One Team In Keynsham Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 The Jam/Paul Weller famously sang in one of his songs "And the public gets what the public wants". The PR referendum 2011 decided that. And we will most likely see kidney machines replaced by rockets and guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 I think you'll find that the service received from Private providers is from a patient perspective extremely good and from our perspective competitively priced. They will rarely be the sole provider of hospital based services , as of course we are obliged to offer patients a choice. The bigger problem is the ability of the Private providers to refuse to treat patients with more complex medical conditions as inevitably the recovery period of the young, fit patient is more predictable and allows them to put in a suitably competitive bid. Therefore the obese, diabetics, asthmatics etc will be seen in the District General only, at likely greater expense. However this will be weighted accordingly in the Commissioning process. Actually works fairly well and the biggest problem is preventing both NHS and Private from over providing services. I'm not criticising the quality of care, I imagine that just like the NHS, it'll be variable from excellent to shite. But the focus will inevitably shift from patient focus to shareholder focus, probably not at the level of doctors and nurses but at the boardroom level. The fact that a care provider can choose whether or not they treat someone is disgusting in my opinion and another policy which disadvantages the poorer sections of society. I have an idealogical opposition to comodifying public services because the value of a public service is not measured in financial profit and loss, it is the value to the community it serves I'm not criticising you as an individual for working for one of these companies, I'm sure you care on both a professional and personal level about the people you are treating, but I fundamentally disagree with your employers role in the NHS. Nothing personal mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 So farewell Nick Clegg You betrayed your party Your voters and your country. Now frack off A I Zoon (aged 69 1/4) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 So can anyone see the LD returning to the days of 30-40 seats again? The party is practically 6 foot under.. Yes they have blown the lot for 5 years in the coalition. I think they were getting stronger and stronger again before this now they are worse than being back to square one. They may as well disband now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Fancy boycotting some of the firms whose donations helped the Nasty Party pull the wool over the public's eyes. Here's a select list of high street brands to avoid. Not difficult as most of them are horrible! Melton Mowbray pork pies and Ginster's pasties Next Cobra lager Autotrader magazine Autoglass Kingsmill and Warburtons bread Euro hotels Green King and Fuller's beer Will add more later... searchthemoney.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddoc Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 I'm not criticising the quality of care, I imagine that just like the NHS, it'll be variable from excellent to shite. But the focus will inevitably shift from patient focus to shareholder focus, probably not at the level of doctors and nurses but at the boardroom level. The fact that a care provider can choose whether or not they treat someone is disgusting in my opinion and another policy which disadvantages the poorer sections of society. I have an idealogical opposition to comodifying public services because the value of a public service is not measured in financial profit and loss, it is the value to the community it serves I'm not criticising you as an individual for working for one of these companies, I'm sure you care on both a professional and personal level about the people you are treating, but I fundamentally disagree with your employers role in the NHS. Nothing personal mind Thanks, just like to clarify that I don't work for the provider, I'm just a G.P and as you're aware the Government decided to hand us the budget and task us to do the commissioning. No choice I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmNick Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 I would agree. I would actually a promote a similar system to Australia. In my view a one size fits all NHS funded by the tax payer is becoming very costly and we end up with people who hardly use it funding it through taxes and people who dont work a day in their life, kicking back and using all funded things - and not contributing a bloody thing. Not to mention foreigners (the amount on HIV treatment who come from sub-saharan Africa is shocking). In Australia if you earn over a certain amount and you get private healthcare cover, then you receive a 30% rebate. What it recognizes is that you are not burdening the public system, you are using private, so the tax system rewards you to help fund that. I have private healthcare cover, so do all my dependents, so it would make sense that we give people back taxes to recognize that they arent using the public sector. We need to streamline the public system and prevent overcrowding in it - no question. This just seems to narrow minded to me. Because you're not using something you don't want to have to pay for it, or contribute to society? The idea of a society is that we all help each other out and contribute to an overall greater good, not that we total up exactly what we've used and demand the rest back because some poor guy broke his leg 200 miles away and needed hospital treatment. The number who "don't work a day in their life and kick back" on the NHS is incredibly small - you realise that of total public spending in the UK, only 0.5% of it even went on unemployment benefits, and what proportion of those people are "kicking back" on the NHS? Only about 1% of the country are on unemployment benefits as it is. Why are you so concerned with this incredibly small minority of people who do cheat the system (which is wrong) rather than far far far greater problems affecting our country right now. Stop repeating these total nonsense claims, the NHS is one of the things this country should be most proud of. I'm not even going to mention the repeat of Farage's HIV tourism comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRock Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 So 4 million mainly English voters get 2 MPs and 1.5 million Scots voters get nearly 60 MPs. This is democracy? Totally disenfranchised from the political system. Was all for the Union, but now sod it. Rebuild the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One BCFC Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Imo the downfall of Labour was ultimately who was in charge, Ed Miliband - an absolute wet flannel. If Labour had a strong member in charge who knows but 5 years of Conservatives, this will not be enjoyable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Thanks, just like to clarify that I don't work for the provider, I'm just a G.P and as you're aware the Government decided to hand us the budget and task us to do the commissioning. No choice I'm afraid. You have my undying respect. I have many friends and family who are employed by the NHS, from anaesthetists and oncologists to nurses and they're all doing a great job in increasingly difficult circumstances. I hope you get the tools and the money to make the best decisions possible for your patients Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Fancy boycotting some of the firms whose donations helped the Nasty Party pull the wool over the public's eyes. Here's a select list of high street brands to avoid. Not difficult as most of them are horrible! Melton Mowbray pork pies and Ginster's pasties Next Cobra lager Autotrader magazine Autoglass Kingsmill and Warburtons bread Euro hotels Green King and Fuller's beer Will add more later... searchthemoney.com You sound like a gashead talking about boycotting Sainsburys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Up The City! Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 So 4 million mainly English voters get 2 MPs and 1.5 million Scots voters get nearly 60 MPs. This is democracy? Totally disenfranchised from the political system. Was all for the Union, but now sod it. Rebuild the wall.Apparently it is. When I was voting I was torn between UKIP for their local policies and the CONS to lead the country. In the end I voted UKIP for their local policies as that's likely to affect me more. I wanted the CONS to win the election but I only had one vote. You should be able to vote on who you want to be prime minister and which MP you want. The BBC reported last night many people were torn between local and national policies. By voting for CONS and UKIP english voters have at least said they want a in/out vote on the EU. How will you vote? I'm putting a big fat cross in the get us out box. CONS were always going to win this. No matter what Labour did they would lose this simply because of the mess they made the last time they was in power. A mess still being cleared up now. It was that fear that lost it for them. Labour needs to go back to its roots by being a party for the working man. At the moment UKIP are taking them votes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 I don't disagree, the approach of throwing more money into it it frankly not going to work. Barely any doctors in training want to be a GP so claims of 8000 or however many extra GPs seems optimistic to me if I'm honest. As someone who qualifies as a pharmacist later this year I am entirely biased but more pharmacist/nurse prescribing of long term conditions like blood pressure, diabetes and asthma in doctors would free up actual GPs to spend more time diagnosing etc as well as being more cost effective. As for what to do with hospitals... More community based triage and minor injury centers would help but frankly that's not an area I know an awful lot about. I don't know why - all you have to do is look stuff up on the internet and you get a massive salary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Anyway there is some really good news. Comedian???, Russell Brand who told the world "don't vote it's not worth it" and then did his dumb and dumber sketch with Ed and declared "everybody should vote labour, he convinced me", earlier today said "I was right there's no point in voting" . and now the good news he has now has quit politics because the tories won, every cloud and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoke_Gifford_Red Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Exactly, as I posted earlier today there are major disagreements over several aspects of government policy within the Conservatives (housing, energy policy, EU referendum, new airports etc) and with such a small majority they are weak to rebelling MPs. The Tories could end up with three choices - strong arming MPs to ensure they toe the party line (could backfire), "bribing" individual MPs to stop them rebelling or finally just avoid doing anything too contentious. I know it can come across as pretentious to quote my post, but it appears that things are already changing. There was due to be a report into which airport in the SE to expand released shortly, however the consultation has been reopened following election of a large number of MPs who object to Heathrow expansion: http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/may/08/gatwick-runway-plan-boosted-by-consultation-on-heathrow-air-quality The only issue is, there are a group of Conservative MPs around Gatwick who don't want expansion of that airport. I am hoping the Conservatives can overcome these divisions, as further airport capacity around London is one of the best ways of boosting long term growth, plus there will many jobs created during design and construction. The best bit though is unlike other large scale infrastructure schemes which have similar economic impacts, for example HS2, both the expansion plans for Heathrow and Gatwick would be privately funded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 A short list of things which the conservative Party were opposed to and campaigned against but now, presumably, they are in favour. Medals for private soldiers Old Age Pensions The opening of the House of Lords to non-hereditary peers University grants The NHS The minimum wage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 You sound like a gashead talking about boycotting Sainsburys. I'd probably do that if I was them. You can even things up if you like by eating lots of Ginster's pasties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 I'd probably do that if I was them. You can even things up if you like by eating lots of Ginster's pasties. OK i'm with I promise that I won't buy any steel from Stemcor, we've all got to start somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 A short list of things which the conservative Party were opposed to and campaigned against but now, presumably, they are in favour. Medals for private soldiers Old Age Pensions The opening of the House of Lords to non-hereditary peersUniversity grants The NHS The minimum wage I think the whole university system needs to be radically overhauled. The government should finance vocational degrees, but arts degrees (your history of arts, English literatures etc) are a waste of everyone's time and should be discouraged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Apparently it is. When I was voting I was torn between UKIP for their local policies and the CONS to lead the country. In the end I voted UKIP for their local policies as that's likely to affect me more. I wanted the CONS to win the election but I only had one vote. You should be able to vote on who you want to be prime minister and which MP you want. The BBC reported last night many people were torn between local and national policies. By voting for CONS and UKIP english voters have at least said they want a in/out vote on the EU. How will you vote? I'm putting a big fat cross in the get us out box. CONS were always going to win this. No matter what Labour did they would lose this simply because of the mess they made the last time they was in power. A mess still being cleared up now. It was that fear that lost it for them. Labour needs to go back to its roots by being a party for the working man. At the moment UKIP are taking them votes. Even if you accept that assertion, it isn't being cleared up very well. The Conservatives have borrowed more than Labour and national debt is much, much bigger than it was in 2010. At the same time, peoples spending power is lower than it was under Labour. Oh and we are the least productive nation in Western Europe now and we import much more than under Labour. Looks like someone else is going to clear up that mess in 2020, assuming he limps that far with a majority of 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 I think the whole university system needs to be radically overhauled. The government should finance vocational degrees, but arts degrees (your history of arts, English literatures etc) are a waste of everyone's time and should be discouraged. Sort of agree AG. I don't think art is a waste of time, but I do agree that we produce far too many arts and social science graduates. Encouraging and subsidising vocational apprenticeships for many young people would be a better route. We have skills shortages in many areas, but the only solution seems to be import those workers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Seriously it's not going to make one tiny speck of piss of difference whoever got in. This nonsensical stuff of it would be so much better if such and such got in is bollocks. The country is broke, that's the reality of it. You are arguing over the countries bank loan, they're all blagging it, they're all full of shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Mate, I spent 3 years in the Israeli Army having travelled from Australia to serve and protect my people, I know what society is about and my contribution to it. However I do not believe in lumbering the cost onto a few people at such a high degree while others pay scant little. If I am consciously not using the public system then it's fair to get a rebate back in my book. You can still contribute to society, we just need things a little more fair on the middle incomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Sort of agree AG. I don't think art is a waste of time, but I do agree that we produce far too many arts and social science graduates. Encouraging and subsidising vocational apprenticeships for many young people would be a better route. We have skills shortages in many areas, but the only solution seems to be import those workers. Yeah basically. I don't think art is a waste of time either, but as there seem to be so few jobs in those areas, people with art degrees just end up working in banks and with huge debts to their names. It's sad but that's just the way it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Team In Keynsham Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Mate, I spent 3 years in the Israeli Army having travelled from Australia to serve and protect my people, I know what society is about and my contribution to it. However I do not believe in lumbering the cost onto a few people at such a high degree while others pay scant little. If I am consciously not using the public system then it's fair to get a rebate back in my book. You can still contribute to society, we just need things a little more fair on the middle incomes. What salary range covers middle incomes in your view? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 What salary range covers middle incomes in your view? Something a lot less than many premiership footballers earn, if a player earns 200k per week, then surely 200k per annum must be middle income?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM91 Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Something a lot less than many Premier League footballers earn, if a player earns 200k per week, then surely 200k per annum must be middle income?? Nope. As soon as you're a supermarket supervisor you're rich and have to subsidise the lazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BristolCity1992 Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 What salary range covers middle incomes in your view? One where you pay 64k in tax apparently. More than me and my partner earn in a year put together. Ha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Nope. As soon as you're a supermarket supervisor you're rich and have to subsidise the lazy. Couldn't agree more it's about time that life on benefits was stopped as a career choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 This is UK democracy at it's best. Plaid Cymru, Lib Dems, UKIP, Greens totalled 7.5 million votes for 13 seats. SNP total 1.5 million votes for 56 seats. This is exactly why people can't be bothered to vote. How on earth does that represent the voting publics view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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