So for all you 'sack the manager short termists'....

[Esmond Million's Bung]

48 minutes ago, spudski said:

Like Warnock at Cardiff? And how would they be able to change the squad anymore quickly than LJ? Perhaps its the players who are failing to deliver and need to up their game? Just a thought....

And here's a thought, the problems of this season are easy to see for most fans, LJ and MA became obsessed with their plans for the future and forgot about the here and now, LJ misguidedly believed that GON would be enough experience to 'see us through', it also seems that in his pursuit of Matthews he never properly checked the players fitness and just relied that he was signing the Matthews of last season and then to compound this he has to rely on a rookie kid striker, playing with little or no helping then where do we start with our midfield which is hopeless.

These were all massive mistakes and not mistakes made by good coaches IMO.

And as for this gem, 'seem to get great delight in doing 'you said this, you said that' moments...and trying to get 'brownie points', if you cannot take being pulled up some of the more sensational stuff you post, don't say them it's that simple, you cannot post stuff like you do (to gain brownie points) and then bitch about it when you are pulled up about it, especially when they don't stand up to scrutiny.

I am still with LJ but he needs to stop the excuses now because as this piss poor run continues he sounds pore and more like the SC you so despised and take responsibility and sort it out quickly, he has signed the future and now he needs to sign the here and now.

 

[REDOXO]

13 hours ago, Jack Dawe said:

What other manager would have assembled the squad - or "young group" - that LJ judged good enough for this season, bearing in mind the resources available to him? I think none, most probably.

We have a good idea about transfer fees paid last summer. And we spent more than Huddersfield, Barnsley, Preston and others. All three out performing us. And I think we can be sure we have spent more than Burton, who we 2 points ahead of. Not really getting value for money there, I'd say. Not good enough, I'd say.

Forest, QPR, Cardiff, Blackburn - all clubs in a mess following relegation and in debt (and transfer embargoes)and ownership turmoil and problems, and declining gates. So that's why they are currently struggling. But what's our excuse?

We were promoted, we had "momentum," we have a great new ground, we have our biggest crowds since 1979, we have more income than ever, we have a proper COO, we have a wealthy and generous backer. We have more in place and are better prepared for this level of football than we have probably ever been - accept maybe the early 70s when we had a great youth policy - and still we struggle.

One thing we do not have is an experienced coach. But then neither do Barnsley. Or Huddersfield, for that matter.

What we do have now, is excuses. Like your OP is chock full of.

No. We finished 18th last season, so no. Not right. Not good enough. 

This is the thinking and the language of mediocrity and failure. And of helplessness. "What can we do?" "What do you expect?" "So and so's not doing well either." "This is a tough league." "They've all got parachute payments." "We're only losing by one goal." "It's a young group." Failure, mediocrity, loser mentality. Excuses. Who ever achieved anything worthwhile with thinking like that?

Oh, and Huddersfield finished below us, and Reading finished on the same points as us last season. And Barnsley, sixth in L1 last season, have a rookie coach, he's been in the job since Lee left. Proper rookie, him. More excuses, spudski. Not good enough. Not acceptable. Loser mentality.

 

Your post is full of excuses and helplessness. We can only hope the people at the club are not of the same mind. 

 

 

Top Post! I suspect from someone who has achieved something!

[spudski]

25 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

And here's a thought, the problems of this season are easy to see for most fans, LJ and MA became obsessed with their plans for the future and forgot about the here and now, LJ misguidedly believed that GON would be enough experience to 'see us through', it also seems that in his pursuit of Matthews he never properly checked the players fitness and just relied that he was signing the Matthews of last season and then to compound this he has to rely on a rookie kid striker, playing with little or no helping then where do we start with our midfield which is hopeless.

These were all massive mistakes and not mistakes made by good coaches IMO.

And as for this gem, 'seem to get great delight in doing 'you said this, you said that' moments...and trying to get 'brownie points', if you cannot take being pulled up some of the more sensational stuff you post, don't say them it's that simple, you cannot post stuff like you do (to gain brownie points) and then bitch about it when you are pulled up about it, especially when they don't stand up to scrutiny.

I am still with LJ but he needs to stop the excuses now because as this piss poor run continues he sounds pore and more like the SC you so despised and take responsibility and sort it out quickly, he has signed the future and now he needs to sign the here and now.

 

We can agree to disagree Fella...as we have no idea of the restraints and what transfers fell through. We got in who we could...and who fell right at the time. Again, it's so easy to say what you have, when you have no idea of contracts, budgets and availability and other problems that can stop a transfer happening.

Your belief that Matthews and GoN were misguided judgements is all well and good with hindsight. No one knows what's happened in training and day to day...you are judging purely on 90 mins. And how what I posted is seen as 'sensational' is a joke...more like reasoned thought and sensible. The sensational stuff is all the bollox being written about sacking managers and waving magic wands. And it's your perception that it's brownie points...it's more like educating pork sometimes...I don't care if the pork think otherwise or not and will fight my corner. I don't bitch...I reply...and I don't make it a personal vendetta like some.

Happy NY EMB ;-)

[Curr Avon]

15 hours ago, spudski said:

...Come on then...what manager would guarantee wins in this league with the squad we have?

You all seem to know the budget we have to play with, and what players are available in January. Of course any new manager will have an endless budget, will be able to bring in anyone...it's just like going shopping in Tesco's  when doing your shopping don't you know...you can buy and loan whoever you want. You'll have already lined up players to release, and already done work with scouts, other managers and Agents in negotiating new deals. Easy isn't it...just bring them in, like we did last time we were in this position. Of course there are no more limitations to loans like before. Just go in and pick em off a shelf....

We must be absolutely crap...lose to Ipswich who have been in this division for 15 years.

Above Forest and Blackburn, Cardiff and QPR....how crap at this level must they be. Don't get me on the run Norwich are having with all their experience, money and players...we must be really crap.

Yep...two seasons up, with a rookie manager and very average Championship squad...who the hell do we think we are?

Get a bloody grip. when you look at those teams struggling...it shows how easy this league is right????

Exactly half way through the season and 17th....about right...no?

January window coming up...believe...it's no good moaning and thinking we have a divine right to do better. So many teams far better off than us, financially, player wise, and experience and all struggling.

Very passionately put, Spudski.

This season has been as mad as a box full of frogs.

Following a 2-1 win against Forest on Saturday October 1st we were in 5th place, having taken 10 points from a possible 12, with a confident young side, playing 4-2-3-1, with Bryan and Little as staple full backs and Reid and Pack likewise in defensive midfield. The experienced O'Neill watched from the bench.

Then came the international break.

Freefalling Cardiff sacked Paul Trollope and replaced him Neil Warnock, who had the time to draft in new recruits, reorganise his team and allow the City head coach to refer to him as a 'pantomime baddie' in order to fire up his troops, supporters and the local media.

None of this should have affected surging City, but on Friday October 14th Johnson decided to replace Bobby Reid with Gary O'Neill for the Severnside derby, and and a team on the front foot have been going backwards ever since. The confidence of the first 11 fixtures lost, together with O'Dowda, Paterson and until recently, Brownhill.

How did we manage to perform so well with a starting 11 bereft of experienced characters? 

[Northern Red]

55 minutes ago, spudski said:

Yes i'm gutted at recent results...and it's far from ideal. But I'm very aware of the restrictions and how contracts, negotiations and availability of players are. And how football works. We are trying to do it a different way, for the long term. The downside to this, is that we are going to have runs like we are having now. The upside, is that we have a long term project.

People forget...when you change the manager...you change everything else as well. Coach's, players, Scouts, analysts, management team, a new way of thinking, etc.

It's turmoil...and pretty much why every football team struggles.

LJ isn't a manager...he's a coach, working with a team built by SL and his philosophy. We are no longer a club letting managers come and go with their short term ideas. We aren't going to employ a manager to come in and do the short term fix his way... I thought people would have realised this by now. We have LJ because he fits with the philosophy and has agreed to work within those confines. It's a plan...thank **** we've actually got one now.

 

That's all well and good, and I broadly agree with what you're saying and how the club want to go forward now in the long term. However if this bad run was to continue and we started looking like serious relegation candidates (some would argue that we already do), do you think that LJ would be allowed to continue doing what he was doing? Because as much as SL has this long term philosophy in mind, I can't see that going down would be part of it.

[Portland Bill]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

Like Warnock at Cardiff? And how would they be able to change the squad anymore quickly than LJ? Perhaps its the players who are failing to deliver and need to up their game? Just a thought....

Or, perhaps LJ isn't able to do what we keep getting told he's so good at, coach the players on the training pitch.

We have a very good squad of players, we do have some real quality, possibly more than we have ever had as a club. Two players for every position and 10 million spent only a few months ago.

Perhaps.... our coach isn't capable of a game plan for these players, perhaps he's not good enough to manage in this league?

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

Perhaps its the players who are failing to deliver and need to up their game? Just a thought....

Sorry Spud - looks like I'm picking on you today !!!

But surely it is down to LJ to man manage the players, particularly the ones he recruited - a skill as vital as any coaching

He can't have it both ways , either his recruitment (Character / 'DNA' wise at least) was flawed , or his man management or ability to command respect is 

[Jack Dawe]

54 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Top Post! I suspect from someone who has achieved something!

Not today I haven't. Too much bloody time on here.....

[Major Isewater]

3 hours ago, NickJ said:

You don't understand my point, or don't want to.

We ended up where we were this time last year because the club did not buy into SC's philosophy - of acquiring key better players for the now.

It worked in league one. Would have been better if we had stuck with SC's philosophy in the Championship.

LJ is willingly going along with the club's philosophy of buying for the future. A future that in my view will not come.

 

 

We bought in Tomlin , Golbourne ,O'Neil , Ekstrand  for the now .

It is evidently harder for an unfashionable club like ours to bring in quality and experience over youngsters on the up , not to mention that we needed numbers in the summer as our squad was threadbare.

Hopefully Ashton has had the time to ' court '  a couple of battle hardened pros,  with something left to give, and can bring them in straight away to help the kids.

Watch out for Richardson and Chamakh !  

[spudski]

11 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Sorry Spud - looks like I'm picking on you today !!!

But surely it is down to LJ to man manage the players, particularly the ones he recruited - a skill as vital as any coaching

He can't have it both ways , either his recruitment (Character / 'DNA' wise at least) was flawed , or his man management or ability to command respect is 

I don't know the answer to that mate...and I'm being 'picked on' by a great majority today, as I'm in a minority...it's the nature of the beast...it's all good.In fairness to the players and LJ and his team, I would only start getting concerned if we were bottom 3 in 3 months time, and getting trounced. Can't see us getting relegated, in fact I have faith in us being anywhere between approx. 10th to 19th.

I still have faith we will come good and a few fresh faces will make a difference in fortune.

[tts_city]

So how many more would we have to lose on the bounce for you to change your mind on the manager ? Im still just about in the he can turn it around camp, but for me he has January, if we still havent seen a win by then its surely untenable ?

[REDOXO]

Read all of this with interest and at some points with my mouth wide open!

The first thing I would like to point out is I have never met a single person inside this football club or as a supporter who ever thought we have a Devine right to anything other than abject failure. The phrase is complete and utter ass when applied to Bristol City FC. As the bloke from the SUN once said in his paper 'we are supporters of this club through thin and thinner' which sums it up!

At this moment in time WE ARE the worst team in the division. While the table reflects points won early we are currently the worst team in the Championship a point made by BBC Suffolk and attributable to Mick Mills former England captain. So it carries plenty of weight even it was just him saying it. It is not!!

Steve Ls money was spent on players that were deamed to be up and coming. OK we all get that, however they also have to be fit for purpose now so we can give them the experience to make them valuable and further our club and their careers. LARGELY the guy who bought them thinks they are not. Let's Review

ODowda barely gets on the bench and is usually in the stand on matchday

Brownhill as above. Got a couple of games lately due to Korey being utter dirge and GON having an injury. Luckily as he has been mediocre since about the tenth game

Patterson. Played well for a couple of games expelled to the seat in the stand vacated by Brownhill

Engval you have to be shitting me!

Ccentre back from Watford. So lost I can't even remember his name and can not assed to look it up

Matthews out of condition sick note

Lee Tomlin. Played on the wing and obviously lost all confidence in LJ visibly arguing with him

Tammy we are/have wasted the most talented forward we have had since Big John by playing him up on his own. Still hell be gone in May so we won't have to worry

Digirolamo can't get on the bench

Bryan played at full back. The moment we need a goal he is reverted to wing back or winger really does that not tell anyone anything

Odonnell lost confidence. FF great keeper until his ricket that he makes every game. Lucic. Oleary is much better

Magnusson decent enough but looks lethargic and has visibly lost confidence

Flinty what next mate 

Goldbourne our only left back sits in the stand with Patterson until panic sets in

Should I go on. Wake the **** up everyone. We are a mediocre team with a decent enough squad that has lost belief. The results don't lie. We lose games by one goal because teams can shut up shop after gaining a lead and every team in this division knows they only have to wait until we do something stupid and gift them a free goal. 

For the love of god this needs to be turned around the only question is is the guy responsible for much/most of the above capable. Look at the team, really look and then tell me they believe he is!

[Dynamite Red]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

Like Warnock at Cardiff? And how would they be able to change the squad anymore quickly than LJ? Perhaps its the players who are failing to deliver and need to up their game? Just a thought....

The 3 main players you blame and probably the highest earners and experienced squad members were all signed by LJ. Pretty damning in its own right.

Now we need more characters, can he handle them? I won't even go into the baffling tactics and recruitment that means he does not know which formation to play or team to pick. If the players are scratching there heads in bemusement then what do you think the vast majority of supporters are doing.

[stokes7]

All I will say is our style of play is boring and predictable we all know every single game we are crap in the first half and improve 2nd half I'm sorry but there is something wrong when a team never puts in a performance first half it's getting to the point where just like the team maybe us fans should just turn up in the 2nd half

[Dynamite Red]

26 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Read all of this with interest and at some points with my mouth wide open!

The first thing I would like to point out is I have never met a single person inside this football club or as a supporter who ever thought we have a Devine right to anything other than abject failure. The phrase is complete and utter ass when applied to Bristol City FC. As the bloke from the SUN once said in his paper 'we are supporters of this club through thin and thinner' which sums it up!

At this moment in time WE ARE the worst team in the division. While the table reflects points won early we are currently the worst team in the Championship a point made by BBC Suffolk and attributable to Mick Mills former England captain. So it carries plenty of weight even it was just him saying it. It is not!!

Steve Ls money was spent on players that were deamed to be up and coming. OK we all get that, however they also have to be fit for purpose now so we can give them the experience to make them valuable and further our club and their careers. LARGELY the guy who bought them thinks they are not. Let's Review

ODowda barely gets on the bench and is usually in the stand on matchday

Brownhill as above. Got a couple of games lately due to Korey being utter dirge and GON having an injury. Luckily as he has been mediocre since about the tenth game

Patterson. Played well for a couple of games expelled to the seat in the stand vacated by Brownhill

Engval you have to be shitting me!

Ccentre back from Watford. So lost I can't even remember his name and can not assed to look it up

Matthews out of condition sick note

Lee Tomlin. Played on the wing and obviously lost all confidence in LJ visibly arguing with him

Tammy we are/have wasted the most talented forward we have had since Big John by playing him up on his own. Still hell be gone in May so we won't have to worry

Digirolamo can't get on the bench

Bryan played at full back. The moment we need a goal he is reverted to wing back or winger really does that not tell anyone anything

Odonnell lost confidence. FF great keeper until his ricket that he makes every game. Lucic. Oleary is much better

Magnusson decent enough but looks lethargic and has visibly lost confidence

Flinty what next mate 

Goldbourne our only left back sits in the stand with Patterson until panic sets in

Should I go on. Wake the **** up everyone. We are a mediocre team with a decent enough squad that has lost belief. The results don't lie. We lose games by one goal because teams can shut up shop after gaining a lead and every team in this division knows they only have to wait until we do something stupid and gift them a free goal. 

For the love of god this needs to be turned around the only question is is the guy responsible for much/most of the above capable. Look at the team, really look and then tell me they believe he is!

Bang, nail hit firmly on head 

[REDOXO]

15 minutes ago, stokes7 said:

All I will say is our style of play is boring and predictable we all know every single game we are crap in the first half and improve 2nd half I'm sorry but there is something wrong when a team never puts in a performance first half it's getting to the point where just like the team maybe us fans should just turn up in the 2nd half

The bloke interviewed on Radio Brizz post game last night, (NTTDS?) did exactly that. :laugh:

[spudski]

19 minutes ago, Dynamite Red said:

The 3 main players you blame and probably the highest earners and experienced squad members were all signed by LJ. Pretty damning in its own right.

Now we need more characters, can he handle them? I won't even go into the baffling tactics and recruitment that means he does not know which formation to play or team to pick. If the players are scratching there heads in bemusement then what do you think the vast majority of supporters are doing.

So you've just presumed the players are baffled... How about LJ has given the players a bollocking for not pulling their weight and not performing as expected. How about he has told them a few home truths, and the players know they haven't been performing well enough. How many players throw their toys out of the pram and blame the manager, when it's their own performances that are at fault.

Plus you've chosen to understand 'Characters' as someone like GoN rather than Wilbs...funny how people will find negatives all the time, so as to make themselves feel better when results aren't going our way.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing...would you have thought Matthews, GoN and Tomlin would all under perform based on previous campaigns? Very harsh on any manager to think otherwise.

 

[italian dave]

Three pages in, plenty of criticism of just about everyone involved at the club, yes we're on a poor run, but still no answer to Spudski's fundamental question: who?

We've  basically got three choices. 

1. Sack LJ and appoint that manager who will guarantee that we'll not only turn it around this season, but make steady progress every game, without hiccups or poor runs, until we reach the promised land. But as yet no-one can come up with the name and clearly SL doesn't know who it is.

2. Sack LJ and appoint another manager, hopefully stay up, and then when we go on another poor run at some stage next season sack him and start again. And do the same every year, just like we've done the past decade or two. And guess what, here we are back in 17th place in the championship. Worryingly, I think there are a few on here that would go for that option because they actually enjoy the mob mentality that goes with every poor run, it's interesting how several names only seem to post on here when, whoever the manager, we're on a poor run. It's a lot easier to be negative.

3. Try something different. Or at least, different since - as mentioned above - the days of Alan Dicks. I don't know what the stats will prove (probably nothing!) but I can just about remember the start of his time as manager and we struggled at the lower end of the old 2nd division for more than one season, and flirted with relegation at least once, but the board stuck with him and allowed him time to build a squad that eventually took us to the first division. 

[Davefevs]

14 minutes ago, spudski said:

So you've just presumed the players are baffled... How about LJ has given the players a bollocking for not pulling their weight and not performing as expected. How about he has told them a few home truths, and the players know they haven't been performing well enough. How many players throw their toys out of the pram and blame the manager, when it's their own performances that are at fault.

Plus you've chosen to understand 'Characters' as someone like GoN rather than Wilbs...funny how people will find negatives all the time, so as to make themselves feel better when results aren't going our way.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing...would you have thought Matthews, GoN and Tomlin would all under perform based on previous campaigns? Very harsh on any manager to think otherwise.

 

I thought GON would be our most astute signing (there was a thread where we were asked our top 5).  For Aug and early Sept that was true.

I've no idea what has gone wrong, losing confidence - is that the cause or the effect?

I've got no idea how LJ and the players turn it around.  Of course I'd suggest certain things.

It is a horrible period at the mo'.

At one point last night at 1-1, we'd had 10 shots, they'd had 5.  it ended up 14-11 (9-1 in that 20 minute spell).  Why is that?  Fitness? Sitting deep and inviting them on?  Making two changes at h-t, another through injury, thus no more changes possible?

I was praying we'd hold out, certainly not expecting us to go on and snatch the points.

What did LJ say in his interview?  I assume he blamed Moore for Pitman's winner?

[Dynamite Red]

21 minutes ago, spudski said:

So you've just presumed the players are baffled... How about LJ has given the players a bollocking for not pulling their weight and not performing as expected. How about he has told them a few home truths, and the players know they haven't been performing well enough. How many players throw their toys out of the pram and blame the manager, when it's their own performances that are at fault.

Plus you've chosen to understand 'Characters' as someone like GoN rather than Wilbs...funny how people will find negatives all the time, so as to make themselves feel better when results aren't going our way.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing...would you have thought Matthews, GoN and Tomlin would all under perform based on previous campaigns? Very harsh on any manager to think otherwise.

 

It is clearly obvious some of the players do not understand there roles on the team or wish to play there. On signing O'Neil LJ said.

City head coach Johnson said:

 

“Gary is a really good signing for us, who adds everything we need to our midfield.

 

“He’s very experienced, having won promotion from the Championship on four occasions. He may have just turned 33, but he’s still fully mobile and very fit.

 

“He’s a really good decision maker who can be a coach’s eyes and ears on the pitch, whilst also adding value to our younger players by helping us to manage games tactically – both in and out of possession.

 

“It’s important for us to get the balance right between youth and experience, and he’s a fantastic character to have around the club. I’m thoroughly looking forward to working with him.”

 

 

[REDOXO]

4 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Three pages in, plenty of criticism of just about everyone involved at the club, yes we're on a poor run, but still no answer to Spudski's fundamental question: who?

We've  basically got three choices. 

1. Sack LJ and appoint that manager who will guarantee that we'll not only turn it around this season, but make steady progress every game, without hiccups or poor runs, until we reach the promised land. But as yet no-one can come up with the name and clearly SL doesn't know who it is.

2. Sack LJ and appoint another manager, hopefully stay up, and then when we go on another poor run at some stage next season sack him and start again. And do the same every year, just like we've done the past decade or two. And guess what, here we are back in 17th place in the championship. Worryingly, I think there are a few on here that would go for that option because they actually enjoy the mob mentality that goes with every poor run, it's interesting how several names only seem to post on here when, whoever the manager, we're on a poor run. It's a lot easier to be negative.

3. Try something different. Or at least, different since - as mentioned above - the days of Alan Dicks. I don't know what the stats will prove (probably nothing!) but I can just about remember the start of his time as manager and we struggled at the lower end of the old 2nd division for more than one season, and flirted with relegation at least once, but the board stuck with him and allowed him time to build a squad that eventually took us to the first division. 

I mentioned in a chat yesterday what I think will happen. SL will be sitting in his living room on news years eve looking at his Mrs thinking what am I going to do and when

There is naff all today and tomorrow, but him JL will be on the blower to MA planning a meeting after Monday's game. 

If we win LJ will get a short stay of execution, however a defeat and depending on the manor of the defeat a board meeting will be called and LJ discharged. You heard it here first. 

John Pemberton will be promoted to first team head coach/manager. There is already a short list of possible managers in place and Pemberton will be on that short list. 

What ever anyone thinks we are an attractive club for quite a few managers with a track record. 20k gates a nice ground mega rich chairman, thus one or two I have noticed that have been ruled out can be very much ruled in. Then we approach.....  Rowett as he fits the model..Mystic Oxo!

[NickJ]

1 hour ago, Major Isewater said:

We bought in Tomlin , Golbourne ,O'Neil , Ekstrand  for the now .

It is evidently harder for an unfashionable club like ours to bring in quality and experience over youngsters on the up , not to mention that we needed numbers in the summer as our squad was threadbare.

Hopefully Ashton has had the time to ' court '  a couple of battle hardened pros,  with something left to give, and can bring them in straight away to help the kids.

Watch out for Richardson and Chamakh !  

Ha well Major, as for those "Now" signings.

Tomlin - bombed out of Bournemouth, did well here to begin with, SL probably got carried away and offered him more than anybody else. Great entertainer though.

Golbourne - was on his way here before LJ.

O'Neill - I had a chuckle to myself when many on here thought we'd lured him away from Norwich. Really? Out of contract, we offered more than Norwich.

Ekstrand - a Now signing? Really?

The only decent permanent Now signing you haven't mentioned, Magnusson.

 

[spudski]

10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I thought GON would be our most astute signing (there was a thread where we were asked our top 5).  For Aug and early Sept that was true.

I've no idea what has gone wrong, losing confidence - is that the cause or the effect?

I've got no idea how LJ and the players turn it around.  Of course I'd suggest certain things.

It is a horrible period at the mo'.

At one point last night at 1-1, we'd had 10 shots, they'd had 5.  it ended up 14-11 (9-1 in that 20 minute spell).  Why is that?  Fitness? Sitting deep and inviting them on?  Making two changes at h-t, another through injury, thus no more changes possible?

I was praying we'd hold out, certainly not expecting us to go on and snatch the points.

What did LJ say in his interview?  I assume he blamed Moore for Pitman's winner?

Watch the highlights for the winning goal mate...again a cross coming in from the right. Where did it start...Tomlin not tracking his man back. Watch from 1.47...Tomlins man kept going and running... Tomlin gave up and pointed...Bryan was already covering his man. You even notice Tomlin making a look in the direction of his man sprinting for the return pass...he checks himself and just jogs...******* lazy bastard or just not fir enough at this level. Bryan goes sprinting after Tomlins man...and even then Tomlin continues to jog back and not even cover the man Bryan has given him to mark. The ball could easily have been drawn back to that player as well for a clear shot on goal. Tomlin at fault imo...he's a ******* defensive liability. Little for the first was a ******* disgrace.Watch Freeman at 1.10 leave his man as well...schoolboy stuff...a joke.

 

[italian dave]

19 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

I mentioned in a chat yesterday what I think will happen. SL will be sitting in his living room on news years eve looking at his Mrs thinking what am I going to do and when

There is naff all today and tomorrow, but him JL will be on the blower to MA planning a meeting after Monday's game. 

If we win LJ will get a short stay of execution, however a defeat and depending on the manor of the defeat a board meeting will be called and LJ discharged. You heard it here first. 

John Pemberton will be promoted to first team head coach/manager. There is already a short list of possible managers in place and Pemberton will be on that short list. 

What ever anyone thinks we are an attractive club for quite a few managers with a track record. 20k gates a nice ground mega rich chairman, thus one or two I have noticed that have been ruled out can be very much ruled in. Then we approach.....  Rowett as he fits the model..Mystic Oxo!

And what then happens when, under Rowett, we go on a poor run next season? Or lose twice 7-1, or finish lower down the league in his second season in charge than the first, or fail in two play offs, all,of which happened already in Rowetts career! The knives would soon be out again on here!

[Red Exile]

Interesting if at times mildly depressing thread. Personally I enjoy reading both Ole and Spudski's calm and considered (usually!) and often bravely argued thoughts on how and why things are as they are...thanks to both.

I'm not remotely ITK but I wonder, in retrospect, whether a defining 60 seconds in our season were those at Hillsborough when Tomlin missed a penalty and O'Neil got sent off for a mistimed tackle. They threw away a win against one of the better sides in the division...it was their mistakes, not the youngsters. Must have dented their egos.

I'm not sure what any manager could have done about that. I've been a manager of creative types most of my working life. What I understand by "character" is the type who takes responsibility for both his performance and for raising the performance of those around him. Watch Wilbs in any match and he'll be encouraging and clapping and consoling. It's what I was expecting of GO'N. I imagine it was what LJ was expecting too...

[italian dave]

50 minutes ago, spudski said:

 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing...

 

Spud, an old manager of mine always said, and claimed it was an old Irish saying: hindsight is foresight for gobshites!!!

[Esmond Million's Bung]

13 minutes ago, spudski said:

Watch the highlights for the winning goal mate...again a cross coming in from the right. Where did it start...Tomlin not tracking his man back. Watch from 1.47...Tomlins man kept going and running... Tomlin gave up and pointed...Bryan was already covering his man. You even notice Tomlin making a look in the direction of his man sprinting for the return pass...he checks himself and just jogs...******* lazy bastard or just not fir enough at this level. Bryan goes sprinting after Tomlins man...and even then Tomlin continues to jog back and not even cover the man Bryan has given him to mark. The ball could easily have been drawn back to that player as well for a clear shot on goal. Tomlin at fault imo...he's a ******* defensive liability. Little for the first was a ******* disgrace.Watch Freeman at 1.10 leave his man as well...schoolboy stuff...a joke.

 

I will tell you what I observed from their winning goal our so called holding midfielder looking like he is running through treacle to get back and getting nowhere close to the action as usual and for the umpteenth time this season failing to recognise a midfield runner.

 

[REDOXO]

3 minutes ago, italian dave said:

And what then happens when, under Rowett, we go on a poor run next season? Or lose twice 7-1, or finish lower down the league in his second season in charge than the first, or fail in two play offs, all,of which happened already in Rowetts career! The knives would soon be out again on here!

Who knows my Crystal ball is unclear on anything past not getting relegated and to be frank I would let Pembo run with it if he starts well. My suggestion was based upon what I think will happen  

A poor run is three/four defeats  we have lost nine of the last ten (with decidedly dodgy form leading up to that) to teams that are not very good in most cases  read Wolves Ipswich Brentford PNE in fact which teams have we lost to that can be described as decent in that run. Maybe one/two. 

This is not a run of poor form this is a meltdown with millions spent sitting around the place and the likes of Korey looking like he would not care if he plays for us again, players playing out of position just waiting to give a soft goal. We are in relegation form and that is that and to be frank unless LJ has an epiphany we will continue to tumble  

Early in the season we moved the ball quickly pressurized defenses and looked capable. Now we are ponderous and scared. It is in front of us, is it not?

 

[spudski]

7 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

I will tell you what I observed from their winning goal our so called holding midfielder looking like he is running through treacle to get back and getting nowhere close to the action as usual and for the umpteenth time this season failing to recognise a midfield runner.

 

Can't blame him for any part of the goal conceded though mate. Tomlin at complete fault for it all.

[REDOXO]

14 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

Interesting if at times mildly depressing thread. Personally I enjoy reading both Ole and Spudski's calm and considered (usually!) and often bravely argued thoughts on how and why things are as they are...thanks to both.

I'm not remotely ITK but I wonder, in retrospect, whether a defining 60 seconds in our season were those at Hillsborough when Tomlin missed a penalty and O'Neil got sent off for a mistimed tackle. They threw away a win against one of the better sides in the division...it was their mistakes, not the youngsters. Must have dented their egos.

I'm not sure what any manager could have done about that. I've been a manager of creative types most of my working life. What I understand by "character" is the type who takes responsibility for both his performance and for raising the performance of those around him. Watch Wilbs in any match and he'll be encouraging and clapping and consoling. It's what I was expecting of GO'N. I imagine it was what LJ was expecting too...

Agree with a good deal of this. Those older ones will remember conceding a 95th minute equalizer at QPR IN OUR THIRD GAME OF THE SEASON offered as being the defining moment of the season in which we got relegated. 

I can't see GON a player with that experience allowing it to get under his skin for long, however what it might have done to others who knows. 

If it did effect anyone to a greater extent, please now get the **** over it!