The Office (UK): Ipswich Town edition

[Davefevs]

@Southend Blue

I just got to the bit about net zero.  I think he’s being disingenuous in many respects.  I’m guessing that when he talks about last year, this year and next year and ins and outs he’s talking about those players contracts, their apportionment (amortisation) of those fees each year versus the money brought in.  Well, that’s easy.  The fees received are put into the accounts in one go, the fees paid out over the contract length.  So he’s been able to make it sound more positive than it actually is.

In his last year, this year, next year, we haven’t seen this years accounts, let alone next years, so nobody is gonna be able to doubt his claims either.

In terms of this years / seasons player trading, you’ve paid out far more than you’ve received, considerably widening the gap (again) between fees paid vs fees received from last year.

And what you’ll see as you start to sell (trade) those players purchased last year is reduced transfer profit because they’ll have an amortised value to take off the fee received.

And he’s not talking about wages either.  Last years was £3m higher than pre-Gamechanger.  This year’s will be even more, not the scale of big earners of summer 2021 leaving, left in summer 2022.  Revenues up, admittedly, but I foresee a bigger loss again this season, as those jaws of income versus costs widen.

I do agree with him that the squad has improved, albeit a huge amount of players in and out, as it the volume of support, incredible really.  Assuming you get promoted, I do wonder how you’ll move on players not required for Champ, on good contracts (huge contracts for Lg1).  Other Lg1 clubs won’t be able to afford to pick up the tab…expect to see impairments in the accounts.  A number of players signed last season haven’t featured and have gone out on loan.  You can be sure you aren’t recouping 100% of their wage costs in all cases / any cases.  Let alone the ones you paid fees for like Harper, who is costing you his yearly amortisation too.

You may well ride a nice wave on the pitch, but keep an eye out for the finances.  It is following a remarkably similar path to here.  And you haven’t got to the Champ yet, where although income will increase so will costs, and players won’t see Ipswich as first pick like they do in Lg1.

Big 8 games coming up.  Peterborough (a) followed by Barnsley (a) in games 43 and 44 look tasty.

[cidercity1987]

7 game winning streak and the lad goes on a fans forum....

Classic Ashton

 

[WarksRobin]

7 hours ago, Fuber said:

In other words, we now have confirmation the player trading strategy came from Ashton.

At least he got it right with Webster for us, but that was about it. It's not sustainable, as we found out the hard way.

It was always the correct strategy, but it isn’t as scaleable as MA seemed to believe. We’re still pursuing the same route but without buying copious numbers of players we cannot develop.

[1960maaan]

9 hours ago, Davefevs said:

That’s one way to spin it, and glaze over the big increase in “operating expenses”….wages up £3m, other costs up £6m, that led to losses doubling.

It's the used car salesman in him.

Customer : What's the engine like

M.A. :  Look at the paintwork, that upholstery looks brand new , it has new tyres and comes with a 3 minute Warranty.

Customer : 3 minutes ?

M.A. : Did I mention the upholstery ?

Bullshitter, bullshitting until he gets found out.

[1960maaan]

17 minutes ago, WarksRobin said:

It was always the correct strategy, but it isn’t as scaleable as MA seemed to believe. We’re still pursuing the same route but without buying copious numbers of players we cannot develop.

IMO , I don't think it is a correct strategy, specially the way we were doing it , at least not buying purely to sell.
We were paying good money, sometimes too good, for players to try and make a profit. They weren't necessarily brought in with the team in mind.  It can work, almost by accident like Brentford have it shown. They buy players to fit into their team and strategy . They then develop naturally and increase in value and are sold at great profit. We bought anyone and everyone , regardless of team shape or style and hoped to make a profit. 
Currently, a small fairly balanced squad with incoming players chosen to fill positions. The likes of Atkinson, Tanner and Mehmetti will develop and improve and value will rise. It has always got to be about the team. I think we are in a far better place now than with Ashton . I would say Ashton & Johnson, but you have to wonder ho much say Lee had in the recruitment.
 

 

[Ipswich_Blue]

6 hours ago, cidercity1987 said:

7 game winning streak and the lad goes on a fans forum....

Classic Ashton

 

If you done any research you’d know that he’s been doing them every couple of months for the past 1 and a bit seasons

[Ipswich_Blue]

20 hours ago, O'Garlandinho said:

I’m glad I’m not an Arizona public worker, hoping to retire with a decent/any pension!

https://www.psprs.com/article/study-psprs-asset-growth-rate-again-tops-large-u-s--pension-funds Except it’s the highest growing pension fund in the US & investment makes up a minuscule amount of the total so I think we’ll be fine

[cidercity1987]

1 hour ago, Ipswich_Blue said:

If you done any research you’d know that he’s been doing them every couple of months for the past 1 and a bit seasons

Give me the previous three results leading up to the announcement of a forum.....

[Davefevs]

Welcome @Ipswich_Blue.

Out of interest, how do you view last season’s accounts, and what do you project this seasons will look like?

[sh1t_ref_again]

1 hour ago, Ipswich_Blue said:

If you done any research you’d know that he’s been doing them every couple of months for the past 1 and a bit seasons

Your are obviously very happy with the spending as you are having a good run of results, unfortunately as we have found to our cost and by this summer transfer window will have hopefully undone the damage created by Ashtons spending. Unless you get very lucky and 1 or several of the players brought in go for mega bucks and cover the rising costs, you will fall foul of FFP particularly if you do not get promoted and even if you do may just delay the impact for a season or 2. We were left with loads of players that we paid good transfers for, that we could not sell due to there wages and ended up just terminating contracts or letting them expiry so they could leave on a free, whilst also unable to spend any money. This at a club who are very well backed and financed by Steve Lansdown, 1 of the richest guys in the country, MA shafted us and then ran to start again, although none of us was upset to see him and his ego leave.

[Swede]

Its interesting to note that when there's any positive spin to be had, swiss tony's right there self professing and bullshitting to the masses.

It will be also be interesting to see if he's that keen to make public statements when things aren't so rosy, then it will be the manager's job.

The similarity is frightening.

With the terrific fan base and support Ipswich enjoy there is a lot for the reptile to hide behind so it could be a long time before the cuckoo's looking for the next nest to land in. 

 

[Swede]

If I was a visiting Ipswich fan [welcome, by the way] the one question I would be asking myself is why, after this length of time, is there still interest shown on another club's forum regarding swiss tony.

[Ipswich_Blue]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Welcome @Ipswich_Blue.

Out of interest, how do you view last season’s accounts, and what do you project this seasons will look like?

Thank you,

Of course a 12.8m loss isn’t great, we spent too much money on players in that summer & this is partly because we gave Paul Cook, aka demolition man, way too much power with transfers.

Although we didn’t even have an established recruitment team so it is kind of understandable that you’ll have players sold/loaned soon after being bought.

A lot of the money posted in that loss I’m sure is on infrastructure & moving the club forwards into the modern era. I don’t think enough is said of how much of a mess Ipswich were before the new owners & Ashton

Regarding this seasons accounts, again, I’m expecting a big loss. Huge money is being put into the infrastructure of the club as well as a decent wedge on transfers, albeit a lot more successful this time round with a proper process behind the scenes.

We’ve invested in younger players from Premier League academies at a high fee for League One, this might raise question marks but FFP in League is entirely related to wages. I personally think spending higher fees now on these high potential players in a league that doesn’t punish losses at the end of the season is a superb plan that, if we are promoted, will bare the fruits.

I fully believe if we are promoted this season we are in a great position to continue this momentum & comfortably stay up next season.

We have a new pitch coming in this summer which will cost us millions of pounds, numerous training pitches have been built, we have a new screen which required bulldozing of a corner of Portman Road.

Onto Ashton’s comment about the fees of players being a net zero over the past 2 years and next season - that I agree with you is nonsense & do understand why City fans are seeing reflections of the past.

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Ipswich_Blue said:

We’ve invested in younger players from Premier League academies at a high fee for League One, this might raise question marks but FFP in League is entirely related to wages. I personally think spending higher fees now on these high potential players in a league that doesn’t punish losses at the end of the season is a superb plan that, if we are promoted, will bare the fruits

Ta for the reply.

My only concern with the approach above is when (if?) you get promoted this season, you’ll fall under Championship P&S, and the cycle ending 23/24, will include the losses (from Lg1) in 21/22 and 22/23.  In effect, passing SCMP in prior years becomes irrelevant.  You will however be ok that first year up, but beyond that much will depend then on how much you lose going forward.  You can quickly become hamstrung.  Which is what we found, even though we had a circa £11m profit in one year.

The big test will be when this time next year you look back at the accounts and see what that £28.938m Operating Expenses has grown to….and whether that is growing faster than revenue.

[O'Garlandinho]

On 06/04/2023 at 11:51, Ipswich_Blue said:

https://www.psprs.com/article/study-psprs-asset-growth-rate-again-tops-large-u-s--pension-funds Except it’s the highest growing pension fund in the US & investment makes up a minuscule amount of the total so I think we’ll be fine

Why would anybody want a single penny of their pension fund invested into a random sports team, thousands of miles away, which is guaranteed to lose a lot of money??

[luke_bristol]

47 minutes ago, O'Garlandinho said:

Why would anybody want a single penny of their pension fund invested into a random sports team, thousands of miles away, which is guaranteed to lose a lot of money??

That’s what I can’t understand. It’s not even high risk/high reward, and even if it’s a matter of 1 or 2%, on the face of it it seems bonkers. Still, top of the league will please the American firemen

[Midlands Robin]

A meme popped up in my Facebook timeline history to remind me that the departure of Swiss Tony was announced exactly two years ago today. 

https://fb.watch/jTT5Yh77Ft/

[Rob k]

Can’t stand them one bit - but fair play to their fans, 5500 to Barnsley on a Tuesday night is impressive 

[Silvio Dante]

Be a lot of sisters pregnant tonight.

[Loosey Boy]

Probably end up getting them on the opening day of next season!

[milo1111]

Swiss Tony’s preferred agents will be swelling their coffers this summer as he signs another 15 players for the coming season. Obviously they will need a new squad fit for the championship 

[Midlands Robin]

He employs a manager with very little previous experience and certainly never been a manager and he spends his owners money like water on dozens of players. A familiar story but the big difference this time is that it looks like he's going to get Town promoted. How long will it be before he has to do a runner before they run out of cash?

 

Edited April 25, 2023 by Midlands Robin

[Loosey Boy]

13 minutes ago, Midlands Robin said:

He employs a manager with very little previous experience and certainly never been a manager and he spends his owners money like water on dozens of players. A familiar story but the big difference this time is that it looks like he's going to get Town promoted. How long will it be before he has to do a runner before they run out of cash?

 

Be interesting to see/know how much they will get away with spending before potentially falling foul of FFP…..paid some big money on players from a salary perspective you’d imagine……

[Southend Blue]

Ashton's been part of a new set-up that at pitch level at least, has met with near total success.       I was wary at first when he came on board, read a number of things that made you question the appointment but seriously he's been part of a difference that you can't quite allow enough superlatives.   

Not just him but McKenna, the influx of the new players, getting rid of the poisonous Marcus Evans and the Yank takeover ownership - it's all come to eventual fruition.     We're having the best season since I'd estimate  2004 - 05, and back then Joe Royle was manager.      In the time in between it's been so uneventful and disappointing you'd have to be a true Town fan to comprehend the full measure of it.

Whatever you think  of us, think of Mark Ashton, take a moment to understand it's been near 20 years of epic failure.    We're on the verge of a first league promotion since 2000.       It's been a long hard hike and wait to finally celebrate something.   

I think most fans of wherever you find them or allegiance would allow us this one time to enjoy something.     Norwich City reprobates will have their mandatory sneer but that's to be expected.         We Look forward to seeing Bristol City at Portman Road next season.      It's not 100 per cent a promotion with two games remaining but it's so close it's as good as accomplished.     

 

[alexukhc]

2 minutes ago, Southend Blue said:

Ashton's been part of a new set-up that at pitch level at least, has met with near total success.       I was wary at first when he came on board, read a number of things that made you question the appointment but seriously he's been part of a difference that you can't quite allow enough superlatives.   

Not just him but McKenna, the influx of the new players, getting rid of the poisonous Marcus Evans and the Yank takeover ownership - it's all come to eventual fruition.     We're having the best season since I'd estimate  2004 - 05, and back then Joe Royle was manager.      In the time in between it's been so uneventful and disappointing you'd have to be a true Town fan to comprehend the full measure of it.

Whatever you think  of us, think of Mark Ashton, take a moment to understand it's been near 20 years of epic failure.    We're on the verge of a first league promotion since 2000.       It's been a long hard hike and wait to finally celebrate something.   

I think most fans of wherever you find them or allegiance would allow us this one time to enjoy something.     Norwich City reprobates will have their mandatory sneer but that's to be expected.         We Look forward to seeing Bristol City at Portman Road next season.      It's not 100 per cent a promotion with two games remaining but it's so close it's as good as accomplished.     

 

How’s Wes Burns for ya?

[cidercity1987]

10 minutes ago, Southend Blue said:

Ashton's been part of a new set-up that at pitch level at least, has met with near total success.       I was wary at first when he came on board, read a number of things that made you question the appointment but seriously he's been part of a difference that you can't quite allow enough superlatives.   

Not just him but McKenna, the influx of the new players, getting rid of the poisonous Marcus Evans and the Yank takeover ownership - it's all come to eventual fruition.     We're having the best season since I'd estimate  2004 - 05, and back then Joe Royle was manager.      In the time in between it's been so uneventful and disappointing you'd have to be a true Town fan to comprehend the full measure of it.

Whatever you think  of us, think of Mark Ashton, take a moment to understand it's been near 20 years of epic failure.    We're on the verge of a first league promotion since 2000.       It's been a long hard hike and wait to finally celebrate something.   

I think most fans of wherever you find them or allegiance would allow us this one time to enjoy something.     Norwich City reprobates will have their mandatory sneer but that's to be expected.         We Look forward to seeing Bristol City at Portman Road next season.      It's not 100 per cent a promotion with two games remaining but it's so close it's as good as accomplished.     

 

Far rather be midtable in the Champ as we have been and you were for many years than messing around in L1 however successfully. Congrats on your promotion through gritted teeth, hopefully for your sake you haven't overloaded the squad with overpaid players not quite of the Champ level

[luke_bristol]

Ipswich have come good at the right time, just as Wednesday bottle it. Wouldn’t shock me if they limp out of the play offs and Barnsley go up. Their confidence must be shot to pieces.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, cidercity1987 said:

Far rather be midtable in the Champ as we have been and you were for many years than messing around in L1 however successfully. Congrats on your promotion through gritted teeth, hopefully for your sake you haven't overloaded the squad with overpaid players not quite of the Champ level

@Southend Blue Similar thoughts from me.  Pre-Ashton, always saw Ipswich as a team a neutral would want to do well.

I massively dislike Ashton for what he did here.

Your big test will be as above, working out how to improve the squad whilst moving on those players clogging up your squad who you cannot afford to move on.

You have players who’ve played and been a success at this level (Chaplin, Morsy, etc).  Will be interesting to see how Wes does at this level.  Broadhead is a smart striker who should be fine (hamstrings permitting) too.

Agents are gonna love you this summer!

 

[Aipearcey]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

@Southend Blue Similar thoughts from me.  Pre-Ashton, always saw Ipswich as a team a neutral would want to do well.

I massively dislike Ashton for what he did here.

Your big test will be as above, working out how to improve the squad whilst moving on those players clogging up your squad who you cannot afford to move on.

You have players who’ve played and been a success at this level (Chaplin, Morsy, etc).  Will be interesting to see how Wes does at this level.  Broadhead is a smart striker who should be fine (hamstrings permitting) too.

Agents are gonna love you this summer!

 

Especially interesting considering Ashton recently included their expected income from player trading when talking about profit and losses for this current season.

[One Team]

If they go up I hope we give Ashton the reception he deserves at Ashton Gate.