PHILINFRANCE Posted December 12, 2022 Report Share Posted December 12, 2022 (edited) But, surely, the whole point of DRS (in so far as it concerns ‘ball tracking’, and those three dots), is that it shows the likelihood of what the ball would have done. It is not a certainty, and nor does it claim to be. When, in the case of LBW decisions, the umpire, who has been following the track of the ball all game, indicates that the batsman is out or not out, he is merely exercising his judgement. Where there is a doubt, e.g. the ball appears to be just clipping the stump or bails, neither the umpire nor DRS can be 100% sure, so the benefit of doubt is given to the umpire. I meant to quote @Robbored Edited December 12, 2022 by PHILINFRANCE 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 12, 2022 Report Share Posted December 12, 2022 16 minutes ago, TomF said: This was really good from Nasser a while ago I remember seeing that and also remember thinking at the time that if DRS indicates that the ball would have hit the stumps then it should be out - I get the margin of error rationale but today’s technology is so advanced that any margin of error is very likely to be very minimal. Getting the right decision is what matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted December 12, 2022 Report Share Posted December 12, 2022 1 minute ago, Robbored said: I remember seeing that and also remember thinking at the time that if DRS indicates that the ball would have hit the stumps then it should be out - I get the margin of error rationale but today’s technology is so advanced that any margin of error is very likely to be very minimal. Getting the right decision is what matters. You are right (sort of), and I don’t think anybody would disagree with your argument - if I may be so bold (presumptuous), it needs just a little refinement. Firstly, taking your final paragraph, getting the right decision is, of course, what everyone seeks. You say that any margin of error is very minimal and, surely, that is the whole point about ‘umpire’s call’, certainly in so far as it concerns LBW decisions. Both the umpire and DRS are only able to assume (guess) whether, on the balance of probabilities, the ball would or would not have hit (or clipped) the stumps - neither can be 100% sure, one way or the other, hence the reason, in my opinion, why the third umpire (DRS) reverts to ‘umpire’s call’, as he cannot be sufficiently confident in the technology to overturn the on field umpire’s decision due to the recognised margin of error. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted December 12, 2022 Report Share Posted December 12, 2022 16 minutes ago, Robbored said: I remember seeing that and also remember thinking at the time that if DRS indicates that the ball would have hit the stumps then it should be out - I get the margin of error rationale but today’s technology is so advanced that any margin of error is very likely to be very minimal. Getting the right decision is what matters. You are opining about margin of error being very minimal without knowing that for sure. Any margin of error can affect things and it is very important, in my opinion, that umpires opinion holds weight 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted December 12, 2022 Report Share Posted December 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said: You are right (sort of), and I don’t think anybody would disagree with your argument - if I may be so bold (presumptuous), it needs just a little refinement. Firstly, taking your final paragraph, getting the right decision is, of course, what everyone seeks. You say that any margin of error is very minimal and, surely, that is the whole point about ‘umpire’s call’, certainly in so far as it concerns LBW decisions. Both the umpire and DRS are only able to assume (guess) whether, on the balance of probabilities, the ball would or would not have hit (or clipped) the stumps - neither can be 100% sure, one way or the other, hence the reason, in my opinion, why the third umpire (DRS) reverts to ‘umpire’s call’, as he cannot be sufficiently confident in the technology to overturn the on field umpire’s decision due to the recognised margin of error. It is what a lot seem to be seeking in football; fixing clear and obvious errors. Saying not out to a ball that is hitting 1% of leg stump isn’t a clear and obvious error. Cricket has it weighted perfectly. Football, a long way to go. Looking at something for 5 mins means there is no clear and obvious error 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 13, 2022 Report Share Posted December 13, 2022 7 hours ago, And Its Smith said: You are opining about margin of error being very minimal without knowing that for sure. Any margin of error can affect things and it is very important, in my opinion, that umpires opinion holds weight Similar technology as DRS is used in professional tennis where the ball tacking is accepted as accurate. The ball is either in or out. No allowance is made for marginal error but in cricket it is…………. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted December 13, 2022 Report Share Posted December 13, 2022 17 minutes ago, Robbored said: Similar technology as DRS is used in professional tennis where the ball tacking is accepted as accurate. The ball is either in or out. No allowance is made for marginal error but in cricket it is…………. It’s different. Cricket DRS is a prediction of where the ball would go. In tennis it shows you where it did go. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted December 13, 2022 Report Share Posted December 13, 2022 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Robbored said: Similar technology as DRS is used in professional tennis where the ball tacking is accepted as accurate. The ball is either in or out. No allowance is made for marginal error but in cricket it is…………. Wrong analogy Ribbon, it's not similar to DRS, it's similar to Goal Line Technology. As @And Its Smithsays, it shows where the ball landed, DRS predicts where the ball would have gone based on available information and as such can never be 100% accurate. Edited December 13, 2022 by Port Said Red 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 13, 2022 Report Share Posted December 13, 2022 43 minutes ago, Port Said Red said: Wrong analogy Ribbo,it's not similar to DRS, it's similar to Goal Line Technology. As @And Its Smithsays, it shows where the ball landed, DRS predicts where the ball would have gone based on available information and as such can never be 100% accurate. It ball tracking! they’re very similar. Goal line technology is far more involved. Microchips in the ball and sensors around the goal posts are required. None of it is required in tennis or cricket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted December 13, 2022 Report Share Posted December 13, 2022 Just now, Robbored said: It ball tracking! they’re very similar. Goal line technology is far more involved. Microchips in the ball and sensors around the goal posts are required. None of it is required in tennis or cricket. No. GLT and Hawkeye, look at an event that happened. DRS looks at what might have happened if the event continued. DRS cannot predict late swing or how much a ball might continue to turn for example, it can only use the previous angles and coordinates of the ball to calculate where it may have ended up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 13, 2022 Report Share Posted December 13, 2022 13 minutes ago, Port Said Red said: No. GLT and Hawkeye, look at an event that happened. DRS looks at what might have happened if the event continued. DRS cannot predict late swing or how much a ball might continue to turn for example, it can only use the previous angles and coordinates of the ball to calculate where it may have ended up. We’re going around in circles here PSR……….….. DRS - tracks the balls trajectory just as Hawkeye and GLT does. All three are very similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted December 13, 2022 Report Share Posted December 13, 2022 12 minutes ago, Robbored said: We’re going around in circles here PSR……….….. DRS - tracks the balls trajectory just as Hawkeye and GLT does. All three are very similar. We are going around in circles because you seem incapable of seeing the difference between something that did happen and what might have happened. Or are we coming up against your pathological need to be right again? (used with all irony) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted December 13, 2022 Report Share Posted December 13, 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Robbored said: We’re going around in circles here PSR……….….. DRS - tracks the balls trajectory just as Hawkeye and GLT does. All three are very similar. If it helps to think of things as fact or not fact then try that. Snicko can be overturned as it’s a fact whether a player has nicked it or not. Run outs and stumpings are factual situations as well. LBW and whether a catch has been cleanly taken is not a fact, for different reasons. One is a prediction, not a fact. The other cannot often he proved so it comes down to opinion. Hussain did a piece on this years ago showing that catches can be clean but look like they we grounded. So those can be overturned as well. Maybe that will help. Edited December 13, 2022 by And Its Smith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelRobartes Posted December 13, 2022 Report Share Posted December 13, 2022 On another note, I see that the pitch in Rawalpindi has been rated below average. One snippet from the match referee's statement caught my eye: "The pitch hardly deteriorated during the course of the match." Who'dda thunk it? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted December 13, 2022 Report Share Posted December 13, 2022 5 minutes ago, MichaelRobartes said: On another note, I see that the pitch in Rawalpindi has been rated below average. One snippet from the match referee's statement caught my eye: "The pitch hardly deteriorated during the course of the match." Who'dda thunk it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted December 13, 2022 Report Share Posted December 13, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Robbored said: We’re going around in circles here PSR……….….. DRS - tracks the balls trajectory just as Hawkeye and GLT does. All three are very similar. Try thinking about it this way. Tennis. Did the ball land on the line? I don’t know, I’ll check with Hawkeye. Having checked, I can confirm it did. It actually happened and can be confirmed. Cricket. Was the ball going to hit the stumps? I’m not sure, I’ll check with DRS to see if it can help. It didn’t actually happen, and as the pictures aren’t too clear, I’m not really sure I can give a definitive answer. Best to stick with the umpire’s original decision, as I can see no evidence to show that he was wrong. Edited December 13, 2022 by PHILINFRANCE 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Red Posted December 16, 2022 Report Share Posted December 16, 2022 Rehan Ahmed makes his debut tomorrow. Foakes also back in, Anderson and Jacks drop out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Open End Numb Legs Posted December 16, 2022 Report Share Posted December 16, 2022 Happy to see Ahmed play though a bit surprised as I read that the announcement was before Stokes got to see the pitch so they must be trusting other knowledge as regards Anderson dropping out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted December 16, 2022 Report Share Posted December 16, 2022 (edited) 15 all out! Must be a record surely. Big Bash Edited December 16, 2022 by Super Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Globe Trotter Posted December 16, 2022 Report Share Posted December 16, 2022 2 hours ago, Open End Numb Legs said: Happy to see Ahmed play though a bit surprised as I read that the announcement was before Stokes got to see the pitch so they must be trusting other knowledge as regards Anderson dropping out. Yes looking forward to seeing Ahmed, Anderson is rested with one eye on the Ashes now the series is won. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1960maaan Posted December 16, 2022 Report Share Posted December 16, 2022 9 hours ago, Globe Trotter said: Yes looking forward to seeing Ahmed, Anderson is rested with one eye on the Ashes now the series is won. I love a Leggy, like you looking forward to see how he goes. I was hoping he'd get a game. Sensible resting Anderson for a dead rubber. Good to see Foakes back in, Pope did ok but I always think if you have the best Keeper in the World, you should use him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted December 17, 2022 Report Share Posted December 17, 2022 First one of the day for Jack 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted December 17, 2022 Report Share Posted December 17, 2022 Tough pitch again. Pakistan will be disappointed with all 3 wickets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted December 17, 2022 Report Share Posted December 17, 2022 Great wicket for his first. Lovely to see 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted December 17, 2022 Report Share Posted December 17, 2022 43 minutes ago, And Its Smith said: Tough pitch again. Pakistan will be disappointed with all 3 wickets. And now all 5. It's interesting to compare England's first innings in the first test on a similar wicket to this Pakistan one, Perhaps, despite the protestations of one poster, not all the records that were broken were down to the pitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Globe Trotter Posted December 17, 2022 Report Share Posted December 17, 2022 15 minutes ago, TomF said: Really like the look of Ahmed, nice action. At 18 he’s only going to get better. As the great Shane Warne said to him a few years back, I’ll be commentating on you one day. Just a shame that didn’t happen as I’m sure he would love to see England giving this 18 year old leggie a go in Test cricket 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 17, 2022 Report Share Posted December 17, 2022 Just now, TomF said: Gift from Babar that. Not sure why the review umpire took so long to give it out. I gave it out 5 mins before………..…. Spoiler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted December 17, 2022 Report Share Posted December 17, 2022 And another one for the lad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 17, 2022 Report Share Posted December 17, 2022 Be very handy if England can bowl them out for under 300. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 17, 2022 Report Share Posted December 17, 2022 Two more to go………285-8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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