The non-official Burnley v City in the FA Cup match day thread

[Mr Popodopolous]

16 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Can't believe people are actually still backing him. Mentality like that is exactly why we are in this situation. 

He's potentially the worst manager we've ever had. Record amount of defeats in a row, banners for him to go all round the stadium, spent £10m in the summer, have the best squad we've ever had....and we are below Burton Albion in the league. 

May have spent a lot of money, have a lot of player- doesn't mean we have the best squad we ever had. £10m spent is a red herring in that respect, you can spend lots of money but is no sure thing...

I am not a Johnson defender by the way but red herring. Still we should be midtable I think with what we have.

[REDOXO]

1 minute ago, CotswoldRed said:

Nothing dynamic happens in life with either a huff or polite applause. 

Exactly!

[Major Isewater]

Just now, Northern Red said:

I absolutely couldn't have accused the players of a lack of commitment today. Some are clearly lacking in confidence but if they're not playing for the manager then they didn't show it.

Sorry if that doesn't fit the agenda or isn't what people wanted to hear. 

That's good to hear and I can fully believe it .

LJ comes across as a lovely bloke , you'd be happy to have a drink and a laugh with him,  however they are lacking confidence because they're losing so often and  they are losing so often because of his décisions , training methods and tactics.

[lenred]

3 minutes ago, cynic said:

There was a thread on here stating that someone wanted the club to lose as it might hasten LJs departure, there have been others who have alluded to the same thing. I did say that they were in the minority did I not ?

One person started a thread that got completely ripped to shreds. Your argument doesn't stack up. All imho of course. 

[CotswoldRed]

Just now, Major Isewater said:

That's good to hear and I can fully believe it .

LJ comes across as a lovely bloke , you'd be happy to have a drink and a laugh with him,  however they are lacking confidence because they're losing so often and  they are losing so often because of his décisions , training methods and tactics.

He does seem like a nice bloke. But the waffle he comes out with. Give me strength. 

[REDOXO]

3 minutes ago, cynic said:

I think its exactly what people should want to hear.

But not sure that everyone agrees.

I agree.

But if the players are lacking confidence as the bloke said then something has to change does it not?

[Red Exile]

2 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

I absolutely couldn't have accused the players of a lack of commitment today. Some are clearly lacking in confidence but if they're not playing for the manager then they didn't show it.

Sorry if that doesn't fit the agenda or isn't what people wanted to hear. 

Does it really much matter whether the players are playing for the manager if they are losing week in, week out?...bottom line is they are losing and the manager isn't capable of organising them to secure a win. I happen to think we have players at the club who are more than capable of competing. I don't think we have a manager who can organise them, and that's a conclusion based on watching matches and looking at the results...not an "agenda".

 

[samo II]

1 minute ago, cynic said:

I think its exactly what people should want to hear.

But not sure that everyone agrees.

I'm delighted to hear they've want to play for the club.

But just further put the spotlight on the tactics they are being asked to commit to, which have led to us to losing nine from the last eleven now.

Realise some are going overboard and personal in their critique of LJ, but let's not kid ourselves; the players still pulled for Cotts till the end - still needed a change.

LJ will need these big positives he speaks of showing Tuesday and Saturday because we're running out of games to stay in this league.

[petehinton]

5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

May have spent a lot of money, have a lot of player- doesn't mean we have the best squad we ever had. £10m spent is a red herring in that respect, you can spend lots of money but is no sure thing...

I am not a Johnson defender by the way but red herring. Still we should be midtable I think with what we have.

We've signed;

2 players from the Bundesliga - 1 of which played champions league. Midfielder who's won promotion from this league multiple times. Player who was voted player of the season in a top 3 side in this league 2 years ago. One of the best English teenagers in the country. Player from Juventus. 

I'd personally say this side is the best we've had in recent times by a country Mile. And this manager is the most backed financially we've ever had. 

And look at the league position. 

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

18 minutes ago, glos old boy said:

what like can play football

Can he? 

[CotswoldRed]

1 minute ago, petehinton said:

We've signed;

2 players from the Bundesliga - 1 of which played champions league. Midfielder who's won promotion from this league multiple times. Player who was voted player of the season in a top 3 side in this league 2 years ago. One of the best English teenagers in the country. Player from Juventus. 

I'd personally say this side is the best we've had in recent times by a country Mile. And this manager is the most backed financially we've ever had. 

And look at the league position. 

Exactly. Short of paying LJs mortgage, I'm not sure what the club is achieving in respect of the manager. 

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

2 minutes ago, samo II said:

I'm delighted to hear they've want to play for the club.

But just further put the spotlight on the tactics they are being asked to commit to, which have led to us to losing nine from the last eleven now.

Realise some are going overboard and personal in their critique of LJ, but let's not kid ourselves; the players still pulled for Cotts till the end - still needed a change.

LJ will need these big positives he speaks of showing Tuesday and Saturday because we're running out of games to stay in this league.

I still don't think they did towards the end, there was plenty of reasons to believe that after the 1-0 defeat at Reading.

I agree with the rest of your post though, like you I hope these positives LJ talks about after today can goto Tuesday.. 2 wins in the space of 4 days won't win exactly people over but will be a platform to build on

[longyears]

Re Flint - he is just like McCombe before him - good in the air, totally committed, good club man and top league one defender. As a Championship CB he is just not good enough just like McCombe. End of !

[ChippenhamRed]

11 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

May have spent a lot of money, have a lot of player- doesn't mean we have the best squad we ever had. £10m spent is a red herring in that respect, you can spend lots of money but is no sure thing...

I am not a Johnson defender by the way but red herring. Still we should be midtable I think with what we have.

The money spent is not a "red herring". That would imply it is somehow misleading or leads you to draw the wrong conclusion. It is an undeniable fact that the money has been spent and has not yielded the improvements that would have been expected in comparison to lesser-spending rivals.

Red herring it ain't.

[Major Isewater]

1 minute ago, Emperor Palpatine said:

I still don't think they did towards the end, there was plenty of reasons to believe that after the 1-0 defeat at Reading.

I agree with the rest of your post though, like you I hope these positives LJ talks about after today can goto Tuesday.. 2 wins in the space of 4 days won't win exactly people over but will be a platform to build on

We need to pull out of this tail spin sharpish .

Our coaching staff are not doing the club justice.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, petehinton said:

We've signed;

2 players from the Bundesliga - 1 of which played champions league. Midfielder who's won promotion from this league multiple times. Player who was voted player of the season in a top 3 side in this league 2 years ago. One of the best English teenagers in the country. Player from Juventus. 

I'd personally say this side is the best we've had in recent times by a country Mile. And this manager is the most backed financially we've ever had. 

And look at the league position. 

In recent times yeah, I would grant you but the Championship is so damn tough. Also we haven't seen the true impact of the 4 January signings yet, only been here a few weeks it can take some time to bed in to a new style of play or Champonship- Lucic is young and barely got a game for better or worse, Hegeler, Djuric especially won't have played in a side like us. Magnusson has done quite well I think,  O'Neil yeah with you on that, Tammy has been just brilliant, such are the comings and goings in this club though it's sometimes hard to keep track- Tomlin did great with us last season, not being managed correctly or an attitude problem hard to say? Having said that his record this season does stack up.

In recent times sure, 100%- absolutely. On paper. Manager may well be well backed but look at the guys he have signed who have barely played- and I am not even including the youth ones specifically signed for the future I am talking:

Lucic, Matthews, Ekstrand, Moore, Brownhill 4 games according to some site but I find it hard to believe, Engvall. We've almost signed too many players- not exactly cheap either with the exception of Brownhill. Sure they are young but a 3 year contract as in Brownhill's case does suggest he needs to be more involved now. It's a bewildering revolving door at this club, Yes Matthews is a,loanee but I bet the wages are decent...

Agreed, League position unacceptable- should be above Burton, several places higher in fact- midtable was my hope for this season back in August.

[samo II]

11 minutes ago, Emperor Palpatine said:

I still don't think they did towards the end, there was plenty of reasons to believe that after the 1-0 defeat at Reading.

I agree with the rest of your post though, like you I hope these positives LJ talks about after today can goto Tuesday.. 2 wins in the space of 4 days won't win exactly people over but will be a platform to build on

Two wins this week would represent a major upturn in form, and put us back in a strong position to stay up.  

Even four points from those two matches could provide the impetus to turn us around.

Problem is that this looks unlikely; Wednesday are a very strong team, and we'll need to play out of our skins to get anything.

But even the staunchest LJ believer must concede that if the players are playing for him, and yet we still can't pick up some (3 minimum) points from two home games (possibly our last for four games after that), then the buck stops with him.

Hope I'm wrong, but I think we'll get nothing from Wednesday, and be no more than two points from the relegation spots even if we beat Rotherham next weekend, at which point If LJ loves the club like he says, he should walk.

[Major Isewater]

Things might look better after a couple of pints ...

 

 

No .

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

The money spent is not a "red herring". That would imply it is somehow misleading or leads you to draw the wrong conclusion. It is an undeniable fact that the money has been spent and has not yielded the improvements that would have been expected in comparison to lesser-spending rivals.

Red herring it ain't.

Maybe I picked the wrong term, but the point is not the be all and end all.

This isn't a defence of Johnson, but the League is just super tough.

[CotswoldRed]

1 minute ago, samo II said:

Two wins this week would represent a major upturn in form, and put us back in a strong position to stay up.  

Even four points from those two matches could provide the impetus to turn us around.

Problem is that this looks unlikely; Wednesday are a very strong team, and we'll need to play out of our skins to get anything.

But even the staunchest LJ believer must concede that if the players are playing from him, and yet we still can't pick up some (3 minimum) points from two home games (possibly our last for four games after that), then the buck stops with him.

Hope I'm wrong, but I think we'll get nothing from Wednesday, and be no more than two points from the relegation spots even if we beat Rotherham next weekend, at which point If LJ loves the club like he says, he should walk.

Not sure which is worse. If they aren't playing for him, at least there is more scope for improvement. 

[Engvall's Splinter]

28 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

How dare you suggest that?  We were awful from the first whistle,  and it's all Lee Johnston's fault.  Didn't you know?  Those poor underprivileged and under-paid players.  They can't possibly compete, because Lee Johnston has forced them to underperform.  There they are, ball at their feet, and they think "oh christ, Lee Johnston is our manager" and over the crossbar it goes.  The power he has is frightening, and he's only 5ft 6in you know?

You could say this probably about our last 14 games. Have we won though? 

[ChippenhamRed]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

Maybe I picked the wrong term, but the point is not the be all and end all.

This isn't a defence of Johnson, but the League is just super tough.

Fair enough. Agree the league is tough, but all we can ask for is a par performance based on our squad, financial clout, fanbase and infrastructure. A relegation fight is not par.

[samo II]

Just now, CotswoldRed said:

Not sure which is worse. If they aren't playing for him, at least there is more scope for improvement. 

I'm going to get brickbats from those still in support of LJ, but I firmly believe a number of head coaches (several out of work) would immediate get more from this squad.  And I mean immediately.

We've a good squad who seem to want to play for the coach, and a generous owner who has supported us by upgrading the stadium; the missing ingredient is elsewhere.

[Major Isewater]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Maybe I picked the wrong term, but the point is not the be all and end all.

This isn't a defence of Johnson, but the League is just super tough.

How tough is it ? How many games have we played where the opposition were either atrocious or lucky to beat us ?

I think this league is fairly even in quality , what stands out is the organisation of certain teams and that most matches are won by a moment of individual skill or an individual's mistake .

[Alessandro]

24 minutes ago, samo II said:

For clarity; when you say "where we are then" do you mean league position-wise, or is that based on the result itself?

I'm curious as I suspect we might be level on points with the relegation places going into that match.

League position wise, result wise, morale wise etc etc.

I'm not deluded.

I don't have blind faith.

I'm not a loyal LJ supporter.

I'm just anti-sacking. As a club, we've gone round in managerial circles and at some point you have to pick a man and say 'we'll back you and stick with you when times get tough, because they will'. That person may well not be LJ, statistically, probability wise he'll be sacked soon. I won't be overly sad if he is. 

But I will be sad that once again we are looking for another manager and the field of alternatives is depressing.

I see the results and I see the performances and as I've said before I don't think LJ is unsackable, but the board have put in place a long term plan that includes LJ, so for me, we should give him as much time as possible. 

One final thought - football is a very fickle mistress, and if it's taught me one thing, it's that the fortunes of a team can change at the smallest detail, both in a negative and a positive way.

But come this time next week, if it's two defeats, I'll pull the trigger for all of you that want to see it pulled now.

[Engvall's Splinter]

6 minutes ago, samo II said:

Two wins this week would represent a major upturn in form, and put us back in a strong position to stay up.  

Even four points from those two matches could provide the impetus to turn us around.

Problem is that this looks unlikely; Wednesday are a very strong team, and we'll need to play out of our skins to get anything.

But even the staunchest LJ believer must concede that if the players are playing for him, and yet we still can't pick up some (3 minimum) points from two home games (possibly our last for four games after that), then the buck stops with him.

Hope I'm wrong, but I think we'll get nothing from Wednesday, and be no more than two points from the relegation spots even if we beat Rotherham next weekend, at which point If LJ loves the club like he says, he should walk.

Like you say, if the players are playing for him it's either a lack of quality or organisationally it's wrong. 

Weve spent 10 million and on paper the squad looks reasonable.   For me it's not quality. Most would agree. 

So it's not then Ashton. It's Johnson. 

Johnson out. (I must be in the 21%). 

[Chairman Mao]

35 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

The point being as the Yanks say " either shit or get off the pot " .

I'll need some pot at this rate. 

[samo II]

8 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

League position wise, result wise, morale wise etc etc.

I'm not deluded.

I don't have blind faith.

I'm not a loyal LJ supporter.

I'm just anti-sacking. As a club, we've gone round in managerial circles and at some point you have to pick a man and say 'we'll back you and stick with you when times get tough, because they will'. That person may well not be LJ, statistically, probability wise he'll be sacked soon. I won't be overly sad if he is. 

But I will be sad that once again we are looking for another manager and the field of alternatives is depressing.

I see the results and I see the performances and as I've said before I don't think LJ is unsackable, but the board have put in place a long term plan that includes LJ, so for me, we should give him as much time as possible. 

One final thought - football is a very fickle mistress, and if it's taught me one thing, it's that the fortunes of a team can change at the smallest detail, both in a negative and a positive way.

But come this time next week, if it's two defeats, I'll pull the trigger for all of you that want to see it pulled now.

I never implied you were deluded; I just wondered what your threshold for a good week was, and what involved LJ staying in a job looked like.

My concern is that our fellow relegation candidates have opponents and are in the type of form that might see them pick up points this week, and a win against Rotherham might only keep us where we are right now, which for me would signal us needing something against Wednesday.

And for the record; I'm also against constant sacking, and desperately wanted LJ to succeed.  

But I'm simply not convinced he's done enough this season to show he can progress the playing side of the team, and think our Championship status is more important than LJ being in the head coach job.

If the system we have established is like that of Southampton, we need to be able to switch our head coaches when the person in that role isn't keeping us competitive, and by its nature that role shouldn't be linked to one man.  

[Mr Popodopolous]

11 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

How tough is it ? How many games have we played where the opposition were either atrocious or lucky to beat us ?

I think this league is fairly even in quality , what stands out is the organisation of certain teams and that most matches are won by a moment of individual skill or an individual's mistake .

It's a tough League, look at the teams, managers and players now. It's so different to even 5 years ago- say someone had said Benitez would be at this level as manager, people would find that ridiculous. Chelsea, Napoli, Real Madrid and errrr Newcastle in the 2nd tier? Its far more international than it was- and not always to teams benefits as Birmingham are finding with Zola and Villa found with Di Matteo  and Forest with Montanier- but again, years ago Di Matteo would have been at the top end of this League. Look at Pearson at Derby, solid solid manager at this level and fairly disastrous.

Is a higher and higher level every year, the only real shock sides in the top 10 are Barnsley and Huddersfield, Villa are the big underachievers and perhaps Birmingham also.

[Smokey]

45 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

I absolutely couldn't have accused the players of a lack of commitment today. Some are clearly lacking in confidence but if they're not playing for the manager then they didn't show it.

Sorry if that doesn't fit the agenda or isn't what people wanted to hear. 

To me it doesn't mater if the players are playing for the manager or not. Its a results business after all and results are not in our favour.