Mason Greenwood

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

11 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Is he ? The case was discontinued due to withdrawal of key witnesses, read the full article.

Well in the legal sense, yes he is.  That’s meant to be the basis of our legal system.  

[Jacki]

4 hours ago, frenchred said:

Should throw the book at HER. If he didn't do (I don't believe this) she has wasted so much police time,.money and effort, surely grounds for prosecution

What a ridiculous, horrendous thing to say 

[2015]

Unfortunately there is very little respect for one another in our society these days. The community spirit has disappeared. I was taught from a young age to treat my sisters and any woman with extra care and respect from my Grandparents and that's always stayed with me. These troubled young people have zero values and morals from a young age to do these disgusting acts.

The problem is far deeper than just 'educate your sons'. There is a whole mental health crisis among young boys today, including a big drug and homeless problem. We are failing as a society, to teach these kids simple manners and respect. Their heroes today are crass youtubers and rap stars encouraging sex and violence. They have a wide range of access online to sites they shouldn't have access to encouraging these acts whilst failing to develop into a well respected figure in society.

It's not just an 'educate your sons' slogan nonsense. There is so many issues people just wont be willing to discuss when it comes to boys/men.

Anyway, Greenwood is likely not innocent at all and the verdict doesn't disprove this.

[Slacker]

11 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Unfortunately there is very little respect for one another in our society these days. The community spirit has disappeared. I was taught from a young age to treat my sisters and any woman with extra care and respect from my Grandparents and that's always stayed with me. These troubled young people have zero values and morals from a young age to do these disgusting acts.

The problem is far deeper than just 'educate your sons'. There is a whole mental health crisis among young boys today, including a big drug and homeless problem. We are failing as a society, to teach these kids simple manners and respect. Their heroes today are crass youtubers and rap stars encouraging sex and violence. They have a wide range of access online to sites they shouldn't have access to encouraging these acts whilst failing to develop into a well respected figure in society.

It's not just an 'educate your sons' slogan nonsense. There is so many issues people just wont be willing to discuss when it comes to boys/men.

Anyway, Greenwood is likely not innocent at all and the verdict doesn't disprove this.

Sadly this is pretty much spot on.Very bleak.

[nebristolred]

Agree with most of 2015's post, it's really true. It's getting ridiculous. Imo men need to find a way of controlling their urges and emotions because they are constantly making terrible decisions and seem absolutely incapable of controlling themselves, but on the flip side there is also sod all guidance and support out there. I can't imagine how many of our problems would disappear if blokes could actually control themselves properly, but then again the culture that we all create for each other doesn't exactly encourage compassion and openness.

Also anyone criticising the victim and making comments about money can get in the bin. Whatever happened in that part of the story is pretty much a moot point. The fact is that the recording exists and it almost certainly happened, and what Greenwood did is disgusting.

Edited February 3, 2023 by nebristolred

[REDOXO]

9 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

Most of us know the score. 

No they really don’t. If you’re not somehow connected to something like this you have no clue one way or another!

[REDOXO]

5 hours ago, 2015 said:

Unfortunately there is very little respect for one another in our society these days. The community spirit has disappeared. I was taught from a young age to treat my sisters and any woman with extra care and respect from my Grandparents and that's always stayed with me. These troubled young people have zero values and morals from a young age to do these disgusting acts.

The problem is far deeper than just 'educate your sons'. There is a whole mental health crisis among young boys today, including a big drug and homeless problem. We are failing as a society, to teach these kids simple manners and respect. Their heroes today are crass youtubers and rap stars encouraging sex and violence. They have a wide range of access online to sites they shouldn't have access to encouraging these acts whilst failing to develop into a well respected figure in society.

It's not just an 'educate your sons' slogan nonsense. There is so many issues people just wont be willing to discuss when it comes to boys/men.

Anyway, Greenwood is likely not innocent at all and the verdict doesn't disprove this.

Some of this has some resonance. But if you think sexual assault was less of a problem in the 60/70/80/90s you are having a laugh. 
 

The fact is victims groups have forced changes in the law and police and legal attitudes 

Groups highlighting peadophiles and attacks on girls/boys and women have over decades forced people to take a look at themselves and the law. 
 

Thankfully most out there never have had to deal with anything that comes close to rape sexual abuse or worse. 
 

@Fordy62are you a copper or am I mistaken? 
 

 

[Phileas Fogg]

16 hours ago, The Coach said:

He will end up playing abroad for now. Somewhere like Turkey or Greece to restart his career until he gets a move somewhere inland Europe

It’s an interesting situation because unlike Adam Johnson, an Everton player or Lee Hughes for example - he’s still very early in his career and was seen as having world class potential.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see him end up in Spain or Italy if he is going to go abroad as he’s too good for the Turkish or Greek league.

[2015]

4 hours ago, REDOXO said:

Some of this has some resonance. But if you think sexual assault was less of a problem in the 60/70/80/90s you are having a laugh.

I was more talking that in general the attitude and respect has lowered these last few years and if these lads have no respect for themselves you cant expect them to respect Women

It's more about the general attitude nowadays. Boundaries have been set since the dark days of the 70s when a Man could virtually do and say what he liked. The sexual revolution of the 60s was likely the first time in History that Men had access to multiple different Women. However, times have changed (for the good) and most Men know that the behaviours from those days were wrong, in general. Any Man who is still committing these acts in 2023 should know better and it leaves me to think the problem is far deeper than just education.

[Super]

Just now, 2015 said:

I was more talking that in general the attitude and respect has lowered these last few years and if these lads have no respect for themselves you cant expect them to respect Women

It's more about the general attitude nowadays. Boundaries have been set since the dark days of the 70s when a Man could virtually do and say what he liked. The sexual revolution of the 60s was likely the first time in History that Men had access to multiple different Women. However, times have changed (for the good) and most Men know that the behaviours from those days were wrong, in general. Any Man who is still committing these acts in 2023 should know better and it leaves me to think the problem is far deeper than just education.

Probably going off track a bit but a couple of times last year i held open a door for a female as i was brought up to do and they said it's fine it's not 1970 anymore! . I thought it was an odd comment tbh. I was brought up to respect woman especially.

[JBFC II]

15 hours ago, frenchred said:

Should throw the book at HER. If he didn't do (I don't believe this) she has wasted so much police time,.money and effort, surely grounds for prosecution

This is one of the key reasons why so many women don't come forward in the first place having been sexually assaulted or raped. I read recently that 97% of women over 16 have been or will be sexually assaulted, yet so few try to prosecute, and attitudes like this are one of the key reasons. 

One of my closest friends was raped 3 years ago. She never took it to the police because she knew that nothing would come of it, and she feared she would be accused of wasting police time, just like you're saying here. That doesn't take away from the hell that that night has caused her since, resulting in trauma that will never fully go away. 

As you say, Greenwood wasn't found guilty. But, like with the vast, vast majority of incidences of sexual assault and rape, that doesn't make him innocent, and it certainly doesn't make his partner a liar. That outlook causes so many issues for women who have been through what she's been through

[Peter1450]

3 minutes ago, Super said:

Probably going off track a bit but a couple of times last year i held open a door for a female as i was brought up to do and they said it's fine it's not 1970 anymore! . I thought it was an odd comment tbh. I was brought up to respect woman especially.

Trouble is you can’t win, if you are polite and do what us older chaps were taught was the correct behaviour a lot of women look at you as if you have just landed from another planet. 
       If they could prise the mobile from they’re face or turn the headphones down for a second they might just learn we’re just being courteous.

[2015]

9 minutes ago, Super said:

Probably going off track a bit but a couple of times last year i held open a door for a female as i was brought up to do and they said it's fine it's not 1970 anymore! . I thought it was an odd comment tbh. I was brought up to respect woman especially.

I would hope a minority would say something like that as holding the door for anyone is a respectful thing to do, male or female. 

[frenchred]

7 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

This is one of the key reasons why so many women don't come forward in the first place having been sexually assaulted or raped. I read recently that 97% of women over 16 have been or will be sexually assaulted, yet so few try to prosecute, and attitudes like this are one of the key reasons. 

One of my closest friends was raped 3 years ago. She never took it to the police because she knew that nothing would come of it, and she feared she would be accused of wasting police time, just like you're saying here. That doesn't take away from the hell that that night has caused her since, resulting in trauma that will never fully go away. 

As you say, Greenwood wasn't found guilty. But, like with the vast, vast majority of incidences of sexual assault and rape, that doesn't make him innocent, and it certainly doesn't make his partner a liar. That outlook causes so many issues for women who have been through what she's been through

I have nothing but sympathy for your friend and was always a brought up to respect everyone especially women and your elders.

I assume my point has come across badly and am truly sorry for this 

What I was trying to say ( and I'll probs still get it wrong)!is that this women has not helped women going forward, we all know the piece of shit is guilty as hell, by her taking his riches she will set back women in coming forwards 

 

 

[W-S-M Seagull]

We've all heard the recording. Whilst for whatever reason (money) he won't be brought to justice, we all know what he did. 

In the past we have seen players return to football after such convictions however I feel we now live in a different society where his return wouldn't be seen as acceptable. 

Without the recording maybe he could resume his career but the recording is as clear as you can get. 

[Phileas Fogg]

I wonder how ten Hag will handle it. He showed with Ronaldo that he's not scared to get rid of players if it's for the greater good. I suspect he may feel it's not worth the backlash to keep Greenwood.

Edited February 3, 2023 by Phileas Fogg

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

19 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

We've all heard the recording. Whilst for whatever reason (money) he won't be brought to justice, we all know what he did. 

In the past we have seen players return to football after such convictions however I feel we now live in a different society where his return wouldn't be seen as acceptable. 

Without the recording maybe he could resume his career but the recording is as clear as you can get. 

 

2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I wonder how ten Hag will handle it. He showed with Ronaldo that he's not scared to get rid of players if it's for the greater good. I suspect he may feel it's not worth the backlash to keep Greenwood.

I think in a real sense his footballing career is over, he will probably go play in an obscure league for a few years, then maybe attempt a return in 4 or 5 years.  Ten Hag will know this and will look to ship him out the door.

[chinapig]

15 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I wonder how ten Hag will handle it. He showed with Ronaldo that he's not scared to get rid of players if it's for the greater good. I suspect he may feel it's not worth the backlash to keep Greenwood.

I think it depends whether their priority is football, money or the image of the club.

My guess is that Ten Hag will want him out but it's not entirely his decision. The dilemma is discussed here:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/feb/02/manchester-united-mason-greenwood-huge-decision

[Phileas Fogg]

3 minutes ago, chinapig said:

I think it depends whether their priority is football, money or the image of the club.

My guess is that Ten Hag will want him out but it's not entirely his decision. The dilemma is discussed here:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/feb/02/manchester-united-mason-greenwood-huge-decision

Thank you, will take a read of that.

Erik ten Haag has done an awful lot in a short space of time to shift the culture at United. Removing Ronaldo was symbolic and an important factor in this. 

As I mentioned earlier, I think Greenwood is a bit too good to end up in the Turkish or Greek league. I'm sure there will be one team in a major European league that'll take him on.. Different situation, but I remember there being talk of Adam Johnson playing in France post release. A situation like this will be viewed differently outside of our country I'd have thought. 

[MarcusX]

19 hours ago, BS3_RED said:

He has NOT been prosecuted. He has a right to earn a living. Morals has nothing to do with it. 

I think that means morals has everything to do it. Legally he's ok to carry on - but morally it would be the right thing to distance yourself from an individual. This is particularly different to many accusations as we've all heard the recordings for ourselves. If I did this, I'm 99% sure my work would have cut ties with me for bringing the company into disrepute or similar.

19 hours ago, GrahamC said:

There’s a club not far from us that specialises in employing people who have had brushes with the law..

Read something the other day about how incredibly low the number of reported rapes that reach court are, it’s a scandal.

No way are all (in fact many) of these cases made up, just a terrible legal system that we are “served” by.

That's not a terrible legal system, it just means its incredibly hard to prove in most cases. It has to be difficult to convict to protect innocent people from false accusations - but that's no comfort for the many, many women who don't get justice - and often times then get blamed as @frenchredhas decided to do.

19 hours ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

I don't know enough about this particular case to declare against Greenwood but it seems to me that dropping of charges doesn't necessarily mean he's done nothing wrong, only that legal opinion is that its not longer worth the time and cost of pursuing a case where a conviction cannot be guaranteed. 

A key witness (presumably the victim) pulled out meaning it would be incredibly difficult to prosecute. The defence could say nothing further happened at the time of the recording, or that it was roleplay.. They wouldn't be able to confirm when the bruises and injuries happened etc.

17 hours ago, frenchred said:

Should throw the book at HER. If he didn't do (I don't believe this) she has wasted so much police time,.money and effort, surely grounds for prosecution

This is a truly bizarre take. There's nothing to suggest she's wasted anyone's time. For starters I'm fairly sure in DV cases the Police continue with investigation even without the victim's support (because so often they refuse to speak out through fear etc).

Domestic violence and abuse are complex situations, it's very rarely a case of if the bloke's innocent the woman must be a timewaster / liar

16 hours ago, Bobbie said:

possibly the worst comment I’ve ever read on here. Quite the achievement 

You must have missed the Ched Evans thread a few years back, a lot of people defended him - but agree it's up there with some terrible comments.

17 hours ago, Eddie Notgetinya said:

At the risk of sounding cynical she got back with him soon after probably because she didn’t want to give up the lifestyle she had and as such hasn’t supported a prosecution meaning he gets away with it. Let’s just hope he’s learnt from it. 

Trust you to hold this view 

[W-S-M Seagull]

Simon Jordan believes that Man Utd may have a case for him bringing the club I to disrepute due to the reputational damage caused by him. 

[Taz]

14 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Simon Jordan believes that Man Utd may have a case for him bringing the club I to disrepute due to the reputational damage caused by him. 

Think this is the more likely outcome to be honest.

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

23 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Simon Jordan believes that Man Utd may have a case for him bringing the club I to disrepute due to the reputational damage caused by him. 

It may or may not be the case but why is Simon Jordan getting involved. He walked away from football years ago but still seems to get either wheeled out or volunteers to comment. I don't see City's ex Chair Simon Davidson chirping up on matters that don't involve him. 

[2015]

5 minutes ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

It may or may not be the case but why is Simon Jordan getting involved. He walked away from football years ago but still seems to get either wheeled out or volunteers to comment. I don't see City's ex Chair Simon Davidson chirping up on matters that don't involve him. 

Simon Davidson?

[Red-Robbo]

4 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Simon Davidson?

 

He means Scott Jordan.... 

[Super]

39 minutes ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

It may or may not be the case but why is Simon Jordan getting involved. He walked away from football years ago but still seems to get either wheeled out or volunteers to comment. I don't see City's ex Chair Simon Davidson chirping up on matters that don't involve him. 

Maybe because he has a show on Talksport.

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

48 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Simon Davidson?

I meant Scott Davidson 

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

14 minutes ago, Super said:

Maybe because he has a show on Talksport.

Really! I knew there was a reason I don't tune in. 

[nebristolred]

2 hours ago, Peter1450 said:

Trouble is you can’t win, if you are polite and do what us older chaps were taught was the correct behaviour a lot of women look at you as if you have just landed from another planet. 
 

Such as what, just out of interest?

[Big C]

Mason Greenwood to become a father just weeks after charges dropped