Mason Greenwood

[LondonBristolian]

1 minute ago, Ian M said:

Also I wonder how much her family pushed for her to reconcile. Remember back to when it all came out and her father was actually defending Mason.

I did not know that but that makes it even more complex. I don't want to be judgemental but how the Hell can anyone defend someone who does that to their daughter? 

[BigTone]

2 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I did not know that but that makes it even more complex. I don't want to be judgemental but how the Hell can anyone defend someone who does that to their daughter? 

Money ?

[lenred]

9 minutes ago, Ian M said:

Also I wonder how much her family pushed for her to reconcile. Remember back to when it all came out and her father was actually defending Mason.

Truly shocking wasn’t it.   You really do wonder where some people’s morals are. His own daughter and he defends that slimy piece of ****. 

[Ska Junkie]

8 minutes ago, BigTone said:

Money ?

Bloody awful if that is (as I suspect too) the reason. Makes the parent just as vile as the perpetrator for me.

[Gimme Shelton]

1 hour ago, LondonBristolian said:

If it is true, I I would guess almost definitely not the fact he is a millionaire. The problem with abusive relationships is you get into a position where you're abused because someone has destroyed your confidence and self-worth to a point where you view abuse as something you deserve and an "acceptable" price to pay for staying with someone who has convinced you that you can't cope with them. 

If she has gone back to someone who has destroyed her confidence and self-worth to the point where she's convinced she can't cope without him, the financial situation isn't really the key factor. People who get lured back into horrific relationships need support rather than criticism. 

I take your point as always LB but if you don't want to be judgemental we don't know why she is now returning to him and what's going on in her head. Yes it could very well be he destroyed her self confidence,it's just a completely sad situation all round. Waste of a talented player and more importantly abuse of a woman.

[pillred]

11 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

That rings a bell, but I’m a little out of touch at the moment if it’s not life!

Another thing that p me off life, yes sometimes as little as ten or eleven years for somebody in their teens or twenties I really wish they would call it something else because life it's certainly not.

[robinforlife2]

4 hours ago, pillred said:

Another thing that p me off life, yes sometimes as little as ten or eleven years for somebody in their teens or twenties I really wish they would call it something else because life it's certainly not.

I just want to comment on this and not deviate too far from the thread, but a life sentence is a life sentence, it does not mean life in prison. On a NOMIS a sentence is recorded, and in regards to anyone who is sentence to life, it is set at 99 years. This means for their entire life, they will be accountable to probation and licensing conditions.

You refer to 10/11 years, but that is incredibly low, that is something a minor may get, but it doesn't mean that's all they will serve behind the door, it is a minimum term.

One of my best friends and I asked him, and he doesn't mind me posting this, has a father who has been in jail since 1988, 34 years to be exact. When he was 8 years old, his dad had a drinking problem and his wife was preparing to leave him, his Dad panicked one evening drunk and tried to stop his wife from leaving him, it resulted in a physical battle, and he strangled his wife. He immediately panicked and tried to revive her, rang an ambulance and the police immediately but all to no avail. My friend does not remember the night (fortunately for him) but his older sister does. Their father in a terrible state, grief stricken and disgusted with what he did, pled guilty to murder in 1989, he was remanded and given a life sentence with a minimum term of 17 years. For 11 years from 1988 to 1999, my friend was not allowed to see his father, his aunty and uncle stopped him as they had custody of both him and his sister. He didn't really understand the crime he had done, but when he was 18 he wrote to the prison he knew his father was at and wanted to see him and speak to him. It wasn't straight forward and it took over 2 years for the prison, probation and all that to agree that he could see his dad. 
In today's day and age, his dad probably would have been able to plead guilty to manslaughter, but back in the 80s it was a lot different and his father didn't have decent legal advice, but when you plead guilty you have no right of appeal to conviction, just sentence.

His dad, for a long time in prison, made his own life harder, he felt he had nobody and therefore he played up, went against prison rules and because of poor behaviour it wasn't until 2004, some 16years after being imprisoned he was recategorised to category b. By this time, he had the support of both his son and daughter who regularly visited him and he was very much doing whatever he could to get released. In 2008 he was categorised Cat C, and then in 2015 he got his Cat D.  He moved to Open Prison in 2016 and everything was going well, until his pad mate was caught with a phone. He was working outside and going on home leave and everything, but because of this, he was shipped out, and returned to closed conditions. Since then, it has been a struggle for him to get back to open conditions although it was proven it was his pad mates phone. In 2020 he was again moved to Open Conditions and despite having done over 25 home leaves, working outside and so on, in Late 2021 he was denied Parole, because the person handling the parole case wanted to see more evidence he could be trusted in the community. He has now completed 12 home leaves (5 days at a hostel a month), works for a food packing company Monday to Friday in the community and has Parole again in March. HIs son is hoping his dad gets released, so is his daughter. Their dad has done 34 years in prison for one moment of madness in his life. He will have done 35 years by March if he gets parole.
He has to go to a hostel for 6 months if he gets released and will be 71. Both his children want him to come and live with them, but Probation are not keen on this until he has done 6 months in a hostel.

You can argue all you like life, should mean life behind the door, but the reality is, you have to give people the opportunity the chance to be rehabilitated and if you have no intention of releasing them, then you may as well bring back capital punishment.

Even if my friends dad gets released, he will for the rest of his life, be on license. If he so much as got into an argument in the street or got drunk somewhere, he would be recalled to prison and may never get out again, so yes it is life. It may not be life behind bars, but he is 35 years into a 16 years recommended sentence. Just because the judge says minimum term 10-11 years, does not mean they will get out on 10-11 years, in fact much life or IPP prisoners are way over tariff. 

Fortunately IPP has been abolished, but there are people who have done 10-15 years on a 2-3 recommended IPP sentence, who have no idea if they are ever going to be released.

When you get convicted, you get a sentence where you serve half, unless if is for a violent offence, which it is then 2 thirds, although you could also get an EDS. A life sentence is what it is, you are sentenced to life, and it is down to parole if ever get released from prison. A judge may say a minimum of 15 years, but it doesn't mean you are released at 15 years, it means you are eligible for parole at this time. Very few prisoners will ever get released at the minimum time, maybe some people who committed offences when they were young, have a chance, but the reality is, if you commit murder or get convicted of it, must have done 20-30 years before they get a sniff of parole. 

I'm not trying to detract the thread, but I saw your comment and thought you were wrong, and a life sentence is a life sentence, it may not be life in prison, but it is a life sentence. If anything life is better for people in prison on those sentences, they actually have more freedom, when they are released they are doomed to fail, and can't even fart out of place, without fear of being recalled and then probably never getting another chance of release.

What annoys me more, is you see people convicted of low level drug offences, financial crime and other non violent crimes getting handed 4-8 years these days, when the reality is, they aren't a big threat to the public, but someone can hide behind a computer pretending to be a teenager to entice a juvenile and groom them, and often go on to try and sexually abuse them. Average sentence for that sort of offence, 2 years suspended sentence to around 4 years tops! This is what seriously needs addressing, any acts of a sexual nature on a minor should should be a life sentence with a minimum term of at least 10 years. Confiscating their computer, telling them not to do it again, making them sign a register and asking them to report to probation once a month / or two weeks, is not really a harsh punishment, especially when most sex offenders are offered new identities !!!! So they are not targeted !

[robinforlife2]

14 hours ago, Gimme Shelton said:

I take your point as always LB but if you don't want to be judgemental we don't know why she is now returning to him and what's going on in her head. Yes it could very well be he destroyed her self confidence,it's just a completely sad situation all round. Waste of a talented player and more importantly abuse of a woman.

Plus, we don't know if that is true or not. Just because it's what is on social media, doesn't mean its true. People seem to be suggesting a lot of what has been reported as fact. I would rather wait to hear what is said in court, then going along with social media rumours. 

[Major Isewater]

On 30/01/2022 at 11:16, Kid in the Riot said:

I wonder how many more incidents of this nature will have to happen before professional football wakes up and realises it has a particular problem with this kind of thing.

Far too many incidents for such a small group of men. And we certainly don't get to hear about everything that goes on either. 

Following a trial for a group rape by some Canadian  ice hockey players it was revealed that their governing body have a fund for paying off victims of sexual aggression who try to take their members to court.

What adds to the scandal is that all members are obliged to pay into this fund within their global contributions, kids included ! 
It is not just a football problem but one of society. 
Rich young athletes, musicians, celebrities… have always taken advantage of their positions with the choice from an army of consenting or less consenting participants.

 

Edited October 17, 2022 by Major Isewater

[The Batman]

Mentioned it before that there were rumours about his behaviour in 2020 which is the real reason why Southgate never selected him for England after the Iceland hotel incident which took the brunt of the blame. These go back to 2018 according to this. 

To think, the club knew about it all and kept it all hushed up simply because he's a valuable asset.

 

 

[MarcusX]

1 hour ago, The Batman said:

Mentioned it before that there were rumours about his behaviour in 2020 which is the real reason why Southgate never selected him for England after the Iceland hotel incident which took the brunt of the blame. These go back to 2018 according to this. 

To think, the club knew about it all and kept it all hushed up simply because he's a valuable asset.

 

 

Innocent until proven guilty I guess initially, but football has no moral compass on these things, Ronaldo's had similar accusations and paid someone off and it never gets mentioned, Partey's another "current" situation that's being buried.

Agree Southgate has probably sussed him out as a person and doesn't want him around.

[The Batman]

26 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Innocent until proven guilty I guess initially, but football has no moral compass on these things, Ronaldo's had similar accusations and paid someone off and it never gets mentioned, Partey's another "current" situation that's being buried.

Agree Southgate has probably sussed him out as a person and doesn't want him around.

Absolutely. He's entitled to a fair trial to defend himself, as is everyone. 

[!james]

 

 

 

[PHILINFRANCE]

10 hours ago, robinforlife2 said:

I just want to comment on this and not deviate too far from the thread, but a life sentence is a life sentence, it does not mean life in prison. On a NOMIS a sentence is recorded, and in regards to anyone who is sentence to life, it is set at 99 years. This means for their entire life, they will be accountable to probation and licensing conditions.

You refer to 10/11 years, but that is incredibly low, that is something a minor may get, but it doesn't mean that's all they will serve behind the door, it is a minimum term.

One of my best friends and I asked him, and he doesn't mind me posting this, has a father who has been in jail since 1988, 34 years to be exact. When he was 8 years old, his dad had a drinking problem and his wife was preparing to leave him, his Dad panicked one evening drunk and tried to stop his wife from leaving him, it resulted in a physical battle, and he strangled his wife. He immediately panicked and tried to revive her, rang an ambulance and the police immediately but all to no avail. My friend does not remember the night (fortunately for him) but his older sister does. Their father in a terrible state, grief stricken and disgusted with what he did, pled guilty to murder in 1989, he was remanded and given a life sentence with a minimum term of 17 years. For 11 years from 1988 to 1999, my friend was not allowed to see his father, his aunty and uncle stopped him as they had custody of both him and his sister. He didn't really understand the crime he had done, but when he was 18 he wrote to the prison he knew his father was at and wanted to see him and speak to him. It wasn't straight forward and it took over 2 years for the prison, probation and all that to agree that he could see his dad. 
In today's day and age, his dad probably would have been able to plead guilty to manslaughter, but back in the 80s it was a lot different and his father didn't have decent legal advice, but when you plead guilty you have no right of appeal to conviction, just sentence.

His dad, for a long time in prison, made his own life harder, he felt he had nobody and therefore he played up, went against prison rules and because of poor behaviour it wasn't until 2004, some 16years after being imprisoned he was recategorised to category b. By this time, he had the support of both his son and daughter who regularly visited him and he was very much doing whatever he could to get released. In 2008 he was categorised Cat C, and then in 2015 he got his Cat D.  He moved to Open Prison in 2016 and everything was going well, until his pad mate was caught with a phone. He was working outside and going on home leave and everything, but because of this, he was shipped out, and returned to closed conditions. Since then, it has been a struggle for him to get back to open conditions although it was proven it was his pad mates phone. In 2020 he was again moved to Open Conditions and despite having done over 25 home leaves, working outside and so on, in Late 2021 he was denied Parole, because the person handling the parole case wanted to see more evidence he could be trusted in the community. He has now completed 12 home leaves (5 days at a hostel a month), works for a food packing company Monday to Friday in the community and has Parole again in March. HIs son is hoping his dad gets released, so is his daughter. Their dad has done 34 years in prison for one moment of madness in his life. He will have done 35 years by March if he gets parole.
He has to go to a hostel for 6 months if he gets released and will be 71. Both his children want him to come and live with them, but Probation are not keen on this until he has done 6 months in a hostel.

You can argue all you like life, should mean life behind the door, but the reality is, you have to give people the opportunity the chance to be rehabilitated and if you have no intention of releasing them, then you may as well bring back capital punishment.

Even if my friends dad gets released, he will for the rest of his life, be on license. If he so much as got into an argument in the street or got drunk somewhere, he would be recalled to prison and may never get out again, so yes it is life. It may not be life behind bars, but he is 35 years into a 16 years recommended sentence. Just because the judge says minimum term 10-11 years, does not mean they will get out on 10-11 years, in fact much life or IPP prisoners are way over tariff. 

Fortunately IPP has been abolished, but there are people who have done 10-15 years on a 2-3 recommended IPP sentence, who have no idea if they are ever going to be released.

When you get convicted, you get a sentence where you serve half, unless if is for a violent offence, which it is then 2 thirds, although you could also get an EDS. A life sentence is what it is, you are sentenced to life, and it is down to parole if ever get released from prison. A judge may say a minimum of 15 years, but it doesn't mean you are released at 15 years, it means you are eligible for parole at this time. Very few prisoners will ever get released at the minimum time, maybe some people who committed offences when they were young, have a chance, but the reality is, if you commit murder or get convicted of it, must have done 20-30 years before they get a sniff of parole. 

I'm not trying to detract the thread, but I saw your comment and thought you were wrong, and a life sentence is a life sentence, it may not be life in prison, but it is a life sentence. If anything life is better for people in prison on those sentences, they actually have more freedom, when they are released they are doomed to fail, and can't even fart out of place, without fear of being recalled and then probably never getting another chance of release.

What annoys me more, is you see people convicted of low level drug offences, financial crime and other non violent crimes getting handed 4-8 years these days, when the reality is, they aren't a big threat to the public, but someone can hide behind a computer pretending to be a teenager to entice a juvenile and groom them, and often go on to try and sexually abuse them. Average sentence for that sort of offence, 2 years suspended sentence to around 4 years tops! This is what seriously needs addressing, any acts of a sexual nature on a minor should should be a life sentence with a minimum term of at least 10 years. Confiscating their computer, telling them not to do it again, making them sign a register and asking them to report to probation once a month / or two weeks, is not really a harsh punishment, especially when most sex offenders are offered new identities !!!! So they are not targeted !

Thank You for posting an extremely interesting, if harrowing, story.

Obviously, the original crime (based on your account) merits punishment, but the circumstances subsequently must surely be of concern to many parties, and for so many reasons.

I hope that the matter is resolved soon.

[Sheltons Army]

2 hours ago, !james said:

 

 

 

Interesting that the Judge finds ‘persistently and flagrantly’ breached bail conditions , yet he’s only just been arrested for breaching his bail conditions

Suggests that the series of breaches weren’t reported until last week

Anyway , Mason , good luck getting bail prior to trial , with those Judges observations 

[PHILINFRANCE]

22 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Interesting that the Judge finds ‘persistently and flagrantly’ breached bail conditions , yet he’s only just been arrested for breaching his bail conditions

Suggests that the series of breaches weren’t reported until last week

Anyway , Mason , good luck getting bail prior to trial , with those Judges observations 

It was mentioned earlier on this thread that there was some rumour they had been (living?) together again for the past few months.

I suggested in response that was unlikely, given the bail conditions, but is it perhaps true then?

I should be astonished if this were true, and disappointed for (and with) the girl, although stranger things have happened - Ched Evans got back with his original partner....

[Rebounder]

2 hours ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

It was mentioned earlier on this thread that there was some rumour they had been (living?) together again for the past few months.

I suggested in response that was unlikely, given the bail conditions, but is it perhaps true then?

I should be astonished if this were true, and disappointed for (and with) the girl, although stranger things have happened - Ched Evans got back with his original partner....

You don't have any right to be disappointed with her. Firstly it's not really anyone's business and I think others have explained the complexities of abuse like this. 

I don't think you are doing this, but this is the sort of stuff that is pointed out by people trying to undermine survivors/victims of abuse including rape. Lawyers especially are all over it. 

These cycles can take lots of support and time to be broken especially the longer they have gone on. 

[Sheltons Army]

3 hours ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

It was mentioned earlier on this thread that there was some rumour they had been (living?) together again for the past few months.

I suggested in response that was unlikely, given the bail conditions, but is it perhaps true then?

I should be astonished if this were true, and disappointed for (and with) the girl, although stranger things have happened - Ched Evans got back with his original partner....

This part of the BBCs report is interesting (In revealing alleged breaches and time span ‘until October 2022’ ) seems to indicate that , that is likely to not be the case Phil

The controlling and coercive behaviour relates to a period between November 2018 and October 2022, where he is alleged to have made threatening and derogatory comments towards the complainant, as well as accessing and monitoring her social media accounts.

 

[PHILINFRANCE]

He’s now been granted bail again, following a private hearing.

Due in Court in November.

Edited October 19, 2022 by PHILINFRANCE

[Fordy62]

2 hours ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

He’s now been granted bail again, following a private hearing.

Due in Court in November.

Can he stop himself from breaching this bail though? Because the stakes are much higher now. Breaching police bail is one thing… crown court bail is completely different. 

[Super]

All charges dropped

Manchester United footballer Mason Greenwood has charges against him dropped - Manchester Evening News

[Atyeo's Love Child]

Not sure how long he has left on his MU contract, but will be interesting to see how he comes back either there or at another club.

[Mattredrobin]

Just now, Atyeo's Love Child said:

Not sure how long he has left on his MU contract, but will be interesting to see how he comes back either there or at another club.

He will be back, charges been dropped so he's not done anything wrong in the eyes of the law, There's players out there that have done time and have come back out and played. 

[Super]

1 minute ago, Mattredrobin said:

He will be back, charges been dropped so he's not done anything wrong in the eyes of the law, There's players out there that have done time and have come back out and played. 

I agree. He may not play this season it's whether United decide to sell in the summer.

4 minutes ago, Atyeo's Love Child said:

Not sure how long he has left on his MU contract, but will be interesting to see how he comes back either there or at another club.

Until 2025.

[Rocky]

Football has zero morals.  He'll be back 100%

[TheReds]

1 minute ago, Rocky said:

Football has zero morals.  He'll be back 100%

What should football do in this case?

[BS3_RED]

2 minutes ago, Rocky said:

Football has zero morals.  He'll be back 100%

He has NOT been prosecuted. He has a right to earn a living. Morals has nothing to do with it. 

[Fordy62]

Money talks. 

[Red-Robbo]

Just now, BS3_RED said:

He has NOT been prosecuted. He has a right to earn a living. Morals has nothing to do with it. 

 

You can not be prosecuted and still be morally repugnant.  

I'd not be surprised if his Old Trafford career is still over. He'll get a game somewhere though. 

[Mattredrobin]

1 minute ago, BS3_RED said:

He has NOT been prosecuted. He has a right to earn a living. Morals has nothing to do with it. 

Your right he hasn't so he should be able to play again, But without doubt a complete knob for the way he spoke to the girl on that video, Hopefully this last year has been enough to teach him he needs to change.