Derby County

[ExiledAjax]

55 minutes ago, Hxj said:

That's an interesting word choice - not 'with the interested parties.'

Does this mean that someone hasn't actually confirmed interest yet?

I have no idea.

My experience has taught me that every buyer is "prospective" or "potential". Only when the docs are signed and the money moved is anyone actually "buyer".

I suspect there are a couple in discussions. Maybe someone has negotiated an exclusivity period, maybe not. Insolvency sales tend to see less due diligence done as the attitude is "you know this companiy's crap, you're getting it for cheap, so don't ask questions".

17 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

And the prospective buyers can now offer to buy at a Lg1 price!

Absolutely. And the trick now is that it is certain that it's a league 1 club. Before this there was a slim chance, that the administrators could talk up, of survival. Now, needing 50+ points from 29 games...its realistically impossible. So that gives them the certainty that investors crave.

[ExiledAjax]

1 hour ago, Yellow&Blue&Red said:

Whilst points deductions are never ideal...

Loved that line as well

[LondonBristolian]

In fairness, it is now really hard to accuse the football league of being too lenient with Derby...

[supercidered]

5 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

In fairness, it is now really hard to accuse the football league of being too lenient with Derby...

Glad they have been rogered senseless but just about the right punishment. However, the time taken means that Wycombe got f@cked over in the process of everything taking so long. With it being a legal process then I guess the time taken was inevitable and nothing can be done for Wycombe. Shame.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Well done Rick Parry. Well done the EFL.

Cleaning the EFL stables from arrival tbh, September 2019 in the case of Parry and transparency in terms of squad and budgetary allowances for this season, presumably this is remaiming headroom.

Not yet read the Agreed Decision but based on the snippets @Davefevs it should make for interesting reading.

So much for EFL on strings!! Bittersweet moment for Couhig especially.

Edited November 16, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[ExiledAjax]

10 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

In fairness, it is now really hard to accuse the football league of being too lenient with 

It's a shame that @havanatopia is no longer here to see his thread title made mockery. 

[LondonBristolian]

1 minute ago, ExiledAjax said:

It's a shame that @havanatopia is no longer here to see his thread title made mockery. 

I'm certainly not mocking the thread title. The EFL sat in their hands for years whilst everyone knew Derby were spending recklessly. I'm glad this action has finally been taken but the thread title certainly made sense at the time and, as @supercidered says above, it's a real shame this came too late for Wycombe. And too late for the man actually responsible for the mess Derby are in to still be at the helm...

[WarksRobin]

1 hour ago, Hxj said:

That's an interesting word choice - not 'with the interested parties.'

Does this mean that someone hasn't actually confirmed interest yet?

Standard wording. Unless and until someone signs a release agreement to get access to the company data, there are no interested parties.

[ExiledAjax]

On 24/05/2021 at 23:09, havanatopia said:

Are the Football League hoping this will quietly disappear?

Will Wycombe have to call the legal team in?

Two weeks after the season has ended and the Pride Park club, via its online newspaper mouthpiece, is already arrogantly discussing the seasons new fixtures in the Championship.

Do they know more than the rest of us? have they paid someone off handsomely to ensure the club remain much more attractive to a buyer?

@LondonBristolian. Probably worth quoting the OP here. Havanatopia, as the rest of us, would presumably love to see that the EFL have not bungled this one (at least not entirely, my thoughts go to Wycombe as well). Derby have, realistically, been handed the relegation that they deserve. The EFL have made a mockery of the thread title...and it's fantastic that they've done so.

[chinapig]

25 minutes ago, supercidered said:

Glad they have been rogered senseless but just about the right punishment. However, the time taken means that Wycombe got f@cked over in the process of everything taking so long. With it being a legal process then I guess the time taken was inevitable and nothing can be done for Wycombe. Shame.

I would describe it as quasi-legal as the courts are explicitly excluded. Consequently it should not take 2 years to conclude. The EFL needs to find ways to speed the process up.

Justice delayed is justice denied and all that.

[Davefevs]

Re Wycombe, the fact that the EFL started this season with interchangeable fixtures highlights that they were hoping for a swift decision.  Is either party at fault for it taking til November to conclude?  Guess it was definitely in Detby’s interest to delay the decision to ensure they remained in Champ this season beyond the initial point where fixtures had to be played..

Do Wycombe still have a case?  I don’t know the legal standpoint, but they’ve lost out big-time, in terms of revenue and players.

[GrahamC]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Re Wycombe, the fact that the EFL started this season with interchangeable fixtures highlights that they were hoping for a swift decision.  Is either party at fault for it taking til November to conclude?  Guess it was definitely in Detby’s interest to delay the decision to ensure they remained in Champ this season beyond the initial point where fixtures had to be played..

Do Wycombe still have a case?  I don’t know the legal standpoint, but they’ve lost out big-time, in terms of revenue and players.

Rumour doing the rounds that both them & Boro are considering legal action, though not sure of the latter’s angle here, but Steve Gibson has been consistent (& right) in calling out FFP cheats like Bournemouth, QPR, Wednesday, Reading & Derby.

[Banjo Red]

1 hour ago, Loco Rojo said:

I wonder if they have any legal case to pursue? They must have lost earnings by dropping to L1 even if they do come straight back up.

You would think so the system is very suspect.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

@BigTone- any chance of a condensed version please?

[ExiledAjax]

11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Re Wycombe, the fact that the EFL started this season with interchangeable fixtures highlights that they were hoping for a swift decision.  Is either party at fault for it taking til November to conclude?  Guess it was definitely in Detby’s interest to delay the decision to ensure they remained in Champ this season beyond the initial point where fixtures had to be played..

Do Wycombe still have a case?  I don’t know the legal standpoint, but they’ve lost out big-time, in terms of revenue and players.

Certainly there will be a QC out there who will take Wycombe's case. 

Who exactly they should sue I couldn't be sure. Is it Derby for initially cheating, or is it the EFL for delaying things. 

With Derby in the financial situation they are in I would suggest that the sensible option is to go at the EFL. IIRC Wyconbe want about £6m. I can't see the EFL paying that but maybe they would give Wycombe something.

Thinking a little outside the box but could there be scope for giving Wycombe a promotion, or if they get promoted this season then granting them immunity from relegation next season? I've not read the regs in detail, but presumably if enough clubs agreed to it then that could happen. 

[BigTone]

3 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

@BigTone- any chance of a condensed version please?

Condensed Version 

Derby are doomed

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

Just now, BigTone said:

Condensed Version 

Derby are doomed

Cheers- thought so but just needed your confirmation.

[Davefevs]

Any idea whether they might be in further breach for the latest FFP cycle / period too.  Don’t forget w/o Mel they are down to only £15m losses in the cycle?  £39m is only if backed by owner!

@Hxjinteresting that club still need to produce some accounts even if not at CH (26.2.ii)

[Bristol Oil Services]

3 hours ago, JamesBCFC said:

Could Derby end this season with not just the lowest ever Premier League points tally, but Championship one too?

 

3 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

Blackpool hold the record with 26, I think they will get more than 27 points from their remaining games.

Rotherham, 23 points in 2016/17. Statistically the poorest second tier team in England since 1945. 

[ExiledAjax]

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Any idea whether they might be in further breach for the latest FFP cycle / period too.  Don’t forget w/o Mel they are down to only £15m losses in the cycle?  £39m is only if backed by owner!

@Hxjinteresting that club still need to produce some accounts even if not at CH (26.2.ii)

Is this another reason why a sale, and therefore a settlement with the EFL, are so "critical" to the Club's future? They need a new owner asap so that they can get back to that £39m threshold. Do I have that correct? Is that how that would work?

[Davefevs]

Just now, ExiledAjax said:

Is this another reason why a sale, and therefore a settlement with the EFL, are so "critical" to the Club's future? They need a new owner asap so that they can get back to that £39m threshold. Do I have that correct? Is that how that would work?

I can only assume so.

http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/financial-fair-play-explained.php

Has Mel put any equity in for some of those years?  Maybe it might be somewhere between £15-39m???  

[Mr Popodopolous]

Looked over it, seems a pretty fair settlement to me.

The inclusion of the Revaluation Reserve is now not permissible, certainly for P&S purposes. 

What really pleases me is that the EFL did not crumble in the face of bluster and lawyers...or similar.

Look at the following statements...admittedly the first was specifically about Pride Park and Pride Park only, which as we know was upheld/not appealed.

https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2019/09/club-statement-5

That suggested that it was long after the event and could no longer affect Derby County.

https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2020/01/club-statement-17th-january-2020

Again denied that much could be done. Threw around terms like unlawful etc.

Then the whole delaying and procrastinating although that cut both ways- an article in mid May suggested procedural defences to stall a deduction or a final decision and it wouldn't surprise me if it had some truth...dunno where specifically in the article but I do remember reading it in May.

Then of course, the final attempt at a hail mary- the attempt to throw in the additional Profit- the amount was not stated but it was claimed to be substantial (we now know it to be £30.3m that remained in the Revaluation Reserve at time of disposal).

https://www.efl.com/contentassets/873a8914e09740d3b3a8848131ea10b8/210630---efl-v-derby-county---decision-on-sanction-final.pdf

They'll survive off the pitch, never much doubt. Hope they do too.

Oh yeah also the whole not crumbling to the appeal by the administrators- there was talk that maybe they would try to get a deal that encompasses both to reduce the total deduction.

Edited November 16, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[chinapig]

43 minutes ago, BigTone said:

Condensed Version 

Derby are doomed

Expanded Condensed Version

Wayne Rooney's Derby County™ are doomed.

[Mr Popodopolous]

I remember we all discussed this in summer 2019 on the FFP thread- the main one after the mere stadium sale issue- which ironically Derby are in the clear on.

How different the picture looks now eh- @Coppello I recall made some pertinent points about amortisation and FRS 102?

[Mr Popodopolous]

I also remember the following- honourable mentions...

1. Matt Hughes- -21. Honourable mention to him albeit the points deduction would be composed quite differently! He said it would be -21 when they were charged.
2. Matt Lawton...said in March 2019 that Aston Villa, Derby and Sheffield Wednesday could be in big trouble P&S wise- 2 out of 3 isn't bad and it might have been a perfect 3 had Aston Villa stayed down! Wonder if future charges on return, hope so...
3. Kieran Maguire- the man who emailed the EFL in June 2018, regarding concerns about amortisation. He initially got told to go away but vindication!

Oh and Rick Parry entering EFL HQ this afternoon.  Although it's actually maybe a better likeness for Trevor Birch.

Edited November 16, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[BigTone]

16 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Expanded Condensed Version

Wayne Rooney's Derby County™ are doomed.

Sorry, how remiss of me

[supercidered]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

Certainly there will be a QC out there who will take Wycombe's case. 

Who exactly they should sue I couldn't be sure. Is it Derby for initially cheating, or is it the EFL for delaying things. 

With Derby in the financial situation they are in I would suggest that the sensible option is to go at the EFL. IIRC Wyconbe want about £6m. I can't see the EFL paying that but maybe they would give Wycombe something.

Thinking a little outside the box but could there be scope for giving Wycombe a promotion, or if they get promoted this season then granting them immunity from relegation next season? I've not read the regs in detail, but presumably if enough clubs agreed to it then that could happen. 

I can't see them going after Derby but possibly EFL. If they do go after either, I can't see them getting any justice for their club.

I also can't see any of the last paragraph happening either. 

Life isn't fair, football isn't fair. Unfortunately for Wycombe whilst they have been royally shafted with this. I fear they will just have to suck this up and forever despise Derby County.

[SecretSam]

Looks like there are now only two relegation places left:

Derby get further points deduction

45 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Expanded Condensed Version

Wayne Rooney's Derby County™ are doomed.

If only I had a microscope, I could find my tiny, tiny violin and play it for them

[ExiledAjax]

10 minutes ago, supercidered said:

I can't see them going after Derby but possibly EFL. If they do go after either, I can't see them getting any justice for their club.

I also can't see any of the last paragraph happening either. 

Life isn't fair, football isn't fair. Unfortunately for Wycombe whilst they have been royally shafted with this. I fear they will just have to suck this up and forever despise Derby County.

I believe that Wycombe have already sent an 'invoice' or 'claim' to Derby/Derby's administrators requesting £6m as a creditor. Personally I see that as them simply staking their claim, I suspect they have zero expectation of that being paid, but asking for it shows that they think they deserve it. If they really think they can get something then I would think the real claim will got against the EFL, through proper litigation in the courts. I see their chance of success as minimal at best. 

Personally I would not mind Wycombe getting immunity from relegation following their next promotion to the Championship. Truth is they shouldn't have been relegated last season, and so some small token could be extended. Maybe if not full immunity then they could be 'given' Derby's deducted points? Pie in the sky I know as the other clubs would never agree to it, but it's an idea.

[Clevedon Red]

Title of thread needs changing perhaps?