So for all you 'sack the manager short termists'....

[bristolcitysweden]

Normally you would say things can't get any worse 2017 but this is Bristol City FC.

Enjoy it folks!

 

[bristolcitysweden]

A small reflection at this time of year. With Putin, Brexit & Trump this season can come to an end way before May.

[Frenchay Red]

10 minutes ago, bristolcitysweden said:

A small reflection at this time of year. With Putin, Brexit & Trump this season can come to an end way before May.

Theresa?

[RedRock]

1 hour ago, MigratedRobin said:

A lot of the success that teams have is down to confidence. A case in point for me would be Leicester City, who once they got on the run last season they started to believe they were invincible! That belief carried them to the Premiership title. This season they started on a pretty poor run and confidence within the team/fans/club/city disappeared. They are currently 6th from bottom. Pretty much the same team and the same manager.

Agree with confidence, but also playing for eachother as a team. 

My gravest concern over the last couple of months is that we don't look like a team, just a bunch of individuals playing together in the same coloured shirts. How many cases do you see of 'he was your man' arm waving, all the bad body language signals are out there. We are in serious trouble and have been for a number of weeks. It should have been nipped in the bud, testing 3-5-2 early doors would have been useful (accepting that was asking an awful lot of Wilbs), developing a winning sequence/mentality in the Under-23's and feeding in some of those 'high in confidence' players may have helped. 

SL model's fine, in theory. Have a spine of older, experienced players and develop youngsters around them. Sell some on for handsome profit, keep others and continually improve. With FFP and the need for prudent financial management, a very sensible and logical approach.

However, our spine - Franky, Flint, GON, Tomlin and Wilbs - is misfiring, our academy, scouting system, coaching, management and financial systems rarely have ever been and certainly now, fall a long way short of being fit for purpose. I thought we had turned the corner, for the first time in decades players were actually developing and improving their game, but when you look at the likes of the Engvall saga we fall so far short of what is required for the model to be a success it's embarrassing. 

My hope for this season is we survive. Frankly, I'd be delighted to settle now for staying up on goal difference.  SL can then decide whether there's a need for the personnel or strategy to change and by what measure. 

The roller coaster continues.

Sticking with it and just about 'believing' but please LJ, don't turn out to be the 'son of SoD'. 

 

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

4 hours ago, bristolcitysweden said:

Hang the LJ 

 

Tommy on form.

[Bobfish]

I think those early in the thread comparing our summer transfer spending to other championship teams are missing a very important point: Their managers are adding to championship quality teams, whilst we are adding to a league one quality team. They are improving teams which have championship quality throughout their squads, whilst ours does not. This may be why so many are complaining about LJ’s philosophy in the same breath as they complain at how players lump the ball upfield (sorry flint), realising that these are incompatible. Do you think LJ says to pack “don’t bother passing it upfield, just pass it sideways then back to flint so he can lump it?” No one would play one upfront if that was intended. That is the definition of old 442 that many are calling for (I prefer the 442 diamond). No wonder Tomlin and GON are getting vocal – they are used to playing with players of a higher quality throughout the team. Do you think Tomlin wants to come deep to get the ball because he is getting such poor service? Do you think he is happy at seeing his passes, which read the game so well, trickling to nothing because so many are the squad just aren’t up to his level? Perhaps GON’s desire to become a coach will make him happier to play alongside the young Brownhill, one who he might feel he will be able to develop, rather than pack or smith.

I have mentioned on another thread how LJ and SL may have planned for the first half of the season to be a chance for the league one players to step up to this modern style of play, a style LJ couldn’t risk during a relegation battle last season. I wish LJ had been our manager in league one instead of cotts, because that less demanding league could have been used to build a team that plays together in a manner that could then progress into the championship – like the team at Barnsley LJ built has – rather than a team made by cotts to coast through league one with no thought of progression. Our frailties are shown all too clearly when the goals dry up; Tammy/Kodjia’s brilliance hid the deficiencies in midfield and defence. In league one these deficiencies didn’t matter, but in the championship they are punished. How many times have we seen the same goals conceded this and last season? Penetration through the middle due to a weak midfield. Counter attack due to slow defenders and keeper rooted to his line. Crosses due to limited full backs who can either attack or defend, but not do both.

I think the activity of this transfer window may show us what LJ really feels about the team, as I guess he has had to hold his tongue more often than he would like. Perhaps this is also why Brownhill, Moore, and even O’dowda seem to be getting more game time now, probably earlier than intended. Perhaps this is also why so many of our current team fold – they realise they have failed to measure up.

I still have faith in LJ, but that faith has been fed with the hope of serious activity in this window, tempered with the prospect of our summer signings breaking into the team during the rest of the season. SL is going to have to let LJ break some eggs, funding a few replacements with technical ability to play this high pressing, possession, passing game, or keep our current lot and revert to ugly, direct football, because this poor run shows that our league one team struggle to do more. I’m not saying the whole squad needs replacing, but players of technical ability and football intelligence will need to be the norm, not the exception, to play this modern style.

And with the Tomlin comments, yeah he may not defend well, but he is one of the only players in our team who can read the game, take on a player, or pass a ball. If we had a strong squad we could do without him, but we don't. If we had a structured team that could soak up pressure and grind out results then we could drop him, but we don't. If we had fast wingers who can cross (or chose to use them) then we could drop him, but we don't. We are lacking bite as it is, don't take out the only teeth we have.

[Swede]

23 hours ago, spudski said:

...Come on then...what manager would guarantee wins in this league with the squad we have?

You all seem to know the budget we have to play with, and what players are available in January. Of course any new manager will have an endless budget, will be able to bring in anyone...it's just like going shopping in Tesco's  when doing your shopping don't you know...you can buy and loan whoever you want. You'll have already lined up players to release, and already done work with scouts, other managers and Agents in negotiating new deals. Easy isn't it...just bring them in, like we did last time we were in this position. Of course there are no more limitations to loans like before. Just go in and pick em off a shelf....

We must be absolutely crap...lose to Ipswich who have been in this division for 15 years.

Above Forest and Blackburn, Cardiff and QPR....how crap at this level must they be. Don't get me on the run Norwich are having with all their experience, money and players...we must be really crap.

Yep...two seasons up, with a rookie manager and very average Championship squad...who the hell do we think we are?

Get a bloody grip. when you look at those teams struggling...it shows how easy this league is right????

Exactly half way through the season and 17th....about right...no?

January window coming up...believe...it's no good moaning and thinking we have a divine right to do better. So many teams far better off than us, financially, player wise, and experience and all struggling.

I couldn't have put it any better myself.

Some fans need to wake up and smell the coffee and get off "Ron Manager 2017" or whatever it is computer game they play, its not as simple as that.

[RedRock]

14 minutes ago, Bobfish said:

I think those early in the thread comparing our summer transfer spending to other championship teams are missing a very important point: Their managers are adding to championship quality teams, whilst we are adding to a league one quality team. They are improving teams which have championship quality throughout their squads, whilst ours does not. This may be why so many are complaining about LJ’s philosophy in the same breath as they complain at how players lump the ball upfield (sorry flint), realising that these are incompatible. Do you think LJ says to pack “don’t bother passing it upfield, just pass it sideways then back to flint so he can lump it?” No one would play one upfront if that was intended. That is the definition of old 442 that many are calling for (I prefer the 442 diamond). No wonder Tomlin and GON are getting vocal – they are used to playing with players of a higher quality throughout the team. Do you think Tomlin wants to come deep to get the ball because he is getting such poor service? Do you think he is happy at seeing his passes, which read the game so well, trickling to nothing because so many are the squad just aren’t up to his level? Perhaps GON’s desire to become a coach will make him happier to play alongside the young Brownhill, one who he might feel he will be able to develop, rather than pack or smith.

I have mentioned on another thread how LJ and SL may have planned for the first half of the season to be a chance for the league one players to step up to this modern style of play, a style LJ couldn’t risk during a relegation battle last season. I wish LJ had been our manager in league one instead of cotts, because that less demanding league could have been used to build a team that plays together in a manner that could then progress into the championship – like the team at Barnsley LJ built has – rather than a team made by cotts to coast through league one with no thought of progression. Our frailties are shown all too clearly when the goals dry up; Tammy/Kodjia’s brilliance hid the deficiencies in midfield and defence. In league one these deficiencies didn’t matter, but in the championship they are punished. How many times have we seen the same goals conceded this and last season? Penetration through the middle due to a weak midfield. Counter attack due to slow defenders and keeper rooted to his line. Crosses due to limited full backs who can either attack or defend, but not do both.

 

 

I think the activity of this transfer window may show us what LJ really feels about the team, as I guess he has had to hold his tongue more often than he would like. Perhaps this is also why Brownhill, Moore, and even O’dowda seem to be getting more game time now, probably earlier than intended. Perhaps this is also why so many of our current team fold – they realise they have failed to measure up.

I still have faith in LJ, but that faith has been fed with the hope of serious activity in this window, tempered with the prospect of our summer signings breaking into the team during the rest of the season. SL is going to have to let LJ break some eggs, funding a few replacements with technical ability to play this high pressing, possession, passing game, or keep our current lot and revert to ugly, direct football, because this poor run shows that our league one team struggle to do more. I’m not saying the whole squad needs replacing, but players of technical ability and football intelligence will need to be the norm, not the exception, to play this modern style.

 

And with the Tomlin comments, yeah he may not defend well, but he is one of the only players in our team who can read the game, take on a player, or pass a ball. If we had a strong squad we could do without him, but we don't. If we had a structured team that could soak up pressure and grind out results then we could drop him, but we don't. If we had fast wingers who can cross (or chose to use them) then we could drop him, but we don't. We are lacking bite as it is, don't take out the only teeth we have.

Interesting perspective. That said, we ripped Huddersfield apart on the final game of the season - they couldn't live with us. They've moved on, we've gone backwards. 

One of the Barnsley fans mentioned their entire squad in League 1 or 2 players. They're not shabby this season either. 

Cotts believed SL when he said Premiership in a couple of years. If - and we know he failed and had no Plan B - he managed to secure the big name signings I think we'd be a lot closer than we are now to that view objective.

[Davefevs]

7 hours ago, spudski said:

Mate...with respect...Where is our DM ahead of Tomlin when the move breaks down? He's 3 yards inside our half, whilst tomlin is on the halfway line near the touchline.

Tomlin and Bryan have their players...Brownhill his...and Flint and Moore are covering one man...Pitman in the box.

No way can you blame our DM for that...where else would you expect him to be? He's not meant to be in the box with one man in there...he's covering any midfield runner. Brownhill is covering the only one that made a run.

Sorry mae...but you are completely wrong in your analysis of the winning goal. Complete balls up by Tomlin.

Do you think Moore thinks he has done enough to cover `Pitman, but the ball being slightly behind Pitman allowed his wonderful finish.  Had it been a yard closer our goal, Moore would've got a challenge in.

Certainly not our CMs fault.  Pack sprints back, Brownhill, initially jogging, sprints to track his man.

[Olé]

13 hours ago, Bobfish said:

[Lots of interesting stuff]

@Bobfish - please don't take this the wrong way as it's meant as a compliment, but I read your post and thought "that's Lee Johnson writing that". In fact the more I read, the more I started to imagine that LJ doesn't have an outlet to get his real point of view across and sneaked on here and wrote that. Because it's certainly the most interesting, well thought out and reasonable justification of what the manager is trying to do, and why present problems are not his fault.

I've said all along the approach is so confusing, we desperately need LJ to come out and explain it. Perhaps this type of critique would never see the light of day in public. Now, it is January 1st not April 1st and I realise there is a very low probability you're actually LJ, but you've written something that is welcome and for me genuinely thought provoking. I follow your logic on all points made and you are certainly capturing things that are happening out there on the pitch.

I would challenge the notion of League 1 versus Championship, for me that's been an easy excuse to use whenever needed. Other teams have come up and pushed on with the same players and while I totally agree that Kodjia/Tammy have hid deficiencies in our team, we were not L1 in the end last year at the back end of the season, I don't think it's fair to cast all our players as incompatible L1 quality. Add to it this season our signings should have been division ready.

Additionally, the idea the players are unable to play to LJ's instructions and are personally choosing to retreat and then lump it forward, I really struggle with, as I've seen these players all individually play more brightly and with more ability, this hesitancy is unnatural/un-instinctive to them. Nonetheless you make a very logical argument of where the problems are and what LJ is trying to do. By "breaking eggs" do you mean an experimental, buy/test/replace transfer strategy?

Really well articulated contribution - you should really be posting more than 24 times (unless you really are LJ!!)

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, Olé said:

@Bobfish - please don't take this the wrong way as it's meant as a compliment, but I read your post and thought "that's Lee Johnson writing that". In fact the more I read, the more I started to imagine that LJ doesn't have an outlet to get his real point of view across and sneaked on here and wrote that. Because it's certainly the most interesting, well thought out and reasonable justification of what the manager is trying to do, and why present problems are not his fault.

I've said all along the approach is so confusing, we desperately need LJ to come out and explain it. Perhaps this type of critique would never see the light of day in public. Now, it is January 1st not April 1st and I realise there is a very low probability you're actually LJ, but you've written something that is welcome and for me genuinely thought provoking. I follow your logic on all points made and you are certainly capturing things that are happening out there on the pitch.

I would challenge the notion of League 1 versus Championship, for me that's been an easy excuse to use whenever needed. Other teams have come up and pushed on with the same players and while I totally agree that Kodjia/Tammy have hid deficiencies in our team, we were not L1 in the end last year at the back end of the season, I don't think it's fair to cast all our players as incompatible L1 quality. Add to it this season our signings should have been division ready.

Additionally, the idea the players are unable to play to LJ's instructions and are personally choosing to retreat and then lump it forward, I really struggle with, as I've seen these players all individually play more brightly and with more ability, this hesitancy is unnatural/un-instinctive to them. Nonetheless you make a very logical argument of where the problems are and what LJ is trying to do. By "breaking eggs" do you mean an experimental, buy/test/replace transfer strategy?

Really well articulated contribution - you should really be posting more than 24 times (unless you really are LJ!!)

Tend to agree with much of this and @Bobfish's post.

Others call it making excuses.

What I think you are both saying is similar to what I've been saying, but I think you've put it better.

I think LJ thought that the signings of GON, Tomlin, O'Neil and to some extent Matthews meant that we were well placed to continue the form from the end of last season, and recruitment could focus on players with potential, who could take 6-12 months to get up to speed.

Going back to the team that finished strongly:

Magnússon has done really well (up to the last 3/4 games, but he is not Nathan Baker (yet).  Baker guided Flint through a tough baptism at this level.  Do not tar his season with us by a couple of red mist performances - a set of very underrated performances for a player who has bad back problems.

Korey Smith is a shadow of the player pre-injury. Expect LJ saw a midfield of a tigerish KS with the Prem experience go GON alongside him as an upside.

Matthews - well documented

Kodjia - Tammy has done better goals-wise, but Kodjia gave us something different.  Would've liked to see LJ work out the conundrum of fitting JK,TA and LT into his line-up.  Tammy has been a big plus.

Bryan - at either LB or LW has not hit the heights

Tomlin - inconsistent and overall not as good as last season

There are probably another couple that be equally compared.

So LJ's 7-10th form team last season haven't reached those heights over the season so far, and therefore we've become a lower team again, despite the early promise.  The shocking run is not helping.

I don't think we had a League One squad (very small squad), but the good players have to turn in good performances for us to reach the height of the second half of last season.

A return to form of a couple of players or the introduction of a couple of new faces who hit the ground running will see a change.

I didn't think we'd go down under Cotts, and I don't think we will this season, but I think its going to be less of a push-on (even stagnation) than I thought.  Its a brutal division.

[Bobfish]

59 minutes ago, Olé said:

@Bobfish - please don't take this the wrong way as it's meant as a compliment, but I read your post and thought "that's Lee Johnson writing that". In fact the more I read, the more I started to imagine that LJ doesn't have an outlet to get his real point of view across and sneaked on here and wrote that. Because it's certainly the most interesting, well thought out and reasonable justification of what the manager is trying to do, and why present problems are not his fault.

I've said all along the approach is so confusing, we desperately need LJ to come out and explain it. Perhaps this type of critique would never see the light of day in public. Now, it is January 1st not April 1st and I realise there is a very low probability you're actually LJ, but you've written something that is welcome and for me genuinely thought provoking. I follow your logic on all points made and you are certainly capturing things that are happening out there on the pitch.

I would challenge the notion of League 1 versus Championship, for me that's been an easy excuse to use whenever needed. Other teams have come up and pushed on with the same players and while I totally agree that Kodjia/Tammy have hid deficiencies in our team, we were not L1 in the end last year at the back end of the season, I don't think it's fair to cast all our players as incompatible L1 quality. Add to it this season our signings should have been division ready.

Additionally, the idea the players are unable to play to LJ's instructions and are personally choosing to retreat and then lump it forward, I really struggle with, as I've seen these players all individually play more brightly and with more ability, this hesitancy is unnatural/un-instinctive to them. Nonetheless you make a very logical argument of where the problems are and what LJ is trying to do. By "breaking eggs" do you mean an experimental, buy/test/replace transfer strategy?

Really well articulated contribution - you should really be posting more than 24 times (unless you really are LJ!!)

No I am not LJ, I am older than him and if Oliver is your first name then you might be who I think you are and attended the same year as me in Hanham High School. Plus I would like to see a 4-4-2 diamond played more! That would require actual full backs though.

To try and clarify, I described our “old guard” as league one standard as I think Cott’s team was bought for the “now” (i.e then - league one) whilst the team LJ constructed at Barnsley was built for “the now and near future” (i.e. then, today, and beyond.) That is why their mainly young side were able to adapt better to the championship (cheaply too), utilising a style they already learnt to play together in league one, whilst our “near or at their peak players” are struggling to adapt effectively to the championship whilst playing this new style. This lack of “potential,” and what I mean by that is the space to grow and adapt, is also no doubt what the young summer signings had tried to address whilst remaining loyal enough to give the “old guard” a chance to step up. Whilst Pack has improved somewhat, especially at the end of last season (overtaking korey, although he still makes daft mistakes), I would arguably say that only Reid has “stepped up,” whilst we all, and no doubt LJ, hoped that the young Freeman and Bryan could do this too. I am not trying to say the remaining players are terrible, just that they struggle to play this new style (to them) for 94 mins at championship level – if this high pressing, possession etc etc had been adopted in league one, where mistakes are not savagely punished, then they may have adapted well enough to then bring it into the championship successfully (like Barnsley). By breaking eggs, I mean that SL either has to give up the philosophy he signed LJ for and resort to a more direct and bland style, hoping for just above relegation for a year or two, or open his wallet and allow LJ to replace a few players with those that are technically able enough to play this modern style under the pressure and pace of the championship. Adopting a new philosophy like our club did at championship level was always going to make things worse before they got better as the squad tries to adapt and the cracks show. To be fair, the five pillars etc was implemented a long time ago, but not “convincingly” at the management level. I am not trying to say Cott’s is to blame for our current predicament, but Barnsley is a good example of how progression could have been achieved, cheaply, if all had read from the same page.

 

[Bobfish]

26 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

I can agree with some of the sentiment, but to suggest LJ would have prepared us better by having been in charge in L1 is pushing it a bit. He has persisted in playing Tomlin (who was terrible for that second goal, and is every bit the same player as JET , Noble or Trundle when trying to set the team up) , he has spent (with the rest of the club strategy team) 6m plus on players who are nowhere near first team regulars (BCFC spending  6M on youth when as you say we don't have a first team. We are not Chelsea) . If what you say is correct  that this was a chance for the L1 players to show they can cope at this level, why then start the season with those young players who have been shown to be slow to adapt? . He has confused players, pulls them all in and out of the squad at will, and even if we are not world beaters, is not getting the best out of the players available. It is widely recognised at Barnsley the team only started winning when injuries forced his hand. He openly criticised Moore on Saturday, to the media. Any idea what that does behind the scenes ?Even worse for a 19 year old guy making his league debut . I am all for LJ getting this job right, he has some bright ideas , and is part of taking this club into the modern world. But he is as far off being the finished article as any of the players he was involved in signing, the teams he puts out and the tactics he employs and his man management skills. At the moment he is closer to being a SOD (who was a total disaster) than Eddie Howe who I assume is the dream we are chasing. I am totally with the work MA is doing and the changes to scouting and recruitment. I remain very much undecided that we have the coaching staff to bring out the best of the players we have available and the experience and skills to deliver the project we have in mind. However I do want them to succeed as I believe this experience will make them a better off the field team too, and in that we can benefit going forward. With 27 points and 22 games to go we should not go down though we risk being bottom 4 or 5 and fighting a battle we certainly did not envisage in August . It is not an easy league, but we have made it much harder on our own. 

I agree with a lot of what you say and believe he is not getting the best out of the players we have available, which is why I think this transfer window may be an opportunity for us to see what he really feels about the team. Whilst I do like LJ, I disagree with a lot of things; I feel we should play two up front in a 442 diamond, or if we do play with one up front we need fast wingers (left footed on left and right footed on right) like o’dowda given free reign to punch through the defensive lines and cross. I feel for LJ though as he was signed to play one way and has a squad that mostly can’t play that way. At the start this change of style gave us an “unknown” edge, which with Tammy’s fitness etc enabled us to get a good few points and win many games that perhaps we had no right to. Yet our frailties became evident and teams took advantage of this from Cardiff on. So LJ has had to try to adapt, altering to a flat 442 and playing Tomlin out of position, much to the player’s annoyance, hoping to grind out results and defend our weaknesses. We may have won that game, but we looked so ineffective that he has tried to switch back to the previous style he was signed as head coach to implement. I agree that he has chopped and changed a lot, giving numerous players a chance for every position, but Cott’s was at fault for not doing this. I assume this chopping and changing was to properly evaluate the players under pressure, who to keep and who to prune, but the transfer window will reveal if this guestimate is true. I have no inside information. As I scientist, I try to see order in chaos.

This month will hopefully reveal the intended plan and we will sign a few players of championship level who can play this style, release some deadwood, and then he will be able to have something closer to a consistent first team and formation. Then the young ones who were given a few games for experience earlier in the season (I think this was what you were referring to) can force their way into the team like I hope Brownhill has done.

I didn’t hear the Moore comments, unfortunately, but I agree it is far from productive. I guess LJ has been holding his tongue about too many players for too long; I am surprised that Moore was on the receiving end of a tongue lashing though. Perhaps his faults were on something they had worked hard on in a 1-1 in training? Or perhaps he is trying to prepare Moore for the OTIB haters that will turn their attention to him now that Magners is injured?  

[stokes7]

21 hours ago, REDOXO said:

The bloke interviewed on Radio Brizz post game last night, (NTTDS?) did exactly that.

Well I'm obviously not the only one who thinks it

[spudski]

21 minutes ago, Bobfish said:

I agree with a lot of what you say and believe he is not getting the best out of the players we have available, which is why I think this transfer window may be an opportunity for us to see what he really feels about the team. Whilst I do like LJ, I disagree with a lot of things; I feel we should play two up front in a 442 diamond, or if we do play with one up front we need fast wingers (left footed on left and right footed on right) like o’dowda given free reign to punch through the defensive lines and cross. I feel for LJ though as he was signed to play one way and has a squad that mostly can’t play that way. At the start this change of style gave us an “unknown” edge, which with Tammy’s fitness etc enabled us to get a good few points and win many games that perhaps we had no right to. Yet our frailties became evident and teams took advantage of this from Cardiff on. So LJ has had to try to adapt, altering to a flat 442 and playing Tomlin out of position, much to the player’s annoyance, hoping to grind out results and defend our weaknesses. We may have won that game, but we looked so ineffective that he has tried to switch back to the previous style he was signed as head coach to implement. I agree that he has chopped and changed a lot, giving numerous players a chance for every position, but Cott’s was at fault for not doing this. I assume this chopping and changing was to properly evaluate the players under pressure, who to keep and who to prune, but the transfer window will reveal if this guestimate is true. I have no inside information. As I scientist, I try to see order in chaos.

 

This month will hopefully reveal the intended plan and we will sign a few players of championship level who can play this style, release some deadwood, and then he will be able to have something closer to a consistent first team and formation. Then the young ones who were given a few games for experience earlier in the season (I think this was what you were referring to) can force their way into the team like I hope Brownhill has done.

 

 

I didn’t hear the Moore comments, unfortunately, but I agree it is far from productive. I guess LJ has been holding his tongue about too many players for too long; I am surprised that Moore was on the receiving end of a tongue lashing though. Perhaps his faults were on something they had worked hard on in a 1-1 in training? Or perhaps he is trying to prepare Moore for the OTIB haters that will turn their attention to him now that Magners is injured?  

 

LJ's preferred system is 442....reading between the lines of his recent comments, he wants to try and establish this system.

He wants a younger version of Wilbs up front, and some stronger physical strength in midfield.

His recent comments alluded to bringing a couple players straight into the first 11, who will bring Physicality, experience, athleticism and mobility.

If he intends to do this with Tammy and a 'Wilbs' type up front, we still have the 'problem' of Tomlin...who is creative...but neither Physical, athletic, mobile or with endurance.

That leaves three others in midfield who need to bring all the aforementioned attributes.

I can see a new signing coming in, who will be a 'Cisse' type defensive midfielder, and LJ will utilise players we already have in the squad, to fill the other two midfield positions.

I also wouldn't be surprised if Matty Taylor didn't end up here as well.

[samo II]

A lot of whether you think LJ's goose is cooked comes down to personal philosophy tbh.

Some on here look at the number of Ls in our recent results column and believe this indicates time is up, as five defeats on the spin regardless of circumstances is terrible (and it is; no denying), so change is required.

Some look at our situation now compared to last season and see it is improved, so want to stay the course to see what LJ can do to turn short term form around.

Neither perspective is wrong per say; just different ways of looking at things.

My personal view is we now have three home games in a row (which I believe is a first this campaign; we've played 16 away games to 12 home in all competitions so far, so this goes some to levelling that), and we'll need points/wins to prove we've the base-line from which LJ should be building from.

Basically; felt we needed a minimum of two points from the Ipswich and Reading games for LJ to make the case he can turn this around - he now needs a win against a form side to achieve this.

Alongside that; nothing but a first game win against Fleetwood will do for me in the FA Cup.  Yes; Fleetwood are in great form (unbeaten in nine; could be ten by their game with us) and this is by no means a given.  But we've beaten auto promotion contenders Scunthorpe away earlier this campaign in the cup, so not beating a lesser side from the same division now and at home doesn't signal progress.  The opposite in fact.

If we manage an unlikely win or maybe a positive performance and draw with Reading, and move past Fleetwood first time of asking, then I again think Cardiff is an acid test.

Even if Reading beat us and Cardiff win, goal difference will likely keep them just below us.  To lose to them, as a side below us in the table, in turmoil and actively fighting against slipping into the drop zone; this would indicate to me we are in a position that demands more drastic action.

That's my position.  Hopefully in that time we can also see some exciting and encouraging signings, as feel these are needed.  But it's a results business, and tomorrow plus Fleetwood are (for me at least) the true test of whether when pressure is on, LJ can turn a slump around.

Some on here are convinced he cannot; I can't be sure either way TBH - results on his record say he did at Barnsley, while rumours are that wasn't his doing.  Who truely can speak the truth on that?

I do hope he does; his father become public enemy number one on here during his early term losing streak much like LJ has, but it ended up defining his successful period, as the changes it allowed him to make drove us up a division and nearly to the Premier League.  

Fingers-crossed (which feels like all we can do now) he manages it, and late winter/spring 2017 looks much like it did last year results wise.

[MarkRed!]

The reality is that questions have to be asked of the owners and those advising the owner. This is not a criticism of SL per se, as no one could criticise his commitment to the club. However, the decision making has been woeful in a number of areas including youth development, ticketing, merchandise and the 1st team. In the first instance, LJ should never have been appointed. He has no real track record and had modest records with Oldham and Barnsley. Hardly had the experience to walk into BCFC and lead us to the PL which is what SL has publicly said is his aim!  Ashton talks a good game but his silence has been surprising given that he is ultimately LJ's boss.

There is reported discontent at LJ's decisions by senior players and it was reported in social media that he has lost the dressing room. I am not sure that this this is the case but performances have been unacceptable from a number of key players including Tomlin, Flint, Bryan, Matthews, Freeman. Freeman and Tomlin are not fit and look too heavy.  They should all be dropped.  LJ's tactics have been all over the place and we must have played almost every conceivable formation going. This has not helped create a settled 11 and a consistent approach.

We talked up a good game about our summer recruitment but for me the jury is out big time:

Lucic - for the future

O'Odowda - not really played.

Brownhill - not really played but played well in both XMAS games.

Paterson - looked a great signing but then has not played.

Engvall - disgraceful that we have spent millions on him and he has not had a kick.

Moore - Not played.

O' Neill - average but cannot play in a 2.

Abraham - huge hit.

Magnusson - huge hit.

Matthews - what has gone wrong?

Tomlin - has not turned up enough. Flashes of quality but he has been all too often marooned on the left flank.

Thus, essentially whilst it may look like we have strengthened the squad we have not necessarily improved the first 11, which was in a relegation battle for all of last season. Why are people therefore surprised at the current position. This is where we should learn from what SC was saying. His view appeared to be that he only wanted to bring in players who would improve the first 11. We have not done this.

Changing the manager does not work in the long term and the board's record on managerial appointments is woeful. In the past 16 years we have had 9 managers (never a good sign). 

A lot of threads have talked up Gary Rowett - his record - win ratio 39.6 from 106 games. Johnson's is currently at 40.9% from 44 games (all in the Championship). I am no fan of LJ but he is the manager and he should be given time to turn it around. We are not cast adrift and we are not even in the bottom 3.  He should be backed in January. Lets judge him at the end of the season. If we go down then  we have to accept we were not good enough (at all levels of the club). Constantly changing the manager does not create stability and leads to the kind of chaos we witnessed during the ill fated Coppell, Millen, McInnes and O'driscoll period. That was leading us all the way into League 2. Lets create a cauldron at the gate and get behind LJ and the team.

 

[Nogbad the Bad]

1 hour ago, Bobfish said:

 

To try and clarify, I described our “old guard” as league one standard as I think Cott’s team was bought for the “now” (i.e then - league one) whilst the team LJ constructed at Barnsley was built for “the now and near future” (i.e. then, today, and beyond.)T That is why their mainly young side were able to adapt better to the championship (cheaply too), utilising a style they already learnt to play together in league one, whilst our “near or at their peak players” are struggling to adapt effectively to the championship whilst playing this new style. This lack of “potential,” and what I mean by that is the space to grow and adapt, is also no doubt what the young summer signings had tried to address whilst remaining loyal enough to give the “old guard” a chance to step up. Whilst Pack has improved somewhat, especially at the end of last season (overtaking korey, although he still makes daft mistakes), I would arguably say that only Reid has “stepped up,” whilst we all, and no doubt LJ, hoped that the young Freeman and Bryan could do this too. I am not trying to say the remaining players are terrible, just that they struggle to play this new style (to them) for 94 mins at championship level – if this high pressing, possession etc etc had been adopted in league one, where mistakes are not savagely punished, then they may have adapted well enough to then bring it into the championship successfully (like Barnsley). By breaking eggs, I mean that SL either has to give up the philosophy he signed LJ for and resort to a more direct and bland style, hoping for just above relegation for a year or two, or open his wallet and allow LJ to replace a few players with those that are technically able enough to play this modern style under the pressure and pace of the championship. Adopting a new philosophy like our club did at championship level was always going to make things worse before they got better as the squad tries to adapt and the cracks show. To be fair, the five pillars etc was implemented a long time ago, but not “convincingly” at the management level. I am not trying to say Cott’s is to blame for our current predicament, but Barnsley is a good example of how progression could have been achieved, cheaply, if all had read from the same page.

SC did not buy for the here and now,

Much was said in the Summer of '14 of how he was recruiting some of the best young, or youngish, players from L1, players with potential like Freeman, Agard, Ayling, and Korey who were fully expected to have a very good chance of maturing into solid Championship performers should Cotts. take his young City team up. Backed up by astute older signings in Wilbs. and Wade, and several younger players already at the club, i.e. Fielding, Bryan, Pack, Flint and Williams.

When you say 'SL might have to give up the philosophy he signed LJ for' are you suggesting SL himself has a philosophy on how he wants to see Bristol City play, and LJ fitting that was part of the reason he was taken on? You seem to when you say 'resort to a more direct and bland style.'

You'd have thought SL would have been ecstatic to see SC's team storm to the Championship playing organised, aggressive, attacking and entertaining football and done everything in his power to enable his 'Winner' to establish BCFC in the the Championship by backing the necessary upgrading of several players, thereby helping the youngsters to make the step up and play to their best, and for the club to make it's mark at the higher level with it's own already established brand of exciting football.

Nobody, including SL, (who seemed to hate the SO'D era as much as the rest of us) wanted a regression to the tippy tappy O'Driscoll yawnfest, surely?

 

[screech]

6 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

SC did not buy for the here and now,

Much was said in the Summer of '14 of how he was recruiting some of the best young, or youngish, players from L1, players with potential like Freeman, Agard, Ayling, and Korey who were fully expected to have a very good chance of maturing into solid Championship performers should Cotts. take his young City team up. Backed up by astute older signings in Wilbs. and Wade, and several younger players already at the club, i.e. Fielding, Bryan, Pack, Flint and Williams.

When you say 'SL might have to give up the philosophy he signed LJ for' are you suggesting SL himself has a philosophy on how he wants to see Bristol City play, and LJ fitting that was part of the reason he was taken on? You seem to when you say 'resort to a more direct and bland style.'

You'd have thought SL would have been ecstatic to see SC's team storm to the Championship playing organised, aggressive, attacking and entertaining football and done everything in his power to enable his 'Winner' to establish BCFC in the the Championship by backing the necessary upgrading of several players, thereby helping the youngsters to make the step up and play to their best, and for the club to make it's mark at the higher level with it's own already established brand of exciting football.

Nobody, including SL, (who seemed to hate the SO'D era as much as the rest of us) wanted a regression to the tippy tappy O'Driscoll yawnfest, surely?

 

Agree with that, It's just not true to suggest Cotterill bought for the here and now, add Derrick Williams to your list above as well as Joe Bryan and our double winning side was very youthful. The poster is trying to rewrite history to suit an argument.

Cotterill had us playing in an attractive style and had us winning games in league 1, we don't have a style at the moment, it's lucky dip who'll be in the side this week and none of it is based on form or lack of. Scott Golbourne is a case in point, Marlon pack is another who can play really well and find himself substituted. It looks like chaos from the stands.

 

[Nogbad the Bad]

1 hour ago, samo II said:

I do hope he does; his father become public enemy number one on here during his early term losing streak much like LJ has, but it ended up defining his successful period, as the changes it allowed him to make drove us up a division and nearly to the Premier League.  

Fingers-crossed (which feels like all we can do now) he manages it, and late winter/spring 2017 looks much like it did last year results wise.

Sorry Samo, that's just not true.

Most City fans were right behind GJ during that run, accepting the poisonous dressing room he'd inherited needed to be sorted out once and for all, and were willing to bear short term pain while he did the necessary.

If you were on OTIB at the time you'd remember that the vast majority were very supportive during that run.

 

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

37 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

SC did not buy for the here and now,

Much was said in the Summer of '14 of how he was recruiting some of the best young, or youngish, players from L1, players with potential like Freeman, Agard, Ayling, and Korey who were fully expected to have a very good chance of maturing into solid Championship performers should Cotts. take his young City team up. Backed up by astute older signings in Wilbs. and Wade, and several younger players already at the club, i.e. Fielding, Bryan, Pack, Flint and Williams.

When you say 'SL might have to give up the philosophy he signed LJ for' are you suggesting SL himself has a philosophy on how he wants to see Bristol City play, and LJ fitting that was part of the reason he was taken on? You seem to when you say 'resort to a more direct and bland style.'

You'd have thought SL would have been ecstatic to see SC's team storm to the Championship playing organised, aggressive, attacking and entertaining football and done everything in his power to enable his 'Winner' to establish BCFC in the the Championship by backing the necessary upgrading of several players, thereby helping the youngsters to make the step up and play to their best, and for the club to make it's mark at the higher level with it's own already established brand of exciting football.

Nobody, including SL, (who seemed to hate the SO'D era as much as the rest of us) wanted a regression to the tippy tappy O'Driscoll yawnfest, surely?

 

Its hardly a tippy tappy yawnfest when we are creating plenty of chances now is it?

We're creating enough chances to win games 2 or 3 times over, they are simply not being converted.

In regards to SC we saw plenty of regression on the pitch, it was poor... we conceded at an alarming rate and the goals were drying up especially in the last 3 months  plus your philosophy of what SC deemed about here and now players conflicts with the die hards of SC who said he bought for here and now (I happen to agree he bought some players as a long term investment) 

[samo II]

5 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Sorry Samo, that's just not true.

Most City fans were right behind GJ during that run, accepting the poisonous dressing room he'd inherited needed to be sorted out once and for all, and were willing to bear short term pain while he did the necessary.

If you were on OTIB at the time you'd remember that the vast majority were very supportive during that run.

I was here, and I don't remember that, but such is memory.

Granted; there were those who identified the fact we had 'player power' issues, and have just posted elsewhere about that run ending up defining GJ's tenure in regards to that.

But there was a good number lamenting his appointment by the Huddersfield game; I distinctly remember discussion about how losing one match 7-1 did for Tinnion, yet this new gaffer was 'getting away' with a worse run of form.

The nightclub incident, and its very public exposure of our dressing room culture absolutely bought GJ some serious good will, but I do not remember it being as clear cut as you seem to suggest.  That's the past, though, so we'll leave it there.

This is clearly a different scenario; the parallel I made probably doesn't hold much weight for a number of reasons - it's lazy of me to make it, probably driven by the father/son aspect.

But what does feel similar is that unlike the end of McInnes' tenure, where we were getting ruthlessly dispatched by sides without so much as a whimper and no suggestion of a method to Del'S apparoch, I do feel LJ is trying to implement something progressive.  

The question is if he's making a mistake in doing so or indeed if it is possible right now, and with our current squad.  We'll have to see if either it is, and the tide eventually turns, or isn't and he gets the bullet.

[Dynamite Red]

21 minutes ago, Emperor Palpatine said:

 

We're creating enough chances to win games 2 or 3 times over, they are simply not being converted.

 

And so are the opposition. How many games have we been dependant on Frankie making incredible saves or goal line clearances. Yes we are wasteful but we don't create enough guilt edge chances compared to the opposition.

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

4 minutes ago, Dynamite Red said:

And so are the opposition. How many games have we been dependant on Frankie making incredible saves or goal line clearances. Yes we are wasteful but we don't create enough guilt edge chances compared to the opposition.

The argument was put over its a tippy tappy yawnfest which signifies we don't take any risk. Obviously we do.

And not enough guilt edge chances, I beg to differ

[Bobfish]

1 hour ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

SC did not buy for the here and now,

Much was said in the Summer of '14 of how he was recruiting some of the best young, or youngish, players from L1, players with potential like Freeman, Agard, Ayling, and Korey who were fully expected to have a very good chance of maturing into solid Championship performers should Cotts. take his young City team up. Backed up by astute older signings in Wilbs. and Wade, and several younger players already at the club, i.e. Fielding, Bryan, Pack, Flint and Williams.

When you say 'SL might have to give up the philosophy he signed LJ for' are you suggesting SL himself has a philosophy on how he wants to see Bristol City play, and LJ fitting that was part of the reason he was taken on? You seem to when you say 'resort to a more direct and bland style.'

You'd have thought SL would have been ecstatic to see SC's team storm to the Championship playing organised, aggressive, attacking and entertaining football and done everything in his power to enable his 'Winner' to establish BCFC in the the Championship by backing the necessary upgrading of several players, thereby helping the youngsters to make the step up and play to their best, and for the club to make it's mark at the higher level with it's own already established brand of exciting football.

Nobody, including SL, (who seemed to hate the SO'D era as much as the rest of us) wanted a regression to the tippy tappy O'Driscoll yawnfest, surely?

 

Please, Cott’s was always for the here and now, his non-filling a bench and thus complete disregard for the youth setup is testament to that. It is well documented throughout these forums how he didn’t adopt the five pillars and went his own way, hiring people who did the same, splitting the club behind the scenes. No doubt this non-supporting of the club's plan influenced his non-support in the transfer market, although the idea of a "top striker" signing for a newly promoted side from league one is niave. The frailties of last season were evident throughout the league one campaign, for example wing backs/full backs who can’t defend – ailing when played out on the right and bryan on the left (with Cunningham who could defend being pushed out by Cotts.) In league one these deficits were evident, but mattered less as we “Kevin keegan-ed” through the league, outscoring our weaknesses. But the championship is not as forgiving. I thank Cotts for what he did for us, but what he didn’t do has caused us to suffer. Splashing big money on a big name striker may have won a few more points and a couple of league positions, until a bigger club steal them, but it won’t teach defensive midfielders to pass or how to track runs, full backs how to position themselves, keepers how to distribute the ball, or centre backs how to not just lump the ball upfield like they were playing rugby. All these faults we see week in and out were present two seasons ago and burying one’s head in the sand surprisingly did not solve them. That is not thinking ahead. That is thinking for the here and now.  An astute manager would have prepared for this when it was evident so early on that promotion was in the bag. Cott’s never changed, never adapted, never tried to fix the gaps, and just thought he could buy security in the championship with a few million – that is not understanding the jump between the leagues. Steamrolling league one may have blinded him, and many now angry fans, to the qualities and deficits of our game.

[Dynamite Red]

Why is there so much debate around Cotterill, he was once the King but now the past. Everyone's focus including the club needs to be on the here and now.

[Nogbad the Bad]

29 minutes ago, samo II said:

I was here, and I don't remember that, but such is memory.

Granted; there were those who identified the fact we had 'player power' issues, and have just posted elsewhere about that run ending up defining GJ's tenure in regards to that.

But there was a good number lamenting his appointment by the Huddersfield game; I distinctly remember discussion about how losing one match 7-1 did for Tinnion, yet this new gaffer was 'getting away' with a worse run of form.

The nightclub incident, and its very public exposure of our dressing room culture absolutely bought GJ some serious good will, but I do not remember it being as clear cut as you seem to suggest.  That's the past, though, so we'll leave it there.

This is clearly a different scenario; the parallel I made probably doesn't hold much weight for a number of reasons - it's lazy of me to make it, probably driven by the father/son aspect.

But what does feel similar is that unlike the end of McInnes' tenure, where we were getting ruthlessly dispatched by sides without so much as a whimper and no suggestion of a method to Del'S apparoch, I do feel LJ is trying to implement something progressive.  

The question is if he's making a mistake in doing so or indeed if it is possible right now, and with our current squad.  We'll have to see if either it is, and the tide eventually turns, or isn't and he gets the bullet.

Samo, what I'm saying is the fans - mostly - stayed with GJ during the losing run. He wasn't 'public enemy no.1'.

There was a period, perhaps in the Jan/Feb, when GJ was being severely questioned, mostly for lack of transfer activity, some poor displays, supposedly good players being sent out on loan and replaced by similar or worse, not playing Marcus Stewart etc.

And a few fans had made no secret that he simply got on their nerves, and wouldn't have minded if he was 'poached' like Pulis.

A fairly short period of sustained criticism though because we went on to finish the season strongly, and looked well set up to challenge the next.

 

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

3 minutes ago, Dynamite Red said:

Why is there so much debate around Cotterill, he was once the King but now the past. Everyone's focus including the club needs to be on the here and now.

Maybe because people keep comparing him and Johnson in terms of results in the Championship.

[Nogbad the Bad]

6 minutes ago, Dynamite Red said:

Why is there so much debate around Cotterill, he was once the King but now the past. Everyone's focus including the club needs to be on the here and now.

Really it's because 'Emperor Palpatine' in new and previous guise has brought him up in about 30 posts in the last week when defending LJ, and at some stage people are going to respond, however much they try not to!!

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

12 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Really it's because 'Emperor Palpatine' in new and previous guise has brought him up in about 30 posts in the last week when defending LJ, and at some stage people are going to respond, however much they try not to!!

Actually Nog its in response to your post about that it seemed all rosy under SC or how great it was on the pitch or should we say spirit of the squad which was dissected. 

I'm merely replying to others my view if thats ok with you, after all this is a forum right? Plenty of others pro or con have brought him up.

You and others like to bring up SO'D, maybe I should haul you up on that