Sandhurst Red Posted March 14 Report Share Posted March 14 (edited) It's getting even worse for Reading - even more than Wycombe buying their training ground today. I know a few folk connected to the club and they had auditors there today, looking for any assets. They are even considering dismantling part of the ground and selling off seats and rails as assets. That's how bad it has got. Many locally think they will not be around in 3 weeks time. The inevitable is going to happen. And to think Dai Young is worth an apparent £17 Billion.... this is just spiteful to the EFL, who I must add should be held accountable for this and allowing him the opportunity to even do it. The bloke was rejected once with Hull and then swindled his way into Reading. Reading are an awful club in may respects, with an awful matchday experience, and some of the most plastic fans you could find - they have simply vanished as a fanbase since they left the Prem. That said, their most loyal fans don't deserve this. It outline so much of what is wrong with modern football. Not defending some of what has, and is happening at BS3, but those that crucify the Lansdown's would do well to see what happens when you don't have that support and then sell to the wrong person. Edited March 14 by Sandhurst Red Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonD Posted March 14 Report Share Posted March 14 16 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: I'd say so yeah. The coefficent is a factor, so too the TV Pool. All clubs get a starting fee then a fixed fee based on Group Stage wins and draws, however it won't just be Aston Villa fans tbh reckon Newcastle fans probably just took the headline numbers as a given this season. Small matter too if they do qualify, some may forget that it isn t gross but they gained x from European Conference League this year and y from CL..net improvement of course. This may have it covered Prize money & Revenue distribution system. Live! | Football-coefficient.eu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 14 Author Report Share Posted March 14 That is an interesting insight and sad to hear @Sandhurst Red Definitely feel for their genuine fans..how much culpability the EFL have Idk. Okay the Test was a joke until recently but at that time am interested as to what grounds they could've rejected him under. Did he have negative history ala Steve Dale? I don't know about £17bn, seem different figures but certainly worth North of £1bn. There was also talk that he was struggling with getting cash out of China. Surely if it goes belly up it is Administration rather than Insolvency and that buys time. I should add my sympathy is tempered a bit by the following. He was a gambler to say the least and Reading and their Financial management was ridiculous. No sublime, just ridiculous. 2017-18..Sold stadium to Renhe Sports Management Limited. Think wage bill 100% or more of turnover. Sale and leaseback. 2018-19.. Renhe Sports Management sell: *Stadium (onto a purely external company). Sale and leaseback. *Training Ground. Think it was the old Training Ground. *Land around the Stadium. *Sone Aluko £3m Loan Fee to a Chinese club also owned by Yongge. Wages were 180% of Turnover maybe more, can't recall exactly hut the transactions masked things. *2019-20, nothing else to sell. Soft Embargo or monitoring from January 2020. They lost £35-45m pre tax? Wage bill between 150-200% of Turnover?? 2020-21...Huge losses again as they clearly gambled plus some Covid stuff for both of these. Sure they were under a Soft Embargo at least, Kia Joorabchian friend of Yongge and friend of Marina Granovskaia was moaning on Talksport about the financial rules 2021-22..Much like Derby they ran aground. FFP failed, full Embargo and Business Plan with suspended further penalties. Didn't stop them from using connections to sign Rahman and Drinkwater on loan for free. 2022-23...Costs coming down as in part EFL imposed. Docked another 6, failed to get transaction over the line in time, Relegated. Loaned in Rahman and in Janaury Casadei for free probably, or very cheap. Chelsea connection. The failed loophole in 2022-23 was shares in some Property owned hy a company owned by the club iirc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 14 Author Report Share Posted March 14 (edited) Will check some of the underlying losses and Wage Bills a bit later. What puzzles me still a bit about the Derby administration though is now they got away with not producing any Accounts publicly for 4 years. Plus retained a Cat 1 Academy and impressive Training Ground while in administration. You look at Bolton, Reading, Wigan.. Do their Running Costs truly reflect a club of their size? Maybe. They appear to have lost about £40m since 2017-18 but retained a Cat 1. Edited March 14 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 14 Author Report Share Posted March 14 (edited) Is fairly obvious that Mel Morris ran shall we say an extravagant ship there before it ran aground and was no longer seaworthy. Minimum of 55% reduction, you could say the ship is buoyant and the old costs were sunk. Edited March 14 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 14 Author Report Share Posted March 14 (edited) I wonder if any of their other costs disappeared from 2018-19 to 2021-22 when no Accounts appeared..or just Mel Morris running it as he did. Their Annual Rent of £800-900k on an £81.1m transaction is quite out of keeping with the rest of the Sale and Leasebacks. The original valuation in 2018 recommended £4m per year or thereabouts. Edited March 14 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 14 Author Report Share Posted March 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 14 Author Report Share Posted March 14 (edited) Seems a bit like cake and eat it, set against the Independent Valuer who recommended A) £4m Or B) £1.1m, with a restrictions on Days usage. Stadia DCFC and Club DCFC provided revenue but ran at losses..are Derby providing the costs legitimately associated with a strong Commercial Revenue? Plus Paragraph 72. Edited March 14 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 14 Author Report Share Posted March 14 Back go the here and now, Reading...some huge underlying losses and or wage bills incoming. 2017-18 to 2018-19. Parachute Payments ended after 2016-17, a year in which they lost the Play-off Final.. The Reading and Renhe Accounts and transactions to keep the show on the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted March 14 Report Share Posted March 14 Feel for Reading, I know someone who works there, apparently they got rid of all the chefs as a cost cutting measure, lots of microwave meals. I've been lucky to go to Bearwood and its an incredible facility, the mocking Charlie Savage got for saying it was as good as Man Utd's training ground, well he's not far off, genuinely could be a PL training ground. I don't really get the Wycombe hate, if they'd said no (heard somewhere they were approached over buying it) then I imagine it probably would have been sold to property developers or something and a waste of a great facility. Bolton sold their training ground to Wigan who sold it to Preston and there wasn't really a fuss. Also, supposedly some serious money behind Wycombe now, new owner not announced yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 14 Author Report Share Posted March 14 Reading and Renhe Sports Management- 2017-18 Grant received is a weird one too. Maybe linked to the Ground but underlying Income to Revenue nor far off 200%?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 14 Author Report Share Posted March 14 (edited) 2018-19, 2019-20 and 2020-21. Last 2 impacted by Covid-19. A problem is that the fans I doubt were raising the alarm when they were clearly pushing FFP and gambling with their future sustainability. You can probably find Tweets lauding it and their love of loopholes albeit they had nothing, nothing on not exactly a small minority of Derby fans in peak Mel era. Edited March 14 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 14 Author Report Share Posted March 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 14 Author Report Share Posted March 14 (edited) Oh, how they all laughed..until about early to mid 2021. https://twitter.com/search?src=typed_query&q=Dai Yongge until%3A2021-02-05 since%3A2018-08-01 Got up to some time in 2020 scrolling. Nothing like the Derby stuff but ha going great it was. Edited March 14 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 14 Author Report Share Posted March 14 Albeit this one went against the grain, quite prescient now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 15 Author Report Share Posted March 15 While since I've seen this site. Good article. https://www.footballlaw.co.uk/articles/efl-leicester-ffp-cpsr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22A Posted March 15 Report Share Posted March 15 1' 05" in for City. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 15 Author Report Share Posted March 15 Not sure these are right at all. Salary Sport is suspect. Some of these maybe useful guesses or extrapolation from FM? Weimann given he renewed as we were entering an austerity period feels unlikely. Wells given he took a decent cut to stay sounds more feasible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted March 15 Report Share Posted March 15 54 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Not sure these are right at all. Salary Sport is suspect. Some of these maybe useful guesses or extrapolation from FM? Weimann given he renewed as we were entering an austerity period feels unlikely. Wells given he took a decent cut to stay sounds more feasible. I’d say salary sport are better than most, mainly because they are more “up to date” guesstimates. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 15 Author Report Share Posted March 15 One other matter I had forgotten about. In the context of Wycombe maybe buying Readings Training Ground..Euxton. 2015-16, Bolton in dire straits sell to Wigan. Not sure where they trained thereafter... ...2019-20 or summer 2020, Wigan in dire straits sell to Preston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 15 Author Report Share Posted March 15 Still stand by my view, although they were amply punished Derby were in some ways quite fortunate to retain a Cat 1 Academy and indeed an impressive Training Ground when approaching financial disaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markthehorn Posted March 15 Report Share Posted March 15 Worrying times for Blackburn on and off the pitch . https://www.thebusinessdesk.com/northwest/news/2130276-judge-in-india-delays-final-blackburn-rovers-funding-hearing-until-after-start-of-next-season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derby Boy Posted March 15 Report Share Posted March 15 7 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Still stand by my view, although they were amply punished Derby were in some ways quite fortunate to retain a Cat 1 Academy and indeed an impressive Training Ground when approaching financial disaster. Thr training ground is on land leased from Loco Park Estate so it couldn't go to developers, if we owned it outright and it could have been developed it would have been gone. I guess the administrators figured they could get a better deal for the creditors with the Cat 1 intact. However we lost all of our best players in the becoming pro age range and a couple of years below so it's set us back years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 15 Author Report Share Posted March 15 27 minutes ago, Derby Boy said: Thr training ground is on land leased from Loco Park Estate so it couldn't go to developers, if we owned it outright and it could have been developed it would have been gone. I guess the administrators figured they could get a better deal for the creditors with the Cat 1 intact. However we lost all of our best players in the becoming pro age range and a couple of years below so it's set us back years. Thanks, that does make sense tbh. Especially the bit about it being safeguarded. Yeah Cat 1 is a definite pull factor for buyers, in hindsight did Quantuma do okay or did they luck out greatly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob26 Posted March 16 Report Share Posted March 16 On 15/03/2024 at 13:55, Davefevs said: I’d say salary sport are better than most, mainly because they are more “up to date” guesstimates. but their still guess for the most part , when you look at ones for your own team you can often spot ones that are well wrong 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derby Boy Posted March 16 Report Share Posted March 16 On 15/03/2024 at 23:17, Mr Popodopolous said: in hindsight did Quantuma do okay or did they luck out greatly? It's so diifcult to be sure from the outside but their naming of Kirchner as a preferred bidder must be a black mark. Athough he seems to have some powers of persuasion. https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/ex-preston-north-end-and-derby-county-bidder-found-guilty-of-money-laundering-and-wire-fraud/ar-BB1hieVE 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 18 Author Report Share Posted March 18 (edited) Nottingham Forest docked 4 points. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/mar/18/nottingham-forest-docked-four-points-premier-league-financial-rules-breach-profitability-and-sustainability Written Reasons will be interesting to see. Edited March 18 by Mr Popodopolous 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted March 18 Report Share Posted March 18 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 18 Author Report Share Posted March 18 Percy says they're considering an Appeal. 4 points seems light given the turning down of bids for Brennan Johnson but until the Written Reasons are out and the table is updated it is hard to say really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markthehorn Posted March 18 Report Share Posted March 18 11 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Percy says they're considering an Appeal. 4 points seems light given the turning down of bids for Brennan Johnson but until the Written Reasons are out and the table is updated it is hard to say really. Maybe as they admitted their guilt it’s less than Everton’s? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.