Mason Greenwood

[MarcusX]

1 hour ago, Jeez said:

Ok, so you’d green light anyone treating your daughter/sister/mother like that just because they can play a bit?

I assuming that hopefully that you actually haven’t seen it & are posting a bit ignorantly of the evidence 

 

 

 

In no way would I want to defend someone who does something like this, but this isn't actually evidence that HE did it.

In the balance of probability, and as he hasn't denied it (as far as I know) I'd assume it probably was him. The comments from her Dad were bizarre (to put it kindly).

Someone else will know more, but I thought when it came to DV the Police / CPS could persue even if the victim didn't support it? Or is that only the initial investigation?

I had a friend go through this, the girl called the Police and lied, and the next morning regretted her actions - however the Police still continued investigations, arrested him, made him move out while this went on. 

1 hour ago, Fordy62 said:

I don’t recall being aware of Simpson’s crimes at the time he signed. 

But, yeh, I’d rather we hadn’t signed him yes. Same as I’d rather we didn’t sign any woman beater. Aren’t many things that put you lower in society in my book. 

Hope that helps. 

THere was a very long thread on it, I'm surprised if you missed that. His previous actions were well known and brought up immediately.  A women's charity even ended their connection with us didn't they?

[SBB]

53 minutes ago, Ashtongatered said:

I’d take him back here tbf 

I wouldn’t. Everyone deserves a second chance but he wouldn’t get it as a footballer and role model if it was up to me. 

Edited August 17, 2023 by SBB

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

5 minutes ago, SBB said:

I wouldn’t. Everyone deserves a second chance but he wouldn’t get it as a footballer and role model if it was up to me. 

Isn’t a reformed person the best role model?  If you hold your hands up to something and use that experience to discourage others, that can be very powerful.  As you say, everyone deserves a second chance.

[Fordy62]

31 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

In no way would I want to defend someone who does something like this, but this isn't actually evidence that HE did it.

In the balance of probability, and as he hasn't denied it (as far as I know) I'd assume it probably was him. The comments from her Dad were bizarre (to put it kindly).

Someone else will know more, but I thought when it came to DV the Police / CPS could persue even if the victim didn't support it? Or is that only the initial investigation?

I had a friend go through this, the girl called the Police and lied, and the next morning regretted her actions - however the Police still continued investigations, arrested him, made him move out while this went on. 

THere was a very long thread on it, I'm surprised if you missed that. His previous actions were well known and brought up immediately.  A women's charity even ended their connection with us didn't they?

I read about the women’s charity thing this morning actually for the first time and I wasn’t even aware of the circs of his arrest/conviction until I read them this morning about an hour ago. 
 

I’ve just spent the last 20 minutes searching for this thread, but I can’t find it. I can’t even find one on Simpson signing let alone the host of other search terms I’ve tried. If you can find it then I’ll gladly go through it. 

But I’m pretty sure I don’t recall it. 

I’ve commented on the DA (it’s not called DV any longer) a few posts ago. Because sexual assaults are so much around consent, victimless is nigh on impossible without a complainant - assault is less about consent because it’s almost a given that no one consents to assault. Sex is all about consent. 

[SBB]

55 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Isn’t a reformed person the best role model?  If you hold your hands up to something and use that experience to discourage others, that can be very powerful.  As you say, everyone deserves a second chance.

No the best role models lead by example. The most powerful message would be if no other club touched him and as a father of a 16 year old boy, that message is far more important to me than the rehabilitation of Mason Greenwood. 
A lot of young, impressionable Man Utd fans were not bothered what he did, they just wanted him back in the team so I have little faith those same fans would watch a 30min interview where he says sorry and he was wrong. 

[cityexile]

1 hour ago, MarcusX said:

In no way would I want to defend someone who does something like this, but this isn't actually evidence that HE did it.

In the balance of probability, and as he hasn't denied it (as far as I know) I'd assume it probably was him. The comments from her Dad were bizarre (to put it kindly).

Someone else will know more, but I thought when it came to DV the Police / CPS could persue even if the victim didn't support it? Or is that only the initial investigation?

I had a friend go through this, the girl called the Police and lied, and the next morning regretted her actions - however the Police still continued investigations, arrested him, made him move out while this went on. 

THere was a very long thread on it, I'm surprised if you missed that. His previous actions were well known and brought up immediately.  A women's charity even ended their connection with us didn't they?

I am sorry for your friend, and I am sure we can all come up in our minds with some kind of scenario where this women somehow set this up. That is why we have to accept somebody is innocent until proven guilt legally. I am also wary of a kind of trial by media (or social media).

Equally I work with children, and there is a whole pile of stuff I could do that would lead me to lose my job, quire rightly, that do not pass any legal conviction threshold.

Lets just remind ourselves one piece of the evidence that did exist, the recording. Leaving it as a link in case anyone does not wish to see it:

Imgur: The magic of the Internet

 

 

[Fordy62]

I suppose also have to ask ourselves, how many times do you have to be raped to have the presence of mind to record it. It’s not one I assure you. 

[BarnzFM]

2 hours ago, SBB said:

I wouldn’t. Everyone deserves a second chance but he wouldn’t get it as a footballer and role model if it was up to me. 

Also I think to give a second chance I’d want to see some remorse. The fact that one of the charges was coercive control and he contacted her after the charges were made really shows me what I need about Greenwood. 

12 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

I suppose also have to ask ourselves, how many times do you have to be raped to have the presence of mind to record it. It’s not one I assure you. 

I mean this is sick isn’t it. How can it even be considered bringing him back 

[BarnzFM]

2 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Isn’t a reformed person the best role model?  If you hold your hands up to something and use that experience to discourage others, that can be very powerful.  As you say, everyone deserves a second chance.

Is he reformed though? No remorse, no acceptance of what he’s done - he’s got away with it, that’s not a role model I want for anyone 

[prankerd]

This is a bit of an odd case, if there was no pictures or voice recordings, would this even be an issue anymore? 

Kurt zouma had a recording of him kicking a cat, Cristiano ronaldo had a dodgy case where he paid off a woman accusing him of rape, ched evans got given a chance again after his career was destroyed.

Just look at bristol rovers very own joey barton, the guy was a horrible man who still has a career now.

Where do we draw the line of who shouldn't play football anymore? 

 

[Maltshoveller]

You just know 

That if he was a young youth player who was never going to get to 1st team level

and only ever going to be a 1st/2nd div player He would have been sacked months ago

(only imo)

[B-Rizzle]

24 minutes ago, prankerd said:

This is a bit of an odd case, if there was no pictures or voice recordings, would this even be an issue anymore? 

Kurt zouma had a recording of him kicking a cat, Cristiano ronaldo had a dodgy case where he paid off a woman accusing him of rape, ched evans got given a chance again after his career was destroyed.

Just look at bristol rovers very own joey barton, the guy was a horrible man who still has a career now.

Where do we draw the line of who shouldn't play football anymore? 

 

In my view, you’re right to a certain degree but you can’t hide away from the fact that the recording IS in the public domain. He may not have been found legally guilty of any crime but as that snippet of evidence is public, the public will make up their own minds about him in line with their own moral compass.

My question is:

Are United actually able to legally terminate his contract if he’s not been found guilty of anything? If no, then it’s conversation over regardless of how any of us feel about that.

Personally I get Utd’s point about also having a responsibility to MG himself and rehabilitation etc but I think they can still ‘support him’ without keeping his employment as a footballer.

[MarcusX]

There's also the situation in Iceland with Greenwood and Southgate bombing him from the squad. In isolation it may have seemed an odd decision, but I bet there's more to that story - even if it's just levels of remorse

[MarcusX]

5 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

I read about the women’s charity thing this morning actually for the first time and I wasn’t even aware of the circs of his arrest/conviction until I read them this morning about an hour ago. 
 

I’ve just spent the last 20 minutes searching for this thread, but I can’t find it. I can’t even find one on Simpson signing let alone the host of other search terms I’ve tried. If you can find it then I’ll gladly go through it. 

But I’m pretty sure I don’t recall it. 

I’ve commented on the DA (it’s not called DV any longer) a few posts ago. Because sexual assaults are so much around consent, victimless is nigh on impossible without a complainant - assault is less about consent because it’s almost a given that no one consents to assault. Sex is all about consent. 

It's not important and I'm not calling you a liar, I think it was largely in the transfer thread as it was the post about him rumoured to be signing

FWIW I find google easier for searching than the forum search

 

[Baba Yaga]

31 minutes ago, B-Rizzle said:

In my view, you’re right to a certain degree but you can’t hide away from the fact that the recording IS in the public domain. He may not have been found legally guilty of any crime but as that snippet of evidence is public, the public will make up their own minds about him in line with their own moral compass.

My question is:

Are United actually able to legally terminate his contract if he’s not been found guilty of anything? If no, then it’s conversation over regardless of how any of us feel about that.

Personally I get Utd’s point about also having a responsibility to MG himself and rehabilitation etc but I think they can still ‘support him’ without keeping his employment as a footballer.

If they are going to down the road of having a responsibility to him then it's going to be difficult bringing him back in when he is going to be public enemy to all opposition fans and probably some players too. Maybe the player and manager think its best staying nearby but overall to me it seems too controversial and I think the directors might overrule it, somewhere abroad for a season wouldn't have quite the same pressure.

As for your question I think it's been said already but I understand that the club could quite easily terminate his contract even with no conviction in this case, they would have already done it though I think if that's what they wanted.

[marcofisher]

For those saying he deserves a second chance, he has already had it, not being prosecuted.

He can enjoy his second chance outside of football, which his status and wealth has afforded him.

Disgusting that any club could consider him with the scarring recordings that many of us heard. I imagine he will still end up playing for a club in a country which has very different standpoints on domestic violence to us. 

[McNasty Filth]

8 hours ago, cityexile said:

At this stage her own dad sided with Mason. There was a bail condition that Mason should not contact her. He did. Indeed to the extent she got pregnant and charges were dropped when she made it clear she would not testify.

 As a young man, he should be given the opportunity for personal growth and development, sure. Let him go and work in a food bank for 12 months. He is not the victim here.

So hang on a minute can someone please clarify, the woman who accused him of said crimes has just had his kid and they are still together?!?! I thought they were two different people according to the statement the club has just put out!

If so the following two paragraphs in said statement are truely bizarre

Throughout this process, the welfare and perspective of the alleged victim has been central to the club’s inquiries, and we respect her right to lifelong anonymity.

We also have responsibilities to Mason as an employee, as a young person who has been with the club since the age of seven, and as a new father with a partner

Edited August 17, 2023 by jaydee=inspiration

[B-Rizzle]

3 minutes ago, jaydee=inspiration said:

So hang on a minute can someone please clarify, the woman who accused him of said crimes has just had his kid and they are still together?!?! I thought they were two different people according to the statement the club has just put out!

If so the following two paragraphs in said statement are truely bizarre

Throughout this process, the welfare and perspective of the alleged victim has been central to the club’s inquiries, and we respect her right to lifelong anonymity.

We also have responsibilities to Mason as an employee, as a young person who has been with the club since the age of seven, and as a new father with a partner

The alleged victim has a right to life long anonymity which is exactly why they won’t tell you that the person he’s had a kid with is the same person - that would ruin their anonymity, wouldn’t it… as bizarre as that might sound.

[Fordy62]

1 hour ago, MarcusX said:

It's not important and I'm not calling you a liar, I think it was largely in the transfer thread as it was the post about him rumoured to be signing

FWIW I find google easier for searching than the forum search

 

Ahhhh. Google search. Good call. 

[Fordy62]

1 hour ago, MarcusX said:

It's not important and I'm not calling you a liar, I think it was largely in the transfer thread as it was the post about him rumoured to be signing

FWIW I find google easier for searching than the forum search

 

For confirmation I’ve just had a look through the thread and I don’t appear on it. Goodness knows what I’d have been up to, but I missed it. The photos in my photo real suggests I was between choosing towel colours for our new en-suite/on a lads cycling trip to the Wirral or watching my then 4 year old play cricket!

Big up to @WolfOfWestStreet @petehinton @CodeRed @And Its Smith and @Super for adequately representing the views I would have had if I’d seen the thread at the time. Nice work chaps (?)  

A special shout out too to @alexukhc who stated, in relation to Simpson’s signing “I’d rather have Joey Barton, at least he’s never beaten up a woman” - didn’t age ideally to be fair mate!

 

[maxjak]

1 hour ago, marcofisher said:

For those saying he deserves a second chance, he has already had it, not being prosecuted.

He can enjoy his second chance outside of football, which his status and wealth has afforded him.

Disgusting that any club could consider him with the scarring recordings that many of us heard. I imagine he will still end up playing for a club in a country which has very different standpoints on domestic violence to us. 

Siberia has a challenging league system...........he should try his luck there?

[alexukhc]

31 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

For confirmation I’ve just had a look through the thread and I don’t appear on it. Goodness knows what I’d have been up to, but I missed it. The photos in my photo real suggests I was between choosing towel colours for our new en-suite/on a lads cycling trip to the Wirral or watching my then 4 year old play cricket!

Big up to @WolfOfWestStreet @petehinton @CodeRed @And Its Smith and @Super for adequately representing the views I would have had if I’d seen the thread at the time. Nice work chaps (?)  

A special shout out too to @alexukhc who stated, in relation to Simpson’s signing “I’d rather have Joey Barton, at least he’s never beaten up a woman” - didn’t age ideally to be fair mate!

 

Oh god… 

[Riaz]

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/man-utd-official-club-statement-on-mason-greenwood-21-august-2023

 

basically - we wanted to keep him - but everyone would complain, so we'll sell him

[Henry]

Interesting they haven’t sacked him or released him a free. 

[ExiledAjax]

4 minutes ago, Riaz said:

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/man-utd-official-club-statement-on-mason-greenwood-21-august-2023

 

basically - we wanted to keep him - but everyone would complain, so we'll sell him

Yeh, not sacking him or getting rid of him, presumably because they either couldn't find a contractual mechanism by which to do so or they think the can still get a transfer done this month and get some £ for him!

[Rocky]

Saudi Arabia here he comes 

[The Original OTIB]

8 minutes ago, TomF said:

I was brought up to know that violence or abuse in any relationship is wrong, I did not do the things I was accused of, and in February I was cleared of all charges.

 

Not cleared, charges dropped by CPS who do not decide guilt in any case. Matter remains under continuous review. 

[Super]

18 minutes ago, Rocky said:

Saudi Arabia here he comes 

Hero's welcome.

[Merrick's Marvels]

If, as ManUre's statement says, "Mason did not commit the offences" why are they getting rid of him??

Stupid question, really.  

[And Its Smith]

39 minutes ago, Henry said:

Interesting they haven’t sacked him or released him a free. 

20-30 million reasons why they don’t want to let him go for free