominate at a place like barnsley and get 3 points shows how strong we are and if are strikers aren't doing the business upfront we have just as strong options all of them can play at this level at the minute maynard is bang in form and haynes hasnt done anything to make gj drop him but if there was a drop in form or they need a rest we have saborio, clarkson and akinde to come in good times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purescience Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 I think it should only be used when we have a mid week game, and perhaps in the run up to playing one of the top teams. I'm happy for him to do it so long as it serves a purpose, not just doing it because we can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redhyde Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 I don't think it's roatation, it's resting players who need it from a period of 3 games in 7 days. Rotation implies it's something new and long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 Now that almost all the players are fully fit there had been an interesting new development in the last two games with Johnson now employing 'squad rotation'. I must admit that I was a tad surprised to hear Johnson explain his three changes on Tuesday as 'rotation' adding that all the players understood the system and whats going on interms of selection. He used the same explanation yesterday. It not something that I've heard in relation to City but obviously teams like Chelsea and Liverpool are well known for it. One or two things confuse me a little. It seems that 'rotation' applies mainly to the midfielders. Orr and McAllister are rubbered stamped when fit as is Maynard. The defense has also been subjected to 'rotation' but less so with Carey being rested on Tuesday. Johnson talks about players staying as fresh as possible and to avoid getting too 'leggy'. Fair comment of course but Orr, McAllister and Maynard don't get the same amount of rest as the others and the full backs in particular cover acres of ground particularly in a 3-5-2. Do these three get worked less hard in training? The players may understand the system but do they like it? Playing every other game would surely effect form and consistency? Players have a good game and then are rested for the next match -Hartley yesterday for example. What does that do for morale? What do others think? I get where your coming from, my take is Carey, Hartley are older players and as such take longer to recover especially from injuries and as we know Carey has had his fair share of injuries in recent seasons and perhaps GJ thinks 2 games per week might be pushing it especially with Hartleys international commitments or are they carrying niggling injuries, either way something he would'nt want advertised. Williams as we know can be injury prone which is unfortunate. Morale is a good point, however for my money morale has never been higher than it is now only in old first division and Terry Cooper era was it like this and as we know GJ will not allow individuals to spoil that. Also with Scotland now out of the world cup perhaps Hartley may retire from the international scene to lengthen his club career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 Ryan Giggs is a good example of a player who's had an extended career at the highest level because his manager has looked after him. Giggs has struggled with his hamstrings throughout his career and rarely plays twice in a week. His manager recognises this and rests him as and when necessary to get the best out of him over a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 I really dislike squad rotation and don't think it is necessary. We are not so good that we can afford to play a XI that isn't our strongest. Players like Hartley and Carey will occasionally need a rest, but that is not the same as rotating the squad. I see no reason to be rotating the players under 30, just pick the best ones, let the ones who have been playing well keep the shirt until they have a run of bad form. We aren't in the Champions League and despite having 6 central midfielders our squad isn't actually that big. Most importantly, let partnerships develop between the players who are our future - those like Maynard and Haynes, Skuse and Elliott, Nyatanga and Fontaine for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted October 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 Ryan Giggs is a good example of a player who's had an extended career at the highest level because his manager has looked after him. Giggs has struggled with his hamstrings throughout his career and rarely plays twice in a week. His manager recognises this and rests him as and when necessary to get the best out of him over a season. Giggs is 36 in November, 3 years older than Hartley and 4 years older than Carey, City's two oldest players. Plus he has well over 600 games under belt for United and Wales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 Giggs is 36 in November, 3 years older than Hartley and 4 years older than Carey, City's two oldest players. Plus he has well over 600 games under belt for United and Wales. Yeah, you missed the bit where I said it's something he's struggled with for the whole of his career, and the only reason he's still playing is because his manager knows him and protects him from his injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 Giggs is 36 in November, 3 years older than Hartley and 4 years older than Carey, City's two oldest players. Plus he has well over 600 games under belt for United and Wales. Yes 600 games over 20 years or so and for a team who regularly play more than 60 games per season + Wales games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfcbs20 Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 I really dislike squad rotation and don't think it is necessary. We are not so good that we can afford to play a XI that isn't our strongest. Players like Hartley and Carey will occasionally need a rest, but that is not the same as rotating the squad. I see no reason to be rotating the players under 30, just pick the best ones, let the ones who have been playing well keep the shirt until they have a run of bad form. We aren't in the Champions League and despite having 6 central midfielders our squad isn't actually that big. Most importantly, let partnerships develop between the players who are our future - those like Maynard and Haynes, Skuse and Elliott, Nyatanga and Fontaine for example. you can look at it from another view aswell is you continue to play the same players and formation throughout the season you will get found out you need to change things around and with the strength in deph we can without it weakening us to much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wookey Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 I was amused to see the tip toeing around the term 'rotation'. LJ had a typically inept series of performances which culminated after Peterborough with such a public outcry that even his Father couldn't keep him in the team and the team, without him, we played far better against Plymouth. On the basis of this recent evidence there is little chance of Lee J getting back in the Team so his Dad discovers the term 'rotation' and lo and behold Lee J is popped back in the team at the expense of far better players. Oh! and by the way, 'rotation' only applies to the midfield. What a surprise!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 you can look at it from another view aswell is you continue to play the same players and formation throughout the season you will get found out you need to change things around and with the strength in deph we can without it weakening us to much Disagree really, plenty of successful sides have played the same formation and same first XI (when able) for a season. If you're working hard, well organised and you've got quality getting found out doesn't really happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 I was amused to see the tip toeing around the term 'rotation'. LJ had a typically inept series of performances which culminated after Peterborough with such a public outcry that even his Father couldn't keep him in the team and the team, without him, we played far better against Plymouth. On the basis of this recent evidence there is little chance of Lee J getting back in the Team so his Dad discovers the term 'rotation' and lo and behold Lee J is popped back in the team at the expense of far better players. Oh! and by the way, 'rotation' only applies to the midfield. What a surprise!! I thought Saborio and Carey were two players rotated in the last two games - A striker and a central defender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfcbs20 Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 Disagree really, plenty of successful sides have played the same formation and same first XI (when able) for a season. If you're working hard, well organised and you've got quality getting found out doesn't really happen. if we had the strength in deph the season we got to the play off final we could of gone up automatically we looked stale and ran out of ideas in the final couple of months and if we could of changed the midfield and attack who knows what would of happened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaverface Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 Thing is, if we do persist with squad rotation, then whenever there are 2 or 3 injuries/suspensions, we cannot use that as an excuse for under-performing, as the players who aren't injured should be upto speed fitness-wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 if we had the strength in deph the season we got to the play off final we could of gone up automatically we looked stale and ran out of ideas in the final couple of months and if we could of changed the midfield and attack who knows what would of happened It wasn't the lack of rotation that stopped us going up automatically it was not scoring goals because we lacked a forward and some creativity. Our squad is overstaffed down the centre, and dramatically understaffed out wide. Rotation doesn't fix that or give us more ideas it just stops players settling down in key areas and forming partnerships. The solution is to move on some central players and bring in some wide ones so we have a better balance. We have switched formation on whims god knows how many times this season and only one of them has really given us goals... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 I think the only real reason we haven't seen squad rotation before is we simply have never had a big enough or good enough squad to warrant it, This one has 5-6 top quality central midfielders, 4 decent strikers, 3-4(depending on your rating of Mccombe) solid centre backs and 3 top class keepers. Not only is it now possible(and important) for us to rotate the players but also the formations. we have all the "clubs in the bag" now, able to choose the preferable formation to defeat any side in the division. The fact that GJ can now justifiably use language like "rotation" is surely a sign of improving times at AG? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chaplain Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 I was amused to see the tip toeing around the term 'rotation'. LJ had a typically inept series of performances which culminated after Peterborough with such a public outcry that even his Father couldn't keep him in the team and the team, without him, we played far better against Plymouth. On the basis of this recent evidence there is little chance of Lee J getting back in the Team so his Dad discovers the term 'rotation' and lo and behold Lee J is popped back in the team at the expense of far better players. Oh! and by the way, 'rotation' only applies to the midfield. What a surprise!! Oh dear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnowleUtd City Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 Nah, it's to do with GJ accomadating all of the CM we have, and trying to get his boy a game. We have a squad full of quality players, but unfortunately, most of them play in the same postition (not wide) COME ON YOU REDS!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 Nah, it's to do with GJ accomadating all of the CM we have, and trying to get his boy a game. We have a squad full of quality players, but unfortunately, most of them play in the same postition (not wide) COME ON YOU REDS!! I love sarcasm me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted October 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 Nibor hit the nail on the head when pointing out City being overstaffed in the midfield and short of options out wide. Rotation does seem to apply mainly to the plethora of midfielders City have. Maybe the signing couple of wide men and a left full back in the January window would enable Johnson to rotate the whole squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 Now that almost all the players are fully fit there had been an interesting new development in the last two games with Johnson now employing 'squad rotation'. I must admit that I was a tad surprised to hear Johnson explain his three changes on Tuesday as 'rotation' adding that all the players understood the system and whats going on interms of selection. He used the same explanation yesterday. It not something that I've heard in relation to City but obviously teams like Chelsea and Liverpool are well known for it. One or two things confuse me a little. It seems that 'rotation' applies mainly to the midfielders. Orr and McAllister are rubbered stamped when fit as is Maynard. The defense has also been subjected to 'rotation' but less so with Carey being rested on Tuesday. Johnson talks about players staying as fresh as possible and to avoid getting too 'leggy'. Fair comment of course but Orr, McAllister and Maynard don't get the same amount of rest as the others and the full backs in particular cover acres of ground particularly in a 3-5-2. Do these three get worked less hard in training? The players may understand the system but do they like it? Playing every other game would surely effect form and consistency? Players have a good game and then are rested for the next match -Hartley yesterday for example. What does that do for morale? What do others think? Currently you would have to say it is working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnowleUtd City Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 I love sarcasm me. Nothing to do with sarcasm handsome, I was well chuffed with the win yesterday, but we still have a situation where the manager doesn't know his best team or formation, squad rotation my a$$, we hve too many central players, have you ever known a Championship sqaud with not one player on the books who can play left midfield! ha. lets hope that this league is so poor that we get away with it and still challenge at the end of the season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse With No Name Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 Oh dear But it's true. Lat's see how long it takes for LJ to get rotated out of the team., or will we suddenly keep faith in a winning team. Anyone who can't see what is going on is blind, or just don't want to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted October 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 Currently you would have to say it is working. After two games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted October 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 But it's true. Lat's see how long it takes for LJ to get rotated out of the team., or will we suddenly keep faith in a winning team. Anyone who can't see what is going on is blind, or just don't want to see it. I'll bet most fans thought the same thing but just haven't posted it. We've had more than enough nepotism posts on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 After two games? 2 wins no? i thought, however, he had been doing this rotation longer than that but i may be wrong. Either way same answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted October 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 2 wins no? i thought, however, he had been doing this rotation longer than that but i may be wrong. Either way same answer. Not enough games to judge by. City may of won both games without any rotation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 Not enough games to judge by. City may of won both games without any rotation. Oh for goodness sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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