Aston Villa's Allocation/Sold (Merged)

[TV Tom]

1 hour ago, 1960maaan said:

It was WMP that reduced our allocation I seem to remember, mind you , I still wouldn't have given them the extra.

Yet they gave B’ham & Dirty Leeds the full allocation!!!

[TV Tom]

1 hour ago, Loosey Boy said:

As long as we get the equivalent allocation by way of a percentage of ground capacity, jobs a good 'un!

Then again, WMP will get involved!

Villa certainly won’t be giving us %10 of 43,000 it’s more like %4

[1960maaan]

7 hours ago, harrys said:

Yet they gave B’ham & Dirty Leeds the full allocation!!!

Yep, saw the posted at the time. Very strange, you don't think there's a WMP grudge against us do you ???

[Tinmans Love Child]

Personally I like bug away followings, creates a much better atmosphere, if we go 1-0 up it doesn’t matter how many fans they have, they will be silent, COYR

[RedRaw]

23 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

Personally I like bug away followings, creates a much better atmosphere,

So you are you ANTicipating a good atmosphere on Friday then? They had better BEE on their best behaviour......

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

Personally I like bug away followings, creates a much better atmosphere, if we go 1-0 up it doesn’t matter how many fans they have, they will be silent, COYR

I would give the minimum amount possible to every away side if it was up to me. Any advantage (no matter how small) taken away from an away side is a plus, and will get you an extra few points by the end of the season. Depends if you think losing a few quid is worth the exchange for the points.

[TV Tom]

23 minutes ago, wood_red said:

I would give the minimum amount possible to every away side if it was up to me. Any advantage (no matter how small) taken away from an away side is a plus, and will get you an extra few points by the end of the season. Depends if you think losing a few quid is worth the exchange for the points.

My thoughts entirely 

[Tinmans Love Child]

2 hours ago, wood_red said:

I would give the minimum amount possible to every away side if it was up to me. Any advantage (no matter how small) taken away from an away side is a plus, and will get you an extra few points by the end of the season. Depends if you think losing a few quid is worth the exchange for the points.

If 20k home fans can’t out sing 4k away fans that’s the real issue for me.  The difference between 3-4K allocation for away fans is minimal anyway in terms of them gaining an advantage IMO.  Additional away fans creating an atmosphere will spur the home fans to sing more thus creating a more hostile atmosphere for the away team

[ChippenhamRed]

2 hours ago, wood_red said:

I would give the minimum amount possible to every away side if it was up to me. Any advantage (no matter how small) taken away from an away side is a plus, and will get you an extra few points by the end of the season. Depends if you think losing a few quid is worth the exchange for the points.

So you’d be happy for all clubs to do the same to us presumably, therefore denying our fans tickets to games they would like to have attended, and denying the advantage our team might have gained from additional away support?

Overall who wins from your approach exactly?

[City exile 79]

3 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

So you’d be happy for all clubs to do the same to us presumably, therefore denying our fans tickets to games they would like to have attended, and denying the advantage our team might have gained from additional away support?

Overall who wins from your approach exactly?

I agree with what you’re saying to a certain degree. I also think we should limit teams that limit us e.g Villa, Cardiff Leeds . Especially when they have the capacity to have a large away following. 

[TV Tom]

1 hour ago, ChippenhamRed said:

So you’d be happy for all clubs to do the same to us presumably, therefore denying our fans tickets to games they would like to have attended, and denying the advantage our team might have gained from additional away support?

Overall who wins from your approach exactly?

But the thing is that Villa I’ll still only give us 2000 tickets like they have for the past 2 seasons whereas they give other teams the maximum allocation of over 2700

[TV Tom]

1 hour ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

If 20k home fans can’t out sing 4k away fans that’s the real issue for me.  The difference between 3-4K allocation for away fans is minimal anyway in terms of them gaining an advantage IMO.  Additional away fans creating an atmosphere will spur the home fans to sing more thus creating a more hostile atmosphere for the away team

A lot less than 4000 can outsing  20k+ home fans, were you at WBA last week?

1 hour ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

If 20k home fans can’t out sing 4k away fans that’s the real issue for me.  The difference between 3-4K allocation for away fans is minimal anyway in terms of them gaining an advantage IMO.  Additional away fans creating an atmosphere will spur the home fans to sing more thus creating a more hostile atmosphere for the away team

A lot less than 4000 can outsing  20k+ home fans, were you at WBA last week?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, ChippenhamRed said:

So you’d be happy for all clubs to do the same to us presumably, therefore denying our fans tickets to games they would like to have attended, and denying the advantage our team might have gained from additional away support?

Overall who wins from your approach exactly?

The home side wins overall from my approach (and why shouldn't they). I am hardly saying give them one block with a few hundred tickets. There is a minimum allocation for away fans, yet it seems when it suits that this rule doesn't apply (Villa being a prime contender) As said above, certain clubs seem to do it whenever they want to - and Villa done it to us last season along with Cardiff, when others get given more by them. Away teams do not have the right to demand however many they want over the minimum allocation. We could sell many more tickets for our away games that sell out - it doesn't mean will get a single ticket over the minimum allocation though - or in some cases we don't even get that.

[ChippenhamRed]

31 minutes ago, harrys said:

But the thing is that Villa I’ll still only give us 2000 tickets like they have for the past 2 seasons whereas they give other teams the maximum allocation of over 2700

That’s a different question. I was responding to the suggestion that we should give the minimum to ALL clubs.

I agree Villa should treat us as we treat them, and I would also say the we shouldn’t be giving a bigger allocation until they have agreed to do the same in return.

But to suggest that we should give every club the minimum benefits no-one if we expect to be treated the same in return. Think of some of greatest away days in the last few years; Coventry, MK Dons, Fulham, Reading spring to mind. None of these would have happened if clubs did the same to us.

No one wins from that;

Fans of all clubs miss out

Clubs make less money

Atmospheres suffer

Empty seats make for less of a spectacle.

[ChippenhamRed]

6 minutes ago, wood_red said:

The home side wins overall from my approach (and why shouldn't they). I am hardly saying give them one block with a few hundred tickets. There is a minimum allocation for away fans, yet it seems when it suits that this rule doesn't apply (Villa being a prime contender) As said above, certain clubs seem to do it whenever they want to - and Villa done it to us last season along with Cardiff, when others get given more by them. Away teams do not have the right to demand however many they want over the minimum allocation. We could sell many more tickets for our away games that sell out - it doesn't mean will get a single ticket over the minimum allocation though - or in some cases we don't even get that.

Simple answer: clubs should treat others the same as they would want to be treated themselves. That shouldn’t mean bare minimum allocations. There have been plenty of times when we’ve been given more than the minimum.

I do agree that Villa should not get a larger allocation if we haven’t agreed in advance with them that we will be treated accordingly.

[ChippenhamRed]

2 hours ago, City exile 79 said:

I agree with what you’re saying to a certain degree. I also think we should limit teams that limit us e.g Villa, Cardiff Leeds . Especially when they have the capacity to have a large away following. 

Cardiff is a good example and I absolutely agree that we should not have had a smaller allocation than they got when they came to us, which is what happened last season.

Such things should be agreed in advance so that it’s fair and equal for both clubs. But that shouldn’t mean tit-for-tat bare minimum allocations.

[Mr Popodopolous]

6 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

That’s a different question. I was responding to the suggestion that we should give the minimum to ALL clubs.

I agree Villa should treat us as we treat them, and I would also say the we shouldn’t be giving a bigger allocation until they have agreed to do the same in return.

But to suggest that we should give every club the minimum benefits no-one if we expect to be treated the same in return. Think of some of greatest away days in the last few years; Coventry, MK Dons, Fulham, Reading spring to mind. None of these would have happened if clubs did the same to us.

 No one wins from that;

Fans of all clubs miss out

Clubs make less money

Atmospheres suffer

Empty seats make for less of a spectacle.

All this is true- big away followings can spur home fans and vice versa- it's an interesting argument.

This bit also plays a role- whenever you see a ground (say AG with lower Atyeo unsold), with TV angles especially on highlights it looks terrible on TV. TV viewer may not know what is home end, away end and it looks like empty seats empty seats etc.

Would also add that artificially restricted allocations runs the risk of groups of away fans surreptitiously in home ends, with all the associated risks of trouble that brings about if they score and remain less than surreptitious!

@harrys How much is down to WMP however?

I should also add, that on the other side of the argument I just put big and vocal away followings can certainly outsing the home fans- travelled longer, drinking for longer, no real restrictions on standing etc- 4k away fans or even 3k, concentrated together definitely can make a hell of a racket- but that may also spur on home fans too!

[JBFC II]

I think the problem with allocations is that it's often up to the Police.

At Villa the WMP will most probably be the ones who reduce our allocation, much like the Heddlu did in Cardiff last season

[TV Tom]

3 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Simple answer: clubs should treat others the same as they would want to be treated themselves. That shouldn’t mean bare minimum allocations. There have been plenty of times when we’ve been given more than the minimum.

I do agree that Villa should not get a larger allocation if we haven’t agreed in advance with them that we will be treated accordingly.

We give them 15% of our capacity they give us 4% of their capacity and would rather have 13,000 empty seats, hardly fair is it, if I had my way i’d Give them 1000 tickets the rest of them can watch the game on the red button in Pontins down Brean

[TV Tom]

4 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

I think the problem with allocations is that it's often up to the Police.

At Villa the WMP will most probably be the ones who reduce our allocation, much like the Heddlu did in Cardiff last season

Our hooligan element is not on the same level as the likes of Villa, B’ham, Leeds but they don’t seem to get reduced allocations any where, last year we had reduced numbers at Cardiff, B’ham, Villa and even QPR

[ZiderEyed]

4 minutes ago, harrys said:

We give them 15% of our capacity they give us 4% of their capacity and would rather have 13,000 empty seats, hardly fair is it, if I had my way i’d Give them 1000 tickets the rest of them can watch the game on the red button in Pontins down Brean

Which is just screwing over fans of the football club who haven't done anything wrong to begin with?

[JBFC II]

2 minutes ago, harrys said:

Our hooligan element is not on the same level as the likes of Villa, B’ham, Leeds but they don’t seem to get reduced allocations any where, last year we had reduced numbers at Cardiff, B’ham, Villa and even QPR

Still not really the clubs fault though, so in my opinion it's slightly harsh giving reduced allocations to others when it isn't up to them

[TV Tom]

2 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

Still not really the clubs fault though, so in my opinion it's slightly harsh giving reduced allocations to others when it isn't up to them

Well it might persuade the club to act more fairly if their own fans started complaining about having such small allocations

[pillred]

2 hours ago, City exile 79 said:

I agree with what you’re saying to a certain degree. I also think we should limit teams that limit us e.g Villa, Cardiff Leeds . Especially when they have the capacity to have a large away following. 

two wrongs don't make a right, best not to stoop to their level.

[JBFC II]

1 minute ago, harrys said:

Well it might persuade the club to act more fairly if their own fans started complaining about having such small allocations

But it isn't up to the club, it's up to the police?

The police aren't going to care less what fans have to say as long as they stay out of trouble, hence why they give us small allocations

[TV Tom]

7 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

But it isn't up to the club, it's up to the police?

The police aren't going to care less what fans have to say as long as they stay out of trouble, hence why they give us small allocations

Just seems odd to me that historically troubleshooting clubs like Leeds, B’ham, Sheff Utd get the full allocation at VP while we get nearly 1000 less depriving many honest and well behaved fans the right to see their club, still, there are plenty of apologists trying to justify and excuse this

[Mr Popodopolous]

9 minutes ago, harrys said:

Just seems odd to me that historically troubleshooting clubs like Leeds, B’ham, Sheff Utd get the full allocation at VP while we get nearly 1000 less depriving many honest and well behaved fans the right to see their club, still, there are plenty of apologists trying to justify and excuse this

Except I'm not sure it's as simple as that- because in recent years.

• Newcastle in 16/17 were given 2,800 there which surely is lower than the max allocation.
• Birmingham- in a Cup tie no less in 2015- also got only 2,800 there. Despite theoretical League Cup rules giving 15% of capacity!
• Hell Sheffield Wednesday other week, only got 2,600.
• Fairly sure Leeds only got 2,400 there the other year.

[TV Tom]

5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

• Newcastle in 16/17 were given 2,800 there which surely is lower than the max allocation.
• Birmingham- in a Cup tie no less in 2015- also got only 2,800 there. Despite theoretical League Cup rules giving 15% of capacity!
• Hell Sheffield Wednesday other week, only got 2,600.

Which is exactly my point, other teams get up to 2,800 (which has always been the maximum allocation for whatever reason at VP) while we are only ever given 1,800, why is this, does our club ask the question? All we are ever told is that there is an initial allocation of 1,800 and you won’t be getting any more!!!!

[Mr Popodopolous]

9 minutes ago, harrys said:

Which is exactly my point, other teams get up to 2,800 (which has always been the maximum allocation for whatever reason at VP) while we are only ever given 1,800, why is this, does our club ask the question? All we are ever told is that there is an initial allocation of 1,800 and you won’t be getting any more!!!!

Fairly sure I've read of higher capacity in away end for Villa Park than 2,800 or allocations anyway- up to .

Can only assume it's due to the long running issues with WMP,  they really dislike it- the court case or legal case against them from 2015 will have got up their nose too.

Oddly, we're not the only club with this issue- take a look at this Tweet from a year or 2 ago.

 

[TV Tom]

13 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Fairly sure I've read of higher capacity in away end for Villa Park than 2,800 or allocations anyway- up to .

Can only assume it's due to the long running issues with WMP,  they really dislike it- the court case or legal case against them from 2015 will have got up their nose too.

Oddly, we're not the only club with this issue- take a look at this Tweet from a year or 2 ago.

 

WMP didn’t stop WBA offering us 2,800 tickets last week or 5,500 for the cup game a couple of years ago, personally I think our club should be asking more questions on our behalf rather than us trying to guess the reason for the usual reduced allocation.