freezer Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Or everyone realised you were dressing up a series of statements as a series of questions for whatever reason and couldn't be bothered to reply to you? Or like me, no-one has any idea how team selection will be carried out either and aren't too concerned about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolcitysweden Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Or like me, no-one has any idea how team selection will be carried out either and aren't too concerned about it. I think it's like watching a washing machine (English word? womens vocabulary) Not very much happening for a good hour then it starts centrifuge and you get dizzy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Ian M Posted October 27, 2009 Admin Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Or like me, no-one has any idea how team selection will be carried out either and aren't too concerned about it. So not even fans who watch the team every week know how we'll line up or who'll be involved. Imagine being an opposition manager trying to prepare against us... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolcitysweden Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 So not even fans who watch the team every week know how we'll line up or who'll be involved. Imagine being an opposition manager trying to prepare against us... I'm sure they are scared to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freezer Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 So not even fans who watch the team every week know how we'll line up or who'll be involved. Imagine being an opposition manager trying to prepare against us... Is that a good thing? Personally, I'd like to see our best players played in their best positions and most fans I know want the same... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted October 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Personally, I'd like to see our best players played in their best positions and most fans I know want the same... Thats right - but 'rotating' the squad suggests very clearly that Johnson doesn't know who his best players are. Except of course Maynard. By choping and changing he must think that they are all of the same ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Thats right - but 'rotating' the squad suggests very clearly that Johnson doesn't know who his best players are. Except of course Maynard. By choping and changing he must think that they are all of the same ability. Or he thinks that the season ends in May, not in November, and he wants to keep his squad as fit and fresh as possible, without compromising results, for the entire season, so has to juggle team selection with that bigger picture in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Thats right - but 'rotating' the squad suggests very clearly that Johnson doesn't know who his best players are. Except of course Maynard. By choping and changing he must think that they are all of the same ability. Or maybe his best two players, Hartley & Carey are coming to the end of their careers and he wants to a) prolong their careers b) and get the most from them in the games they play.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderSomerset Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Or maybe his best two players, Hartley & Carey are coming to the end of their careers and he wants to a) prolong their careers b) and get the most from them in the games they play.... I can see the sense in resting Carey & Hartley from time to time, but cant see how Skuse needs a rest at his age, especially considering he has been our best midfielder so far this season IMO... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westy Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 it's bs to say hartley needs resting - it's the oposite like adebola and trundle they need games to get / keep fit not get cold on the sidelines. youngsters get up at 6 at go for a run 30 year old rely on class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 I can see the sense in resting Carey & Hartley from time to time, but cant see how Skuse needs a rest at his age, especially considering he has been our best midfielder so far this season IMO... Apparently Skuse had a knock it's bs to say hartley needs resting - it's the oposite like adebola and trundle they need games to get / keep fit not get cold on the sidelines. youngsters get up at 6 at go for a run 30 year old rely on class need games? yeah when they've been out for ages. Adebola was average for us, until johnson started giving him a rest here and there... Wolves at home?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megansdad Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Or he thinks that the season ends in May, not in November, and he wants to keep his squad as fit and fresh as possible, without compromising results, for the entire season, so has to juggle team selection with that bigger picture in mind. Edson this seems so obviously the case that I am surprised people have to be told. Perhaps given your clarity above this may lead people out of the darkness and into the light! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted October 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Or he thinks that the season ends in May, not in November, and he wants to keep his squad as fit and fresh as possible, without compromising results, for the entire season, so has to juggle team selection with that bigger picture in mind. Sure, that to. But even so Johnson must feel that his midfielders in particular are of equal ability. Therefore he doesn't know who his best players are - particulary in midfield. He wouldn't put out a weakened team by playing a less talented player or two. Therefore, he must feel that leaving out Hartley, Elliot, Skuse or Lee Johnson doesn't diminish the strength of the team. Some fans would agree that chopping and changing doesn't effect the strength team and others wouldn't agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bully Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Sure, that to. But even so Johnson must feel that his midfielders in particular are of equal ability. Therefore he doesn't know who his best players are - particulary in midfield. He wouldn't put out a weakened team by playing a less talented player or two. Therefore, he must feel that leaving out Hartley, Elliot, Skuse or Lee Johnson doesn't diminish the strength of the team. Some fans would agree that chopping and changing doesn't effect the strength team and others wouldn't agree. In theory you're right, although i'm pretty sure GJ knows that the team minus Hartley can't be as effective. In fact, it could be argued that his defensive capabilities, leadership and ability to pass could be better employed in the usually tighter away games. Rotation works for the really strong Prem sides who know their reserves (because they DO know who their best players are) are still better than the opposition they come up against. I'm not sure that's the case with us but time will tell - in fact it will be interesting to see if any genuine rotation takes place this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Rotation works for the really strong Prem sides who know their reserves And we are a really strong Championship side.... whats the difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bully Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 And we are a really strong Championship side.... whats the difference Riaz come on! We are a good well established Championship side - to be really strong you'd be well ahead of nearly everyone else, and we aren't that - so few points separate much of the table so maybe teams are very well matched. That to me, makes it risky to rotate in league matches. All well and good to have fit bodies in April but no use at all if you're mid table by then. Chelsea/ManU/Liverpool/Arsenal can put out reserve sides that will beat mid table prem sides or CCC teams in cups because they are full of internationals or youngsters who are in demand by other prem sides. We couldn't beat Carlisle. That's the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Riaz come on! We are a good well established Championship side - to be really strong you'd be well ahead of nearly everyone else, and we aren't that - so few points separate much of the table so maybe teams are very well matched. That to me, makes it risky to rotate in league matches. All well and good to have fit bodies in April but no use at all if you're mid table by then. Chelsea/ManU/Liverpool/Arsenal can put out reserve sides that will beat mid table prem sides or CCC teams in cups because they are full of internationals or youngsters who are in demand by other prem sides. We couldn't beat Carlisle. That's the difference. We're consistently in the top half and mainly top 6. To me we are a really strong championship side.... I think this season, we are have a very strong squad (wide positions not included) and I'm confident that whoever plays will do well. But I suppose, time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Sure, that to. But even so Johnson must feel that his midfielders in particular are of equal ability. Therefore he doesn't know who his best players are - particulary in midfield. He wouldn't put out a weakened team by playing a less talented player or two. Therefore, he must feel that leaving out Hartley, Elliot, Skuse or Lee Johnson doesn't diminish the strength of the team. Some fans would agree that chopping and changing doesn't effect the strength team and others wouldn't agree. Of similar ability, not equal ability. Your conclusion that he doesn't know who his best players are is plain bizarre, given you've acknowledged that the manager is resting and protecting players for the rigours of a long season, but I guess it's just another little dig. In a perfect world, do you honestly think Gary Johnson wouldn't play Hartley and Carey in every single game for 90 minutes at the peak of their fitness and form? Of course he would. But we don't live in a perfect world. Players get tired both mentally and physically, players get knocks that mean they're OK to play but it would be preferable to rest them if possible, players have dips in form - that's why you have a squad. You appear to be advocating playing the same eleven every week until they get injured. Which, in fairness, they would do if you flogged them as you seem to be suggesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Of similar ability, not equal ability. Your conclusion that he doesn't know who his best players are is plain bizarre, given you've acknowledged that the manager is resting and protecting players for the rigours of a long season, but I guess it's just another little dig. In a perfect world, do you honestly think Gary Johnson wouldn't play Hartley and Carey in every single game for 90 minutes at the peak of their fitness and form? Of course he would. But we don't live in a perfect world. Players get tired both mentally and physically, players get knocks that mean they're OK to play but it would be preferable to rest them if possible, players have dips in form - that's why you have a squad. You appear to be advocating playing the same eleven every week until they get injured. Which, in fairness, they would do if you flogged them as you seem to be suggesting. As I mentioned on the other thread - for me there is a big difference between resting Hartley and Carey as veterans who usually play 30 games a season not 46 - and rotating out Cole Skuse after one of the best performances of his career. The latter is entirely unnecessary IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 As I mentioned on the other thread - for me there is a big difference between resting Hartley and Carey as veterans who usually play 30 games a season not 46 - and rotating out Cole Skuse after one of the best performances of his career. The latter is entirely unnecessary IMO. Unless he was carrying a little niggle that would benefit from a rest if possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Unless he was carrying a little niggle that would benefit from a rest if possible? For me, resting a player with a niggle and rotation are different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 As I mentioned on the other thread - for me there is a big difference between resting Hartley and Carey as veterans who usually play 30 games a season not 46 - and rotating out Cole Skuse after one of the best performances of his career. The latter is entirely unnecessary IMO. Unnecesary on the face of it, but we don't know the background to it. Gary Johnson doesn't appear to be the sort of manager to do things without good reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 For me, resting a player with a niggle and rotation are different things. Adam Baker did state on Radio Bristol, that Cole Skuse was rested - apparently was in the treatment room for over a hour after the plymouth game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 For me, resting a player with a niggle and rotation are different things. Yes, to a degree they are. But last season, when we had fewer options, Skuse may well have played through a minor knock and paid the price from the cumulative effects of doing that. This season, we have more strength in that area, so a player can be protected more from aggravating a minor knock into something more serious. Of course, he came on anyway, due to the Orr injury. But I'm sure, ideally, GJ wouldn't have wanted him to have that many match minutes last Saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 My opinion is that Cole Skuse has only ever played to his ability in flashes and this is the first season he's shown sustained form so I'd have kept him in the side and wanted him to get as many minutes as possible, even with a niggle. I think rotation is a particularly bad thing when a player is starting to show consistency. I also don't think rotation is necessary in general for players not over 30 in our squad and is detrimental to trying to build consistent performances. Nobody in our squad is going to be eligible to play 65 competitive games like international players in Champions League sides, and we don't have the sort of quality in depth where we can afford to leave our stronger players on the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted October 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Of similar ability, not equal ability. Your conclusion that he doesn't know who his best players are is plain bizarre, given you've acknowledged that the manager is resting and protecting players for the rigours of a long season, but I guess it's just another little dig. The point which you deliberately miss is that GJ has no worries about 'rotating' the midfeild in particular which suggests he has the same level of faith in the players individual abilities. If he had one player that was obviously better than the others he wouldn't leave him him out, but he doesn't have such a player so doesn't know who his best midfielder is. Maynard starts every week beacuse he's the best striker which obviously Johnson knows. In a perfect world, do you honestly think Gary Johnson wouldn't play Hartley and Carey in every single game for 90 minutes at the peak of their fitness and form? Of course he would. But we don't live in a perfect world. Players get tired both mentally and physically, players get knocks that mean they're OK to play but it would be preferable to rest them if possible, players have dips in form - that's why you have a squad. I'll bet if you asked either player they would be insulted that they are considered 'eldery' in footbballer terms. Both would want to play every week if selected. Having niggles or knocks is diffrent of course and if options are availble then rest them by all means. You appear to be advocating playing the same eleven every week until they get injured. Which, in fairness, they would do if you flogged them as you seem to be suggesting. I'm not suggesting that at all. Play your best 11 each week is what I advocate. I don't see the benefit of resting a fully fit player especially if they ahve been performing well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 The point which you deliberately miss is that GJ has no worries about 'rotating' the midfeild in particular which suggests he has the same level of faith in the players individual abilities. If he had one player that was obviously better than the others he wouldn't leave him him out, but he doesn't have such a player so doesn't know who his best midfielder is. Maynard starts every week beacuse he's the best striker which obviously Johnson knows. I've already covered this point and haven't missed your point. Gary Johnson may well have worries about leaving Hartley out, but realises it's necessary for the good of the entire campaign. Gary even refers to that in his post-match interview. "We know that we had a little dicky spell this time last year when we didn't quite have the squad. Now we've got the squad we can go into November/December using the squad, and hopefully they'll all have their legs about them for every game, especially when you've got to play two or three games a week, as we'll have to do very soon. So we're gtting used to doing that and the boys are getting used to it. They're all up for it and they all understand it." I'll bet if you asked either player they would be insulted that they are considered 'eldery' in footbballer terms. Both would want to play every week if selected. Having niggles or knocks is diffrent of course and if options are availble then rest them by all means. Whether they're insulted or not, that's the reality and they'll know that. Of course they'd want to play every week. I'd be disappointed if they didn't. But it's part of a manager's job to protect players from themselves at times and ensure he maximises their input to the team over a season, nut just up to Christmas. I'm not suggesting that at all. Play your best 11 each week is what I advocate. I don't see the benefit of resting a fully fit player especially if they ahve been performing well. The benefit is, our squad will be fresher throughout the season than in previous years and those players will bring more to the team over 46 games than just over-playing them in the short term would.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sodburyred Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 As to talking about their age.. Didn't Burnley have a player who played every minuate of every game last season who was in his late 30s?? and they did do very well in both cups aswell. Hartley looks nackerd after 70mins but id rather he played some part in all of our league games. Instead of warming the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Johnson has obviously looked at the last two campaigns where we have fizzled out.... He has built a very good squad - and I suspect he is rotating now, so that in the run in, our better players will be fit & firing. If this rotating malarky means that Louis Carey and Paul Hartley are fit for the run, then I'm all for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted October 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 The benefit is, our squad will be fresher throughout the season than in previous years and those players will bring more to the team over 46 games than just over-playing them in the short term would.. I agree with that as long as rotation does not weaken the team in any way (that of course is a different deabate altogether). Psycholgically - which a concept that Johnson say he's a fan of - GJ has to be carefull about how players react to being 'rested' every other game. Some, like Elliot will react positively but others may react differently and feel aggrieved that no matter how well they play one game they are likely to be 'rested' the next. It could be difficult for some players to remain upbeat as playing well and being selected for the next game is their motivation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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