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Hello from Barnsley


Old Goat

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Greetings lads and lasses.  Barnsley fan in peace.

Couldn't help posting, partly because it all sounded horribly familiar, but also because I thought you might appreciate a different perspective.  I've read elsewhere that some of your fans think Barnsley fans bear a grudge over Johnson moving to Bristol, but that's not a universal view. I've no axe to grind - if he'd only moved for the money I'd have been disappointed, but Bristol is obviously a special place for him, so good luck to the bloke. 

What you might not know is that we went through a spookily similar run with Johnson last season.  From beginning of October to end of November we lost every game, nine in a row, including an embarrassing FA Cup exit at Altricham.  Bottom of the table and everything looking hopeless. Johnson out and all that.

Then something just seemed to click and we started to win - and kept on winning.  Before we knew it we were climbing the table. Finished up 6th and winning promotion through the play-offs (stopping off en route to collect the JPT).

Johnson left us for Bristol at the start of Feb, so there's two schools of thought round these parts:  one, that he had naff all to do with our success and that it was all down to the the backroom staff; or two, that Johnson had put down some good foundations and set us firmly on the road to success before he moved on.  Personally I think the truth lies somewhere in between, but I honestly don't think we'd be back in the Championship now if it wasn't for Johnson's influence. Not all Tykes fans are quite so charitable, mind, but each to his own...

Anyway, I hope this gives some of you a ray of hope. I can see that 86% of forum voters want Lee out, but I have to say Bristol looked pretty good when they came to Oakwell earlier this season, maybe a bit more physical than I expected from a Johnson side, but also playing some good fast-paced football (which didn't surprise me in the least). So you never know, maybe if you can stand the white knuckle ride, he'll turn things round for you too. 

Good luck for the rest of the season. I'll be watching with interest.

Goat

  

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Thanks Goat. We are all well aware of your terrible run. It keeps being quoted as to why we need to keep faith with LJ. But to have 2 such terrible runs in consecutive seasons suggests a serious problem with his management ability at the very least. It's not just luck or coincidence. 

However LJ's chance of repeating the run of 6 league wins after a terrible run seems unlikely given the teams we have to play in February. By then we will be bumping along with Rotherham...

Plus Johnson has a load of baggage here. He was marmite as a player with many here suggesting nepotism from his dad and that but for that his number of league appearances would have been a lot lot less. So not straightforward. 

All we are hoping for right now is Championship survival, which given the players we have and the amount spent is truly abysmal.

Good luck to the Tykes. Guess you are going to miss Winnall but still look like a team that can compete at this level. We can't even guess our team from one game to the next right now!

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8 minutes ago, finbarr_in_z said:

A sensible, balaced piece. But this always winds me up. I know it shouldn't...........

 

How is he too know that Bristol's conference club got promoted so he needs to refer City / Rovers to differentiate between them.

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With reference to the Barnsley bad run in 2015, if it was Johnson's fault that the team lost nine games on the bounce then he should be given the credit for their recovery, unbeaten run and eventual play-off place (although he had obviously joined us before that place was secured).

Blaming Johnson for the defeats but applauding Paul Heckingbottom for their wins is pretty weak although I have seen it written by some Barnsley fans.

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9 minutes ago, Xiled said:

With reference to the Barnsley bad run in 2015, if it was Johnson's fault that the team lost nine games on the bounce then he should be given the credit for their recovery, unbeaten run and eventual play-off place (although he had obviously joined us before that place was secured).

Blaming Johnson for the defeats but applauding Paul Heckingbottom for their wins is pretty weak although I have seen it written by some Barnsley fans.

Well Heckingbottom hasn't had a dreadful losing run this season, unlike LJ. That seems to suggest that he probably deserves the most credit for their promotion and continued performances in the Championship. Given the choice right now, I know which one I would want!

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3 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

Well Heckingbottom hasn't had a dreadful losing run this season, unlike LJ. That seems to suggest that he probably deserves the most credit for their promotion and continued performances in the Championship. Given the choice right now, I know which one I would want!

Neither would be the correct answer 

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41 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

Neither would be the correct answer 

I want suggesting Hecklingbottom for us. I was implying that Barnsley got the better end of the deal and that their fans must be pretty happy right with their manager now, unlike the majority of ours with our Head Coach!

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2 hours ago, Old Goat said:

Greetings lads and lasses.  Barnsley fan in peace.

Couldn't help posting, partly because it all sounded horribly familiar, but also because I thought you might appreciate a different perspective.  I've read elsewhere that some of your fans think Barnsley fans bear a grudge over Johnson moving to Bristol, but that's not a universal view. I've no axe to grind - if he'd only moved for the money I'd have been disappointed, but Bristol is obviously a special place for him, so good luck to the bloke. 

What you might not know is that we went through a spookily similar run with Johnson last season.  From beginning of October to end of November we lost every game, nine in a row, including an embarrassing FA Cup exit at Altricham.  Bottom of the table and everything looking hopeless. Johnson out and all that.

Then something just seemed to click and we started to win - and kept on winning.  Before we knew it we were climbing the table. Finished up 6th and winning promotion through the play-offs (stopping off en route to collect the JPT).

Johnson left us for Bristol at the start of Feb, so there's two schools of thought round these parts:  one, that he had naff all to do with our success and that it was all down to the the backroom staff; or two, that Johnson had put down some good foundations and set us firmly on the road to success before he moved on.  Personally I think the truth lies somewhere in between, but I honestly don't think we'd be back in the Championship now if it wasn't for Johnson's influence. Not all Tykes fans are quite so charitable, mind, but each to his own...

Anyway, I hope this gives some of you a ray of hope. I can see that 86% of forum voters want Lee out, but I have to say Bristol looked pretty good when they came to Oakwell earlier this season, maybe a bit more physical than I expected from a Johnson side, but also playing some good fast-paced football (which didn't surprise me in the least). So you never know, maybe if you can stand the white knuckle ride, he'll turn things round for you too. 

Good luck for the rest of the season. I'll be watching with interest.

Goat

  

Cheers Goat.  Most of us are expecting a similar turn around here.  I think it will start on Tuesday.

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5 hours ago, Rednwhiterob said:

Cheers Goat.  Most of us are expecting a similar turn around here.  I think it will start on Tuesday.

I don't think "Happy Clapper" really covers that comment. You must be kidding that most on here,  or amongst the wider group of City fans even, want that let alone expect it. The majority want LJ gone and the next 2 matches will just serve to strengthen that feeling.

Are you employed by Trump to produce "Alternative Facts"?

The rate LJ is going our stands could end up as empty as the ones at Trump's inauguration!

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Thing is with our run under Johnson is that it's not just the 8 defeats in a row we've had to contend with.  It's 2 wins and 13 defeats in 16 games... we were on a shocking run before our current shocking run! 

We'll see what happens in the next 2 games but surely we'll have to change it soon regardless. I don't think I've ever known a manager at any level survive a diabolical run like we're on now. 

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54 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

I don't think "Happy Clapper" really covers that comment. You must be kidding that most on here,  or amongst the wider group of City fans even, want that let alone expect it. The majority want LJ gone and the next 2 matches will just serve to strengthen that feeling.

 

Do you really think most of our fans don't want a massive improvement in form and LJ to turn it around? I would agree most of the fans - myself included - think LJ should go because we do not believe he will turn it around but I'm pretty sure most, if not all, of us would be delighted if LJ did get us winning games and we surged up the table. Why wouldn't we be? We'd be winning games and that's what matters...

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6 hours ago, Rednwhiterob said:

Cheers Goat.  Most of us are expecting a similar turn around here.  I think it will start on Tuesday.

That's sort of half true, but I was expecting a turnaround of results before the Reading game, by Cardiff I knew he was totally incompetent and accepted I was wrong to believe he was capable of doing it.

Wasted countless games losing to teams in a similar league position to us with no points to show for it, we now play a tougher set with the light relief of next Saturday we play the worst team in the league, when we beat them we will be praising him as the second coming.

By not getting rid when it was obvious he is out of his depth we have stupidly given the next manager nothing to play with because the transfer window will be gone and he will be stuck with whatever mess we have now. My only positive is that the players the next manager has at his disposal when set up and managed correctly is easily a mid table team.

You are completely delusional that most are still with Lee Johnson.

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Thank you, @Old Goat- it's nice to hear an opinion from our friends in South Yorkshire that acknowledges that LJ may have at least had some influence on setting up things at Barnsley that have contributed to your last 12 months of success; many of your cohorts seems to subscribe to the position he did naff all, which I think is a touch unfair.

However, the concern for us is that despite significant investment and after a year of being in charge of the coaching side of the club, now is when our form has dipped, not earlier in the season when the changes were fresh/being made.  Unlike yourselves last year, the sort of winning run you experienced we now need simply to avoid the drop, and signs are not good that we are setting up to achieve that.

Obviously, I hope all the aforementioned signs are wrong, and we come out all guns blazing at home to Wednesday, and begin a purple patch that puts us free and clear of the drop zone with weeks to spare, but I'm skeptical, if not downright cynical about that happening.

What I wouldn't rule out is LJ finally leaving after another couple of poor results, and the squad and structure he has clearly been helping put in place (training methods, the youth 'pathway' etc) being part of the foundations on which a successful side could be built.  Part of me wonders if he'd not make a better Chief Exec than manager, based off what I've seen from him.

But thanks again for the balanced assessment, and while some here seem to have taken against the Tykes for reasons I'm not sure of; other than against us (and definitely when you play teams near us in the table) I hope you keep on having a good season, as would rather you than Wednesday or Leeds or Reading going up via the playoffs.  

Good luck, though I think we're the ones that need it more right now.

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Want to know why Barnsley have done so well? They have kept the same team as last season and havent made loads of signings.

Whereas LJ has broke up our promotion team and replaced them with nothing better, they had a team spirit and showed signs of improvement at the end of last season. What a shame.

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9 hours ago, Old Goat said:

Greetings lads and lasses.  Barnsley fan in peace.

Couldn't help posting, partly because it all sounded horribly familiar, but also because I thought you might appreciate a different perspective.  I've read elsewhere that some of your fans think Barnsley fans bear a grudge over Johnson moving to Bristol, but that's not a universal view. I've no axe to grind - if he'd only moved for the money I'd have been disappointed, but Bristol is obviously a special place for him, so good luck to the bloke. 

What you might not know is that we went through a spookily similar run with Johnson last season.  From beginning of October to end of November we lost every game, nine in a row, including an embarrassing FA Cup exit at Altricham.  Bottom of the table and everything looking hopeless. Johnson out and all that.

Then something just seemed to click and we started to win - and kept on winning.  Before we knew it we were climbing the table. Finished up 6th and winning promotion through the play-offs (stopping off en route to collect the JPT).

Johnson left us for Bristol at the start of Feb, so there's two schools of thought round these parts:  one, that he had naff all to do with our success and that it was all down to the the backroom staff; or two, that Johnson had put down some good foundations and set us firmly on the road to success before he moved on.  Personally I think the truth lies somewhere in between, but I honestly don't think we'd be back in the Championship now if it wasn't for Johnson's influence. Not all Tykes fans are quite so charitable, mind, but each to his own...

Anyway, I hope this gives some of you a ray of hope. I can see that 86% of forum voters want Lee out, but I have to say Bristol looked pretty good when they came to Oakwell earlier this season, maybe a bit more physical than I expected from a Johnson side, but also playing some good fast-paced football (which didn't surprise me in the least). So you never know, maybe if you can stand the white knuckle ride, he'll turn things round for you too. 

Good luck for the rest of the season. I'll be watching with interest.

Goat

  

Nice to hear a balanced view.

Making the foundations and making changes can sometimes mean taking one step back, to get two steps forwards.

I understand fans frustrations, as we can see do the Club, but I'm glad they are sticking with a manager and bucking the trend of sacking. Not because it's LJ...but because we now have a coach and team around him, all doing the right thing to get this club going forward.

With the backing LJ is getting, he won't have any excuses not to at least get us established for a season or two in this division.

I'm looking forward to seeing him turn it around and develop a decent side.

It's been a horrible past few months, but I'm excited by the players we've brought in recently and the quality of players that are now interested in playing for us.

Hopefully a couple more signings this week, and we can start competing and getting results again.

Definitely a white knuckle ride so far...but I'd rather have that, than a stop, start one again.

I have my doubts as to whether LJ is the manager to take us into a top 6 side, be nice if he could...would love us to become a club where we find a manager that stays around for a while developing all the time, but imo, I can see him being that man. However I would like some stability...and if we can stay up and keep getting stronger and establish a couple more years foundation in this league, then kick on to a newer level in it.

Biggest problem any manager has in this league is patience from fans and owners. So many big clubs have been in this league for years...all doing the same thing. Fans moaning every season because it hasn't been the one they've gone up in. All vying for 3 places.

Cue vitriol from the same ol faces...:laugh:

 

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2 minutes ago, BA14 RED said:

Want to know why Barnsley have done so well? They have kept the same team as last season and havent made loads of signings.

Whereas LJ has broke up our promotion team and replaced them with nothing better, they had a team spirit and showed signs of improvement at the end of last season. What a shame.

Are you suggesting we shouldn't have signed anyone in the summer? Nonsense. That went really well in 2015 didn't it. The squad needed enhancing.

The promotion team didn't have Tomlin, Abraham or Magnusson for starters. But the majority of that team are still here and some of them - perhaps most notably Freeman - haven't made the step up as we might have expected.

Man for man this squad of players is superior to the one that got promoted. Johnson's failing is that he hasn't got the best from them.

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9 hours ago, Old Goat said:

Greetings lads and lasses.  Barnsley fan in peace.

Couldn't help posting, partly because it all sounded horribly familiar, but also because I thought you might appreciate a different perspective.  I've read elsewhere that some of your fans think Barnsley fans bear a grudge over Johnson moving to Bristol, but that's not a universal view. I've no axe to grind - if he'd only moved for the money I'd have been disappointed, but Bristol is obviously a special place for him, so good luck to the bloke. 

What you might not know is that we went through a spookily similar run with Johnson last season.  From beginning of October to end of November we lost every game, nine in a row, including an embarrassing FA Cup exit at Altricham.  Bottom of the table and everything looking hopeless. Johnson out and all that.

Then something just seemed to click and we started to win - and kept on winning.  Before we knew it we were climbing the table. Finished up 6th and winning promotion through the play-offs (stopping off en route to collect the JPT).

Johnson left us for Bristol at the start of Feb, so there's two schools of thought round these parts:  one, that he had naff all to do with our success and that it was all down to the the backroom staff; or two, that Johnson had put down some good foundations and set us firmly on the road to success before he moved on.  Personally I think the truth lies somewhere in between, but I honestly don't think we'd be back in the Championship now if it wasn't for Johnson's influence. Not all Tykes fans are quite so charitable, mind, but each to his own...

Anyway, I hope this gives some of you a ray of hope. I can see that 86% of forum voters want Lee out, but I have to say Bristol looked pretty good when they came to Oakwell earlier this season, maybe a bit more physical than I expected from a Johnson side, but also playing some good fast-paced football (which didn't surprise me in the least). So you never know, maybe if you can stand the white knuckle ride, he'll turn things round for you too. 

Good luck for the rest of the season. I'll be watching with interest.

Goat

  

Was LJ bereft of an apparent philosophy, constantly chopping and changing, sounding like a soundbite machine and at the end of a multi-million pound shopping spree when the turnaround occurred?

If so, I hold on to some hope. 

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7 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Are you suggesting we shouldn't have signed anyone in the summer? Nonsense. That went really well in 2015 didn't it. The squad needed enhancing.

The promotion team didn't have Tomlin, Abraham or Magnusson for starters. But the majority of that team are still here and some of them - perhaps most notably Freeman - haven't made the step up as we might have expected.

Man for man this squad of players is superior to the one that got promoted. Johnson's failing is that he hasn't got the best from them.

Where did I suggest we shouldnt have signed anyone to, only stating Barnsley signed a few and kept their momentum going. The 3 signings mentioned have been good for us, I am simply viewing some as wasted money on players who were already good enough in certain positions and have made players from the squad who I thought played some excellent football at end of last season leave the club.

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10 hours ago, Xiled said:

With reference to the Barnsley bad run in 2015, if it was Johnson's fault that the team lost nine games on the bounce then he should be given the credit for their recovery, unbeaten run and eventual play-off place (although he had obviously joined us before that place was secured).

Blaming Johnson for the defeats but applauding Paul Heckingbottom for their wins is pretty weak although I have seen it written by some Barnsley fans.

Does that logic not mean that Cotts should be credited with us staying up last season and SOD credited with our double winning season the season before?

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1 hour ago, spudski said:

Nice to hear a balanced view.

Making the foundations and making changes can sometimes mean taking one step back, to get two steps forwards.

I understand fans frustrations, as we can see do the Club, but I'm glad they are sticking with a manager and bucking the trend of sacking. Not because it's LJ...but because we now have a coach and team around him, all doing the right thing to get this club going forward.

With the backing LJ is getting, he won't have any excuses not to at least get us established for a season or two in this division.

I'm looking forward to seeing him turn it around and develop a decent side.

It's been a horrible past few months, but I'm excited by the players we've brought in recently and the quality of players that are now interested in playing for us.

Hopefully a couple more signings this week, and we can start competing and getting results again.

Definitely a white knuckle ride so far...but I'd rather have that, than a stop, start one again.

I have my doubts as to whether LJ is the manager to take us into a top 6 side, be nice if he could...would love us to become a club where we find a manager that stays around for a while developing all the time, but imo, I can see him being that man. However I would like some stability...and if we can stay up and keep getting stronger and establish a couple more years foundation in this league, then kick on to a newer level in it.

Biggest problem any manager has in this league is patience from fans and owners. So many big clubs have been in this league for years...all doing the same thing. Fans moaning every season because it hasn't been the one they've gone up in. All vying for 3 places.

Cue vitriol from the same ol faces...:laugh:

 

Spud - I've been reading your posts for a long time and while I haven't posted much over the years I've enjoyed your contributions. You are clearly an intelligent bloke with the club's best interests at heart. 

I admire your stance on Johnson/stability and in an ideal world I'd agree with you. I can see that the club are trying to build something long term, and if that aim was backed up with any kind of results on the pitch (say 15-20 points from the last 16 games, rather than 7),  I certainly wouldn't  be calling for change. 

You talk about staying up and building foundations to thrive in this league in the coming years. You seem to think it highly likely that we will survive this season under LJ - what are you basing that on? I and many others see a team with enough capable individuals to stay up but whose confidence is completely shot.

I'm sure that there are a combination of reasons for that total lack of confidence, many the fault of LJ and some not, but to me we are only going one way under him. I'm very confident that the right new manager (or 'head coach') could get more out of these players. 

How bad would it have to get before your view on LJ was to change? I'm not knocking you, just genuinely interested. 

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20 minutes ago, Jacki said:

Spud - I've been reading your posts for a long time and while I haven't posted much over the years I've enjoyed your contributions. You are clearly an intelligent bloke with the club's best interests at heart. 

I admire your stance on Johnson/stability and in an ideal world I'd agree with you. I can see that the club are trying to build something long term, and if that aim was backed up with any kind of results on the pitch (say 15-20 points from the last 16 games, rather than 7),  I certainly wouldn't  be calling for change. 

You talk about staying up and building foundations to thrive in this league in the coming years. You seem to think it highly likely that we will survive this season under LJ - what are you basing that on? I and many others see a team with enough capable individuals to stay up but whose confidence is completely shot.

I'm sure that there are a combination of reasons for that total lack of confidence, many the fault of LJ and some not, but to me we are only going one way under him. I'm very confident that the right new manager (or 'head coach') could get more out of these players. 

How bad would it have to get before your view on LJ was to change? I'm not knocking you, just genuinely interested. 

The obvious problems are individual errors Jacki. It really is the difference at the moment. Yesterday again was a prime example.

I see us playing exactly the same way as many other teams in this league...we just make more individual errors.

We have some decent players for this division. But Matthews, Smith, GoN, FF, Golbourne, Bryan and Tomlin have been massive disappointments this season. That's 7 players that would be first picks with experience at this level, all not performing. A massive problem.

When you have that problem...you are having to play inexperienced players instead....and that leads to the mistakes.

We compete...but we make those fatal errors from Individuals.

Even though we have brought in Wright, Duric, Hegeler, Geifer,and Mags is back fit....it still leaves us with full back weaknesses and midfield.

Any new manager could come in and change 'tactics' or 'formations'....but that still isn't going to solve the problem of individual errors.

Every game, it's individual errors...not LJ's tactics that are killing us.

We need to keep doing the right things, which we are, those experienced players need to gel with the newcomers, and we should in theory keep going.

Any new manager would still have the same problems...I'm not saying LJ is the answer, but I think stability for me, is far better than risking change again.

I'd only get rid, if we are getting adrift. But that would be a complete gamble. Catch 22.

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1 hour ago, sodburyred said:

Does that logic not mean that Cotts should be credited with us staying up last season and SOD credited with our double winning season the season before?

No, definitely not. Johnson was still at Barnsley when they won six games in a row (just before he joined us).

My point is that most of the Barnsley fans (not @Old Goat) that have posted on OTIB have been quick to remember their losing run but overlook the winning run that followed.

Overreaction is a common theme for Barnsley fans and us.

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36 minutes ago, spudski said:

The obvious problems are individual errors Jacki. It really is the difference at the moment. Yesterday again was a prime example.

I see us playing exactly the same way as many other teams in this league...we just make more individual errors.

We have some decent players for this division. But Matthews, Smith, GoN, FF, Golbourne, Bryan and Tomlin have been massive disappointments this season. That's 7 players that would be first picks with experience at this level, all not performing. A massive problem.

When you have that problem...you are having to play inexperienced players instead....and that leads to the mistakes.

We compete...but we make those fatal errors from Individuals.

Even though we have brought in Wright, Duric, Hegeler, Geifer,and Mags is back fit....it still leaves us with full back weaknesses and midfield.

Any new manager could come in and change 'tactics' or 'formations'....but that still isn't going to solve the problem of individual errors.

Every game, it's individual errors...not LJ's tactics that are killing us.

We need to keep doing the right things, which we are, those experienced players need to gel with the newcomers, and we should in theory keep going.

Any new manager would still have the same problems...I'm not saying LJ is the answer, but I think stability for me, is far better than risking change again.

I'd only get rid, if we are getting adrift. But that would be a complete gamble. Catch 22.

Whilst I agree that individual errors is a big part of our current malaise I have to disagree regarding LJ''s tactics. Over the last couple of months I think we have gone backwards in terms of progress. We play with very little width and although we have plenty of possession teams just let us keep the ball in areas that don't hurt them. I and most of the blokes I go with are now at the stage where we feel that it is a job that came too early for LJ.We seem bereft of confidence and that is surely down to the manager. Surely you must think that with this squad we have now a more settled side would have been sorted out but we still are chopping and changing every game and that isn't right at this stage of the season. 

 

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