Millen Out

[glynriley]

Despite the justifiable post match anger, it's still too early. No manager worth their salt will come to a club that sacks a guy two games in, and people like Davies and Jones are very very expensive not just in terms of wages but in terms of budget.

IMO it is necessary to give it a bit longer and if it hasn't improved ten games in then start making plans, looking for someone like Tisdale on their way up rather than billy big bollocks managers used to huge budgets.

Anyway, Millen has learned from mistakes before, he may do so this time.

Not going to be a popular view today I suspect but the last thing we need is knee jerk reactions and sacking someone so close to the start of the season cannot be described as anything else.

Have to agree Nibor. I'm prepared to give him a chance to turn things around , but he's got to start making some brave decisions. Playing 4-3-3 with Pitman on the left is a joke. Pick the players to suit the formation , Woolford should be playing on the left in that side today. I'm a Pitman fan but he has to play through the middle in a 4-4-2.

I dont think Sexstone is man enough to make the decision anyway. After listening to his comments today about reducing the squad size I have to ask the question why he allowed KM to bring in Bolasie & Taylor. If he had any balls he would have told KM that the money available was to be used for strengthining the defence and not on more squad fillers. Yes they might be one's for the future but currently all they are is another 2 wage packets (and transfer fees) that are not in our matchday squad.

Bit angry at the moment so if this sounds out of order in anyway , apologies.

[Keepers Ball]

We have only played too games of the season. No reason too panic.

So as the staff and leadership stands what change can you see that'll improve 2 games 6 goals conceded?

[fka dagest]

Despite the justifiable post match anger, it's still too early. No manager worth their salt will come to a club that sacks a guy two games in, and people like Davies and Jones are very very expensive not just in terms of wages but in terms of budget.

IMO it is necessary to give it a bit longer and if it hasn't improved ten games in then start making plans, looking for someone like Tisdale on their way up rather than billy big bollocks managers used to huge budgets.

Anyway, Millen has learned from mistakes before, he may do so this time.

Not going to be a popular view today I suspect but the last thing we need is knee jerk reactions and sacking someone so close to the start of the season cannot be described as anything else.

You're probably right Nibor this won't be popular, but it's a good attempt at being level-headed. I guess the only issue I have with your post is that it isn't about 2 games. it's about the on-going long term problems. I believe they've been addressed in many other posts, which probably aren't too difficult to find.

[bangers]

The players aren't fighting for him.

We need a bigger name who will MOTIVATE.

Lee Clark from Huddersfield?

[Trowbridge BCFC]

It didnt do Norwich any harm getting rid of a manager after 1 game! Millen has had a full season now and there is no progression. If he was a pile of pooh, it strikes me that he couldnt attract flies! Come on City ACT NOW

[SJC]

Despite the justifiable post match anger, it's still too early. No manager worth their salt will come to a club that sacks a guy two games in, and people like Davies and Jones are very very expensive not just in terms of wages but in terms of budget.

IMO it is necessary to give it a bit longer and if it hasn't improved ten games in then start making plans, looking for someone like Tisdale on their way up rather than billy big bollocks managers used to huge budgets.

Not going to be a popular view today I suspect but the last thing we need is knee jerk reactions and sacking someone so close to the start of the season cannot be described as anything else.

Agree

Anyway, Millen has learned from mistakes before, he may do so this time.

What are you referencing here?

[Bris Red]

The players aren't fighting for him.

We need a bigger name who will MOTIVATE.

Lee Clark from Huddersfield?

Hell of a shout that is. As Nibor said a Tisdale or as you said Clarke type manager on there way up is exactly what we need. A manager with hunger who will accept he wont have a huge budget to play with for the time being.

Like Millen seems like alovely chap, but a lovely chap isn't what Bristol City needs at the moment. The players arn't playing for him its obvious and when that happens its time for a change.

[chinapig]

Interesting comment, I remember being really surprised GJ didn't bring his assistant with him from Yeovil.

It's hard to understand why KM has been such a constant at the club.

It seems likely it is because Steve likes him from what Keith himself has said about Steve telling him way back that he would be our manager one day. I imagine Johnson was told he had to keep Keith, though he also has praised him highly and recommended him for the job. Why he is so highly regarded I'm not sure; mI assume it is a combinaiton of highly qualified and nice guy, neither of which is a guarantee of success. But there is clearly no chance of him being sacked.

[Nogbad the Bad]

Despite the justifiable post match anger, it's still too early. No manager worth their salt will come to a club that sacks a guy two games in, and people like Davies and Jones are very very expensive not just in terms of wages but in terms of budget.

IMO it is necessary to give it a bit longer and if it hasn't improved ten games in then start making plans, looking for someone like Tisdale on their way up rather than billy big bollocks managers used to huge budgets.

Anyway, Millen has learned from mistakes before, he may do so this time.

Not going to be a popular view today I suspect but the last thing we need is knee jerk reactions and sacking someone so close to the start of the season cannot be described as anything else.

You've certainly calmed down after cussing KM's selection and formation before the game.

If he's still getting these basics so wrong one year in, why do you say he is learning from his mistakes?

[Nibor]

Understand your point of view, but if the board don't act (either by changing the manager or giving him funds to get some new players) can you honestly see anything changing by the 10 game mark?

This was said last season during our poor run after Coppell quit yet we did improve quite dramatically. It's hard to see where an improvement is coming from in a bad run but it does happen.

Have to agree Nibor. I'm prepared to give him a chance to turn things around , but he's got to start making some brave decisions. Playing 4-3-3 with Pitman on the left is a joke. Pick the players to suit the formation , Woolford should be playing on the left in that side today. I'm a Pitman fan but he has to play through the middle in a 4-4-2.

Totally, I don't get the obsession with 433, particularly with our squad. Definitely not the right way to line up.

I dont think Sexstone is man enough to make the decision anyway. After listening to his comments today about reducing the squad size I have to ask the question why he allowed KM to bring in Bolasie & Taylor. If he had any balls he would have told KM that the money available was to be used for strengthining the defence and not on more squad fillers. Yes they might be one's for the future but currently all they are is another 2 wage packets (and transfer fees) that are not in our matchday squad.

I expect those two are on very little money compared to what is being asked for by players with experience at this level, so I doubt very much that is what is stopping us bring people in. Remember too we went for the likes of Taylor (the now Cardiff player) having already signed those two. Don't expect Colin to say "yes loads of money is available"

You're probably right Nibor this won't be popular, but it's a good attempt at being level-headed. I guess the only issue I have with your post is that it isn't about 2 games. it's about the on-going long term problems. I believe they've been addressed in many other posts, which probably aren't too difficult to find.

I believe the bigger long term problems aren't Keith Millen's doing (ie the state of the squad, the shitty scouting, the inability to bring players through) which is perhaps why I am trying to be patient. I also think he is trying to address other problems too like coaching and scouting. He still makes mistakes, yes.

What are you referencing here?

Many of the mistakes made early on last season were quickly recognised and improved on. There are still one or two that don't appear to be recognised (like 433) and there are others that are as yet not fixable (like needing two defenders) but I still think he can learn.

My doubts about Millen are to do with natural leadership and charisma, not brains or experience.

[Nibor]

You've certainly calmed down after cussing KM's selection and formation before the game.

If he's still getting these basics so wrong one year in, why do you say he is learning from his mistakes?

I was always calm, just disappointing to see the wrong formation again. See the post above for the rest.

[Nogbad the Bad]

It seems likely it is because Steve likes him from what Keith himself has said about Steve telling him way back that he would be our manager one day. I imagine Johnson was told he had to keep Keith, though he also has praised him highly and recommended him for the job. Why he is so highly regarded I'm not sure; mI assume it is a combinaiton of highly qualified and nice guy, neither of which is a guarantee of success. But there is clearly no chance of him being sacked.

Why would SL ever say such a thing, it certainly brings his judgement into question again.

It seems SL likes to appoint manager's he can be friends with which must not only be almost uniquely odd in the world of football but makes the inevitable parting of the ways that much more protracted and difficult.

[DT The Optimist]

We have only played too games of the season. No reason too panic.

Sorry That is so wrong. We were pretty poor at the end of last season and only beating Hull city on the final day prevented a losing run yet again? Anyway the pre season was dire, as James himself said on player, beaten easily by Yeovil and Torquay, yet Keef seems to think the players were nicely conditioned and he did not see the Ipswich result coming ? It seems that he cannot do anything about what is happening to break this downward cycle of gloom. He seems a nice bloke, but he has to shape up or ship out.

Today, due to where I live, I listened to the game on the BBC Wales side, better reception. They commented how poor we were and it looks like a hard season for Bristol City. Another hard mid week game, followed by Pompey. I just want a point, somehow !

[lager loud]

Despite the justifiable post match anger, it's still too early. No manager worth their salt will come to a club that sacks a guy two games in, and people like Davies and Jones are very very expensive not just in terms of wages but in terms of budget.

IMO it is necessary to give it a bit longer and if it hasn't improved ten games in then start making plans, looking for someone like Tisdale on their way up rather than billy big bollocks managers used to huge budgets.

Anyway, Millen has learned from mistakes before, he may do so this time.

Not going to be a popular view today I suspect but the last thing we need is knee jerk reactions and sacking someone so close to the start of the season cannot be described as anything else.

I agree with this. It seems pretty clear that no manager is going to be given a big budget this season (and FWIW I think that's right - you can't just keep overspending year after year, and there's no reason SL should want to keep shovelling money into the club).

I thought before the season started that we might have to be happy if we just avoided getting into a relegation fight, because we wouldn't be able to improve the squad until the dead wood was removed, and that might not be possible until next summer. And there are some very strong squads in this division. I'd still be satisfied finishing about where we did last season, but would hope to see signs of progress by then - playing some better football, some of the youngsters coming through as regulars. The way we've started the season, though, that "target" seems a long way off right now.

Is KM the man to move us forward? I'm not sure. There were certainly some good signs last season, and I wouldn't write him off just yet. But he has made a bad start to the season, doesn't seem to know how to arrange his team to make the most of the players he has got, and hasn't shown he has the bottle to make difficult decisions (e.g. Maynard should have been subbed last week, so that Pitman didn't have to play wide left). KM is also being let down by his players at the moment. Is that because they don't respect him, don't fear him enough, or is it just one of those things? I don't know, but I hope it stops pretty soon. It sounds as though we made major contributions to two of Cardiff's goals today, having helped Ipswich with all three last week. It will be interesting to see how we compete against teams when we haven't given them a two or three goal start.

But, much as I hate the impatience of many football chairman, and how little time managers are often given, if there aren't significant signs of improvement when the season is eight or ten games old, the club will really have to think about finding a manager who can make this group of players survive this season and will be able to develop things next year, when more money should be available.

[Midge]

We have only played too games of the season. No reason too panic.

Can you honestly say we have "played" two games, we havent even turned up for them, the manager is not the only one to blame here but at the end of the day he is the head of state so the responsibility lies with him, time to get a manager in and not a coach

[Jon atyeo is my dad]

Here we go. Happy clapper no.1

Classic knee jerk reaction after a loss!

Hard to take most comments seriously to be honest.

ESPECIALLY IMEDIATELY AFTER THE FINAL WHISTLE WAS BLOWN!

I seem to remember reading in a very similar position to us last season they made the playoffs! Not saying we even have a chance but where would the likes of reading be now?

Certainly not playoff runners up and beating Leicester on there own patch 2nd game of the season!

But hey what ever! Let's sack millen pay up his contract! Which costs money sign a new manager which costs money and give him some errm more money to buy players!

This club is in a dangerous position on the pitch and off it and the decision must be made calm and calculated. Not knee jerk after 2 games!

I ain't happy I have spent 400+ on my st this season and yet again won't get value for money but I'll get a lot less value if we don't get behind a club that is desperate for support !

Let's see how this response gets twisted !

[ciderup]

According to Millen we 'were much better in the second half and showed what we are about'. Now according to both City fans and a Cardiff fan I know, who were at the game, Cardiff took their foot off the gas as they were 3 up! I gather they could have upped their game at any time.

Nice bloke he may be but he hasn't got the dressing room and needs to be replaced urgently. Get a tea cup throwing nasty sod to shake this shower into life or we are in deep 5hit!

[bs3]

FFS Milen we were 3 nil down the game was over . He is really a fuiking joke why do we have to put up with bs.

[chinapig]

I agree with this. It seems pretty clear that no manager is going to be given a big budget this season (and FWIW I think that's right - you can't just keep overspending year after year, and there's no reason SL should want to keep shovelling money into the club).

I thought before the season started that we might have to be happy if we just avoided getting into a relegation fight, because we wouldn't be able to improve the squad until the dead wood was removed, and that might not be possible until next summer. And there are some very strong squads in this division. I'd still be satisfied finishing about where we did last season, but would hope to see signs of progress by then - playing some better football, some of the youngsters coming through as regulars. The way we've started the season, though, that "target" seems a long way off right now.

Is KM the man to move us forward? I'm not sure. There were certainly some good signs last season, and I wouldn't write him off just yet. But he has made a bad start to the season, doesn't seem to know how to arrange his team to make the most of the players he has got, and hasn't shown he has the bottle to make difficult decisions (e.g. Maynard should have been subbed last week, so that Pitman didn't have to play wide left). KM is also being let down by his players at the moment. Is that because they don't respect him, don't fear him enough, or is it just one of those things? I don't know, but I hope it stops pretty soon. It sounds as though we made major contributions to two of Cardiff's goals today, having helped Ipswich with all three last week. It will be interesting to see how we compete against teams when we haven't given them a two or three goal start.

But, much as I hate the impatience of many football chairman, and how little time managers are often given, if there aren't significant signs of improvement when the season is eight or ten games old, the club will really have to think about finding a manager who can make this group of players survive this season and will be able to develop things next year, when more money should be available.

Vey well put if I may say so. Keith's apparent floundering is worrying (constantly stating the obvious about giving soft goals away but apparently being unbale to do anything about it despite his coaching skills for instance) but the players are indeed letting him down, The question is whether they give a toss about that. Remembering one of David James' columns in whiich he explained how players go about getting managers sacked with no suggestion that there was anything wrong with that I fear not. Keith is very much on his own I'm afraid and will need to show a strength of character that has not yet been evident.

[Jordan Tansley]

Hell of a shout that is. As Nibor said a Tisdale or as you said Clarke type manager on there way up is exactly what we need. A manager with hunger who will accept he wont have a huge budget to play with for the time being.

Like Millen seems like alovely chap, but a lovely chap isn't what Bristol City needs at the moment. The players arn't playing for him its obvious and when that happens its time for a change.

You have seen how much Huddersfield have spent in the two years he's been there? and how much they've underachieved?

Lee Clarke is an absolute ballbag. So far today we've had Gary Neville and Lee Clarke linked... I'd rather have Tinnion back thanks!

[Mendip City]

Personally, I don't think Keith's the man for the job. I'm not sure that we fans have been told the exact circumstances he's managing under. I get the impression that the plan is to hang on this season and have a clear out next year. Is he allowed to drop James? Is he allowed to play Coppell's expensively paid signings? Why else can Cisse have disappeared?

Everything about the club seems flat and disjointed. Whenever the next manager does come in we need to get to a compact settled squad and settled formation. The board need to be disciplined about signings - do other clubs at this level buy players and soon discard them? (cisse, akinde, hunt, clarkson, stewart, henderson....).

Surely a smaller squad will be a better quality squad.

Is now the time to bin the accademy - plenty of prem cast off for us to pick from.

Bottom line is sack Millen but only with a clear, open strategy moving forward.

[Dunc]

You have seen how much Huddersfield have spent in the two years he's been there? and how much they've underachieved?

Lee Clarke is an absolute ballbag. So far today we've had Gary Neville and Lee Clarke linked... I'd rather have Tinnion back thanks!

Neville would undoubtedly be a big gamble but on the plus side:

Years of playing for Man U and England with and against the best players in the world

Experience of what makes managers successful under arguably the best ever

Proven leader with passion and ability to put a rocket up backsides when needed

Connections in the game so access to good signings/loanees

Would bring a much needed sense of excitement to the Gate... boost crowd and team

Is he a gamble - yes

Is he in the same league as tinnion/millen - worlds apart

Is he worth taking a punt on - in my view Millen's sacking is inevitable sooner or later... and anything is better than the current shambles

[slartibartfast]

Nothing 's gonna happen. With SL's (apparant) demotivation and lack of further investment, and CS a puppet chairman, I thing we will be sleepwalking into L1.

[Jordan Tansley]

Neville would undoubtedly be a big gamble but on the plus side:

Years of playing for Man U and England with and against the best players in the world

Experience of what makes managers successful under arguably the best ever

Proven leader with passion and ability to put a rocket up backsides when needed

Connections in the game so access to good signings/loanees

Would bring a much needed sense of excitement to the Gate... boost crowd and team

Is he a gamble - yes

Is he in the same league as tinnion/millen - worlds apart

Is he worth taking a punt on - in my view Millen's sacking is inevitable sooner or later... and anything is better than the current shambles

Good ******* god. Someone is putting an argument forward for employing that rat like ****.

I'll stand here now and say I won't set foot in AG again if Gary Neville ever came to BCFC. Thankfully Colin and Steve aren't ******* mental so this situation will never arise.

******* Gary Neville. Words ******* fail me. **** **** ****.

[Dunc]

Good ******* god. Someone is putting an argument forward for employing that rat like ****.

I'll stand here now and say I won't set foot in AG again if Gary Neville ever came to BCFC. Thankfully Colin and Steve aren't ******* mental so this situation will never arise.

******* Gary Neville. Words ******* fail me. **** **** ****.

Completely agree with you, the man's an arsehole. But arseholes can make winners - Warnock, Daglish etc.

All I'm saying is do you think we'd have a better chance of staying in this league with mild mannered milly... or bringing someone in with a bit of back bone, top class experience and winning mentality? I know what my money is on...

[Andy082005]

Good ******* god. Someone is putting an argument forward for employing that rat like ****.

I'll stand here now and say I won't set foot in AG again if Gary Neville ever came to BCFC. Thankfully Colin and Steve aren't ******* mental so this situation will never arise.

******* Gary Neville. Words ******* fail me. **** **** ****.

Surely he was joking?........surely?

[rockinredrobin]

Millen has to go, should have gone when GJ left, too long he has been a part of the problem (defensive coach ffs) not part of the solution.

And never mind only 2 games into this season, he had almost all last season and the close season, only to see us under performing in pre-season against lower league times and arriving unprepared for the real thing - just like under copout.

Too many bizarre team selection errors, like not starting Kilkenny, sticking Pitman left wing, prefering the ineffective Skuse to the reliable Cisse & even the continued cold shoulder of Hunt (who was one solid performer in pre-season by all accounts).

Enough is enough, let's do a Norwich act decisively like they did after a cr@p start two seasons ago, dismiss Millen and start moving forward again!

2 games gone far too early to panic and i think at the end of the season there will be 4 or 5 teams worse than us ( Cov ,Peterboro , Barnsley and Donnie spring to mind ) however I can understand threads such as these - things seem strained and KM's interview on BCFC Player claiming that basically 'what we had out in defence today is what we've got' isnt going to go down that well with the players - at times like these he needs the players with him not resenting him for (effectively) slagging them off

I posted on this subject last week - unless something drastically changes we are in for a crap season I fear and 16-20th place - but if we lose again at Leicester let's not make AGate like a morgue next Saturday because the players will be playing full of fear anyway ( if played 3 lost 3 by then)

I am not sure what the answer is ( apart from 2 new commanding centre halfs , a solid mobile left back , Maynard signing or leaving and a fist waving leader in the middle of the park ! ) but thats not going to happen and I dont believe ( having only appointed KM a year ago ) SL will be keen to sack him - at prersent the Club want to reduce losses - that stance won't be helped by paying more compensation and then bringing yet another manager in that might not fancy the players already here.

As I said last week I think the plan is to let 10 or so players go that are out of contract at the end of June next year and then rebuild the squad from the funds freed up - HOWEVER I do accept the argument that KM might not be the sort of 'name' that would attract the 'better' players - if thats the case you need to pay high wages to persuade the players to come to you and we don't do that either ( it would seem ) at present.

Hopefully though if we do ship 3 more at Leicester it will shock the Board into freeing up funds to sign a defender or two

[slartibartfast]

Completely agree with you, the man's an arsehole. But arseholes can make winners - Warnock, Daglish etc.

All I'm saying is do you think we'd have a better chance of staying in this league with mild mannered milly... or bringing someone in with a bit of back bone, top class experience and winning mentality? I know what my money is on...

I think we'd have a better chance with Clark Kent!

[Dunc]

Surely he was joking?........surely?

I don't want Neville at BCFC. My slightly tongue in cheek point is that you can make a reasoned argument for his appointment. The case to keep KM is looking incresingly light... whether that's today or 10 games in when we are still in the bottom 3.

[chinapig]

Personally, I don't think Keith's the man for the job. I'm not sure that we fans have been told the exact circumstances he's managing under. I get the impression that the plan is to hang on this season and have a clear out next year. Is he allowed to drop James? Is he allowed to play Coppell's expensively paid signings? Why else can Cisse have disappeared?

Everything about the club seems flat and disjointed. Whenever the next manager does come in we need to get to a compact settled squad and settled formation. The board need to be disciplined about signings - do other clubs at this level buy players and soon discard them? (cisse, akinde, hunt, clarkson, stewart, henderson....).

Surely a smaller squad will be a better quality squad.

Is now the time to bin the accademy - plenty of prem cast off for us to pick from.

Bottom line is sack Millen but only with a clear, open strategy moving forward.

It is certainly fair to say that responsibility has to be shared. Poor old Keith has to take all the flack but everybody from Steve to the players pretty much gets away with it. Keith has repeatedly said his hands are tied (though saying it again after saying there were no excuses was not a wise move) and that is true. If the new policy is so rigid that we cannot even afford to lend a centre half then he is stuck with the dross he has. As much as he says he is happy with his defenders because he has to I can't believe he wouldn't replace the lot if he could. If he wouldn't then I would be really scared.

But if Colin chooses to take a dog in a manger attitiude as he appeared to do on Radio Bristol today then he must also accept his share of blame for the consequences, including relegation if it happens. Of course we need to shift players out but as with bringing them in you cna't always do it at the time and in the order you would like. There is a sense thet Colin is trying to show how tough he is but would he like to find himself saying we got relegated but damn it I ran a tight ship? There has been a complete about turn in policy but it cannot be done over night without significant risk that you will make the posiiton even worse.

There also seems to have been some confusion as to what the policy actually is. Keith startedtalking about bringing in players and we got the usual noises from the club about backing the manager where possible. Keith was allowed to take a punt on 2 possibles for the future and bring in Kilkenny (who incidentally seems to think he has been sold a dummy, having been told what Keith was going to do then findiing no such thing happened) and only then did it become clear that that was it unless players left. That rigidity seemed to come as a surprise to Keith and Colin has only recently started making public comments on the issue. His comments today suggest he is not even convinced we need any players, in which case I assume he is too busy to watch any games.

Anyhow it seems clear that the strategy is to reduce costs and cling on to our status until the stadium is sorted and ambition has been shelved until then. In many ways that is fair enough and the club should not pretend otherwise. In those circumstances a rookie manager who is obligated to the owner and is not likely to make the fuss an experienced man might is an obvious appointment. God knows what Billy Davies would do given his constant complaints about the Forest Board for instance.

Certainly if I were Nicky Maynard and the club were to say to me, stay Nicky we are goinbg for promotion I would be inclined to tell them to pull the other one. Footballers are not always as dumb as they look, and their agents certainly aren't. If he were to sign it would certainly prove he had put loyalty above ambition; though I doubt that will happen and it is another high risk tactic to wait until the end of the transfer window.

I do hope Colin is not our own George Osborne and there is a Plan B otherwise plan C (how to manage the dire consequences of relegation) may be forced on him.