Football overseas...similarities and differences

[Mr Popodopolous]

Reading one or two things on here inspired this thread.

In Rome on holiday. One of the things I did, with a mate was take in Roma-Inter. Has long been an ambition of mine to go to a game overseas, especially in Serie A. Clearly it's not at it's heyday but it's still not bad! Possibly rising again as a League after a bad period, seems on the up anyway. Apart from the obvious that you have to use passports to buy a ticket as indeed passports/ID seem quite commonplace in Europe, in Italy case mix of Mafia/football hooliganism I suspect. The experience is quite different and the stewards are really rather hands off- makes a difference!

Atmosphere was great. All in all, and I know our lot do a fine job within what they are allowed to do by our laws and rules- we are heavily over-regulated in football as we all know, but taking respective laws and capacity into account, Roma's was something well above this. Helped by the capacity of course but generally a lot more leeway. Something else which stunned me rather- allowed to drink beer in the stand! Poured into plastic pint glasses but the beer felt reasonably strong too, so was quite happy with that.  Little expensive but fancy that- believe it's been banned in UK since 1985 at football in view of the pitch?

Similarities? Well they had stewards of course, but they were very hands off- was in the Distinti Sud which at an Italian ground is next to the curva, the block along from the ultras. This isn't a dig at our stewards BTW who I think do a good job for the most part.

However, a difference was that not many stewards were throwing their weight about. Flags were waved throughout also.

Ticket prices- was about £41 28. Expensive, but then this was a category A game. Roma-Inter is definitely one of the big matches in Italy. Good standard too, despite all that's said about Serie A. In a way, was happier to pay that than in a quieter bit of the ground which though theoretically better...by way of comparison City-Derby in the South Stand (I know the ST deal thing but ordinarily as a category A it would be £33 I believe in the South Stand).

Fancy that though, overall- fans treated as adults- allowed to drink alcohol while watching the game- even had a guy going round with his bag of refreshments with alcohol amongst the items on offer!

Based on my experiences on Saturday, beer in the stand at AG and all English grounds- would be a good plan. Also the stewards didn't seem to mind so much about standing- technically an all-seater!

On the downside, the entertainment is more basic- for example I don't recall a fanzone there though I got there at around kick off time. Less of a range of refreshments too, if modern football is your bag then maybe one might not be so keen. So many people I know went to Barcelona games- and Barcelona are obviously a fabulous side, great ground too- I just wanted to do something different!

Price permitting and on balance, would recommend a Serie A experience tbh. In a variety of ways it's better than the UK football, sorry to say. Wouldn't go to Napoli though, Lazio likewise. 

[cidered abroad]

I took a beer to my seat in the Berlin Olympic stadium when I saw Hertha Berlin play Mainz about five years ago. Ticket price along the side was 15 Euros.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Germany is the best for fans experience and value I reckon, no doubt about it!

Will add this to my OP also, a slightly different point. Derby as a category A game, dunno about that.

[cidered abroad]

You went to see Roma at home, I assume, so why not Lazio in the same stadium?

[JamesBCFC]

I was drinking a pint a few yards from the pitch at a game in Bristol on Monday 

(Yes I realise about that law, presumably doesn't apply at non-league games, as I've never seen it enforced at one)

[Guest]

Watch a fair bit of German football,

Tickets are always under 20 euro wherever i've been - standing has always been the best bet too.

Best atmosphere for me was Augsburg v Mainz, never heard a stadium so loud - I think the inclusion of ultras/a small city really benefits the atmosphere (never had a problem with ultras). Stopped off there before going to Oktoberfest in Munich

Saw Greuther Furth v SV Sandhausen some time last year, outside the ground was a beer shop selling bottles of really decent German beer for around 70-80 cents each, that alone made up for the football that arguably was around League 1 quality (a few players on the Furth team could probably do a job in our side though - look out for Khaled Narey and Robert Zulj)

[chalky]

Good post.

Me and a fellow city fan went over to Holland for the first weekend of their season and watch home games at Den Hagg, PSV and Willem ii so I have a few observations.

Tickets were cheaper, Den Hagg was 21 euros, PSV 33 euros and our friends at Willem II got us free tickets. As you say we could drink in the stands and even smoke... They did have a bit of a fiddly tokens system though which seem to mean you would have some spare at the end so not ideal if going for just one game. 

Atmosphere was much better, they don't let up even when their team is losing and stay to the end which seems to be a big difference. There were large areas where fanatical fans could stand and overall so much more relaxed. They tend to sing the same song for several minutes compared to a new song every 30 seconds here. The whole ground would join in at times which was impressive. 

The away fans experience is totally different over there we didn't see a single away fan outside the ground (away fans travel in much less numbers there too even considering some short trips!). The away section is accessed by a completely separate area and there were long walk ways that were essentially steel tunnels that they would walk through.

Overall it seemed a much better experience although it does help being a neutral when you aren't that bothered by the score! Going back for the Willem II/Breda derby in December.

[spudski]

59 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Reading one or two things on here inspired this thread.

In Rome on holiday. One of the things I did, with a mate was take in Roma-Inter. Has long been an ambition of mine to go to a game overseas, especially in Serie A. Clearly it's not at it's heyday but it's still not bad! Possibly rising again as a League after a bad period, seems on the up anyway. Apart from the obvious that you have to use passports to buy a ticket as indeed passports/ID seem quite commonplace in Europe, in Italy case mix of Mafia/football hooliganism I suspect. The experience is quite different and the stewards are really rather hands off- makes a difference!

Atmosphere was great. All in all, and I know our lot do a fine job within what they are allowed to do by our laws and rules- we are heavily over-regulated in football as we all know, but taking respective laws and capacity into account, Roma's was something well above this. Helped by the capacity of course but generally a lot more leeway. Something else which stunned me rather- allowed to drink beer in the stand! Poured into plastic pint glasses but the beer felt reasonably strong too, so was quite happy with that.  Little expensive but fancy that- believe it's been banned in UK since 1985 at football in view of the pitch?

Similarities? Well they had stewards of course, but they were very hands off- was in the Distinti Sud which at an Italian ground is next to the curva, the block along from the ultras. This isn't a dig at our stewards BTW who I think do a good job for the most part.

However, a difference was that not many stewards were throwing their weight about. Flags were waved throughout also.

Ticket prices- was about £41 28. Expensive, but then this was a category A game. Roma-Inter is definitely one of the big matches in Italy. Good standard too, despite all that's said about Serie A. In a way, was happier to pay that than in a quieter bit of the ground which though theoretically better...by way of comparison City-Derby in the South Stand (I know the ST deal thing but ordinarily as a category A it would be £33 I believe in the South Stand).

Fancy that though, overall- fans treated as adults- allowed to drink alcohol while watching the game- even had a guy going round with his bag of refreshments with alcohol amongst the items on offer!

Based on my experiences on Saturday, beer in the stand at AG and all English grounds- would be a good plan. Also the stewards didn't seem to mind so much about standing- technically an all-seater!

On the downside, the entertainment is more basic- for example I don't recall a fanzone there though I got there at around kick off time. Less of a range of refreshments too, if modern football is your bag then maybe one might not be so keen. So many people I know went to Barcelona games- and Barcelona are obviously a fabulous side, great ground too- I just wanted to do something different!

Price permitting and on balance, would recommend a Serie A experience tbh. In a variety of ways it's better than the UK football, sorry to say. Wouldn't go to Napoli though, Lazio likewise. 

I followed Lazio for many years, watching around Italy.

It's hard to compare the Italian football experience with the English football experience...completely different culture and views.

Going to the ground in Italy is not just about watching the football and supporting your team.

Every conceivable grievance, political, religious etc is demonstrated there.

It's like the Italian Culture has decided, 'if we are going to kick off about anything, we are going to do it in the confines of a Football stadium for 90 mins'.

They get to scream and shout, stand, get pissed, take drugs and put banners up etc etc. They get it out of their systems.

Then during the rest of the week, the majority of Towns and Cities are pleasant places to live, where people act civilised.

Perhaps they should consider it here again...a much nicer environment to live in imo.

[Welcome To The Jungle]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Reading one or two things on here inspired this thread.

In Rome on holiday. One of the things I did, with a mate was take in Roma-Inter. Has long been an ambition of mine to go to a game overseas, especially in Serie A. Clearly it's not at it's heyday but it's still not bad! Possibly rising again as a League after a bad period, seems on the up anyway. Apart from the obvious that you have to use passports to buy a ticket as indeed passports/ID seem quite commonplace in Europe, in Italy case mix of Mafia/football hooliganism I suspect. The experience is quite different and the stewards are really rather hands off- makes a difference!

Atmosphere was great. All in all, and I know our lot do a fine job within what they are allowed to do by our laws and rules- we are heavily over-regulated in football as we all know, but taking respective laws and capacity into account, Roma's was something well above this. Helped by the capacity of course but generally a lot more leeway. Something else which stunned me rather- allowed to drink beer in the stand! Poured into plastic pint glasses but the beer felt reasonably strong too, so was quite happy with that.  Little expensive but fancy that- believe it's been banned in UK since 1985 at football in view of the pitch?

Similarities? Well they had stewards of course, but they were very hands off- was in the Distinti Sud which at an Italian ground is next to the curva, the block along from the ultras. This isn't a dig at our stewards BTW who I think do a good job for the most part.

However, a difference was that not many stewards were throwing their weight about. Flags were waved throughout also.

Ticket prices- was about £41 28. Expensive, but then this was a category A game. Roma-Inter is definitely one of the big matches in Italy. Good standard too, despite all that's said about Serie A. In a way, was happier to pay that than in a quieter bit of the ground which though theoretically better...by way of comparison City-Derby in the South Stand (I know the ST deal thing but ordinarily as a category A it would be £33 I believe in the South Stand).

Fancy that though, overall- fans treated as adults- allowed to drink alcohol while watching the game- even had a guy going round with his bag of refreshments with alcohol amongst the items on offer!

Based on my experiences on Saturday, beer in the stand at AG and all English grounds- would be a good plan. Also the stewards didn't seem to mind so much about standing- technically an all-seater!

On the downside, the entertainment is more basic- for example I don't recall a fanzone there though I got there at around kick off time. Less of a range of refreshments too, if modern football is your bag then maybe one might not be so keen. So many people I know went to Barcelona games- and Barcelona are obviously a fabulous side, great ground too- I just wanted to do something different!

Price permitting and on balance, would recommend a Serie A experience tbh. In a variety of ways it's better than the UK football, sorry to say. Wouldn't go to Napoli though, Lazio likewise. 

Watched Roma play AC last season and it is incomparable. Also saw Inter play at the San Siro and I stood with the Ultras. Flags waved all game, alcohol and smoking allowed, fireworks going off and an atmosphere that didn't stop. The only downside for me was two ID and ticket checks to enter the ground but it is more than worth it. 

[willem ii]

21 minutes ago, chalky said:

Good post.

Me and a fellow city fan went over to Holland for the first weekend of their season and watch home games at Den Hagg, PSV and Willem ii so I have a few observations.

Tickets were cheaper, Den Hagg was 21 euros, PSV 33 euros and our friends at Willem II got us free tickets. As you say we could drink in the stands and even smoke... They did have a bit of a fiddly tokens system though which seem to mean you would have some spare at the end so not ideal if going for just one game. 

Atmosphere was much better, they don't let up even when their team is losing and stay to the end which seems to be a big difference. There were large areas where fanatical fans could stand and overall so much more relaxed. They tend to sing the same song for several minutes compared to a new song every 30 seconds here. The whole ground would join in at times which was impressive. 

The away fans experience is totally different over there we didn't see a single away fan outside the ground (away fans travel in much less numbers there too even considering some short trips!). The away section is accessed by a completely separate area and there were long walk ways that were essentially steel tunnels that they would walk through.

Overall it seemed a much better experience although it does help being a neutral when you aren't that bothered by the score! Going back for the Willem II/Breda derby in December.

@Chalky we will wellcome you once again with open arms in December (the match is on a friday btw)! Probably no free tickets for that match unfortunately... CU soon in Bristol and let me know if I should arrange anything for your trip to Holland/Tilburg!

[poland_exile]

interesting post. My two pence:

As my handle suggests, I live in Poland and have done so for 17 years. Have been going to matches for a long time, but have ramped up in the last few years to see at least  one match a week. Watch a variety of sides around the country who play at different levels, some with bigger crowds than others. Regardless of the team or the division, the atmosphere is fantastic. Several key reasons for that, but price plays its obvious part - even taking into account the lower living standards, the costs are superb. For the equivalent of 3rd flight, you'll be paying apprx three quid behind the goal, for top flight, fiver. I tend to go VIP everywhere though, because why not pay ten quid to get free booze in the best seats as served by fit hostesses (as is the case at Motor Lublin and Widzew Lodz)? In the top flight, the same treatment is available from 30 to 50 quid depending on the team. 

Anyway, helping the atmosphere is the fact that, despite what's written on the ticket, you basically end up sitting wherever you want. Elsewhere, police and stewards will generally try and avoid getting involved unless violence breaks out. otherwise they won't lift a finger: so if there's flares, swearing, standing, drunkenness, burning banners etc, it's basically a case of 'let them get on with it'. Amazing how that effects the atmosphere for the better. The atmosphere, in fact, is ****ing bonkers. I have been to games where there are only 2,500 fans present, and yet the stadium is rocking and you leave talking in a croak. It's a fantastic experience and, if i can be brutal, I feel embarassed when I return to Ashton Gate and see what's become of the standard of support. (that's not a pop at city fans, rather a reflection on how the english game has eaten itself into apathy). 

[Mr Popodopolous]

@cidered abroad Correct. Was at Roma's ground, Stadio Olimpico. Lazio play there likewise- maybe I am overreacting, just read bad things about Lazio fans in the past.

@JamesBCFC My understanding is that it's permitted at Non League games. 

@Eastside Moonwalker That sounds quality! Would not mind at all going to watch a German game, reckon it's fun and indeed cheaper than what I saw Saturday.

@chalky That sounds fun, impressive. Smoking- I noticed this on Saturday too. Was under the impression that smoking banned in public places was an EU law? I also have noticed from past holidays- and can only talk about Italy here- that smoking laws are not exactly obeyed in the same way as here in a variety of public places!

@spudski Didn't see much of that Saturday but don't doubt what you say. I recall you talking about it on here before- probably helped that I didn't understand the chants either- they were in Italian!  Italian cities in general, dunno how much the football feeds into this, but from the places I have been to they seem calmer, more sedate places. Rome for example was not what I expected and Florence seemed quite relaxed when I was there. Drank in a number of bars in Rome, seemed less hectic, less necking alcohol than here on this trip.

@Welcome To The Jungle Again agreed. Also, as I touched upon above, smoking in stadia in possible defiance of the rules...Italian thing or commonplace in grounds across Europe? 

@poland_exile I know someone who moved out to Poland some while back- in late 90s. He's been to Wisla Krakow games, fair bit of what you say rings true. Dunno if he went up the high grade option, but he seemed to speak quite well of football out there, seemed to enjoy it! Value out there does sound very good.

[chalky]

16 minutes ago, poland_exile said:

interesting post. My two pence:

As my handle suggests, I live in Poland and have done so for 17 years. Have been going to matches for a long time, but have ramped up in the last few years to see at least  one match a week. Watch a variety of sides around the country who play at different levels, some with bigger crowds than others. Regardless of the team or the division, the atmosphere is fantastic. Several key reasons for that, but price plays its obvious part - even taking into account the lower living standards, the costs are superb. For the equivalent of 3rd flight, you'll be paying apprx three quid behind the goal, for top flight, fiver. I tend to go VIP everywhere though, because why not pay ten quid to get free booze in the best seats as served by fit hostesses (as is the case at Motor Lublin and Widzew Lodz)? In the top flight, the same treatment is available from 30 to 50 quid depending on the team. 

Anyway, helping the atmosphere is the fact that, despite what's written on the ticket, you basically end up sitting wherever you want. Elsewhere, police and stewards will generally try and avoid getting involved unless violence breaks out. otherwise they won't lift a finger: so if there's flares, swearing, standing, drunkenness, burning banners etc, it's basically a case of 'let them get on with it'. Amazing how that effects the atmosphere for the better. The atmosphere, in fact, is ****ing bonkers. I have been to games where there are only 2,500 fans present, and yet the stadium is rocking and you leave talking in a croak. It's a fantastic experience and, if i can be brutal, I feel embarassed when I return to Ashton Gate and see what's become of the standard of support. (that's not a pop at city fans, rather a reflection on how the english game has eaten itself into apathy). 

Glad to hear this, I'm going to be watching KS Cracovia next month home to jagiellona baga how ever you spell it... Taking the Mrs, 1 zloty for her admission!!

[poland_exile]

 

10 minutes ago, chalky said:

Glad to hear this, I'm going to be watching KS Cracovia next month home to jagiellona baga how ever you spell it... Taking the Mrs, 1 zloty for her admission!!

you'll have a blast! and yes, returning to the subject of admission, there's been a lot of foresight shown - many teams have free admission for kids if booked in advance and, as you note, slashed prices for women. Everything seems so much more geared towards the fans who actively go to watch football, rather than those who watch from the armchair. It's puzzling that attendances aren't higher, but as I say, it doesn't effect the atmosphere one jot. Enjoy your trip!

[JamesBCFC]

I did go to one game overseas.

Galatasaray vs Denizlispor circa February 2007.

Game was a dull 1-1 draw from memory, although Hasan Sas hit the bar with a 35 yard shot

The atmosphere was incredible though, hasn't been a game I've been to over here that came anywhere near close.

When his name was called out and he came onto the pitch, Mondragon (Galatasaray goalkeeper at the time) near jumped into the crowd trying to hype them up- which they didn't need in the slightest.

Everyone was stood for 90 minutes, arms around each others shoulders bouncing up and down the whole time.

At the end of the game a Denizli player dived to waste time, but as he did, he legitmately injured his shoulder.

He was then stretchered off and was dropped onto the shoulder that he had hurt when diving.

Entering the ground there were four pat down searches, anything that could be thrown was confiscated- something the people running the street stalls took full advantage of. There were people selling air horns which were used once before being confiscated and chucked onto a pile. They would then get taken off the pile and sold again!

I was 11 at the time, and after having gone through one search my Dad told me to wait to one side. At this point me, my Dad and the people with us got walked straight past the other security searches because we were English (well, me and my Dad are, my step family who took us to the game are Turkish).

After the match the streets were packed and Besiktas and Fenerbache fans were beeping car horns in celebration that Galatasaray drew against a mid table side.

[SARJ]

Good post & good topic to discuss.

I went to watch Ajax at the Amsterdam Arena last year. Was a great experience. As Englishmen we were made very welcome and they were keen to make us Ajax fans. Friendly staff, stewards not in your face, beautiful stadium and we were allowed to smoke, drink and eat cones of chips drizzled in mayonnaise, a Dutch delicacy.

Before the match they have this posh cafe which is transformed into a disco with this Dutch bloke on tables singing pop tunes, it was epic and the beer was cheap.

Football was great, Kasper Dolber scored a hat-trick in a 5-1 thrashing of N.E.C.

The club shop was also very nice with lots of items and the surrounding area was very smart, lots of trendy bars and eateries.

Only grievance was how much replica kits are abroad. Ajax wanted 89euro for the home shirt. I quite liked it and fancied one as a memento, but couldn't justify spending that cash! That's one thing England does do better!

We also watch Willem II in Tilburg year before last. Similar experience to the above.

[handsofclay]

3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Reading one or two things on here inspired this thread.

In Rome on holiday. One of the things I did, with a mate was take in Roma-Inter. Has long been an ambition of mine to go to a game overseas, especially in Serie A. Clearly it's not at it's heyday but it's still not bad! Possibly rising again as a League after a bad period, seems on the up anyway. Apart from the obvious that you have to use passports to buy a ticket as indeed passports/ID seem quite commonplace in Europe, in Italy case mix of Mafia/football hooliganism I suspect. The experience is quite different and the stewards are really rather hands off- makes a difference!

Atmosphere was great. All in all, and I know our lot do a fine job within what they are allowed to do by our laws and rules- we are heavily over-regulated in football as we all know, but taking respective laws and capacity into account, Roma's was something well above this. Helped by the capacity of course but generally a lot more leeway. Something else which stunned me rather- allowed to drink beer in the stand! Poured into plastic pint glasses but the beer felt reasonably strong too, so was quite happy with that.  Little expensive but fancy that- believe it's been banned in UK since 1985 at football in view of the pitch?

Similarities? Well they had stewards of course, but they were very hands off- was in the Distinti Sud which at an Italian ground is next to the curva, the block along from the ultras. This isn't a dig at our stewards BTW who I think do a good job for the most part.

However, a difference was that not many stewards were throwing their weight about. Flags were waved throughout also.

Ticket prices- was about £41 28. Expensive, but then this was a category A game. Roma-Inter is definitely one of the big matches in Italy. Good standard too, despite all that's said about Serie A. In a way, was happier to pay that than in a quieter bit of the ground which though theoretically better...by way of comparison City-Derby in the South Stand (I know the ST deal thing but ordinarily as a category A it would be £33 I believe in the South Stand).

Fancy that though, overall- fans treated as adults- allowed to drink alcohol while watching the game- even had a guy going round with his bag of refreshments with alcohol amongst the items on offer!

Based on my experiences on Saturday, beer in the stand at AG and all English grounds- would be a good plan. Also the stewards didn't seem to mind so much about standing- technically an all-seater!

On the downside, the entertainment is more basic- for example I don't recall a fanzone there though I got there at around kick off time. Less of a range of refreshments too, if modern football is your bag then maybe one might not be so keen. So many people I know went to Barcelona games- and Barcelona are obviously a fabulous side, great ground too- I just wanted to do something different!

Price permitting and on balance, would recommend a Serie A experience tbh. In a variety of ways it's better than the UK football, sorry to say. Wouldn't go to Napoli though, Lazio likewise. 

I watch a lot of Serie A on BT Sport and take a special interest in Inter. What a great game of football that was and a fantastic result for Inter. As you turned up as the match kicked off I cannot, therefore, ask you if the Roma manager sang Oliver's Army as part of the pre-match entertainment as he looks the spitting image of Elvis Costello to me. Thought the same when he was manager at his previous club, Sassualo. 

I expect the Roma fans were especially peed off seeing it was their former manager who was at the helm for Inter. I am also not surprised to see Crystal Palace doing poorly under DeBoer as he was a waste of space at the San Siro. 

[JamesBCFC]

52 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

I did go to one game overseas.

Galatasaray vs Denizlispor circa February 2007.

Game was a dull 1-1 draw from memory, although Hasan Sas hit the bar with a 35 yard shot

The atmosphere was incredible though, hasn't been a game I've been to over here that came anywhere near close.

When his name was called out and he came onto the pitch, Mondragon (Galatasaray goalkeeper at the time) near jumped into the crowd trying to hype them up- which they didn't need in the slightest.

Everyone was stood for 90 minutes, arms around each others shoulders bouncing up and down the whole time.

At the end of the game a Denizli player dived to waste time, but as he did, he legitmately injured his shoulder.

He was then stretchered off and was dropped onto the shoulder that he had hurt when diving.

Entering the ground there were four pat down searches, anything that could be thrown was confiscated- something the people running the street stalls took full advantage of. There were people selling air horns which were used once before being confiscated and chucked onto a pile. They would then get taken off the pile and sold again!

I was 11 at the time, and after having gone through one search my Dad told me to wait to one side. At this point me, my Dad and the people with us got walked straight past the other security searches because we were English (well, me and my Dad are, my step family who took us to the game are Turkish).

After the match the streets were packed and Besiktas and Fenerbache fans were beeping car horns in celebration that Galatasaray drew against a mid table side.

Too late to edit.

Most of the Turks I know, my Dad knows that are into football have said they like the atmosphere over here better because of its sponatinaety. Something I don't disagree with. I just wish atmospheres like the Rovers JPT game (the only game over here close to being comparable in atmosphere) happened more often.

Mind you, my little sister went to a Galatasaray Champions League game for her first ever match and saw Bristol Manor Farm for her second, but is jealous of the BMF scarf I got my Dad 

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, handsofclay said:

I watch a lot of Serie A on BT Sport and take a special interest in Inter. What a great game of football that was and a fantastic result for Inter. As you turned up as the match kicked off I cannot, therefore, ask you if the Roma manager sang Oliver's Army as part of the pre-match entertainment as he looks the spitting image of Elvis Costello to me. Thought the same when he was manager at his previous club, Sassualo. 

I expect the Roma fans were especially peed off seeing it was their former manager who was at the helm for Inter. I am also not surprised to see Crystal Palace doing poorly under DeBoer as he was a waste of space at the San Siro. 

I too quite like Serie A. Watch some on BT Sport. Spalletti moving to Inter- and slagging off a section of the fans over Totti's final season and criticism he received- that added spice to the game! Not that it needs much adding tbh. A great result indeed for them and he's frankly an excellent manager. I suspect Roma's loss is Inter's gain with that. Costello? Before my time tbh! 

De Boer's failures at Inter and thusfar Palace, surprise me a bit. Had a reasonable record with Ajax in Europe, assumed he would have done alright at one or the other.

[22A]

3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

a slightly different point. Derby as a category A game, dunno about that.

Someone probably thought "It's a derby game" so made it category A

[spudski]

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

@cidered abroad Correct. Was at Roma's ground, Stadio Olimpico. Lazio play there likewise- maybe I am overreacting, just read bad things about Lazio fans in the past.

@JamesBCFC My understanding is that it's permitted at Non League games. 

@Eastside Moonwalker That sounds quality! Would not mind at all going to watch a German game, reckon it's fun and indeed cheaper than what I saw Saturday.

@chalky That sounds fun, impressive. Smoking- I noticed this on Saturday too. Was under the impression that smoking banned in public places was an EU law? I also have noticed from past holidays- and can only talk about Italy here- that smoking laws are not exactly obeyed in the same way as here in a variety of public places!

@spudski Didn't see much of that Saturday but don't doubt what you say. I recall you talking about it on here before- probably helped that I didn't understand the chants either- they were in Italian!  Italian cities in general, dunno how much the football feeds into this, but from the places I have been to they seem calmer, more sedate places. Rome for example was not what I expected and Florence seemed quite relaxed when I was there. Drank in a number of bars in Rome, seemed less hectic, less necking alcohol than here on this trip.

@Welcome To The Jungle Again agreed. Also, as I touched upon above, smoking in stadia in possible defiance of the rules...Italian thing or commonplace in grounds across Europe? 

@poland_exile I know someone who moved out to Poland some while back- in late 90s. He's been to Wisla Krakow games, fair bit of what you say rings true. Dunno if he went up the high grade option, but he seemed to speak quite well of football out there, seemed to enjoy it! Value out there does sound very good.

To understand Italian football and it's football culture, read 'A season with Verona, by Tim Parks. An excellent read and proper insight ;-)

[chinapig]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

To understand Italian football and it's football culture, read 'A season with Verona, by Tim Parks. An excellent read and proper insight ;-)

Agreed, read it some years ago.

Hellas Verona, not that Chievo lot mind you. 

Won the Scudetto in the 80s, when their nearest thing to a star player was Preben Elkjaer. 

[bristolcitysweden]

Quality of football? I go to watch football.

[spudski]

13 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Agreed, read it some years ago.

Hellas Verona, not that Chievo lot mind you. 

Won the Scudetto in the 80s, when their nearest thing to a star player was Preben Elkjaer. 

Last time I went to watch Hellas Verona was when Adrian Mutu played for them.

Chievo...the flying Donkeys...how that name came back to haunt Hellas :laugh:

[bristolcitysweden]

A pity we got lost of Carlos Santos

[chalky]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

To understand Italian football and it's football culture, read 'A season with Verona, by Tim Parks. An excellent read and proper insight ;-)

Never heard of that one. Looking at the reviews on Amazon, looks quality. Going to buy it! Any other similar recommendations?

[spudski]

3 minutes ago, chalky said:

Never heard of that one. Looking at the reviews on Amazon, looks quality. Going to buy it! Any other similar recommendations?

It's a good en, as are most of Tim Parks books.

The Miracle of Castel Di Sangro [Jr Joe McGinniss] is another Italian inspired book. Very insightful to how crooked Italian football is /was.

The nowhere men is also good if you want to know about scouting.

[Mr Popodopolous]

@spudski @chalky

Funnily enough was about to recommeand that one earlier. About Castel Del Sangro- think have it at home somewhere.

Will definitely keep an eye out for that Hellas Verona book too.