Suarez (Merged)

[Mr Mosquito]

 

England will never win the World Cup... we don't have the mindset to win at all costs. To cheat, the desire, the passion, the discipline,

the win at all costs attitude.

 

 

 

Brazil, Germany and Italy have not won many more World Cups than England by cheating. Over the decades, their national sides have been far better footballing sides than ours. Look out for the USA as they are the latest emerging football nation that will soon overtake England.

[Steve Watts]

Personally I'd rather be hamstrung by doing the right thing, than get ahead by being a shit.  But again, maybe that's just proving the point.

As for brits trying to play fair, maybe the memo got lost on it's way to Daniel "If anyone runs near me on the pitch I'm going down and claiming a penalty" Sturridge then.  I was gobsmacked at the number of Bambi on Ice moments from that guy in our three games....He was like an intentional Bas Savage!

[Red-Robbo]

You may be correct but once the FIFA decision is made about any punishment, Liverpool cannot just remain mute about what has happened (like they did under Dalglish) Suarez is in real danger of losing his 2 main sponsors over this and any lack of action by Liverpool might result in the same thing for the club, they really need to be seen as at least publicly warning him as to his future conduct and telling him it's his last chance and that they will sue him over breach of contract if there is another incident.

Ex Liverpool players are lining up to say he is dragging Liverpool's name through the mud, sadly the fans of this under achieving club are so desperate for success that they will pretty much forgive anything and for that they risk being categorised with pretty much the whole Uruguayan banana republic nation's view over this matter.

Sorry, Es, I'm going to have to disagree with you there on an important matter.

They don't grow bananas in Uruguay.

[Mr Mosquito]

The whole reaction on here proves what we as Brits think...me included.

 

This is totally a Cultural thing. We as Brits want to play fair and do things by the rules.

 

Yet most other Cultures think it is clever to win by cheating, and by unfair means. To gain an advantage over another person by being 'sneeky' or 'Clever' or by any other means come to think of it...is seen as genius, and your actions are actually applauded. Even down to little things in life like queueing....or being clever and queue jumping.

 

England will never win the World Cup... we don't have the mindset to win at all costs. To cheat, the desire, the passion, the discipline,

the win at all costs attitude.

 

Frank Lampard alluded to this in a recent interview.

 

If one of our players did what Suarez did we would be up in arms....yet he is seen as a hero for doing it in Uruguay. South Americans think it's funny. Brazil are reporting it as funny. Even Italians are not really complaining about it...they are blaming Ballotelli instead.

 

This is totally a Culture thing...the world laughs at our reactions and 'fair play' attitude.

 

This little article is a good read...it gives a slight perspective. http://www.playthegame.org/uploads/media/Ezequiel_Moores_-_The_hand_of_God.pdf

 

I've done a lot of travelling in my life time, and the two things that I have noted that are acceptable in most other Countries populations are, breaking the rules or cheating to gain advantage, and Rascism.

 

We as a Nation are the opposite...and that in my mind is why we will never be successful as a Sporting Nation again.

 

Yours is a very thought provoking article and that's why I'm replying to it again. Quite honestly, England were pretty ordinary in the World Cup compared to most nations competing. I'd rank us at 30th out of the 32 nations competing in the finals by what I've seen so far. England were also led by a manager that helped get this very football club relegated from the first to the fourth division in successive seasons. England are light years behind Argentina, Germany, Holland and Brazil in football terms and that's why we can't do well in the World Cup - no other reason.

[Super]

Yours is a very thought provoking article and that's why I'm replying to it again. Quite honestly, England were pretty ordinary in the World Cup compared to most nations competing. I'd rank us at 30th out of the 32 nations competing in the finals by what I've seen so far. England were also led by a manager that helped get this very football club relegated from the first to the fourth division in successive seasons. England are light years behind Argentina, Germany, Holland and Brazil in football terms and that's why we can't do well in the World Cup - no other reason.

 

He does have a point though. The Uruguay defender when he took out Sturridge it was his lack of rolling around on the floor that kept him from getting a second yellow card. How many players from other countries would of done that?

[spudski]

I don't think its accurate to say most other cultures have a cheating ethic, I would say that most of the world have the opposite. Northern and Eastern Europe, Australasia, USA, Canada, most of Asia and Africa don't have this cheating culture. I would say its limited to South America in general and some latin countries to a lesser degree.

 

This biting incident will not be a big deal to the South Americans and they will not understand the fuss being made of it - its part of the game (their game that is). This is why I don't think FIFA will come down too hard on Suarez, the world cup is in South America and it'll probably be their culture which takes precedence.

I disagree with you mate....to some degree.

All those nations have a different attitude to ourselves....not necessarily cheating though. My comments weren't purely about 'cheating' perse.

Having worked in OZ and NZ...they all see cheating on the field exceptable...even in cricket...it's only a loud minority that try to play the fair card.

The majority of Europe cheat at football. Especially, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece.

Asia and Africa don't cheat...really????

I coach in Canada and the USA....cheating or getting away with it over their, is more acceptable than here.

I would however agree that South American 'culture' or 'Latin'...so you can include Italy, Spain, Greece, Portugal etc....are more inclined to cheat in their culture.

[spudski]

Yours is a very thought provoking article and that's why I'm replying to it again. Quite honestly, England were pretty ordinary in the World Cup compared to most nations competing. I'd rank us at 30th out of the 32 nations competing in the finals by what I've seen so far. England were also led by a manager that helped get this very football club relegated from the first to the fourth division in successive seasons. England are light years behind Argentina, Germany, Holland and Brazil in football terms and that's why we can't do well in the World Cup - no other reason.

I think it's far more deeper than that fella... it's cultural....even the Like of Lampard who was playing alluded to it.

[Mr Mosquito]

He does have a point though. The Uruguay defender when he took out Sturridge it was his lack of rolling around on the floor that kept him from getting a second yellow card. How many players from other countries would of done that?

 

Fair comment, but at the end of the day that was a poor refereeing decision that led to the Uruguayan defender not being sent off with what should have been a second yellow card. Suarez had had a knee operation last month and no way should he have been able to lose his markers so easily on two occasions for his two goals against England. If I was the England manager I would have ordered our players to put in some nice crunching tackles on Suarez to nullify the threat from him - that isn't cheating, that's football ye olde English 60s and 70s way.

[Super]

Fair comment, but at the end of the day that was a poor refereeing decision that led to the Uruguayan defender not being sent off with what should have been a second yellow card. Suarez had had a knee operation last month and no way should he have been able to lose his markers so easily on two occasions for his two goals against England. If I was the England manager I would have ordered our players to put in some nice crunching tackles on Suarez to nullify the threat from him - that isn't cheating, that's football ye olde English 60s and 70s way.

 

Oh I agree we weren't good enough but had he been sent off like he should at 0-0... well we will never know.

[Mr Mosquito]

I think it's far more deeper than that fella... it's cultural....even the Like of Lampard who was playing alluded to it.

 

Super Frankie Lampard is 36 years old and he got in the team for England - good on him but there's no young English midfielder of his type and calibre there to replace him. There are some great young England players coming through the ranks but no where near as many as there used to be. Germany, Holland, Argentina and Brazil have a conveyor belt of great players coming through and we don't. The last great England side was 1990.

[TRL]

I don't think its accurate to say most other cultures have a cheating ethic, I would say that most of the world have the opposite. Northern and Eastern Europe, Australasia, USA, Canada, most of Asia and Africa don't have this cheating culture. I would say its limited to South America in general and some latin countries to a lesser degree.

This biting incident will not be a big deal to the South Americans and they will not understand the fuss being made of it - its part of the game (their game that is). This is why I don't think FIFA will come down too hard on Suarez, the world cup is in South America and it'll probably be their culture which takes precedence.

Are you sure? I know for a fact that Romanians and Bulgarians are quite proud of their sneaky and cheating ways in general. They know Europe sees them like it and they don't care as it is how they were bought up.

How do I know this I have many Bulgarian and Romanian friends who allude to it all the time. Dishonesty maybe not in the sporting sense, but certainly in life. It is almost part of the meaning of being Bulgarian or Romanian. The thought of getting one over on someone by whatever means is a pass time

[Mr Mosquito]

Oh I agree we weren't good enough but had he been sent off like he should at 0-0... well we will never know.

 

Too many Scouse git England players on the pitch with a love for Suarez. Gerrard even set Suarez up with a flick on header for Suarez to get the winner. I would have played with a minimum of Scouse gits against Uruguay and ordered the players to do their patriotic duty and aim for Suarez's injured knee in all challenges and tackles. A pity England didn't have the likes of Norman Hunter or Chopper Harris to call upon to smash into Suarez's dodgey knee.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Sorry, Es, I'm going to have to disagree with you there on an important matter.

They don't grow bananas in Uruguay.

 

Very true but Brazil accounts for 10% of the worlds banana production and their biggest customers are Argentina and URUGUAY and Uruguay do claim to be a republic, so perhaps we can agree on the following compromise, banana importing republic?, which is probably even more derogatory than just plain banana republic.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Thank you, very kind of you......but with England out of the World Cup  I've decided to lend my support to Columbia not Uruguay.

 

As long as the players don't upset the apple cart tels, like in the USA world cup.................

[Mr Mosquito]

Very true but Brazil accounts for 10% of the worlds banana production and their biggest customers are Argentina and URUGUAY and Uruguay do claim to be a republic, so perhaps we can agree on the following compromise, banana importing republic?, which is probably even more derogatory than just plain banana republic.

 

So, management speak, England need to eat more bananas and meat for us to replicate Uruguay and Argentina that have both won the World Cup twice.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

So, management speak, England need to eat more bananas and meat for us to replicate Uruguay and Argentina that have both won the World Cup twice.

 

We won our world cup on fish and chips and beer.

 

But in answer to your question, we need bigger/fuller brown envelopes and not David Beckham and the Princes.

[WTFiGO!?!]

If we're getting into differentation of cultural ethics, I suggest we deny the animal re-entry to the UK on grounds of preventing the spread of infectious disease; rabies infected mut that it is. Put it down (or Liverpool fans, continue with your beastuality if you prefer).

Depthsofdispair: point heard about the disadvantagious English virtue of sportsmanship but it's the Italians challanging FIFA to act.

[Mr Mosquito]

We won our world cup on fish and chips and beer.

 

But in answer to your question, we need bigger/fuller brown envelopes and not David Beckham and the Princes.

 

Quite honestly, I can't imagine the likes of Holland or Germany needing to bribe anyone. It's plain for all to see that they are World Cup favourites whereas in the first game against Italy you could see England would struggle. Watch out for Manchester United next season with that Dutch manager - they're going to be hard to beat.

[Phileas Fogg]

The whole reaction on here proves what we as Brits think...me included.

This is totally a Cultural thing. We as Brits want to play fair and do things by the rules.

Yet most other Cultures think it is clever to win by cheating, and by unfair means. To gain an advantage over another person by being 'sneeky' or 'Clever' or by any other means come to think of it...is seen as genius, and your actions are actually applauded. Even down to little things in life like queueing....or being clever and queue jumping.

England will never win the World Cup... we don't have the mindset to win at all costs. To cheat, the desire, the passion, the discipline,

the win at all costs attitude.

Frank Lampard alluded to this in a recent interview.

If one of our players did what Suarez did we would be up in arms....yet he is seen as a hero for doing it in Uruguay. South Americans think it's funny. Brazil are reporting it as funny. Even Italians are not really complaining about it...they are blaming Ballotelli instead.

This is totally a Culture thing...the world laughs at our reactions and 'fair play' attitude.

This little article is a good read...it gives a slight perspective. http://www.playthegame.org/uploads/media/Ezequiel_Moores_-_The_hand_of_God.pdf

I've done a lot of travelling in my life time, and the two things that I have noted that are acceptable in most other Countries populations are, breaking the rules or cheating to gain advantage, and Rascism.

We as a Nation are the opposite...and that in my mind is why we will never be successful as a Sporting Nation again.

A very interesting point and I agree and feel that sort of thing is more common in other countries.

Disagree about sporting success though.. Olympics, tennis we do well in. Perhaps team sports with more variables there is more scope to cheat

[handsofclay]

There's been a lot of loose talk on here  about England playing the game too fairly. Shame on all of you who have suggested we adopt continental habits and cheat to progress in the World Cup. I would rather we be 30th in the competition and not resort to the base attitudes of the barbarian than employ such devilish tactics and win the trophy.  All of you subscribing to the adoption of these nefarious foreign traits, GET A GRIP. Look in the mirror. We are all ENGLISHMEN. Act like it. Why, if Horatio Nelson was reading this thread he would spin in his grave.

[Eddie Hitler]

There's been a lot of loose talk on here  about England playing the game too fairly. Shame on all of you who have suggested we adopt continental habits and cheat to progress in the World Cup. I would rather we be 30th in the competition and not resort to the base attitudes of the barbarian than employ such devilish tactics and win the trophy.  All of you subscribing to the adoption of these nefarious foreign traits, GET A GRIP. Look in the mirror. We are all ENGLISHMEN. Act like it. Why, if Horatio Nelson was reading this thread he would spin in his grave.

 

If you are talking about the hero who actually won the Battle of Trafalgar then it's Admiral Cuthbert Collingwood.

 

Nelson was a great man - but Collingwood's ship was the first into battle at Trafalgar, and he took command upon Nelson's death, helping the war-torn English fleet to survive a treacherous storm.  Collingwood also wrote and dispatched the reports of Trafalgar when he would naturally have played down his own part in proceedings and built up the role of his friend, Nelson, so helping to perpetuate the legend.

 

 

Who has been forgotten because he was all fair play and self-effacement, as you think we should be.

[handsofclay]

Collingwood was the first into battle because Nelson had the tactical nous to order his subordinate to have a bit of a sparring session with the French and Spanish. Collingwood was employed as a bit of a pinch hitter and thereafter took a bit of a back seat as had he taken a front seat, like Nelson - although he was standing up when the sniper got him - he would not have lived to tell the tale.

There is a justifiable reason why Nelson was plonked on top that column in London. His statue made by a Bristolian incidentally, it is because he was a great role model for ENGLISHMEN to follow. He died for his country, he did not dive for it. Although had someone alerted him that he was about to be shot he might have dived for it then.

[PHILINFRANCE]

We won our world cup on fish and chips and beer.

 

But in answer to your question, we need bigger/fuller brown envelopes and not David Beckham and the Princes.

You are so right!

Over the years, I have worked in many countries/regions, including the Middle East. The envelopes to which you refer are part of their culture: and accepted unequivocally. You cannot even obtain a driving licence without a backhander to X, Y and Z (and probably their brothers).

And yet, when, e.g. British Aerospace, do the same thing, in common with their American competitors Lockheed etc., they have to pay huge fines to the USA for corrupt working practices! And the pathetic British government accepts (and pays) this without a whimper! Yes George. Of course George. How much George. Am I bending over sufficiently George?

No!

The playing field is not level and, if we try and compete whilst maintaining our 'fair play' stance, we might win the moral ground but rarely, if ever, the game itself.

[spudski]

There's been a lot of loose talk on here  about England playing the game too fairly. Shame on all of you who have suggested we adopt continental habits and cheat to progress in the World Cup. I would rather we be 30th in the competition and not resort to the base attitudes of the barbarian than employ such devilish tactics and win the trophy.  All of you subscribing to the adoption of these nefarious foreign traits, GET A GRIP. Look in the mirror. We are all ENGLISHMEN. Act like it. Why, if Horatio Nelson was reading this thread he would spin in his grave.

Where has anyone suggested adopting continental habits?

 

It's just been pointed out that there are cultural differences and what is seen as acceptable behaviour.

 

I'd rather we kept to our values...

 

The more you travel and live in amongst other cultures...the more you realise the rest of the world are not like us...that's my experience anyway.

[PHILINFRANCE]

Collingwood was the first into battle because Nelson had the tactical nous to order his subordinate to have a bit of a sparring session with the French and Spanish. Collingwood was employed as a bit of a pinch hitter and thereafter took a bit of a back seat as had he taken a front seat, like Nelson - although he was standing up when the sniper got him - he would not have lived to tell the tale.

There is a justifiable reason why Nelson was plonked on top that column in London. His statue made by a Bristolian incidentally, it is because he was a great role model for ENGLISHMEN to follow. He died for his country, he did not dive for it. Although had someone alerted him that he was about to be shot he might have dived for it then.

From memory, your account is reasonably accurate. I must say, however, that your description (somewhat 'tongue in cheek', if I may say so) is wonderfully, and casually, amusing. Well Done. 

[handsofclay]

Thanks PHILINFRANCE. Eddie Hitler made the point that Collingwood's seffacing manner meant his heroics were forgotten...but obviously this was not the case for Eddie to dredge him up on here nearly 209 years later!

I dare say some Frenchie took a bite out of an Englishman's shoulder during the battle but it was forgotten about within a few years and the name of the miscreant now alludes us. But Nelson and Collingwood live on. 

[Super]

9 match ban and no football for 4 months.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Luis Suarez has been banned for NINE games.

The Uruguayan has also been banned for four months from all football activities.

FIFA announced the news in a statement in Rio de Janeiro.

 

[Spike]

^ confirmed on BBC website, gutted Liverpool!

[Smokey]

9 match ban and no football for 4 months.

is that domestic and international football? and when does the perm season start?