Admin phantom Posted April 7, 2016 Admin Report Share Posted April 7, 2016 Guess it will be a make or break summer for Wes, he can clearly cut it in league 1, but will now how to show that he can also do it consistently at a level higher in the championship I have never understood why he always played upfront for Wales but always seemed to be played on the right for us. Or was that just more stubborness from Cotts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted April 7, 2016 Report Share Posted April 7, 2016 I feel for young Burns...Imo, he has all the qualities of being a top forward, and I think it's BCFC that is holding back his progress. He can quiet obviously hold his own at League 1 and possibly Championship level. I couldn't see a pairing of JK with Burns...as to be honest, Burns although still young, is far more tactically savvy than JK. If JK is used in a pairing next season, I can see an older experienced head being used with him. Would love to see young Burns thrive at BCFC...but can see him better off playing every game in a league 1 team...fingers crossed that's not us next season. Catch 22... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted April 7, 2016 Report Share Posted April 7, 2016 3 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Scored all sorts of goals to head, feet, volley, run though and slide past keeper... None of his goals have been tap ins and as you rightly point out @Davefevs is and has been involved in almost all their attacking play and has had plenty of strikes on goal , looking a real threat The lad has clearly got it and there would be a host of L1 clubs in for him if he was available and maybe a Championship Club as well I really hope he gets his chance at AG - he has benefited from and responded to a run of games brilliantly My biggest fear for Wes and all our young players coming through is that clubs at our level can, in theory go out and buy a 'ready made player' for £££ rather than back a young player who by their very nature be slightly inconsistent All the right noises are being made by LJ and the club re a path through to the first team but, in fairness it is a very brave manager who picks and sticks with a young player, good and bad, when he has a squad of more experienced options, and even harder in a relegation battle Wes, I would suggest is the best forward / goalscorer we have produced since ........ ? Dave Cotterrill has done well but Wes will get more goals Lita we picked up from Chelsea People rave about Bradshaw on here , and there is no doubt he is one of the better forwards in L1 but how many goals would Wes get playing week in , week out for Walsall ? His goals per game ratio is better that's Bradshaws right now , as I think aim right in saying , it is for Wales U21s He will clearly have a good professional career - Wouldn't it be great though if he can force himself into / get a chance the starting 11 at AG and succeed for US In the short term for Wes personally I just want him to carry on taking Fleetwood to safety and get himself a place in the Welsh Squad for the summer - Has to be the in form Welsh striker right now ...and yet so many on here want him gone ...or at least thought this loan spelled the end of his time at City. Being totally serious, if he wasn't our player and continues the sort of form shown at "The Cod Lot" til the end of the season, how many Championship Club's radar do you think he'd be on, and how much do you think they might need to stump up to get him. And around the fringe of the Welsh Senior Team. Who knows injuries may see him get to The Euros! Assuming LJ thinks he's part of his plans, I would be offering him more security than the extension offer. He isn't the finished article, but the bits and pieces I've seen on tv, show an increasing maturity that surely can only benefit us....and save us a gamble on the likes of Bradshaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted April 7, 2016 Report Share Posted April 7, 2016 2 minutes ago, Davefevs said: ...and yet so many on here want him gone ...or at least thought this loan spelled the end of his time at City. Being totally serious, if he wasn't our player and continues the sort of form shown at "The Cod Lot" til the end of the season, how many Championship Club's radar do you think he'd be on, and how much do you think they might need to stump up to get him. And around the fringe of the Welsh Senior Team. Who knows injuries may see him get to The Euros! Assuming LJ thinks he's part of his plans, I would be offering him more security than the extension offer. He isn't the finished article, but the bits and pieces I've seen on tv, show an increasing maturity that surely can only benefit us....and save us a gamble on the likes of Bradshaw. Having watched young Burns play in a central role for the development squad, sometimes when Agard was playing, imo, he is far better than Agard. Speed, vision, timing of runs, finish...even aggression...he's bulked up and puts his weight around. Think he's been unlucky here...managers in the past haven't really given him a go. Would love to see him given a place in the first team squad on a regular basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted April 7, 2016 Report Share Posted April 7, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Cigar Posted April 7, 2016 Report Share Posted April 7, 2016 I hope we don't let him go. Maybe send him out on loan for six months next season and see how he does. He's not going to be a regular, yet, but think it'll be a mistake selling him. By the way, I think that miss against West Brom in the replay (the one on one after 10mins or so) really dented his confidence. He'd been lively in games before this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin1988 Posted April 7, 2016 Report Share Posted April 7, 2016 20 hours ago, BCFC Jordan said: I stand by my opinion that our academy players actually get more harshly judged than the opposite way around. If we'd signed a 21 year-old from the Non-League and loaned him out and he'd have done as well as Wes, people would be talking about it a lot more. What?! Bobby Reid and Wes Burns are just two recent examples of how our academy products are flaunted as being the next-big-thing on very little return. Wes is doing well at Fleetwood, no doubt about it, but people have been prolonging the idea he was ready for Championship level on very little evidence long before this spell. People have said the same of Bobby Reid despite the fact he hasn't been able to nail down a place nearly five years after he made his debut. If we signed someone from non-league and kept them on that long, people would be spitting feathers. For more youngsters overhyped on this forum (mostly but not all our own), see Tristan Plummer, Frankie Artus, Jennison Williams, Jack Batten, Kevin Krans, Toby Ajala, Joe Edwards. Only a handful are now playing league football of any description. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted April 7, 2016 Report Share Posted April 7, 2016 20 hours ago, BCFC Jordan said: 58 minutes ago, phantom said: Guess it will be a make or break summer for Wes, he can clearly cut it in league 1, but will now how to show that he can also do it consistently at a level higher in the championship I have never understood why he always played upfront for Wales but always seemed to be played on the right for us. Or was that just more stubborness from Cotts? Perhaps asking a lot for a 21 year old to be consistent in the Championship, Wes will have his ups and downs, but he should now be returning to City more confident ( and with more confidence being shown in him) and ready to play a far bigger role in the match day squad. I'd say from the beginning of next season he should be seen as first reserve for Kodjia, playing his role, and regularly replacing him from the bench. LJ has to make a firm decision on Wes's best position and persevere with him there in training rather than having one eye on fitting him in him as a wing back/winger. The lad's greatest asset to us will be as a goalscorer, let's make sure he's played in a position to score them. 20 hours ago, BCFC Jordan said: People were raving about Adam Armstrong earlier in the season as he started scoring regularly for Cov. That's 5 in 10 for Wes in a struggling Fleetwood side, and his performances have been really impressive too - it's not just a case of scoring the goals (which isn't a bad trait to have anyway). I stand by my opinion that our academy players actually get more harshly judged than the opposite way around. If we'd signed a 21 year-old from the Non-League and loaned him out and he'd have done as well as Wes, people would be talking about it a lot more. Two ways of looking at this. We all want Academy players to do well and in my experience City fans have always been very supportive of local players breaking through to the first team. That's great but patience can wear thin if they don't progress but keep on getting new contracts without really making their mark because they are seen by the club to be popular, have potential, or dare I say it, are local so it's good PR for the club to point to them as evidence 'the Academy is working'. Any lack of progress can be down to the position of the club at the time, the manager, injuries, or of course the player himself just not being capable. As well as Wes, I used to speak up on this forum on behalf of James Wilson, believing, no doubt like the club, that injuries were largely to blame for his stagnation at AG. In the end I was wrong though, City kept him due to his 'potential' until the ridiculous age of 25, which turned out to be at least one contract too many. Hard hearted decisions have to be made on all players when it comes to renewing contracts and Academy players are no different. Wes, at 21, has now proven he should get one imo., but must be set a target to really push on to be a regular first teamer before it expires. Bobby Reid, at 23, is in the James Wilson camp imo. where he has had ample opportunity to prove himself, and has already had that extra contract without forging a regular first team place or ever looking like he will, and harsh though it may seem, the club needs to be unsentimental and move him on so he can at last play regular football, albeit at a lower level. Making the correct decisions on new contracts for Academy graduates should be seen as just as important as the due diligence required in making a new signing. Sometimes letting players go will be seen as harsh - though of course it's something most young players at AG face before they get their first pro. contract - and the player may be in for a shock but that's what those making those decisions are paid for. The last thing any of us should want is an Academy graduate getting preferential treatment, or being shown excessive faith or patience because they are local, no matter how much we'd all like to see a good sprinkling of Bristolians in the first team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted April 7, 2016 Report Share Posted April 7, 2016 2 hours ago, spudski said: I feel for young Burns...Imo, he has all the qualities of being a top forward, and I think it's BCFC that is holding back his progress. He can quiet obviously hold his own at League 1 and possibly Championship level. I couldn't see a pairing of JK with Burns...as to be honest, Burns although still young, is far more tactically savvy than JK. If JK is used in a pairing next season, I can see an older experienced head being used with him. Totally agree Spud - Finding a partner for JK is a real Dilemna and a difficult one IMO - JK really needs to learn to play with partner(s) or I can see LJ cashing in on him. Don't think Wes would see much of the ball playing alongside JK ! Shame AW isn't late twenties - perfect partner for Wes and they would be a hot pairing IMO Would love to see young Burns thrive at BCFC...but can see him better off playing every game in a league 1 team...fingers crossed that's not us next season. Catch 22... 1 hour ago, Davefevs said: ...and yet so many on here want him gone ...or at least thought this loan spelled the end of his time at City. Being totally serious, if he wasn't our player and continues the sort of form shown at "The Cod Lot" til the end of the season, how many Championship Club's radar do you think he'd be on, and how much do you think they might need to stump up to get him. And around the fringe of the Welsh Senior Team. Who knows injuries may see him get to The Euros! Assuming LJ thinks he's part of his plans, I would be offering him more security than the extension offer. Totally agree - Bearing in mind his age and the fact he's proven himself up to L1 to date , not looked out of place and contributed in Championship I'd be offering Wes a 3 yr contract offer If all doesn't work out at AG and Wes wanted first team football , which at his age he will then there would be a queue of Clubs ready to take him. No great financial risk - Wes appears far more motivated by playing than pound notes - an improved / decent 3 yr contract offer would surely be an sensible investment by the club and would also endorse the pathway theory He isn't the finished article, but the bits and pieces I've seen on tv, show an increasing maturity that surely can only benefit us....and save us a gamble on the likes of Bradshaw. 1 hour ago, spudski said: Having watched young Burns play in a central role for the development squad, sometimes when Agard was playing, imo, he is far better than Agard. Speed, vision, timing of runs, finish...even aggression...he's bulked up and puts his weight around. Think he's been unlucky here...managers in the past haven't really given him a go. Would love to see him given a place in the first team squad on a regular basis. Nice to hear Spud - you and the lads who have seen the Development Squad are the only ones who have been able to see a sustained look at Wes To me he looks like he's really got something that will give him a good career - His record is another indication Just needs a break and run of games to help confidence more than anything ( I do understand how difficult it is for a manager, whether it be SC or LJ to put the pressure of survival on a youngsters shoulders , especially a forward - especially with edgy nervous fan base !) 3 hours ago, phantom said: Guess it will be a make or break summer for Wes, he can clearly cut it in league 1, but will now how to show that he can also do it consistently at a level higher in the championship I have never understood why he always played upfront for Wales but always seemed to be played on the right for us. Or was that just more stubborness from Cotts? Another Good Point Phantom - I don't know how Wes or DJB see it - It looks like Wes is suited to a wide right in a three behind a lone striker (a la Boro at AG) or up top , in a two Personally I wonder whether coaches and managers have used Wes wide because a) he works hard and b) has pace For me , having proved he can score goals I'd be doing everything to work with Wes as striker / goalscorer - Good attitude, blistering pace, has proved can score with feet or head, strong..... Those packages don't come around that often - got to be a striker/goalscorer ! 1 hour ago, Davefevs said: A goal every three starts / four appearances is a promising stat Some may say it's at this or that level but that has to be considered and balanced with a young developing player playin on loan at unfamiliar clubs / unfamiliar teammates and the current loan is the most impressive which surely indicates a very positive development 1 hour ago, Nogbad the Bad said: Perhaps asking a lot for a 21 year old to be consistent in the Championship, Wes will have his ups and downs, but he should now be returning to City more confident ( and with more confidence being shown in him) and ready to play a far bigger role in the match day squad. I'd say from the beginning of next season he should be seen as first reserve for Kodjia, playing his role, and regularly replacing him from the bench. LJ has to make a firm decision on Wes's best position and persevere with him there in training rather than having one eye on fitting him in him as a wing back/winger. The lad's greatest asset to us will be as a goalscorer, let's make sure he's played in a position to score them. Great point Nogbad As I've commented above re use / development of Wes The decision how to use Wes (I'm with you - as a striker and persevere for me) is crucial to Wes himself and his progression and career at AG 1 hour ago, JonDolman said: Agree completely. I don't think he was the same player after that. When he came on in one match he was really bad with his final ball. This loan has been the perfect move for him. I'm confident he will be here next season. Again - I agree Jon - Wes had 'one of those days' for twenty minutes and that must have knocked him back , particularly sadly in the OTT (IMO) reaction from supporters Most of our current first team squad have had 'one of those days' on a few occasions for 90 min periods this season so the reaction to Wes's late involvement v Brum was nuts and demonstrated the level of relegation nerves around AG at that time (IMO) Taking Wes out of that and getting him a sustained run of games may have been a very sensible moves and has worked out for all as well as anyone could possibly have hoped Wes's attitude to a very unglamorous loan has been fantastic and he deserves whatever good comes from it He could literally have done no more than he's done Well done Wes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 Will be interesting to see how he gets on next week in a game with a pretty fierce atmosphere when Fleetwood play Blackpool. No love lost there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 44 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said: Will be interesting to see how he gets on next week in a game with a pretty fierce atmosphere when Fleetwood play Blackpool. No love lost there. Proper relegation six pointer too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 Another assist yesterday.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gas8er Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 On 6 April 2016 at 07:38, alexukhc said: My fear is he comes back pre season, has a really good season and leaves on a free next year He has been given another year this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexukhc Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 1 hour ago, gas8er said: He has been given another year this week. So very likely prediction... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivorguy Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 I think Wes is good but unlikely now to be outstanding Why have we never found a Rashford? Atyeo remember came from Portsmouth and all our other better than good strikers from outside like Cole, Cheeseley etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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