So for all you 'sack the manager short termists'....

[phantom]

4 minutes ago, Benjam!n Ultra said:

We spent all our money before Kodjia left and that sell was apparently a surprise to the board and one they didn't account for. 

Therefore the money was there to spend if Kodjia was sold or not.  

Stop letting facts ruin a good debate 

[Guest]

What really gets to me are those questioning our summer recruitment in the likes of Engval, O'Dowda et al.  We bought youth as a punt, we brought in some experience GON and AM

What those posters fail to appreciate is the only experience we could get was a bloke who moved for an extra 12m on his deal and a bloke who would only come here, grudgingly, on a loan. 

WE ARE STILL LITTLE FISH. That's why we could only get those experienced championship players or LT who we made to feel like King Midas during his loan (as fans) and rose tinted the move. 

What actually happened in the summer '16 for me is we bought sensibly. We didn't break the bank and we bought in players who will grow with us. One established very quick - Magnusson; one is showing promise - Brownhill; two in particular have disappointed Patterson and Matthews but there's nothing to suggest they cannot turn it around. O'Dowda, Moore and Lucic all come with recommendations from managers who can spot talent or from very good pedigrees. Thank lord we spend on them what a mercenary 30yr old who doesn't want to be here would cost alone. 

Unfortunately we are in a position where patience is needed. We are in a position where loans are going to need to paper the cracks. We are likely to be in this position for this and the next season. After that we will start to become more attractive.

I have no fears we will go down, no fears that LJ will take us down. As we all predicted on 1 September our squad was adequate but a little short following Kodjia's departure in particular. I'm sure now as I was then if we can get the right additions in January we will get them. If we can't then we'll probably pay big wages on a loan; as we did Tomlin, as we did Odemwingie; to see us right; to see us make progress; to see us get to the point where players want to join us. 

[JHAGa]

5 minutes ago, Benjam!n Ultra said:

We spent all our money before Kodjia left and that sell was apparently a surprise to the board and one they didn't account for. 

Therefore the money was there to spend if Kodjia was sold or not.  

 

Too right it was a surprise. Hence why they left LJ in the lurch by not having a replacement.

[TheCulturalBomb]

35 minutes ago, spudski said:

...Come on then...what manager would guarantee wins in this league with the squad we have?

You all seem to know the budget we have to play with, and what players are available in January. Of course any new manager will have an endless budget, will be able to bring in anyone...it's just like going shopping in Tesco's  when doing your shopping don't you know...you can buy and loan whoever you want. You'll have already lined up players to release, and already done work with scouts, other managers and Agents in negotiating new deals. Easy isn't it...just bring them in, like we did last time we were in this position. Of course there are no more limitations to loans like before. Just go in and pick em off a shelf....

We must be absolutely crap...lose to Ipswich who have been in this division for 15 years.

Above Forest and Blackburn, Cardiff and QPR....how crap at this level must they be. Don't get me on the run Norwich are having with all their experience, money and players...we must be really crap.

Yep...two seasons up, with a rookie manager and very average Championship squad...who the hell do we think we are?

Get a bloody grip. when you look at those teams struggling...it shows how easy this league is right????

Exactly half way through the season and 17th....about right...no?

January window coming up...believe...it's no good moaning and thinking we have a divine right to do better. So many teams far better off than us, financially, player wise, and experience and all struggling.

17th isn't about right. Look at the players we have. Look at the start we had. Look at how we finished with Lee last season. People here almost revel in playing poorly and languishing at the bottom half. No doubt you said that about Cotterill last season when we were playing awful.. We sacked him and performed better. And there are plenty of EXPERIENCED managers we could get and put this squad in their place and perform to their potential.. But if you enjoy being in the bottom half of the table every year thinking we are going somewhere, then good for you.

[steviestevieneville]

24 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

I can see what you're saying, but I think for many of us, it's the perennial lack of success, I was fortunate enough to see Arsenal, Leeds, Man U etc at the Gate in our only spell of top flight football, but either side of that it's been an occasional season of happiness, followed by several of despair.  This one currently is plumbing the depths of that despair and could, without being over dramatic, be a bloody terrible one.  That said, a few decent players in the transfer window could see things change round and after the free fall, anything that guarantees safety will be gladly accepted by most.

Which  way will it go, I have no idea, I'm glad I haven't got the drawer with P45's in under my control, as I would be having my hand hovering near it now, but only if I had someone with a proven record to bring in.  The long term might pan out well with LJ in charge, but if this forum, City fans in pubs and on other media are getting jumpy now, imagine what it will be like if we go down.  What impact would that have on season ticket sales, the general atmosphere and aura built up by the new stadium and championship status, something the powers that be must be considering, even if it is to stick with their man and accept the outcome, good or bad.

Sorry to be pedantic but It was our second spell in the top flight not our only one.

[WessexPest]

46 minutes ago, spudski said:

 

Exactly half way through the season and 17th....about right...no?

 

You can't gloss over the fact we've taken a pitiful four points from a possible 30.

I agree though that the problems at our club run way deeper than the manager.

[Maesknoll Red]

2 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Sorry to be pedantic but It was our second spell in the top flight not our only one.

Within any of our lifetimes...... the first one wasn't relevant to the context of my post.

[Benjam!n Ultra]

8 minutes ago, JHAGa said:

 

Too right it was a surprise. Hence why they left LJ in the lurch by not having a replacement.

So then the financial argument is not relevant nor correct for this manager. 

[steviestevieneville]

3 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

Within any of our lifetimes...... the first one wasn't relevant to the context of my post.

Ok fair enough but still relevant to the clubs history

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, TheCulturalBomb said:

17th isn't about right. Look at the players we have. Look at the start we had. Look at how we finished with Lee last season. People here almost revel in playing poorly and languishing at the bottom half. No doubt you said that about Cotterill last season when we were playing awful.. We sacked him and performed better. And there are plenty of EXPERIENCED managers we could get and put this squad in their place and perform to their potential.. But if you enjoy being in the bottom half of the table every year thinking we are going somewhere, then good for you.

Look at how Derby started, Villa started, Reading started, Huddersfield started running away with it, Burton started well too. Everything settles. We had a false start with a fair bit of fortune turning around deficits. Now we are losing by the odd goal often in the closing minutes. 

[JHAGa]

6 minutes ago, Benjam!n Ultra said:

So then the financial argument is not relevant nor correct for this manager. 

 

There is no argument. He had a negative net spend and lost his best player.

[Fordy62]

36 minutes ago, spudski said:

...Come on then...what manager would guarantee wins in this league with the squad we have?

I think we all know that's an impossible question to answer, but I reckon it's a safe bet that any one of the 50 odd managers in the football league below us would have done at least as well as LJ over the last 10 games. 

36 minutes ago, spudski said:

You all seem to know the budget we have to play with, and what players are available in January. Of course any new manager will have an endless budget, will be able to bring in anyone...it's just like going shopping in Tesco's  when doing your shopping don't you know...you can buy and loan whoever you want. You'll have already lined up players to release, and already done work with scouts, other managers and Agents in negotiating new deals. Easy isn't it...just bring them in, like we did last time we were in this position. Of course there are no more limitations to loans like before. Just go in and pick em off a shelf....

We must be absolutely crap...lose to Ipswich who have been in this division for 15 years.

I think it's widely accepted that Ipswich are poor this season. As are Wolves and as are Preston.

Above Forest and Blackburn, Cardiff and QPR....how crap at this level must they be. Don't get me on the run Norwich are having with all their experience, money and players...we must be really crap.

Yep, Norwich are on a shit run too.

Yep...two seasons up, with a rookie manager and very average Championship squad...who the hell do we think we are?

I don't think we think we're anything. I think that we're becoming frustrated by a manager who's seemingly losing the plot, has lost the dressing room and week in week out is becoming so much like your much maligned adversery Steve Cotterill in his interviews and tactics (you're not going that bit sorry).

Get a bloody grip. when you look at those teams struggling...it shows how easy this league is right????

Exactly half way through the season and 17th....about right...no?

Well yeh, it is about right. In the same way it's about right for the captain of an A380 saying "ladies & gentlemen don't panic, I appreciate we should be flying at 30,000 feet, but we're still 5,000 feet up and miles above the ground."

The simple fact is we're only heading one way.

January window coming up...believe...it's no good moaning and thinking we have a divine right to do better. So many teams far better off than us, financially, player wise, and experience and all struggling.

Well yeh, but we spent 8 figures in the last window & bought a load of potential which is seeing us plummet faster than Swansea/Hull combined XI.

My point is, we all want it to work out, just like we do with each and every manager, but coming on here and telling us we don't have the right to whinge after what we've put up with in the last ten games is a little rich, especially coming from you given your outspokenness of 12 months ago. 

I hope LJ turns it round, because in my opinion he won't be sacked - maybe only for the reason that SL would out himself as foolish for issuing the new contract (I doubt SL enjoys looking foolish). 

But please don't start on those of us on a bit of a downer with the manager, we have every right to be. 

[Benjam!n Ultra]

3 minutes ago, JHAGa said:

 

There is no argument. He had a negative net spend and lost his best player.

Lee FFS... too obvious. 

[Davefevs]

Good posts @spudski and @29AR.

I'm in a bit of a quandary at the mo'.

I was a big Cotts fan, and believed he'd have kept us up....but I think he'd stitched himself up with his behaviour.

I though Johnson was a year too early, but a combination of our stock not being high, meant we weren't ever gonna attract a big name (if that was what we needed / wanted).  Having said that he had make a very tidy start up until the last couple of months.  Much like some of his signings, we've seen flashes of what potential he has.

He doesn't have the experience (his own) to fall back on in the situation he currently finds himself in.

I want Johnson to turn it around.

The obvious problem we have, is so obvious that we all have a different view on the solution, i.e. None of us have anything more than opinions.

I predict a really tense atmosphere on Monday, lose an early goal, and I think '000s will walk out (not me). 

Magnússon's injury might just be a blessing, as he can justify bringing Moore in (who I thought looked good v Hull). Sometimes an enforced change (not criticising Hordur in any way) can break the habit.

Brownhill might have forced his way into being a regular.  Reports seem to indicate he's been one of our better performers over Xmas.

Fleetwod might hold the key to his future.

[Londoner]

48 minutes ago, spudski said:

...Come on then...what manager would guarantee wins in this league with the squad we have?

You all seem to know the budget we have to play with, and what players are available in January. Of course any new manager will have an endless budget, will be able to bring in anyone...it's just like going shopping in Tesco's  when doing your shopping don't you know...you can buy and loan whoever you want. You'll have already lined up players to release, and already done work with scouts, other managers and Agents in negotiating new deals. Easy isn't it...just bring them in, like we did last time we were in this position. Of course there are no more limitations to loans like before. Just go in and pick em off a shelf....

We must be absolutely crap...lose to Ipswich who have been in this division for 15 years.

Above Forest and Blackburn, Cardiff and QPR....how crap at this level must they be. Don't get me on the run Norwich are having with all their experience, money and players...we must be really crap.

Yep...two seasons up, with a rookie manager and very average Championship squad...who the hell do we think we are?

Get a bloody grip. when you look at those teams struggling...it shows how easy this league is right????

Exactly half way through the season and 17th....about right...no?

January window coming up...believe...it's no good moaning and thinking we have a divine right to do better. So many teams far better off than us, financially, player wise, and experience and all struggling.

Astounding that someone can struggle to understand a concept that he clearly attempts to engage in. This post is laughable beyond belief. You just don't understand.

Let me explain it for you. Blackburn, Cardiff, qpr and forest have all recently had transfer embargos.....they are also clubs that a run by bordering lunatics whose negative presence and inability to run a football club filters through the club like a very unpleasant illness....it is absolutely no surprise they are near the bottom....the only side out of those who seemingly have supportive owners are qpr.....unfortunately they are inept. You should know this.

Yes Norwich are on a bad run, they are also still midtable and there are grumblings in the open regarding Neil....LJ currently spared.

We have Ipswich where MM has no money....zilch, and Barnsley who have had to recruit from the lower leagues just to add depth to their squad.

You have Preston and Birmingham. two more teams with **** all to spend....they seem to be doing all right. 

We on the other hand have money to spend...with most of our signings not getting a consistent look in.....Engvall Patterson O'Dowda Brownhill Ekstrand Moore.....but it's OK, we are looking to the future.

Look at the other sides in this league and you realise we have no excuses...none, but I knoe that because I have a firm grasp of the league and the teams in it......you clearly don't. 

 

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

4 minutes ago, Londoner said:

Astounding that someone can struggle to understand a concept that he clearly attempts to engage in. This post is laughable beyond belief. You just don't understand.

Let me explain it for you. Blackburn, Cardiff, qpr and forest have all recently had transfer embargos.....they are also clubs that a run by bordering lunatics whose negative presence and inability to run a football club filters through the club like a very unpleasant illness....it is absolutely no surprise they are near the bottom....the only side out of those who seemingly have supportive owners are qpr.....unfortunately they are inept. You should know this.

Yes Norwich are on a bad run, they are also still midtable and there are grumblings in the open regarding Neil....LJ currently spared.

We have Ipswich where MM has no money....zilch, and Barnsley who have had to recruit from the lower leagues just to add depth to their squad.

You have Preston and Birmingham. two more teams with **** all to spend....they seem to be doing all right. 

We on the other hand have money to spend...with most of our signings not getting a consistent look in.....Engvall Patterson O'Dowda Brownhill Ekstrand Moore.....but it's OK, we are looking to the future.

Look at the other sides in this league and you realise we have no excuses...none, but I knoe that because I have a firm grasp of the league and the teams in it......you clearly don't. 

 

Actually I think Spud has come out with some really good points...

You may have a point but your arrogance and thinking you're right is totally ludicrous, maybe you should put yourself in the running if LJ goes as you have so much knowledge and inner working of this club and the league itself

[Londoner]

8 minutes ago, Emperor Palpatine said:

Actually I think Spud has come out with some really good points...

You may have a point but your arrogance and thinking you're right is totally ludicrous, maybe you should put yourself in the running if LJ goes as you have so much knowledge and inner working of this club and the league itself

He doesn't make good points, he is completely wrong.

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

3 minutes ago, Londoner said:

He doesn't make good points, he is completely wrong.

How is he completely wrong?

Is he wrong that we have a rookie manager or we have an average Championship squad? No

Is he wrong that in terms of stature we are at the lower end of this table? No 

So basically he isn't completely wrong, in fact he is pretty much accurate

[ChippenhamRed]

21 minutes ago, JHAGa said:

 

There is no argument. He had a negative net spend and lost his best player.

The negative net spend argument only holds so much water because he gained Tammy for no fee. Given how many goals he has scored this season you would have to say that Tammy is only worth a little bit less than Kodjia, if  not about the same.

So in terms of the players at his disposal he has still gained and the "negative net spend" headline is misleading.

[MarcusX]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

...Come on then...what manager would guarantee wins in this league with the squad we have?

You all seem to know the budget we have to play with, and what players are available in January. Of course any new manager will have an endless budget, will be able to bring in anyone...it's just like going shopping in Tesco's  when doing your shopping don't you know...you can buy and loan whoever you want. You'll have already lined up players to release, and already done work with scouts, other managers and Agents in negotiating new deals. Easy isn't it...just bring them in, like we did last time we were in this position. Of course there are no more limitations to loans like before. Just go in and pick em off a shelf....

We must be absolutely crap...lose to Ipswich who have been in this division for 15 years.

Above Forest and Blackburn, Cardiff and QPR....how crap at this level must they be. Don't get me on the run Norwich are having with all their experience, money and players...we must be really crap.

Yep...two seasons up, with a rookie manager and very average Championship squad...who the hell do we think we are?

Get a bloody grip. when you look at those teams struggling...it shows how easy this league is right????

Exactly half way through the season and 17th....about right...no?

January window coming up...believe...it's no good moaning and thinking we have a divine right to do better. So many teams far better off than us, financially, player wise, and experience and all struggling.

Funny at the start of the season we had a good squad, apparently 

[Londoner]

7 minutes ago, Emperor Palpatine said:

How is he completely wrong?

Is he wrong that we have a rookie manager or we have an average Championship squad? No

Is he wrong that in terms of stature we are at the lower end of this table? No 

So basically he isn't completely wrong, in fact he is pretty much accurate

A rookie manager- I'm guessing that the likes of stam, wagner, Carvahal, rowett heckingbottom, smith all fall into that category too right.....of course they don't have any championship experience either. 

Average Championship squad - by that theory we should be midtable we are not. 

[ChippenhamRed]

19 minutes ago, Londoner said:

Astounding that someone can struggle to understand a concept that he clearly attempts to engage in. This post is laughable beyond belief. You just don't understand.

Let me explain it for you. Blackburn, Cardiff, qpr and forest have all recently had transfer embargos.....they are also clubs that a run by bordering lunatics whose negative presence and inability to run a football club filters through the club like a very unpleasant illness....it is absolutely no surprise they are near the bottom....the only side out of those who seemingly have supportive owners are qpr.....unfortunately they are inept. You should know this.

Yes Norwich are on a bad run, they are also still midtable and there are grumblings in the open regarding Neil....LJ currently spared.

We have Ipswich where MM has no money....zilch, and Barnsley who have had to recruit from the lower leagues just to add depth to their squad.

You have Preston and Birmingham. two more teams with **** all to spend....they seem to be doing all right. 

We on the other hand have money to spend...with most of our signings not getting a consistent look in.....Engvall Patterson O'Dowda Brownhill Ekstrand Moore.....but it's OK, we are looking to the future.

Look at the other sides in this league and you realise we have no excuses...none, but I knoe that because I have a firm grasp of the league and the teams in it......you clearly don't. 

 

Your patronising arrogance is beyond belief. The only person who puts you on this superior pedestal you apparently sit on is yourself.

[Jack Dawe]

33 minutes ago, spudski said:

...Come on then...what manager would guarantee wins in this league with the squad we have?

 

 

What other manager would have assembled the squad - or "young group" - that LJ judged good enough for this season, bearing in mind the resources available to him? I think none, most probably.

42 minutes ago, spudski said:

 

You all seem to know the budget we have to play with, 

We have a good idea about transfer fees paid last summer. And we spent more than Huddersfield, Barnsley, Preston and others. All three out performing us. And I think we can be sure we have spent more than Burton, who we 2 points ahead of. Not really getting value for money there, I'd say. Not good enough, I'd say.

49 minutes ago, spudski said:

So many teams far better off than us, financially, player wise, and experience and all struggling.

Forest, QPR, Cardiff, Blackburn - all clubs in a mess following relegation and in debt (and transfer embargoes)and ownership turmoil and problems, and declining gates. So that's why they are currently struggling. But what's our excuse?

We were promoted, we had "momentum," we have a great new ground, we have our biggest crowds since 1979, we have more income than ever, we have a proper COO, we have a wealthy and generous backer. We have more in place and are better prepared for this level of football than we have probably ever been - accept maybe the early 70s when we had a great youth policy - and still we struggle.

One thing we do not have is an experienced coach. But then neither do Barnsley. Or Huddersfield, for that matter.

What we do have now, is excuses. Like your OP is chock full of.

1 hour ago, spudski said:

 

Exactly half way through the season and 17th....about right...no?

 

No. We finished 18th last season, so no. Not right. Not good enough. 

1 hour ago, spudski said:

 

Yep...two seasons up, with a rookie manager and very average Championship squad...who the hell do we think we are?

 

This is the thinking and the language of mediocrity and failure. And of helplessness. "What can we do?" "What do you expect?" "So and so's not doing well either." "This is a tough league." "They've all got parachute payments." "We're only losing by one goal." "It's a young group." Failure, mediocrity, loser mentality. Excuses. Who ever achieved anything worthwhile with thinking like that?

Oh, and Huddersfield finished below us, and Reading finished on the same points as us last season. And Barnsley, sixth in L1 last season, have a rookie coach, he's been in the job since Lee left. Proper rookie, him. More excuses, spudski. Not good enough. Not acceptable. Loser mentality.

 

Your post is full of excuses and helplessness. We can only hope the people at the club are not of the same mind. 

 

 

[Olé]

@spudski I will always support the spirit of your post, but to throw the challenge back to you - at what point does a manager no longer become acceptable if they are so obviously with their tactics coaching any attacking instinct out of their team? 

Long term is all well and good but today shows that the preferred 4-5-1 formation has been wrong for weeks, and the slow pass backwards and then punt upfield is equally baffling as it's losing us games, in spite of being LJ's long term strategy for the team. Then you have all the signings who haven't or no longer start too. 

It shouldn't be about naming another manager, how about some accountability from LJ for his own mess? I would still love for him to succeed but there need to be some answers or its very very hard to get behind what doesn't make sense.

[Londoner]

4 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

What other manager would have assembled the squad - or "young group" - that LJ judged good enough for this season, bearing in mind the resources available to him? I think none, most probably.

We have a good idea about transfer fees paid last summer. And we spent more than Huddersfield, Barnsley, Preston and others. All three out performing us. And I think we can be sure we have spent more than Burton, who we 2 points ahead of. Not really getting value for money there, I'd say. Not good enough, I'd say.

Forest, QPR, Cardiff, Blackburn - all clubs in a mess following relegation and in debt (and transfer embargoes)and ownership turmoil and problems, and declining gates. So that's why they are currently struggling. But what's our excuse?

We were promoted, we had "momentum," we have a great new ground, we have our biggest crowds since 1979, we have more income than ever, we have a proper COO, we have a wealthy and generous backer. We have more in place and are better prepared for this level of football than we have probably ever been - accept maybe the early 70s when we had a great youth policy - and still we struggle.

One thing we do not have is an experienced coach. But then neither do Barnsley. Or Huddersfield, for that matter.

What we do have now, is excuses. Like your OP is chock full of.

No. We finished 18th last season, so no. Not right. Not good enough. 

This is the thinking and the language of mediocrity and failure. And of helplessness. "What can we do?" "What do you expect?" "So and so's not doing well either." "This is a tough league." "They've all got parachute payments." "We're only losing by one goal." "It's a young group." Failure, mediocrity, loser mentality. Excuses. Who ever achieved anything worthwhile with thinking like that?

Oh, and Huddersfield finished below us, and Reading finished on the same points as us last season. And Barnsley, sixth in L1 last season, have a rookie coach, he's been in the job since Lee left. Proper rookie, him. More excuses, spudski. Not good enough. Not acceptable. Loser mentality.

 

Your post is full of excuses and helplessness. We can only hope the people at the club are not of the same mind. 

 

 

Outstanding post.

[Fordy62]

10 minutes ago, Emperor Palpatine said:

How is he completely wrong?

Is he wrong that we have a rookie manager or we have an average Championship squad? No

Is he wrong that in terms of stature we are at the lower end of this table? No 

So basically he isn't completely wrong, in fact he is pretty much accurate

He's not completely wrong, but is what Spudski says accurate? Well... yes and no      !

i don't blame him for deliberately missing out the points that undermine his argument, that is afterall what we all do most days in one fashion or another. (I.e. Current form, 11m spent by LJ on his average squad)

Let me elaborate... Aleppo timeshare... property is cheap, weather is nice. 

[Davefevs]

Just one thing NOT to forget about the summer recruitment;

- we had to build something from a threadbare squad

in fact make that two things:

- the new loan rules, meant we had to do it all quickly.

We may have recruited in practice players that aren't as good as we hoped (yet to really know though), but we couldn't go into this season with 16/18 players either.

All @spudski is stating is that this division ain't easy, we aren't the big fish with a divine right that many think we are.  I'm not sure what he has actually said that's wrong.

i'm sat here tonight not knowing how I stand about Lee Johnson - but I do know I want to get behind the team on Monday.

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

4 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

He's not completely wrong, but is what Spudski says accurate? Well... yes and no      !

i don't blame him for deliberately missing out the points that undermine his argument, that is afterall what we all do most days in one fashion or another. (I.e. Current form, 11m spent by LJ on his average squad)

Let me elaborate... Aleppo timeshare... property is cheap, weather is nice. 

Completely wrong is what Londoner posted when he himself is wrong, thats what I was replying to

[AshtonGreat]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

...Come on then...what manager would guarantee wins in this league with the squad we have?

You all seem to know the budget we have to play with, and what players are available in January. Of course any new manager will have an endless budget, will be able to bring in anyone...it's just like going shopping in Tesco's  when doing your shopping don't you know...you can buy and loan whoever you want. You'll have already lined up players to release, and already done work with scouts, other managers and Agents in negotiating new deals. Easy isn't it...just bring them in, like we did last time we were in this position. Of course there are no more limitations to loans like before. Just go in and pick em off a shelf....

We must be absolutely crap...lose to Ipswich who have been in this division for 15 years.

Above Forest and Blackburn, Cardiff and QPR....how crap at this level must they be. Don't get me on the run Norwich are having with all their experience, money and players...we must be really crap.

Yep...two seasons up, with a rookie manager and very average Championship squad...who the hell do we think we are?

Get a bloody grip. when you look at those teams struggling...it shows how easy this league is right????

Exactly half way through the season and 17th....about right...no?

January window coming up...believe...it's no good moaning and thinking we have a divine right to do better. So many teams far better off than us, financially, player wise, and experience and all struggling.

How many managers would guarantee defeats with the squad we have? Not many, I would imagine

[Fordy62]

3 minutes ago, Emperor Palpatine said:

Completely wrong is what Londoner posted when he himself is wrong, thats what I was replying to

Yeh, I got that, I suppose my point is that you were saying Spudski was right, I was countering that Spudski was not wrong, but was heavily skewed by a pretty obvious pro LJ agenda that wasn't really very well balanced.