The conundrum that is Naismith

[Numero Uno]

1 hour ago, sinenomine said:

If Vyner had played like Naismith did today OTIB would have already exploded. 

People can say what they like but Vyner was the only defender who turned up today. Atkinson and Naismith were 90 minutes of accident waiting to happen.

[pongo88]

52 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Poor today but Sykes had a real shocker.

Even bigger worry was Wilson came on & looked to be really struggling as well, lost his man several times & didn’t look comfortable at all.

On this basis Tanner looks more likely to get a go.

The second goal was a perfect example. QPR took a free kick to their No. 7 on the left wing, who was completely unmarked, and he set up the goal. Sykes was nowhere near him as he seemed to think he was as playing as a winger. He forgets he’s got to defend  

[BITW]

Decent footballer. Bang average defender (at best.) 

[Numero Uno]

Just now, BITW said:

Decent footballer. Bang average defender (at best.) 

The very first time Naismith received the ball (first minute) Roberts sprinted at him. It’s obvious what oppo Managers are doing. If he was making the odd mistake he might get away with it but he’s being earmarked as a real weakness to get after.

[GrahamC]

8 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

The second goal was a perfect example. QPR took a free kick to their No. 7 on the left wing, who was completely unmarked, and he set up the goal. Sykes was nowhere near him as he seemed to think he was as playing as a winger. He forgets he’s got to defend  

Been good so far but a real off day today.

Started poorly, too far forward early on leaving Vyner with two to mark, then wasted two opportunities to get a cross in.

Bound to have better days than this.

 

[joe jordans teeth]

26 minutes ago, Johnr1986 said:

He is a liability, and has cost many times now , I hope he is the one to make way when Kalas is back fit! 

I’ve almost forgot who played in our defence last season when we were conceding goals galore as well 

[Shuffle]

Naismith can certainly play but has to learn a role that he is still new to as too many risks.  His decision making has been horrendous but offset by goal contributions & ironically a great defensive display v Cardiff & Luton.  You can get away with it when getting results as gets masked but today he was horrendous as made constant mistakes when doing even the basics. Problem in that no squad depth gives us any options to change at the back.  
 

Sykes and Weimann were really poor today and Williams struggled.  One of those days as could keep going through the team.

[Baldyman]

We played such a high line today it was ridiculous at times . If you’ve got a quick mobile back 3 you can get away with it but we haven’t . We must adapt our system or we really will get picked off by the whole top half of this division ! Naismith , Vyner and Atkinson are being chucked under a bus due to our system at the moment and I feel for them a bit tbh ! 

Edited October 1, 2022 by Baldyman
Additional

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, Shuffle said:

Naismith can certainly play but has to learn a role that he is still new to as too many risks.  His decision making has been horrendous but offset by goal contributions & ironically a great defensive display v Cardiff & Luton.  You can get away with it when getting results as gets masked but today he was horrendous as made constant mistakes when doing even the basics. Problem in that no squad depth gives us any options to change at the back.  
 

Sykes and Weimann were really poor today and Williams struggled.  One of those days as could keep going through the team.

Spot on mate.

What makes me smile are those who describe Matty James as mediocre, because boy do we miss him when he doesn’t play.

Tuesday will be interesting, Scott is suspended now & Semenyo aside none of the subs really pressed their case, but might be worth looking at a further change.

Doubt it will happen but I’d give Tanner a go, having another defender on the pitch who can actually defend would be a real plus at the moment.

[Robbored]

6 minutes ago, Baldyman said:

We played such a high line today it was ridiculous at times . If you’ve got a quick mobile back 3 you can get away with it but we haven’t . We must adapt our system or we really will get picked off by the whole top half of this division ! Naismith , Vyner and Atkinson are being chucked under a bus due to our system at the moment and I feel for them a bit tbh ! 

Excellent point  Baldyman - I was thinking exactly the same and as the game progressed it seemed as if was just a matter of time before QPR were outta sight - they should/could have been 5 up at the break. It was only poor finishing that let us off. 0-2 at ht flattered us.

Its been a while since lost three back to back and that puts more pressure on City to get a result on Tuesday night,

[Super]

2 hours ago, Shuffle said:

Naismith can certainly play but has to learn a role that he is still new to as too many risks.  His decision making has been horrendous but offset by goal contributions & ironically a great defensive display v Cardiff & Luton.  You can get away with it when getting results as gets masked but today he was horrendous as made constant mistakes when doing even the basics. Problem in that no squad depth gives us any options to change at the back.  
 

Sykes and Weimann were really poor today and Williams struggled.  One of those days as could keep going through the team.

Williams has been a huge disappointment.

[spudski]

Do you question Naismith or do you question NP?

It's obvious Kai is being asked to play the way he does.

Look at the stats.

His passes per game are massively more than the rest of the team.

As last man, with that much responsibility it's bound to go wrong.

When Kalas is back, maybe Kai playing in Matty James role would be less of a ' problem'.

Sadly that situation will be too late to make a difference in the league.

Imo...he plays like a ball playing Defensive Midfielder...not a CB that's last man.

[Dredd]

2 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Doubt it will happen but I’d give Tanner a go, having another defender on the pitch who can actually defend would be a real plus at the moment.

I’d be more than happy to see Tanner get some pitch time. Have seen absolutely nothing out of Wilson in the pitch time he has got. You’d think he be chomping at the bit to make an impression but we see the complete opposite. 

[ralphindevon]

I love a lot of what Naismith brings to the team  but boy it must be hard work playing alongside him.

As a fellow defender all you want from him is a quick decisive pass so you’ve time to get the ball away from danger asap.

Time after time Vyner and Atkinson are stood waiting as he takes an extra touch or two before passing by which time you’ve got an opponent breathing down your neck. 

[bcfc01]

5 minutes ago, Dredd said:

I’d be more than happy to see Tanner get some pitch time. Have seen absolutely nothing out of Wilson in the pitch time he has got. You’d think he be chomping at the bit to make an impression but we see the complete opposite. 

Having seen Wilson in pre-season and his cup/cameo appearances, he looks far too weak for this division.

I can see why he's not been playing and his subs appearance today did him no favours imo.

It was disappointing all round today with several players having shockers - Sykes was piss poor, Naismith was slow with the ball, hangs on to it too long with one touch to many, Weimann was anonymous and had no effect on the game, Conway got beaten up and was ineffective  (at least he comes back for more and will learn a lot from the last couple of games), I think Vyner switched off on a few occasions but was very good at other times, Atkinson had a very quiet game, and Williams looked poor for most of the game - been disappointed with him so far this season.

Scott, Dasilva and Wells played well and Bentley was ok apart from his usual dodgy distribution. 

People saying NPs subs were odd, the reality is that the team needed shaking up, we were never in control of that game at any time and it needed a huge shake up and a wake up to some players.

 

[Cityboy1954]

8 hours ago, Robbored said:

We all know that Naismith has a sweet left foot and can take a decent free kick but why oh why does he take corners? Any player can deliver a decent corner and being a CB surely he’d cause more havoc in the actual penalty box? ………..

Agreed

[GrahamC]

9 hours ago, bcfc01 said:

Having seen Wilson in pre-season and his cup/cameo appearances, he looks far too weak for this division.

I can see why he's not been playing and his subs appearance today did him no favours imo.

It was disappointing all round today with several players having shockers - Sykes was piss poor, Naismith was slow with the ball, hangs on to it too long with one touch to many, Weimann was anonymous and had no effect on the game, Conway got beaten up and was ineffective  (at least he comes back for more and will learn a lot from the last couple of games), I think Vyner switched off on a few occasions but was very good at other times, Atkinson had a very quiet game, and Williams looked poor for most of the game - been disappointed with him so far this season.

Scott, Dasilva and Wells played well and Bentley was ok apart from his usual dodgy distribution. 

People saying NPs subs were odd, the reality is that the team needed shaking up, we were never in control of that game at any time and it needed a huge shake up and a wake up to some players.

 

Agree with every word of that.

Exactly how I saw it.

[Sleepy1968]

15 hours ago, Super said:

Even Stephen Pearson could.

Stephen Pearson, the very underrated specialist corner taker you mean

I think it's like anything else - anyone can take a corner if you want the accuracy of a scud missile. If you're looking for anything more then there are certain players who can deliver what you want better than others. Whether you should be too worried about that is another question.

 

[Cityboy1954]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

Agree with every word of that.

Exactly how I saw it.

Just wondering where callum pring is as his final ball across is better than dasilva s surely hes not in the naughty class all this time .

[Alex_BCFC]

Naismith is fast becoming a liability as he can’t identify when he can bring it out and when he can’t. Sadly Vyner we know isn’t good enough for this league. Atkinson who has been the most consistent this season looked well off the pace…injured or unfit maybe. All the above added up to a first half disaster where we could have let in 5. 

[petehinton]

I’d say it’s fairly clear he’s been told (or given license) to basically carry the ball as far as possible, ideally into opposition half, and then we play from there. 
 

What surprised me yesterday, was how surprised we were that QPR didn’t let it happen. We seemed shocked they were pressing with two men the minute Naismith got the ball, and never really seemed to have an idea of what to do. All we needed to do was move the ball quicker, but that’d mean having players being sharp and playing well and we didn’t have that 

[Red-Robbo]

Anyone think Naismith might be more effective in mf?

The Klose/Kalas injuries, Baker retirement and lack of experience of other players in the CD role, means Pearson is more or less forced to play him there.

The return of the "big K's" might allow him to absolve himself for his clangers in a more creative position.

[Taylor10]

13 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

Anyone think Naismith might be more effective in mf?

The Klose/Kalas injuries, Baker retirement and lack of experience of other players in the CD role, means Pearson is more or less forced to play him there.

The return of the "big K's" might allow him to absolve himself for his clangers in a more creative position.

People keep suggesting this RR. 
 

I guess my question would be, other than being good on the ball, what other attributes does he have which make people think he can do this? I’m not convinced myself. 

Edited October 2, 2022 by Taylor10

[Red-Robbo]

5 minutes ago, Taylor10 said:

People keep suggesting this RR. 
 

I guess my question would be, other than being good on the ball, what other attributes does he have which make people think he can do this? I’m not convinced myself. 

 

I suppose, that he slips the ball forward quite well, can dribble (not all BCFC players can), and takes a decent set piece. Certainly, other sides have played him in a more advanced role in the past. 

[GrahamC]

5 minutes ago, Taylor10 said:

People keep suggesting this RR. 
 

I guess my question would be, other than being good on the ball, what other attributes does he have which make people think he can do this? I’m not convinced myself. 

They do, but we definitely signed him to play in the position we are currently using him in & Luton made the playoffs with him their player of the year there.

NP knew Baker’s career was over, that Kalas was going to be missing for a fair while (perhaps not this long) & so this was the plan.

I’d be amazed if we change his position even if Kalas does return.

As has been said above we need to tweak this, be a little less gung ho & maybe compensate by some other better defensive players (like Tanner) in the side around him.

[Taylor10]

3 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

I suppose, that he slips the ball forward quite well, can dribble (not all BCFC players can), and takes a decent set piece. Certainly, other sides have played him in a more advanced role in the past. 

Based on his displays at the back I don’t think he will be anywhere near disciplined enough to play in midfield. I just don’t know what to make of Naismith, I really don’t.
 

As @GrahamC says, I would be very surprised if we go down this route now.

[Red-Robbo]

1 minute ago, Taylor10 said:

Based on his displays at the back I don’t think he will be anywhere near disciplined enough to play in midfield. I just don’t know what to make of Naismith, I really don’t.
 

As @GrahamC says, I would be very surprised if we go down this route now.

 

I agree we have few options now. I can see positives in Naismith's game, so, if we had Kalas & Klose fit as a central defensive unit, I do wonder if midfield might be tried.  Hopefully, it would be a more of a Sergio Ramos experiment than a Richard Foster one!  

Ultimately, you could see yesterday confidence drained away from the back line after that first goal, and when you get nervous about the players around you, you make mistakes.

As I've said elsewhere, I'd like to see a player who can establish a proper defensive screen in front of the central defenders. James is as near as we've got to that IMO, but of course, was unavailable yesterday. 

[A Horse With No Name]

4 hours ago, Cityboy1954 said:

Just wondering where callum pring is as his final ball across is better than dasilva s surely hes not in the naughty class all this time .

Is that a new signing? Must be a relative of Cameron.

Edited October 2, 2022 by CrackingCheeseGromit

[LondonBristolian]

I think the bottom line is that it is a brilliant idea to pick Naismith in games we've just won and a terrible idea to pick him in games we've just lost. All we need to do is know the result in advance and we're sorted! 

[Offside]

We were horribly exposed at times yesterday in the first half - QPR exploited our lack of pace at the back. 

As for Naismith, what worries me the most is sometimes his passes are so easily cut out (like the one that led to Norwich’s second goal) and then there is a gaping hole. This is part of a wider problem. If Naismith is going to surge forward, someone has to cover him. Also yesterday it was most of the team’s bad passing that got us into trouble - I think is was a poor pass from Weimann that was intercepted in the build up to their first goal. Our decision making has to be better.