Q and A tonight

[nebristolred]

Thanks very much for those providing insight, much appreciated.

I must admit this is the first I've heard of this occurring, and I would have been very interested in turning up had I known. Maybe that says more about me than the club but maybe a little more promo and they might have a better audience next time. I almost feel embarrassed on the fans part that we didn't have many there so it would be good to significantly improve that number next time!

[Ian M]

13 minutes ago, hodge said:

Oh you tease 

Is that your answer?

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, pongo88 said:

The Q&A seemed to be an interesting event and many thanks to those who have summarised the discussion. (Unfortunately I couldn't attend due to my busy social life - I'd scheduled a cup of cocoa and chocky biscuit for 7.30 and couldn't change it). The technical side of recruitment sounds excellent and I was impressed by LJ sitting in bed looking at his laptop, though I'm not sure what Mrs LJ thinks of this. I'm sure this is what City need to focus on (the technical side not sitting in bed looking at a laptop),  as the club can't compete with the big spenders. It probably enabled LJ to get the job at his interview and it really impresses Steve Lansdown. Unfortunately, there are other unanswered questions such as is LJ a good tactician, a good man manager? Can he select the correct team / formation for each match? Can he think on his feet and react quickly during a match when things are going badly so as to change things?

These areas seem to be the weaknesses. If City are focusing on getting young players and developing them, the same should apply to LJ. He should have an experienced assistant manager who has been there, done it and got the biscuit, to help him. Dean Holden and Jamie McAllister have hardly set the footballing world alight   

Can just imagine Mrs LJ and LJ at home, LJ in bed, Mrs LJ putting the cocoa on.

Mrs LJ "Lee, do you want me to make you a drink?"

LJ - shouting downstairs "Uh, sorry love, what was that"

Mrs LJ "I said do you want a cocoa?"

LJ "sorry, didn't hear you, yes please love"

Mrs LJ "What you doing up there?"

LJ "nothing love"

Mrs LJ "you're on that laptop again aren't you?"

LJ "no love, honestly"

Mrs LJ "you are, I can hear you getting all excited.  If I find out from your browsing history you've been on Opta Stats and Prozone I'll be fuming and I'll be having words with Uncle Steve"

LJ "no I'm not honestly, just been watching some video of a couple of Swedish crackers, showed all their best bits off too"

Mrs LJ "oh, thank god for that, i don't mind you watching that stuff"

 

[Chivs]

29 minutes ago, Ian M said:

Is that your answer?

hairdresser? Car washer?  Start Prozone and explain the graphs?  Come on, tell us!

[Olé]

Captured for posterity @St Aldhelms Red. An unconventional 1-1-1-1-1-1 formation.

 

[Olé]

On 07/09/2017 at 21:41, petehinton said:

Showed us the clubs recruitment video to all players we want to sign which is like a 10 minute highlight reel about the club, the city, attractions etc which is immense. Is shown to all players & agents & clubs that we may have interest in.

Have heard about this video before and been fascinated by it, being interested in marketing (www.southbristol.com) I'm interested to see what it looks like (as someone who like many of us, has taken outsiders round Bristol and created the wow factor).

I can understand if he wants to keep the magic for prospective signings but I think all City fans who have STs or travel home and away yet live outside the city they love should be allowed to see it once or twice just to keep morale up. @AdamB 

[WTFiGO!?!]

17 hours ago, redapple said:

Ye of little faith. You've been following City far to long and your anti-establishment cynical views are clouding your judgement of the revolution in the making. You wanted a revolution, well it's here ! There have been coughs and splutters and there will be a few more, but surely you can see somethings happening ? 

I'm not sure if this was directed at me but if I assume it is, something is happening.  The same old talk with us sat in our traditional status quo.  Too strong for league 1, also-rans in the Championship.

When this changes for the better, the current talk will be validated.  

Please tell me, is the revolution here or is it still in the making?  Your post contradicts itself.

It sounds to me like someone's brains have been pickled by corporate bullshit.

[Up The City!]

5 hours ago, bristolcitysweden said:

People did not turn up because they new it was a politically correct rigged up event. With Adam Baker as moderator it would have been given a go.

Well they missed out then because it wasn't like that at all. It was an open and honest evening.

[The Constant Rabbit]

On ‎8‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 10:06, Up The City! said:

I can certainly tell your glass is half empty. 

As others have said there was a lot of problems last season, our club kept getting punched in the nose time and time again is how MA described it.

What is important is we have come through that and we are stronger for that experience. Time for people like you to let it go yea?

What is fundamentally clear is that this club, as a whole is a much better club overall than it was this time a year ago. This time next year I expect us to be in am even better shape than we currently are today. Every single employee of BCFC have been made aware that every single day this club expects us to make progress. 

Anyone remember the motto MA is now using?

 

On ‎8‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 09:51, SX227 said:

Mark Ashton described it as we are a rocket ship ready to take off with everyone watching. We are a hot topic in the football world right now. Everyone in football are talking about the young team we are assembling.

I would like nothing more than to see the club I first saw with my own eyes in 1969 become successful on a permanent basis.

I hope that you are right that things are on the up behind the scenes, I really, really do.

However, I cannot take seriously the words attributed to Ashton last night.

Everyone in Football is talking about Bristol City?

What, the boards of Man City, Liverpool etc are keeping an eye on us because Ashton said so?

I hope we are improving, but swallowing every corporate word that comes out of MA's mouth is naive in the extreme. He is a company man, no more no less. Do you expect him to say "Burton are laughing at us because we have wasted so much money on poor signings?"

Of course not.

There must be balance between words uttered at a QA to a pretty much tame audience and the results at 4.50pm on a Saturday afternoon.

I genuinely admire your optimism, but you do sound like one of Wallys disciples on gaschat sometimes.

No offence intended at all mate, I know you have been an LJ supporter from day 1

Anyhow, here's to 3 points today at Reading. I'm sure we both want that! 

[downendcity]

8 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Here's  a quick teaser for any of  you not there last night then to consider overnight 

Ravel Benitez employs , at his own expense , a member of staff / person

to do ............... what ?

 

Couldn't believe what I heard and had to check afterwards what I thought I'd heard

To teach him Geordie?

[tinman85]

5 hours ago, SX227 said:

 

I would like nothing more than to see the club I first saw with my own eyes in 1969 become successful on a permanent basis.

I hope that you are right that things are on the up behind the scenes, I really, really do.

However, I cannot take seriously the words attributed to Ashton last night.

Everyone in Football is talking about Bristol City?

What, the boards of Man City, Liverpool etc are keeping an eye on us because Ashton said so?

I hope we are improving, but swallowing every corporate word that comes out of MA's mouth is naive in the extreme. He is a company man, no more no less. Do you expect him to say "Burton are laughing at us because we have wasted so much money on poor signings?"

Of course not.

There must be balance between words uttered at a QA to a pretty much tame audience and the results at 4.50pm on a Saturday afternoon.

I genuinely admire your optimism, but you do sound like one of Wallys disciples on gaschat sometimes.

No offence intended at all mate, I know you have been an LJ supporter from day 1

Anyhow, here's to 3 points today at Reading. I'm sure we both want that! 

Totally. Ashton and Johnson are all talk. About time we saw a win!!!

[BobBobSuperBob]

Part Three

 

Having demonstrated how the software and data is used in identifying and recruiting players LJ explained that all the data could be used for different reasons

Using another screenshot / slide LJ explained that for example he can talk to Jamie Patterson , for example and show him how he matches up in many respects to Knockhart or even Pedro and points out to JP that if they can 'bump up' some of the attributes where he's say a 5/10 up to a 7 or 8 out of ten they can improve / develop him as a player.

If Jamie Patterson buys into this he explained he can for example say to JP we need to get you in goalscoring areas more, to score more goals

He explained that  for example JP knows he has the ability , as does LJ to get on the ball , cut inside and bend a ball in the top corner but points out most goals are scored in the POMO (Position Of Maxiumum Opportunity - which in essence are far and front post) and shows JP a heat map essentially showing his positioning and asking why he doesn't get in POMO areas as much as he maybe could / needed to as he needed to arrive in the POMO areas to maximise his goalscoring opportunities

LJ explained that JP may say that he waits on the edge of the box for a defenders half clearance to chest it down and volley it in the top corner 

LJ explains that yes he can do that as he has the ability to do that but explains in percentage terms he will get far more goalscoring opportunities if he arrives in the POMO areas

LJ suggested that comparing the players to other highly regarded players helps and Using the other players Stats and heat maps LJ can demonstrate

LJ explained that last season JP got four goals but scored from areas wheee statistically shows he could only expect to average three goals and statistically this showed his ability was higher than the areas he was operating in (As a goal threat)

he compared JPs shooting areas to Knockharts who got 15 goals and could show JP that his shooting abilities were similar in quality / rating to Knockharts but that Knockhart was merely getting in and shooting from different areas (LJ pointed out that Knockharts had in fairness played more games than JP so the total goals return difference was exaggerated but the point remained)

LJ explained that using the software and comparing to another highly regarded player helped 'sell' the coaching point to his player , (In this case convincing JP he would benefit in arriving at the far post more ) (even then it was interesting that arriving at the POMO area ten times will still only give a player a %60 chance of ONE touch) which he explained is needed , as he explained that players had changed and the days of justing tell them to do something and they would robotically do it ,had gone , that they were young men and this era was different 

He reiterated that being able to show / prove what he was saying helps him sell the coaching points to the players and the technology they have not only aids in recruitment but as a coaching aid / tool as well

He said that the players had really bought into this and would all come in to look at aspects where they could similarly use the data and LJ highlighted MT as particularly being fascinated in it 

LJ said that this things / points sometimes apppear obvious but as a player they are not / may not be and used the example that as a player at Yeovil he had a mental barrier about getting in the oppositions penalty box as he saw himself as a support player and had to really work hard , mentally on overcoming that mindset and ended up getting into the box and subsequently scored 12 goals in six months at Yeovil

A half hearted question was then asked to LJ about how well he sleep before a match and LJ said that he's sleeping better with this squad than maybe last years and went on to say that he wanted to feel that everyone's in it together and indicated he felt that that sometimes he had needed to 'goad the work rate out of a couple' and said that 'when we work hard , run and hustle , we are a good side' and explained his ethos of playing was to be busy little bees creating a numerical advantage all over the pitch , with players who want and can handle the ball and can win the ball back , and said if you 'have all three in the Championship you have a chance'

 

 

@Ian M or any mod could you edit the text size for me please  

There's more to come , sorry if it's long but didn't see much point in just saying .... LJ then showed the data can be used to help show players what they're doing right/ wrong / could do better'

I thought the example used was very good and interesting and hopefully a few will too shows the detail that everything is gone  into these days

Is it too long winded ?  would people prefer a brief resume or shall I keep going ?  

Finding it interesting myself going back over it

 

Thanks for changing text size @Chris

[Phileas Fogg]

Keep going with them @BobBobSuperBob, enjoying the full detail 

[Bristol Rob]

Am I the only one here who has such a limited knowledge of football I had no idea who Knockhart was?

I thought he was a crap defence against the dark arts teacher.

[robin_unreliant]

19 hours ago, JamesBCFC said:

May be crossed wires as I wasnt there, but from another post I got the impression LJ put down what he thought was the best 11 in the Championship, and used the scouting software to find similar from that, rather than building the best team from the software (apologies if I misread your post).

So Knockaert was the best in his position in LJs opinion, so a search was conducted using what was known about him style and attribute wise, which is where Eliasson cropped up.

 

Gary's ultimate putdown when questioned by the fans always used to be 'we're not playing a game of championship manager'. Basically ridiculing the idea that you can build a team the way you would in that type of game. Several posters now are saying that Lee is doing exactly that. I would be a lot more confident if we had a leader whose contacts, experience and football knowledge was driving the decisions. 

[Ian M]

31 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

Gary's ultimate putdown when questioned by the fans always used to be 'we're not playing a game of championship manager'. Basically ridiculing the idea that you can build a team the way you would in that type of game. Several posters now are saying that Lee is doing exactly that. I would be a lot more confident if we had a leader whose contacts, experience and football knowledge was driving the decisions. 

I get your point but it's more a mix of the two approaches and the search is more to highlight players that you might otherwise have been unaware of.

Unlike in management games the search is made using actual actions the player has performed during a real life game rather than a rating assigned to him by an observer (eg you search for players who make upwards of 80 passes in a game, with a 80% success rate, where 25% are forward passes rather than looking for someone who has been assigned 15/20 at passing and 13/20 in vision - but they actually search on more categories than in this example).

Once that player has been identified they are able to within the software see their highlight reel (fancier version of a youtube vid showing their best bits) and if the player is still impressing at that point they have the ability within the software again to watch all of their team's last 15 games. The analyst then clips the match to show every piece of involvement by that player (attempted tackles, passes, runs off the ball to draw a man etc) and if they still impress they start to send scouts to watch them. 

Finally if reports are still good, Lee goes to watch them himself. 

Although the player has been identified through a Football Manager style search, they still rely on old fashioned viewing with their own eyes to see if its a player they feel they can work with. They said that for every player they identify through this process, 90 are discarded, by using this software they just widen the net whilst potentially cutting down on wasted journeys. 

[Phileas Fogg]

29 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

Gary's ultimate putdown when questioned by the fans always used to be 'we're not playing a game of championship manager'. Basically ridiculing the idea that you can build a team the way you would in that type of game. Several posters now are saying that Lee is doing exactly that. I would be a lot more confident if we had a leader whose contacts, experience and football knowledge was driving the decisions. 

What's your criticism exactly? All LJ is doing is using stats to identify possible targets, then he scouts them 'the old fashioned way'.

We're not just using a video game to find our targets, it would be a huge disservice to suggest that based on all the due diligence the club clearly do.

[Bar BS3]

On 08/09/2017 at 10:28, Alan Dicks' Barmy Army said:

No offence, but you write that as it everyone can get to the ground

I live over 100 miles away, and that is before taking into account the location I am working that day. To put such a flippant comment is a bit insulting to your fellow supporters

What I am gauging from this thread is that there was not enough time to ask some questions as they had been shown a presentation etc?

I thought the evening was a Q&A event? Not for staff in attendance to lead the floor with pre-prepared videos etc?

Where you live is irrelevant to the club putting on an event to include supporters. If indeed you are one of those who critisise the club on that front. 

It's hardly their fault that you are based that far away and it doesn't alter the fact that last week they put on an open training session even and this week, the senior management welcomed questions from supporters and have behind the scenes insights. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

12 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Here's  a quick teaser for any of  you not there last night then to consider overnight 

Ravel Benitez employs , at his own expense , a member of staff / person

to do ............... what ?

 

Couldn't believe what I heard and had to check afterwards what I thought I'd heard

Ohhhhh ..... And the answer is ...

Rafael Benitez employs , at his own expense ,

 

somebody to sit , and watch the opposition manager , and everything he's doing during the game. 

(For any instructions he's giving , changes he's making)

Even in this modern era I still find that crazy , but Benitez is a Champions League Winner !!

[pongo88]

23 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Ohhhhh ..... And the answer is ...

Rafael Benitez employs , at his own expense ,

 

somebody to sit , and watch the opposition manager , and everything he's doing during the game. 

(For any instructions he's giving , changes he's making)

Even in this modern era I still find that crazy , but Benitez is a Champions League Winner !!

That's not too bad. When Peter Risdale was in charge of Leeds, someone was paid £20 per month to feed the goldfish. (At the club's expense)

[redapple]

13 hours ago, WTFiGO!?! said:

I'm not sure if this was directed at me but if I assume it is, something is happening.  The same old talk with us sat in our traditional status quo.  Too strong for league 1, also-rans in the Championship.

When this changes for the better, the current talk will be validated.  

Please tell me, is the revolution here or is it still in the making?  Your post contradicts itself.

It sounds to me like someone's brains have been pickled by corporate bullshit.

No it wasn't directed at you , it was a slightly tongue in cheek dig at someone equally passionate but equally cynical. I posted it while doing half a dozen early morning chores at the same time and ended up not posting his quote which defeated the point of it ! 

Is the revolution here ? No not really as business classes don't do revolution, but there is a far better organised club, team and management than I recall ever seeing down there and I like what I see and hear, and it all makes good sense. I've been optimistic about different regimes in the past, notably Danny Wilson and Joe Jordan's teams only for it to end badly, but I think this time there's good strength in depth, good quality and they all seem to have bought into his ideas. 

I'm the last person who buys corporate bullshit it's just an irrational passion for that bloody football club. 

[NickJ]

14 minutes ago, redapple said:

No it wasn't directed at you , it was a slightly tongue in cheek dig at someone equally passionate but equally cynical. I posted it while doing half a dozen early morning chores at the same time and ended up not posting his quote which defeated the point of it ! 

Is the revolution here ? No not really as business classes don't do revolution, but there is a far better organised club, team and management than I recall ever seeing down there and I like what I see and hear, and it all makes good sense. I've been optimistic about different regimes in the past, notably Danny Wilson and Joe Jordan's teams only for it to end badly, but I think this time there's good strength in depth, good quality and they all seem to have bought into his ideas. 

I'm the last person who buys corporate bullshit it's just an irrational passion for that bloody football club. 

Danny Wilson's regime ended badly - for Danny Wilson.

He improved our league position every single season, playing entertaining football comprised of very many local lads who had come through the academy - thought that's what SL wanted? - and then was sacked.

[Up The City!]

2 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Ohhhhh ..... And the answer is ...

Rafael Benitez employs , at his own expense ,

 

somebody to sit , and watch the opposition manager , and everything he's doing during the game. 

(For any instructions he's giving , changes he's making)

Even in this modern era I still find that crazy , but Benitez is a Champions League Winner !!

To add to this LJ mentioned he was about to make a sub at St James Park and he saw this man go up and whisper this unto Benitez ear so didn't make the sub to prove some sort of point.

LJ commented he and the rest of the management team really enjoy pitting themselves against managers like Benitez,  they enjoy the tactical battle. LJ is really looking forward to today's game as Stam is a tactical genius. 

[Up The City!]

6 minutes ago, NickJ said:

Danny Wilson's regime ended badly - for Danny Wilson.

He improved our league position every single season, playing entertaining football comprised of very many local lads who had come through the academy - thought that's what SL wanted? - and then was sacked.

Was he sacked? I thought he wanted to keep a psychologist on board he had recently brought in but was denied permission and that was the tipping point?

[JamesBCFC]

13 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

Was he sacked? I thought he wanted to keep a psychologist on board he had recently brought in but was denied permission and that was the tipping point?

Wiki says his contract expired and wasn't renewed.

[Up The City!]

10 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Wiki says his contract expired and wasn't renewed.

Yep that's how I remember it. I think we would have kept him on but it was made very clear to him there would be some severe cut backs, Danny liked to spend money so wasn't at all keen on hanging around with a reduced budget so we both went our separate ways. We then operated under a reduced budget and went for the cheap option and were appalling. 

[nebristolred]

For all of GJ's apparent faults, one thing he can 100% be credited for is getting rid of the drinking culture at the club, which for me is the only reason we weren't promoted under Danny Wilson. Very good team with local lads and a manager who was probably too nice. Definitely still have a soft spot for DW.

[JamesBCFC]

12 minutes ago, nebristolred said:

For all of GJ's apparent faults, one thing he can 100% be credited for is getting rid of the drinking culture at the club, which for me is the only reason we weren't promoted under Danny Wilson. Very good team with local lads and a manager who was probably too nice. Definitely still have a soft spot for DW.

Wilson was still living up north and travelling down to Bristol wasn't he?

[Ian M]

32 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Wilson was still living up north and travelling down to Bristol wasn't he?

Yeah up Chesterfield way and I believe his absence allowed the booze culture to exist moreso than had he been around all the time. 

[EmersonsRed]

On 08/09/2017 at 13:28, RumRed said:

Come back to us when there's evidence *ahem*

1 loss in 6 negative Nancy, 1 in 8 if we include cup games including a solid premier league outfit. BUT NO. WE ARE DOOMED. WE ARE GLOOMED. RUMRED TOLD ME SO!!!

 

Have a good night... COYR