Mr Popodopolous Posted March 8 Author Report Share Posted March 8 (edited) More Special Pleading this time by Aston Villa. A journalist. A professional journalist FFS. https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/threat-aston-villas-future-progress-28780179 The standards across the board are possibly in decline? He's basically posting like a disgruntled fan. That's our job. He says there should be FFP regs but is angrier about the possibility it could hinder their progress than a £120m pre tax loss. Edited March 8 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 8 Author Report Share Posted March 8 I'm not saying his argument is entirely without merit, I would be interested to know if he has held a consistent position. Does he want new Financial Regs? Ones changed or tweaked just as Aston Villa more into a tougher cycle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 OMG! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 8 Author Report Share Posted March 8 Weird take by Dan Plumley, if promoted in breach they would get a fine only? Both Parties dock points these days, the PL can take on Investigations that begun in the PL so there us no reason it shouldn't be enforced and pushing for points. What would be amusing is if they had either simultaneously or concurrently, a Hearing with an EFL Panel and a Hearing with a PL Panel next year if it drags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 8 Author Report Share Posted March 8 Yet more.. The Double Jeopardy argument that we saw Everton won't apply here https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-13174631/Leicester-City-AVOID-double-jeopardy-spending-breach-EFL-rules-Foxes-expected-charged-Premier-League.html Effectively Leicester 2021-22 Upper number if they've breached to last year capped at £35m plus Allowables and same for their one last year. E.g. 2021-22 (just say) -£65m > -£35m 2022-23 (just say) -£40m > £35m 2023-24...Must not exceed £13m Those figures being after adjustments obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 8 Author Report Share Posted March 8 Or alternatively. After the usual Allowables. 2021-22 (just say) -£65m > £35m 2022-23 (just say) -£25m > £25m 2023-24..Must not exceed £21m Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 8 Author Report Share Posted March 8 Sorry should read 2023-24..Must not exceed £23m. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 9 Author Report Share Posted March 9 (edited) On 06/08/2023 at 12:49, Mr Popodopolous said: Parachute Payments and Barnes or not, I still there is potential for Leicester's losses to exceed allowances to this season. Remember loopholes such as Fixed Asset disposals and seemingly the Reading method don't count towards P&S anymore. Making some crude assumptions here yes: In 2022-23: Improvements *Wage bill £10m. Maybe amortisation A couple of million Profit on Disposal of Players £67-68m (Net of remaining Book Value and sell on clauses). Interest payments? Some debt was written off so maybe a bit Further costs/plausible Revenue Falls TV money £15-20m on account of no European football, maybe PL prize money went up a bit or down a bit. Fresh amortisation About £5.9m on account of new signings. Rodgers sacking Depends how done but could have added a lump sum or be amortised over a period of time. Wouldn't surprise me if a pre-tax loss of £35-40m was recorded last sesson even with the Maddison and Fofana disposals. On 14/08/2023 at 23:59, Mr Popodopolous said: Anyway, with the suggestions that the Allowable Losses maybe £25m given the Academy expenditure similar to Aston Villa, some small revisions. Leicester City Part 2 2021-22 Loss Before Tax £92,496,000 Inclusive of Player Trading Profit £9,206,000 Allowable, well let's say £25m Plus Covid losses as per accounts £1.36m P&S Loss Probably around £66,136,000 2022-23 Likely Wage improvement £10m Likely Profit on Disposal Improvement £67.554m Reduction in Cost of Covid Testing £0.33m Added costs/Loss of Revenue Amortisation attached to new Signings £5.545m Loss of European Revenue v increase in PL TV money or just loss if none £10-20m Sacking of Rodgers Surely that cost a few million?? Possible P&S Loss £5-20m @BristolFox You may find this interesting, from all the way back in August. Possibly some generous estimates there in the wake of Deloitte Money League, T.V. money for PL clubs released and the possible breach last season but here they are/were. I had very much discounted the prospect of a possible Leicester overspend to 2022-23..assumed the Maddison sale and moving Accounts to end of June to get it in would fix that. Time will tell as to the state of play there. Edited March 9 by Mr Popodopolous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob26 Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 On 07/03/2024 at 11:02, Mr Popodopolous said: Quick skimread of an article in The Athetic. This Hearing is either an Appeal of Verdict 1 or maybe it is the In-season stuff?? https://archive.is/2024.03.07-090157/https://theathletic.com/5321912/2024/03/07/leicester-ffp-profit-loss-efl/ should just do what the tax man would do to us if we had businesses and never submitted accounts, they would just over estimate how much profit you made and tell you to put pay it and then sort your return out after wards. they should estimate their accounts till the end of the season as in breach and then issue the points dock and say you can submit the docs by end of the month if you think we are wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 11 Author Report Share Posted March 11 2 minutes ago, Rob26 said: should just do what the tax man would do to us if we had businesses and never submitted accounts, they would just over estimate how much profit you made and tell you to put pay it and then sort your return out after wards. they should estimate their accounts till the end of the season as in breach and then issue the points dock and say you can submit the docs by end of the month if you think we are wrong I like that idea. Do the rules allow for it though? Could hand down a suspended deduction and give them until the end of the season. No info and it becomes live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob26 Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 probs not that is just how I would setup the rules tho for clubs that ignore the deadlines 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 11 Author Report Share Posted March 11 10 minutes ago, Rob26 said: probs not that is just how I would setup the rules tho for clubs that ignore the deadlines I had an idea which was that miss g the 1st March deadline by more than a few days should be a separate and strict liability offence. Similar to administration, missing that deadline is an automatic-12 but this would be separate from actual sanctions for failing P&S/FFP. Bit like Reading and their Business Plan breach, the suspended-6 didn't waive from the right or obligation to comply with FFP or remove potential punishment for exceeding limits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 11 Author Report Share Posted March 11 (edited) I will add- it is going a bit Midlandsish but say Wolves drop last year or Aston Villa drop under Gerrard.. How big would their respective holes be to the present season?? Prize money would've been £15-20m lower for Aston Villa but the Gerrard costs of departure also gone. They also talk of a Training Ground Sale on the Aston Villa forum but UEFA regs certainly wouldn't factor this in to offset losses, dunno about PL regs- EFL definitely don't. Edited March 11 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 11 Author Report Share Posted March 11 I know P&S Losses don't fully equate to Pre Tax but I do wonder how big their home would've been this season. Price money in this hypothetical scenario also down £10-15m? NSWE UK just looking again and running this hypothetical scenario. This isn't a dig at either but the size of the hole would have been intriguing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 11 Author Report Share Posted March 11 (edited) Some Leicester fans moaning that the EFL have a vendetta due to past events. Heard one or two saying that the EFL shouldn't have released it, including the prospect that they are in breach as it reduces value of players in the market. I have no sympathy as the club have put themselves in the position where they may have FFP challenges. Edited March 11 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 11 Author Report Share Posted March 11 New FFP rules ie the UEFA ones but still needs to be formally ratified, voted for etc. https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/13092774/premier-leagues-profit-and-sustainability-rules-to-be-replaced-as-early-as-this-summer Hmm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 12 Author Report Share Posted March 12 Interesting snippet here, no I haven't fact checked it- I hope they have. https://hammyend.com/index.php/2024/03/premier-league-set-to-scrap-psr/ Under the new proposed rules, Fulham would have failed it 25 out of 26 years!? Shows how pumped up under Al-Fayed (RIP) and Khan they have been. Their business model may need to change and drastically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 12 Author Report Share Posted March 12 They've made some astronomical losses over the years in general, certainly cumulatively..all of these are PL or Parachute and yes include Promotion Bonuses. 2017-18..-£45m (fourth and final year of Parachutes at that time, Promoted) 2018-19..-£20m (PL) 2019-20..-£48m (Year 1 of Parachute Payments, back up, some Covid losses, Promotion Bonuses). 2020-21..-£93m (PL- but also Covid). (Average..-£70.5m). 2021-22..-£57.5m (Year 1 of Parachute Payments, back up, Promotion Bonuses..possibly modest Covid losses too). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 12 Author Report Share Posted March 12 A possibly needed Profitable 2nd Quarter for Man United.. A lot of that CL revenue must be appearing in Q2? They went out in the Group stage and finished bottom so.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 13 Author Report Share Posted March 13 The UEFA limit also has an Upper Loss limit too..Plus the Allowables. €60m in 3 years, good financial health 3 years with equity. Used to be €39m...or are the PL going to look to adapt the Salary Cap bit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 13 Author Report Share Posted March 13 22 mins onwards, interesting Fulham and the new FFP rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 13 Author Report Share Posted March 13 Interesting, Man United are looking to take measures in part to avoid financial breaches. https://archive.is/2024.03.13-223944/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2024/03/13/sir-jim-ratcliffe-cost-cutting-manchester-united-interpath/ How did a club of that size and with such revenue streams enter the risk of failing a fairly permissive regime like £105m plus generous Allowables? Mad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonD Posted March 14 Report Share Posted March 14 Not relevant to FFP any more but Reading are apparently selling their training ground to Wycombe Wanderers. I can't be easy supporting Reading these days. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted March 14 Report Share Posted March 14 4 hours ago, SimonD said: Not relevant to FFP any more but Reading are apparently selling their training ground to Wycombe Wanderers. I can't be easy supporting Reading these days. If Wycombe can afford it I assume they paid well below the potential market value. It may also make it harder to sell the club, which no longer owns a valuable asset. No doubt they can now pay their bills in the short term but it doesn't help in the long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 14 Author Report Share Posted March 14 1 hour ago, chinapig said: If Wycombe can afford it I assume they paid well below the potential market value. It may also make it harder to sell the club, which no longer owns a valuable asset. No doubt they can now pay their bills in the short term but it doesn't help in the long term. £20m according to one report. Less than it's value for sure but at the same time, I'm shocked Wycombe can seemingly afford that. Wasn't aware Couhig himself so well off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 14 Author Report Share Posted March 14 (edited) Aston Villa fans who proclaim that CL qualification alone is a pathway to an easy £50-60m. It just isn't true albeit perhaps distribution increases next year. Edited March 14 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted March 14 Report Share Posted March 14 1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said: £20m according to one report. Less than it's value for sure but at the same time, I'm shocked Wycombe can seemingly afford that. Wasn't aware Couhig himself so well off. A Georgian billionaire living in Kazakhstan is the source of the money according to Ben Fisher: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/mar/14/reading-owner-dai-yongge-training-ground-sale-wycombe As expected potential buyers for Reading have withdrawn because the training ground is not part of the deal. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonD Posted March 14 Report Share Posted March 14 5 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Aston Villa fans who proclaim that CL qualification alone is a pathway to an easy £50-60m. It just isn't true albeit perhaps distribution increases next year. There must be a strong possibility that some Villa fans are not aware of UEFA's convoluted way of allocating payments from their competitions and simply believe that it is performance based. It presumably is in the public domain somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 14 Author Report Share Posted March 14 (edited) 6 minutes ago, SimonD said: There must be a strong possibility that some Villa fans are not aware of UEFA's convoluted way of allocating payments from their competitions and simply believe that it is performance based. It presumably is in the public domain somewhere. I'd say so yeah. The coefficent is a factor, so too the TV Pool. All clubs get a starting fee then a fixed fee based on Group Stage wins and draws, however it won't just be Aston Villa fans tbh reckon Newcastle fans probably just took the headline numbers as a given this season. Small matter too if they do qualify, some may forget that it isn t gross but they gained x from European Conference League this year and y from CL..net improvement of course. Edited March 14 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 14 Author Report Share Posted March 14 (edited) It will be interesting too, to see Manchester United if they still made a loss with £29m in Transfer Profit and presumably all the CL cash into the 1st half. Because going out in the Group Stage..surely no more European Revenue between January and June. Edited March 14 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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