CotswoldRed Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 27 years of lives destroyed and made so much worse by disgusting liars. Vermin. I hope every last one who is still alive is brought in front of a court and served porridge for a very long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 6 minutes ago, BCFC Jordan said: Closure at last. Bless the families that fought so hard and for so long. There was a Hillsborough documentary broadcast in America about a year ago, it was unable to be shown on our televisions due to the court case. Whilst incredibly harrowing, it is worth watching to see how bad it was for the families. May the 96 rest in peace. Closure for some I'm sure. For others, those responsible now need to face justice and imprisonment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 This is an incredible powerful article from David Conn at the Guardian http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/apr/26/hillsborough-disaster-deadly-mistakes-and-lies-that-lasted-decades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 4 hours ago, Malago said: It's interesting that the FA has escaped criticism. It was their tournament, they chose Hillsborough as a venue. They had a duty of care to ensure the Stadium they chose was fit for purpose and that proper safety measure were put in place. I don't think you can say the FA were responsible for the Unlawful Killing of the 96, but they should be held responsible for holding a football match at a stadium which was clearly not fit for purpose. The previous year, Liverpool had been given the Leppings Lane end and there had been capacity problems. Liverpool FC asked the FA for the other end this time and were refused. The outcome is history... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stortz Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 9 minutes ago, Tomarse said: This is an incredible powerful article from David Conn at the Guardian http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/apr/26/hillsborough-disaster-deadly-mistakes-and-lies-that-lasted-decades It's a hard read. Very moving. Conn deserves a load of praise for the way he has stuck to the story for many years when virtually all other journalists had given up. Respect to him. I hope the families can now start to let go of the victims they have fought so amazingly hard to exonerate from the horrible slurs on their memories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 Maybe now the restrictions imposed by the Taylor Report should be re-examined, as they were based on the lying evidence of the SYP. Certainly, some of those recommendations were excellent, but the restrictions of spectator standing and drinking in sight of the game could be reconsidered? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flaxbourton Red Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 Everybody knew the police were responsible - apart from those that accepted the police and right wing media lies. Don't buy the sun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 2 hours ago, GrahamC said: No, but she was PM at the time that it happened. If you want to think she was great, fine, it is a free world. Personally I think she was the devil incarnate. You can't compare Thatcher with the Devil, he was far nicer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bs3 Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 4 hours ago, RedDave said: I haven't been keeping up with this at all so please excuse the ignorance. What was the opinion and/or verdict regarding the thousands of fans who turned up with no tickets? Did that even happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Team In Keynsham Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 20 minutes ago, Aizoon said: The previous year, Liverpool had been given the Leppings Lane end and there had been capacity problems. Liverpool FC asked the FA for the other end this time and were refused. The outcome is history... If memory serves, they were allocated the Leppings Lane end based on the direction of arrival of the bulk of their support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Team In Keynsham Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 17 minutes ago, Flaxbourton Red said: Everybody knew the police were responsible - apart from those that accepted the police and right wing media lies. Don't buy the sun. Billy gets it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolmoose Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 I've never seen that letter from Ingham before. I'm utterly speechless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TV Tom Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 I despair of this country, lying police, lying politicians, lying papers, crooks, the lot of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bs3 Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 2 hours ago, cityloyal473 said: So not solely down to Thatcher then. That's cleared that up. The cover up was started straight away. Police office were told by senior office not to fill in thier note books. Officers who did make statements had thier statement changed at a later date. How was South Yorkshire Police able to get away with this , well 4 years early Mrs Thatchers Government used the South Yorkshire Police to literally smash the striking miners, so she owed the SYP a favour and didn't she pay it back. Thatcher and her cronies in the press then set about a campaign to dicredit Liverpool fans, it was also only a few years after she had major problems with Derick Hatton, who was the Militant Labour leader and major thorne in the side of the Tory Government, so even before Hillsborough there was no love lost between Liverpool and Thatcher. It was only very recentley that cabinet documents from the 1980s came in to the public domain saying that Thatcher wanted to "abandon Liverpool" and let the City die. So you right in one repect,Thatcher played no part in the death of the 96 Liverpool fans but what makes matter worse in these events are the cover up that follow she was right in the centre of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 Awful what happened...even worse the lies that covered up the facts. Those who covered up the facts need to be held responsible. I feel sorry for the families that lost their loved ones. I feel sorry for certain Policemen and women, and those in control at the game, that made mistakes in the heat of the moment. I feel for those that had to witness it all. I also hope those fans that rushed the gates, and continued pushing, and those with no tickets, think about their actions as well...as I'm a great believer in being responsible for your own behaviour, and being aware of what consequences could happen. I also find it ironic that fans died whilst being crushed in Pens...Pens that were put in place because of the despicable behaviour of Football hooligans. Thankfully we now have Football stadiums which are more peaceful and have escape exits in all directions of the stands. Can you even imagine the carnage had Pens been in place at the Bradford stadium fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bs3 Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 13 minutes ago, spudski said: Awful what happened...even worse the lies that covered up the facts. Those who covered up the facts need to be held responsible. I feel sorry for the families that lost their loved ones. I feel sorry for certain Policemen and women, and those in control at the game, that made mistakes in the heat of the moment. I feel for those that had to witness it all. I also hope those fans that rushed the gates, and continued pushing, and those with no tickets, think about their actions as well...as I'm a great believer in being responsible for your own behaviour, and being aware of what consequences could happen. I also find it ironic that fans died whilst being crushed in Pens...Pens that were put in place because of the despicable behaviour of Football hooligans. Thankfully we now have Football stadiums which are more peaceful and have escape exits in all directions of the stands. Can you even imagine the carnage had Pens been in place at the Bradford stadium fire. After a two year inquest ,the longest in British history, they came to the conculsion that the fans were not to blame and did not cause or contribute to the death of 96 fellow fans. Yet by implication you are still blaming fans , have a word with yourself fella. "Liverpool fans done nothing wrong" the words of Jon Snow repected news broadcaster Channel 4 news Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 " I also hope those fans that rushed the gates, and continued pushing, and those with no tickets, think about their actions as well " Do we know that these people existed? The SYP evidence has been shown to be a pack of lies. It is the lies afterwards, repeated by the Sun, Ingham and Thatcher, that really stick in my craw. I agree about the pens, though; not all of the Taylor recommendations were bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 14 minutes ago, spudski said: Awful what happened...even worse the lies that covered up the facts. Those who covered up the facts need to be held responsible. I feel sorry for the families that lost their loved ones. I feel sorry for certain Policemen and women, and those in control at the game, that made mistakes in the heat of the moment. I feel for those that had to witness it all. I also hope those fans that rushed the gates, and continued pushing, and those with no tickets, think about their actions as well...as I'm a great believer in being responsible for your own behaviour, and being aware of what consequences could happen. I also find it ironic that fans died whilst being crushed in Pens...Pens that were put in place because of the despicable behaviour of Football hooligans. Thankfully we now have Football stadiums which are more peaceful and have escape exits in all directions of the stands. Can you even imagine the carnage had Pens been in place at the Bradford stadium fire. Still blaming the fans . Out of order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
054123 Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 20 minutes ago, spudski said: Awful what happened...even worse the lies that covered up the facts. Those who covered up the facts need to be held responsible. I feel sorry for the families that lost their loved ones. I feel sorry for certain Policemen and women, and those in control at the game, that made mistakes in the heat of the moment. I feel for those that had to witness it all. I also hope those fans that rushed the gates, and continued pushing, and those with no tickets, think about their actions as well...as I'm a great believer in being responsible for your own behaviour, and being aware of what consequences could happen. I also find it ironic that fans died whilst being crushed in Pens...Pens that were put in place because of the despicable behaviour of Football hooligans. Thankfully we now have Football stadiums which are more peaceful and have escape exits in all directions of the stands. Can you even imagine the carnage had Pens been in place at the Bradford stadium fire. No need to lie about it and try and blame others though was there? I also believe in being responsible for your actions and those responsible who have trotted out cowardly lies to exonerate themselves will now be brought to justice and the fans have been clear. It's quite clear who was responsible now, don't you agree? A good day eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 3 minutes ago, bs3 said: After a two year inquest ,the longest in British history, they claim to the conculsion that the fans were not to blame and did not cause or contribute to the death of 96 fellow fans. Yet by implication you are still blaming fans , have a word with yourself fella. I'm not blaming fans...I however happen to believe that we should all take responsibility for our own actions. Mistakes were made that caused deaths...because the Police opened gates leading into overcrowded enclosed Pens. Even the poor father who lost his lad being interviewed on the news, said he had told his lad three times, he was not going to let him go...because he told him it was going to be dangerous, and felt for his safety. He eventually gave in...but what made that father think it was going to be dangerous before this tragedy happened? To others who have commented...please read my post...I am not blaming fans, and I have acknowleged who was responsible, and I hope they get their due come uppence as well as those who lied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 10 minutes ago, spudski said: I'm not blaming fans...I however happen to believe that we should all take responsibility for our own actions. Mistakes were made that caused deaths...because the Police opened gates leading into overcrowded enclosed Pens. Even the poor father who lost his lad being interviewed on the news, said he had told his lad three times, he was not going to let him go...because he told him it was going to be dangerous, and felt for his safety. He eventually gave in...but what made that father think it was going to be dangerous before this tragedy happened? To others who have commented...please read my post...I am not blaming fans, and I have acknowleged who was responsible, and I hope they get their due come uppence as well as those who lied. His father was probably concerned because it had happened at previous semi finals in the leppings lane end and nothing was done about it because nobody had died . The ground wasn't fit and didn't even have a safety certificate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bs3 Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 31 minutes ago, Aizoon said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityexile Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 4 minutes ago, spudski said: I'm not blaming fans...I however happen to believe that we should all take responsibility for our own actions. Mistakes were made that caused deaths...because the Police opened gates leading into overcrowded enclosed Pens. Even the poor father who lost his lad being interviewed on the news, said he had told his lad three times, he was not going to let him go...because he told him it was going to be dangerous, and felt for his safety. He eventually gave in...but what made that father think it was going to be dangerous before this tragedy happened? To others who have commented...please read my post...I am not blaming fans, and I have acknowleged who was responsible, and I hope they get their due come uppence as well as those who lied. Difficult to throw back our minds to the culture at that time. Who knows, but as a father now, looking back then, I might have thought any game had some element of danger about it, 'some trouble' mainly. Not in this way however. After a two year inquest the outcome was that the football fans actions 'did not contribute' and seperately dismissed 'may have contributed'. Clear enough. Even now I can just about forgive, what has now been held to be the criminal negligence on the day of the authorities. The entire prism they were viewing the day through was one of public order, not of health and safety. Incompetent, but maybe forgiveable as human errors. What can never ever be forgiven is the lies, deceit, manipulation of evidence, deliberate displacement of the blame on to the fans by the Police in the cold light of day. Maybe unintentionally, but your initial post shows the power of that misinformation, as you play back some of the lies told at the time about the fans. Almost certainly not the fault of the average copper, but in playing their lies to the government of the day, by christ they had a receptive audience led by the bitch Thatcher, that saw the world clearly as police good, working people as disposable trash. She more than any other single person created the culture of that time, in which the cover up was allowed to happen and I hope is rotting in hell. I am also going to say I have been guilty, more in recent years, of thinking the fans of Liverpool were, well, starting to just drag this on a little in terms of their grief. Shame on me, and I can only salute all those who have struggled for so long to achieve the justice of today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charliesboots Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 1 hour ago, Aizoon said: Maybe now the restrictions imposed by the Taylor Report should be re-examined, as they were based on the lying evidence of the SYP. Certainly, some of those recommendations were excellent, but the restrictions of spectator standing and drinking in sight of the game could be reconsidered? Whilst I agree in part, I don't believe the current government have any appetite to reconsider. There will be (rightly so) further outcomes criminally and undoubtedly more "establishment" figures pulled into the line of accountability and whilst this is ongoing no one in power will touch it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SedRA Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 6 hours ago, cidered abroad said: When cover up's on this scale take place in such a supposedly democratic and free country, I realise that in some respects, GB is no better than a despotic banana republic. Nobody should ever go to work or leisure and not come home because of the actions/inactions of those in authority. It doesn't take much for me to shed tears and today is the same as when I saw it happening on TV all those years ago. RIP fellow human beings. And it still happens a lot nowadays. Take all media/news outlets with a heavy pinch of salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bs3 Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 30 minutes ago, spudski said: I'm not blaming fans...I however happen to believe that we should all take responsibility for our own actions. Mistakes were made that caused deaths...because the Police opened gates leading into overcrowded enclosed Pens. Even the poor father who lost his lad being interviewed on the news, said he had told his lad three times, he was not going to let him go...because he told him it was going to be dangerous, and felt for his safety. He eventually gave in...but what made that father think it was going to be dangerous before this tragedy happened? To others who have commented...please read my post...I am not blaming fans, and I have acknowleged who was responsible, and I hope they get their due come uppence as well as those who lied. There was over crowding the year before because of poor ground design and poor Policing, and this also occured when in 1981 Spurs played a semi final there against Wolves. Thats what makes it worse , in some ways it was a disaster waiting to happen and the people we should trust and have a duty of care towards fans failed on that day and also failed before that day in the planning of the policing operartion. It was an avoidable disaster but at the time the authorities simply didn't care about football fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 Were the F.A mentioned today as part of the blame because they were incompetent in letting the game go ahead in the first place . Plus giving Liverpool the smaller end of the ground when they were much better supported than forest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daored Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 The truth is out, a lot of respect to the families who have fought continuously to get this outcome. I just hope we now see full justice fulfilled and either civil or criminal cases are brought against those who made the decisions and who covered this tragedy. Unfortunately, I don't think we'll see that, but hope I'm wrong. As a football fan who tends to go to more away games than home , I hope today's judgement will see a chance in policing at football. Unfortunately, too often as an away fan your not treated correctly. Justice for the 96 finally. May they now finally rest in peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 18 minutes ago, bs3 said: There was over crowding the year before because of poor ground design and poor Policing, and this also occured when in 1981 Spurs played a semi final there against Wolves. Thats what makes it worse , in some ways it was a disaster waiting to happen and the people we should trust and have a duty of care towards fans failed on that day and also failed before that day in the planning of the policing operartion. It was an avoidable disaster but at the time the authorities simply didn't care about football fans. Agreed it was a disaster waiting to happen...like a previous poster said, we simply didn't have health and safety back then...many just trusted the authorities to care for them, in many ways just like today. I look at tragedies like this, and still learn from them today. I don't trust any authority to give me duty of care, without ever thinking about the safety myself. I take a certain amount of responsibility myself and don't just rely on trust...because it has 'authority' behind it. I work in a life threatening environment for four months of the year. 'Authorities and experts' test conditions everyday, and say whether they are safe or not...but I always test and judge for myself...just in case. Having seen people die, because they just trusted the judgement of others and not their own, I'm glad i'm this cautious. Like I said in a previous post...it's ironic that the pens put in place to hold these fans, were found necessary, because of the hooligan football element that caused trouble before them. If it wasn't for the thoughtless actions of these hooligans, the pens would have never been needed, and these mistakes by the Police could have been overcome, by letting the crowds out onto the pitch, and no deaths would have occurred. A terrible tragedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 2 hours ago, Tomarse said: This is an incredible powerful article from David Conn at the Guardian http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/apr/26/hillsborough-disaster-deadly-mistakes-and-lies-that-lasted-decades One of the most harrowing things I have ever read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.