Mason Greenwood

[alexukhc]

3 minutes ago, BS3_RED said:

He has NOT been prosecuted. He has a right to earn a living. Morals has nothing to do with it. 

Sadly this is right, despite all the pics, voicemail and evidence we have all seen, he wasn’t charged so in the eyes of the law he’s done no wrong

[Northern Red]

It's just about the worst case scenario for Man Utd. Lost him for a year, had to pay him while he was suspended, can’t sack him, will get peanuts for him if they sell him, the fallout if they decide to let him play will be seismic and he's contracted for another 2 years.

Good luck sorting that one out.
 

[GrahamC]

6 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

You can not be prosecuted and still be morally repugnant.  

I'd not be surprised if his Old Trafford career is still over. He'll get a game somewhere though. 

There’s a club not far from us that specialises in employing people who have had brushes with the law..

Read something the other day about how incredibly low the number of reported rapes that reach court are, it’s a scandal.

No way are all (in fact many) of these cases made up, just a terrible legal system that we are “served” by.

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

I don't know enough about this particular case to declare against Greenwood but it seems to me that dropping of charges doesn't necessarily mean he's done nothing wrong, only that legal opinion is that its not longer worth the time and cost of pursuing a case where a conviction cannot be guaranteed. 

[Atticus]

3 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

It's just about the worst case scenario for Man Utd. Lost him for a year, had to pay him while he was suspended, can’t sack him, will get peanuts for him if they sell him, the fallout if they decide to let him play will be seismic and he's contracted for another 2 years.

Good luck sorting that one out.
 

Isn't there a way they can still sack him for damaging clubs reputation or something?

I mean all the stuff that we heard was sickening to say the least. I'd be very uncomfortable if he was a player for us personally. 

[myol'man]

Same brief as St. Joseph?

[TheReds]

1 minute ago, GrahamC said:

There’s a club not far from us that specialises in employing people who have had brushes with the law..

Read something the other day about how incredibly low the number of reported rapes that reach court are, it’s a scandal.

No way are all (in fact many) of these cases made up, just a terrible legal system that we are “served” by.

But how do you prosecute them if they are generally unproveable? You cannot just find men guilty due to accusations. It is obviously horrible for any victim but I really don't see what else the law can do when it is a he said, she said, and especially when it is all behind closed doors with usually no witnesses.

[CyderHead92]

People will say it's wrong that he plays for United again, but he most definitely will. To be fair, the law says innocent until proven guilty and he hasn't been proven guilty. 

[Tim Monaghan]

At the end of the day, he is innocent, so he should be able to carry on with his career. If Luke McCormick can carry on, then…….

[Fordy62]

5 minutes ago, TheReds said:

But how do you prosecute them if they are generally unproveable? You cannot just find men guilty due to accusations. It is obviously horrible for any victim but I really don't see what else the law can do when it is a he said, she said, and especially when it is all behind closed doors with usually no witnesses.

That’s right. Normally. However this case had a really impactive recording. It had more evidence than 99% of rapes would ever have. 

But without the support of the girlfriend the defence could just say whatever they liked and it couldn’t be rebutted. 

It’s very sad really. 

[Fordy62]

1 minute ago, Ghost Rider said:

At the end of the day, he is innocent, so he should be able to carry on with his career. If Luke McCormick can carry on, then…….

Common misconception. He’s not innocent. He’s not guilty. Important difference. 

I can break into your house and steal your tv. If I don’t get caught I’m not innocent of burglary. 

[Northern Red]

Just now, Fordy62 said:

That’s right. Normally. However this case had a really impactive recording. It had more evidence than 99% of rapes would ever have. 

But without the support of the girlfriend the defence could just say whatever they liked and it couldn’t be rebutted. 

It’s very sad really. 

I note the police in their statement made a point of saying they don't want this put other women off coming forward if they are victims of similar situations, which does come across as a bit of a veiled comment on this case.

 

[Fordy62]

1 minute ago, Northern Red said:

I note the police in their statement made a point of saying they don't want this put other women off coming forward if they are victims of similar situations, which does come across as a bit of a veiled comment on this case.

 

I think they’ve made an obvious point of making sure everyone knows this case is not going ahead purely on grounds that she withdrew her support. 

[Barrs Court Red]

People will say innocent until proven guilty, but in the social media age that’s now a load of old bollocks.  I’d be surprised if he plays in England again personally. 
 

 

[ExiledAjax]

Just now, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

I don't know enough about this particular case to declare against Greenwood but it seems to me that dropping of charges doesn't necessarily mean he's done nothing wrong, only that legal opinion is that its not longer worth the time and cost of pursuing a case where a conviction cannot be guaranteed. 

The Crown Prosecution Service said the charges were discontinued after a key witness withdrew their involvement.

"In this case a combination of the withdrawal of key witnesses and new material that came to light meant there was no longer a realistic prospect of conviction. In these circumstances, we are under a duty to stop the case."

So he's avoided a court case on a technicality. A key witness, presumably on who's testimony the CPS's case hung, has withdrawn. Plus some new information - which could or could not be related to such withdrawal - has come to light. It's likely that new information made it more likely that Greenwood would be able to access a defence previously unavailable to him.

Just now, Atticus said:

Isn't there a way they can still sack him for damaging clubs reputation or something?

They can sack him right now if they want to. But they would have to pay out his contract, plus anything else he's owed or could sue them for under the law. The question you are really asking is: isn't there a way they can sack him cheaply and cleanly?

The answer to that will depend on the exact drafting of his contract and any related Man Utd HR policies. Those will have references to things like misconduct and "gross misconduct". Normally it's only gross misconduct that results in sacking/termination of contract. Ultimately, the fact that they've not already sacked him suggests that only through a conviction would he be considered to have crossed the threshold and be at a point where his misconduct is "gross" and is therefore such that they can sack him without having to pay the amounts I describe above.

If Man Utd care about this at all, and if they want him out of the club, then they are probably in negotiations with him right now on a settlement package. Ultimately though he's a saleable asset and as we saw with Derby and the car crash - young, low wage and saleable players get treated very differently to old, high wage, low value ones.

[Atyeo's Love Child]

22 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

It's just about the worst case scenario for Man Utd. Lost him for a year, had to pay him while he was suspended, can’t sack him, will get peanuts for him if they sell him, the fallout if they decide to let him play will be seismic and he's contracted for another 2 years.

Good luck sorting that one out.
 

They will have to make sure that the players they sign are Good Humans in the future.

[TheReds]

18 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

That’s right. Normally. However this case had a really impactive recording. It had more evidence than 99% of rapes would ever have. 

But without the support of the girlfriend the defence could just say whatever they liked and it couldn’t be rebutted. 

It’s very sad really. 

That recording didn't seem to prove there was any rape though did it? If it did he would have been tried in court. 

If it also had more than 99% than other rape cases have then it shows exactly why the conviction rate is low, it is just so hard to prove.

[petehinton]

Pretty clear she’s been paid off. Case dropped isn’t not guilty. 
 

The fact anyone can hear the audio or see the pictures of the damage he inflicted on her, and think he should be able to play again is shameful 

[LondonBristolian]

Just now, petehinton said:

Pretty clear she’s been paid off. Case dropped isn’t not guilty. 
 

The fact anyone can hear the audio or see the pictures of the damage he inflicted on her, and think he should be able to play again is shameful 

In a way, I hope for her sake that she's been paid off. Sadly huge number of domestic abuse cases get dropped because the abuser convinces their partner that they've changed, next time will be different and the partner ends up taking them back. And of course the "next time" is often not so different after all...

[ExiledAjax]

3 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Pretty clear she’s been paid off. Case dropped isn’t not guilty. 

I don't know, the line from the CPS that "...new material that came to light meant there was no longer a realistic prospect of conviction." suggests that somewhere someone has dug up something that implies or suggests or casts enough doubt around the whole "consent" aspect of any rape or assault that, in combination with the withdrawal of the key witness, a reasonable prospect of conviction was no longer certain.

If such new material cast the key witness in a less than flattering light, and meant that conviction was very unlikely, then it is possible that they might have decided to withdraw so as not to go through the embarrassment and stress of a trial that was considered unlikely to succeed.

Of course, a private settlement is also possible, and I am aware of the stories about Greenwood's behaviour towards witnesses, but it's not something you should immediately assume, especially in light of the CPS statement.

[The Coach]

He will end up playing abroad for now. Somewhere like Turkey or Greece to restart his career until he gets a move somewhere inland Europe

[Fordy62]

16 minutes ago, TheReds said:

That recording didn't seem to prove there was any rape though did it? If it did he would have been tried in court. 

If it also had more than 99% than other rape cases have then it shows exactly why the conviction rate is low, it is just so hard to prove.

The recording provided excellent evidence for attempted rape - which was what he was charged with. I’m guessing that particular sexual intercourse didn’t happen - otherwise it would have been rape. 

[luke_bristol]

I hope he never gets a club or girlfriend ever again, but I expect he’ll get both. They might even be his current club and girlfriend. 

[Rocky]

1 hour ago, BS3_RED said:

He has NOT been prosecuted. He has a right to earn a living. Morals has nothing to do with it. 

He does have a right to earn. However football is watched and adored by millions of children, who will assume his behaviour is acceptable. Just because he has had his charges dropped, doesn’t mean he’s 100% innocent, he probably has/had the best lawyers in the land. 

[Super]

There doesn't seem to be much support from Man U fans for him to play for them again.

[Winterstoke toad]

Him getting away with it is disappointing but so is the fact she’s been back with him for a while now .

[SinéadB]

I believe he's back with her now. After that shocking statement from her dad last year, I'm maybe not surprised. 

Who knows whether it's up to her or not.

[Fordy62]

1 minute ago, SinéadB said:

I believe he's back with her now. After that shocking statement from her dad last year, I'm maybe not surprised. 

Who knows whether it's up to her or not.

I recall something about the dad but I couldn’t remember what. 

A double ACL tear would go down nicely now. 

[BS3_RED]

5 minutes ago, Winterstoke toad said:

Him getting away with it is disappointing but so is the fact she’s been back with him for a while now .

Apparently that was why he was re arrested last year as he was in breach of his bail conditions as she had allegedly moved back in with him

[SinéadB]

2 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

I recall something about the dad but I couldn’t remember what. 

A double ACL tear would go down nicely now.