Not Had Squad Rotation Before.

[CiderSomerset]

I know! Just having a bit of a light hearted jest.

Is it April 1st already then???

[Geoff65]

A few observations:

GJ thinks he's being clever in front of the camera and often it backfires - in the past he says (paraphrasing) "I dont like to make many changes when the side is doing well", he then says "rotation within our squad", if he had just said "the team I picked today was what I think is the best way of beating Barnsley" then we might have had the same discussion as to why he isnt sticking with "not making many changes" but we wouldnt be talking about all of this rotation malarkey.

Remember when he said "I dont like to sign players over 30" and then has to answer why Trundle, Adebola, Stern John, Hartley and Velicka all were signed despite being over 30 - what I'm getting at here is that he makes statements in front of camera and then has to back track at later stages.

As to the rotation debate:

Do the best teams rotate their best players? Answer is yes but do the best teams rotate their leaders? Gerrard, Roy Keane, Lampard etc... yet we rotate Carey and Hartley? It's just ******* madness to rotate those two because they organise and get the most out of the players around them - Hartley in midfield - our midfield play as a unit - not 4 talented players trying to do our best, back 4 with McCombe and not Carey = nervous/edgy defence - you know the difference that those two make to the respective units and those two should be in the team not only as they are the best or equally as good as anyone else that plays their position but they bring their leadership skills to the fore - name me one other on pitch leader - I dont think we have anyone.

Rotation of older players: Doesnt wash with me at all - Burnley's 37 yr old Graham Alexander played all their matches last season. August - 6 matches, September - 5 matches, October - 5 matches and as we enter November we talk of rotation and we have 3 matches - I bet GJ wishes he never used the words rotation.

Rotation of players that GJ likes: It's ok for GJ to rotate the midfield but not wing backs - there were some pretty awful displays by our wing backs this season but did you ever for once think that Ribierio and Blackman was ever going to be replacing our incumbents? I think not, he moaned when Ribierio came back with a groin strain after a Wales U21 match and says he has to take it easy after recovering from knee surgery - you cant moan about the lad getting an injury in a competitve match when was the last time he had the opportunity in a City shirt to play in a competitive match - even when the player you're in competition with is not performing you still dont get the rotation into the first team. This leads me on to his loyalty/belief in certain players, for me he places too much faith in players that shouldnt be in the forst team and some might agree shouldnt be at the club - Sproule, B.Wilson (injured again),G Williams and McCombe - he shows his faith in McCombe by letting him play in a back 4 that doesnt include Carey - other than that I think McCombe is a good player to have in the squad but I think that Fontaine, Nyatanga and Carey should all start in front of him. Sproule and B.Wilson - neither are first team players and would be better off on loan, G Williams - a good squad player but doesnt for me start in front of Sno,Elliott,LJ,Skuse or Hartley but can against a tiring midfield make a difference. That leads me onto LJ and quite frankly he has had some decent performances in the last few games but not enough to be in front of Sno Elliott Skuse and Hartley, I think he is too light weight in a midfield four and is 5th choice in a 3 man midfield. I dont think it's nepotism, I think GJ is just too loyal to some of his players B Wilson/Sproule - the ones I mentioned above.

I bet Clarkson is loving this rotation, I mean he can play just behind the strikers as a link up man and did so at the start of the season but probably considers himself 6th or 7th choice for that position and he can play up front where he is 4th choice. And that's the problem with this rotation crap that GJ talks about is that players who are 2nd choice (Ribierio) or 4th choice (Akinde/Clarkson) dont get a look in but a 5th choice midfielder gets the benefit of rotation.

As said I bet GJ wishes he never said rotation or I dont like signing players over 30.

[westy]

A few observations:

GJ thinks he's being clever in front of the camera and often it backfires - in the past he says (paraphrasing) "I dont like to make many changes when the side is doing well", he then says "rotation within our squad", if he had just said "the team I picked today was what I think is the best way of beating Barnsley" then we might have had the same discussion as to why he isnt sticking with "not making many changes" but we wouldnt be talking about all of this rotation malarkey.

Remember when he said "I dont like to sign players over 30" and then has to answer why Trundle, Adebola, Stern John, Hartley and Velicka all were signed despite being over 30 - what I'm getting at here is that he makes statements in front of camera and then has to back track at later stages.

As to the rotation debate:

Do the best teams rotate their best players? Answer is yes but do the best teams rotate their leaders? Gerrard, Roy Keane, Lampard etc... yet we rotate Carey and Hartley? It's just ******* madness to rotate those two because they organise and get the most out of the players around them - Hartley in midfield - our midfield play as a unit - not 4 talented players trying to do our best, back 4 with McCombe and not Carey = nervous/edgy defence - you know the difference that those two make to the respective units and those two should be in the team not only as they are the best or equally as good as anyone else that plays their position but they bring their leadership skills to the fore - name me one other on pitch leader - I dont think we have anyone.

Rotation of older players: Doesnt wash with me at all - Burnley's 37 yr old Graham Alexander played all their matches last season. August - 6 matches, September - 5 matches, October - 5 matches and as we enter November we talk of rotation and we have 3 matches - I bet GJ wishes he never used the words rotation.

Rotation of players that GJ likes: It's ok for GJ to rotate the midfield but not wing backs - there were some pretty awful displays by our wing backs this season but did you ever for once think that Ribierio and Blackman was ever going to be replacing our incumbents? I think not, he moaned when Ribierio came back with a groin strain after a Wales U21 match and says he has to take it easy after recovering from knee surgery - you cant moan about the lad getting an injury in a competitve match when was the last time he had the opportunity in a City shirt to play in a competitive match - even when the player you're in competition with is not performing you still dont get the rotation into the first team. This leads me on to his loyalty/belief in certain players, for me he places too much faith in players that shouldnt be in the forst team and some might agree shouldnt be at the club - Sproule, B.Wilson (injured again),G Williams and McCombe - he shows his faith in McCombe by letting him play in a back 4 that doesnt include Carey - other than that I think McCombe is a good player to have in the squad but I think that Fontaine, Nyatanga and Carey should all start in front of him. Sproule and B.Wilson - neither are first team players and would be better off on loan, G Williams - a good squad player but doesnt for me start in front of Sno,Elliott,LJ,Skuse or Hartley but can against a tiring midfield make a difference. That leads me onto LJ and quite frankly he has had some decent performances in the last few games but not enough to be in front of Sno Elliott Skuse and Hartley, I think he is too light weight in a midfield four and is 5th choice in a 3 man midfield. I dont think it's nepotism, I think GJ is just too loyal to some of his players B Wilson/Sproule - the ones I mentioned above.

I bet Clarkson is loving this rotation, I mean he can play just behind the strikers as a link up man and did so at the start of the season but probably considers himself 6th or 7th choice for that position and he can play up front where he is 4th choice. And that's the problem with this rotation crap that GJ talks about is that players who are 2nd choice (Ribierio) or 4th choice (Akinde/Clarkson) dont get a look in but a 5th choice midfielder gets the benefit of rotation.

As said I bet GJ wishes he never said rotation or I dont like signing players over 30.

good post - the core of the team shouldn't change and this is sort of what robbored was trying to say earlier if it's not a conspiracy then GJ doesn't know what his best team / midfield is

[downendcity]

Is there a danger that this thread about rotation will just go round in circles?

[Robbored]

good post - the core of the team shouldn't change and this is sort of what robbored was trying to say earlier if it's not a conspiracy then GJ doesn't know what his best team / midfield is

Indeed, but then I'm a supposed 'Johnson hater' and therefore my opinions about anything GJ related are disregarded by some. Fortunately not everyone shares that view.

I'm surprised Edson hasn't responded to Geoff65's views.

[Economou]

Indeed, but then I'm a supposed 'Johnson hater' and therefore my opinions about anything GJ related are disregarded by some. Fortunately not everyone shares that view.

I'm surprised Edson hasn't responded to Geoff65's views.

Probably because Edson, & others, have already have answered a lot of Geoff's views, maybe earlier in this thread & in others.

[mindjuicer]

the only reason GJ is rotating is either as robbored says GJ considers the midfielders to be of equal ability or one of the conspiracy theories

I would say he cannot distinguish from current form who is definitely going to play the best in the next game.

In addition...

Third possibility: Playing midfield for BCFC is completely knackering such that Sno isn't fit enough and Hartley can't play more than 3 games a fortnight. So some rotation is inevitable.

Fourth possibility: We finally have a decent midfield with lots of depth and GJ doesn't want any of the players to leave through lack of first team play.

Fifth possibility: All our midfielders have strengths and weaknesses. Assuming everyone's rested, the best midfield for one game won't necessarily be the best midfield for another game.

[edson]

Indeed, but then I'm a supposed 'Johnson hater' and therefore my opinions about anything GJ related are disregarded by some. Fortunately not everyone shares that view.

I'm surprised Edson hasn't responded to Geoff65's views.

You are a Johnson hater. I'm surprised you dare to deny it, to be honest.

I've made my points on this topic. I could repeat them ad nauseum, but I imagine I'd get some half-wit claiming I was Gary Johnson's minder or something, so I won't.

[bristolcitysweden]

I would say he cannot distinguish from current form who is definitely going to play the best in the next game.

In addition...

Third possibility: Playing midfield for BCFC is completely knackering such that Sno isn't fit enough and Hartley can't play more than 3 games a fortnight. So some rotation is inevitable.

Fourth possibility: We finally have a decent midfield with lots of depth and GJ doesn't want any of the players to leave through lack of first team play.

Fifth possibility: All our midfielders have strengths and weaknesses. Assuming everyone's rested, the best midfield for one game won't necessarily be the best midfield for another game.

In answer to your first question no one can. Hence there are no key answers once the game is played.

In my opinion you deeply overrate the value of the shift our midfielders put in. I expect each single player to be able to track back on pace and put in a decent tackle defending. You don't have to run miles. Alibi running doesn't count.

It's what happening when we are in possession of the ball that matters and this is about a gift. Hartley is different class and a key player to Bristol City. He also need games to gain some matchfitness and gel with his new teammates. Skuse and Elliott can rotate because they are equal standard but to play Hartley less than 4/5 of the games til the end of the season will definately weaken us.

[Robbored]

I don't believe this rotation nonsense, it's just another off the cuff remark from GJ but please don't leave out your best players, that means Carey, Hartley and Maynard should start every game.

Build the team around them - they are the spine of the team.

Quite agree. Hartley in particular when fit should start every game imo particularly when there is a whole week of recovery between matches.

Shame Johnson ever mentioned 'rotation' if he doesn't mean to use it consistently. Thats not fair on the players and would possibly cause morale difficulties in the squad.

[megansdad]

Quite agree. Hartley in particular when fit should start every game imo particularly when there is a whole week of recovery between matches.

Shame Johnson ever mentioned 'rotation' if he doesn't mean to use it consistently. Thats not fair on the players and would possibly cause morale difficulties in the squad.

Am sure GJ is quite capable of taking the dressing room with him - only a small minority of fans he seems to struggle with.

[Barneyredballs]

Just to throw this one in......

If Johnson is rested tomorrow and Hartley plays, could GJohnson rotate them for home/away games.......

Leaves few chances for LJ to get the usual stick.....

[Martyn Hocking]

EP website claims we will be unchanged tomorrow, Skuse for Orr being the only possible switch if Brad is not fit.

Well_red

[Robbored]

EP website claims we will be unchanged tomorrow, Skuse for Orr being the only possible switch if Brad is not fit.

The EP isn't excatly a reliable source so I won't put much faith in what they predict.

If by some lucky guess they are right, fans will be asking what ever happened to 'rotation'. It will look like its been abandoned after just two weeks.

[Martyn Hocking]

The EP isn't excatly a reliable source so I won't put much faith in what they predict.

If by some lucky guess they are right, fans will be asking what ever happened to 'rotation'. It will look like its been abandoned after just two weeks.

Well they were spot on with the Sainsburys ground purchase and Gerken arrest stories, reporting both well before the club was willing to tell fans what was going on.

That said, all managers play games with the press to conceal team selections from rival managers - check the predicted Prem teams in the Telegraph on a Saturday morning and they are invariably wrong.

Whether Hartley plays or not, we should have too much quality for a struggling Wednesday side.

Well_red

[megansdad]

The EP isn't excatly a reliable source so I won't put much faith in what they predict.

If by some lucky guess they are right, fans will be asking what ever happened to 'rotation'. It will look like its been abandoned after just two weeks.

suggest you listen to the GJ interview on world where he gives a pretty full account and could easily be talking directly to you............

[Nibor]

If Hartley is fit and doesn't start I will be shocked.

[megansdad]

would start with Hartley myself but equally happy if GJ decides to stick with the winning team from last weekend. Either way think we should win.

[Nibor]

would start with Hartley myself but equally happy if GJ decides to stick with the winning team from last weekend. Either way think we should win.

I won't be happy, we had a winning team the game before and we dropped our two best midfielders for no reason other than "rotation", it would be really shit to leave them out again.

[BCFC_Dan]

Shame Johnson ever mentioned 'rotation' if he doesn't mean to use it consistently. Thats not fair on the players and would possibly cause morale difficulties in the squad.

So because he mentioned the idea of rotation once he should now be forced to rotate the squad every week?

Can it really not be as simple as the manager picking the most appropriate team for each game as he sees it? If certain players could do with a rest, he can 'rotate' them, if others have done nothing wrong he can retain them. He's proved himself to be consistently very good at picking the right teams to win games (you can keep assuming you can do better if you like, but his record in terms of pure numbers is very good) and he's shown that he knows how to keep players happy and motivated.

[Robbored]

suggest you listen to the GJ interview on world where he gives a pretty full account and could easily be talking directly to you............

Just listened to it at it seems that we only have 'rotation' when City have games sat,tues, sat. Thats cleared that up then.

If players do well then they will stay in the team and as City did well last week and Hartley didn't play looks as if he won't start tomorrow.

I hope that City win tomorrow because if they draw or lose without a fit and available Hartley, Johnson will be in for some serious critism.

[Guest]

Johnson will be in for some serious critism.

You'll be dancing in delight with anticipation of creating the first thread of doom no doubt.

P.S You've dodged about 29'393'038 posts where people put it to you that:

YOU DONT LIKE GARY JOHNSON

So why don't you just

ADMIT IT

Then people will stop trying to get you to say just that over the course of about 25 pages...

[freezer]

Just listened to it at it seems that we only have 'rotation' when City have games sat,tues, sat. Thats cleared that up then.

If players do well then they will stay in the team and as City did well last week and Hartley didn't play looks as if he won't start tomorrow.

I hope that City win tomorrow because if they draw or lose without a fit and available Hartley, Johnson will be in for some serious critism.

If some supporters feel that the manager is not picking his best side, there will probably be some fan 'Rotation' going on - especially if results and performances are not good - with people choosing to vote with their feet.

[Robbored]

P.S You've dodged about 29'393'038 posts where people put it to you that you:

DONT LIKE GARY JOHNSON

So why don't you just

ADMIT IT FOR ONCE AND WE CAN ALL MOVE ON

No need to shout Tom.

I haven't answered because they are a) statements not questions b) not true.

People only write such stuff to devalue and dismiss my views when they (god forbid) question virtually anything that Johnson does. There are those who simply worship the ground GJ walks on and they hate any critism or questioning of his tactics, formations ect.. Blind faith in other words.

I don't like or dislike Johnson. He is the current manager of the football club that I love. There have been many before him and there will be many after him. I have critised many of his predecessors at times but also praised them when imo it was warrented. What I post on here about our current manager is pretty much the same sort of stuff I would have posted about previous managers.

If I really hated Johnson I'd be writing to the EP letter page and saying stuff like he doesn't live in Bristol...

People overlook the positive posts that I've made about Johnson.

[cheese]

Just listened to it at it seems that we only have 'rotation' when City have games sat,tues, sat. Thats cleared that up then.

If players do well then they will stay in the team and as City did well last week and Hartley didn't play looks as if he won't start tomorrow.

I hope that City win tomorrow because if they draw or lose without a fit and available Hartley, Johnson will be in for some serious critism.

Didn't realise that needed clearing up - it always seemed pretty obvious to me. And, even if Hartley were in the side tomorrow and we lost the GJ would get some serious criticsm from some quarters - so I don't see Hartley making much difference to that.

[greenun]

You'll be dancing in delight with anticipation of creating the first thread of doom no doubt.

P.S You've dodged about 29'393'038 posts where people put it to you that:

YOU DONT LIKE GARY JOHNSON

So why don't you just

ADMIT IT

Then people will stop trying to get you to say just that over the course of about 25 pages...

Tom, I can appreciate that you and other people don't agree with Robbored's forthright and honest opinions, but this thread is turning into a witch hunt.

Whatever happened to criticising the post and not the poster?

[Nibor]

Whatever happened to criticising the post and not the poster?

Sadly that has long been ignored on this forum. It would be nice to see mods enforce that again.

[bully]

I don't like or dislike Johnson. He is the current manager of the football club that I love. There have been many before him and there will be many after him. I have critised many of his predecessors at times but also praised them when imo it was warrented. What I post on here about our current manager is pretty much the same sort of stuff I would have posted about previous managers.

People overlook the positive posts that I've made about Johnson.

Agree with the comments above - what i've started noticing is that those who believe GJ can do no wrong are getting quite aggressive and personal from the safety of a keyboard.

There's really no need for it - those rare posters who don't have a reasoned argument possibly deserve an unreasonable reply from the brown nosers, neutrals or even those who don't think the sun shines out of GJ's arse, but I really don't get why you and Ashtonyate get pelters constantly simply because you don't toe the party line.

As for Edson - pretty juvenile calling you a Johnson hater - not what i'd expect from him to be honest..

[StapleHillPhil]

Tom, I can appreciate that you and other people don't agree with Robbored's forthright and honest opinions, but this thread is turning into a witch hunt.

But they're not forthright and honest are they? He's a wind up merchant who passes the time by coming on here with his alternative views in the hope that people will bite. All rather sad in my opinion.

[bully]

But they're not forthright and honest are they? He's a wind up merchant who passes the time by coming on here with his alternative views in the hope that people will bite. All rather sad in my opinion.

He has alternative views to you I presume, and you and others therefore regard him as a wind up merchant .

People should (as most do) counter any views they disagree with in a reasoned manner, but so far as Robbored is concerned, it does look like people are going over the top to be honest.