Nige - post match.

[maxjak]

2 hours ago, Cityboy1954 said:

Both had bad games weinmann not played well for a while also id question the goalkeeping not commanding his box and flapping .

Bentley seems to me to be an excellent shot stopper, but is so, SO vulnerable on crosses?  I admit that i am stating the bleedin' obvious, but it is such a definite weakness in his game, which is why Brentford got rid?  Shot stopper 8/10  Commanding his area 5/10  Dealing with crosses 3/10.

[Son of Fred]

14 hours ago, Edgy Red said:

I'm sat on that fence with you. The squad lacks physicality and that has been blindly obvious for at least 2 years.

For what its worth i think Vyner has done OK in the last half a dozen games but he isn't good enough if we want to progress. Atkinson has got ability and can compete physically but the squad overall lacks players that can physically compete. Nige has had more than enough time to sort us out defensively.

Alex Scott is 19 and puts himself about, but we don't have enough knowhow in key areas.

I completely understand where we are financially but sadly this is going to be another tough season.

Pring certainly adds a bit of muscle...

Tanner no shrinking violet.

Get to a back four asap.

[Davefevs]

10 minutes ago, Son of Fred said:

Pring certainly adds a bit of muscle...

I thought he did himself no harm yesterday when he came on.

[Henry]

11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I thought he did himself no harm yesterday when he came on.

He was far better on the ball than Jay. However he should be doing better on the 3rd goal.

[Real Mad Red]

Cam' dropped off some more boots for stud conversion on Thursday, perhaps he h' has had the nod, he seemed pretty positive.

[Numero Uno]

15 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

Re Han….

I’ve made my thoughts on him clear before. There’s something there, but there isn’t enough. If he was Henry Moore from Crewe, he wouldn’t get nearly the slack he does - he’s played 100 games at this level and has dominated maybe two? Then compare and contrast with the younger/less experienced Scott - who I know is an exception in a lot of cases.

He’s leaving in the summer, no doubt. And it’s because he probably thinks he’s worth more than he actually is. I don’t think it was a lack of effort today necessarily - it’s more that he isn’t actually that good and hasn’t moved on and developed since the day we signed him.

For someone who clearly wants to piss off he’s had a lot of minutes this season, more than he deserves and only due to injuries tbh, and as far as I’m concerned isn’t doing it. HNM is a player we need to offload, if he does it elsewhere good luck to him, because what he’s given us over the last 18 months isn’t even close to what it should be as a player with the amount of game time he has under his belt.

When you compare the trajectory of Scott with HNM its chalk and cheese.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Real Mad Red said:

Cam' dropped off some more boots for stud conversion on Thursday, perhaps he h' has had the nod, he seemed pretty positive.

What’s stud conversion, I guess he’s lost that little spanner that was in the box.

[Sheltons Army]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

What’s stud conversion, I guess he’s lost that little spanner that was in the box.

A ‘stud conversion’ is nowt to do with football boots Dave

More of a ‘small medical procedure’

 

 

On a serious note - as a kid , getting some new boots for Xmas , the smell and that shiny new spanner !

Happy days

[Sleepy1968]

29 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

A ‘stud conversion’ is nowt to do with football boots Dave

More of a ‘small medical procedure’

Sounds to me like it should involve a horse with a pained expression. But c'mon @Real Mad Red don't leave us dangling.

[Cityboy1954]

3 hours ago, maxjak said:

Bentley seems to me to be an excellent shot stopper, but is so, SO vulnerable on crosses?  I admit that i am stating the bleedin' obvious, but it is such a definite weakness in his game, which is why Brentford got rid?  Shot stopper 8/10  Commanding his area 5/10  Dealing with crosses 3/10.

Yes mate exactly thats why prem teams have not come in for him .

[Street red]

7 hours ago, SouthS22 said:

We were bloody awful but Pearson has to take some of the blame for that.  He’s the one who’s selection had ‘going to get beaten by set pieces’ written all over it.  And guess what, because we had no one apart from Atkinson, who can win defensive headers in that starting line up,we got beat by set plays.  That first goal after 5 mins set the tone for the game and yes there were some seriously underperforming players out there, but the manger has got to to stick his own hand up here and say ‘I wasn’t good enough today’, and I ‘have to set the team up . better to play the opposition we are facing’, especially against such an obviously physical side like Brum.  He also needs to recognise that much more work is needed on the training ground on defending set play routines because we continue to ship goals through them.  
 

Yes, great, NP gets plaudits for telling it like it is, but I’m not sure that’s the whole picture he’s relating there. I seriously hope he realises that he also messed up yesterday big time. Rather than just blaming the players, have a good look at yourself too Mt Pearson, and what you can do better. 

Didn't he take the blame? Thought that's what he said after the game,He does say it how it is but he also knows its his own squad to a certain degree he accepts those players that he didn't sign as his players and I honestly don't why people think it's just players he's blaming.which to me it is and it's players that been signed previous that's the problem.

[real_bristol]

I definitely feel better hearing Nige’s post match. He’s taking responsibility, not sure his subs were the best but I’m glad we have a character like Nige in the dressing room to shake some of the “passengers” out of it. All things considered getting rid of him now would not be the best financially.

[Prime]

On 08/10/2022 at 20:35, petehinton said:

I thought him taking Massengo off for Kadji was more of a statement to Han, rather than Kadji improving us. Massengo was awful and shying away, could’ve easily have put Klose on at CB and move King to CM but didn’t. 
 

Can agree with him re HT subs because Martin and Semenyo basically had to come on to try and change style considering the first half style was so bad. 
 

All the bashing of Vyner has purely got to be personal vendettas, or just didn’t watch the game. Part of a very poor defence but certainly no stand out compared to the others. 

I Massengo was one of the players he was most disappointed with and agree that the sub was a statement to Massengo.

I know Pearson made reference to the team making too many passes back to the keeper but I think he was remembering one particular back pass from Massengo - I think it was from our own corner in the first half. Massengo received the cleared corner on the edge of the box, whilst he was right not to shoot or loft it back in to the box himself, he had to recycle it out wide for another phase of that attack; instead he inexplicably decided to pass it all the way back to take the pressure off.

[SouthS22]

7 hours ago, Street red said:

Didn't he take the blame? Thought that's what he said after the game,He does say it how it is but he also knows its his own squad to a certain degree he accepts those players that he didn't sign as his players and I honestly don't why people think it's just players he's blaming.which to me it is and it's players that been signed previous that's the problem.

I didn’t think so, not  really no.  He said He would take responsibility but then proceeded to blame it all on the players by saying he was going to have very strong words to say to them.  We need more from him than that. Culture change on its own is not enough.  It needs to be backed with sound strategy and tactics and while he seems to seem to have a decent plan A, plans  b, c and d all need a lot more work.  

[cidered abroad]

7 hours ago, Prime said:

I Massengo was one of the players he was most disappointed with and agree that the sub was a statement to Massengo.

I know Pearson made reference to the team making too many passes back to the keeper but I think he was remembering one particular back pass from Massengo - I think it was from our own corner in the first half. Massengo received the cleared corner on the edge of the box, whilst he was right not to shoot or loft it back in to the box himself, he had to recycle it out wide for another phase of that attack; instead he inexplicably decided to pass it all the way back to take the pressure off.

It is still one of our biggest negatives, that we take the easy option of passing back to Bentley from almost anywhere on the pitch. Then followed by a high, long and extremely hopeful clearance by aforesaid keeper. Immediately followed by an attack by opponents.

For me, this is a negative in modern football that seems to be utterly crazy.

[Real Mad Red]

Guys, it's basically that my youngest son has a number of football boot related businesses -

# One that customises footbal boots colour, tongue customisation and stud converswions a lot of the pro's such as Cam' like to have a combination sole with a moulded boot and screw-ins replacing those on the heel and centre of the sole.

# One a subscription service for junior players boots providing a supply of boots to accomodate the growth of young feet.

# One a retails business for new boots including a number of high end ones directly from the Pro's who sell on their surplus.

These are nice little businesses, Cam' is just one customer who just happens to drop off and collect from our place as it is on his way into the HPC.

[Robbored]

44 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

It is still one of our biggest negatives, that we take the easy option of passing back to Bentley from almost anywhere on the pitch. Then followed by a high, long and extremely hopeful clearance by aforesaid keeper. Immediately followed by an attack by opponents.

For me, this is a negative in modern football that seems to be utterly crazy.

I remember Kieth Millen doing exactly the same. I used to cringe when he had possession in the City D and then just just lumped it up the pitch. and that was 20+ years ago so it’s not modern at all.

[Davefevs]

54 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

It is still one of our biggest negatives, that we take the easy option of passing back to Bentley from almost anywhere on the pitch. Then followed by a high, long and extremely hopeful clearance by aforesaid keeper. Immediately followed by an attack by opponents.

For me, this is a negative in modern football that seems to be utterly crazy.

What we have seen this season, and it’s a big difference from last season is that when Bentley does get the ball back, we might start a new passing phase…because we now have Naismith.  Obviously that didn’t happen v Brum.  It’s not a complete change, we still go back and then “boot it” too often as you say.

I still don’t know why we didn’t launch a few long throws on Saturday, we showed little capability to keep possession from throws when we did get into their final 25 yards.

[SouthS22]

9 hours ago, billywedlock said:

What a weird interpretation. He clearly takes responsibility , and when we were doing well was happy to leave it to the players. He is hardly going to put the Brum performance right by talking to himself. What plans b/c, and d do you want with our squad. This is fantasy football nonsense with little reference to reality. The rollercoaster will not end soon either, next summer will see our best young players leave, and 6/7 other seniors depart. The mess we have been navigating is far from over, much as people want to brush it under the carpet. Understandable, as it started years ago, long before Pearson, so the pain has been long.  But avoiding the normal return to L1 before we rebuild is a success of sorts. In any case, this season is far from over, and there are many ups and downs to come. 

How is that a wierd interpretation?  Though he says he is taking responsiblity, in the next breath he's very clearly blaming the attitude of the players.  The fact that he says hes going to be having some pretty straight conversations is good to an extent, but I don't agree that attitude was the main factor.  The bigger issue for me was how he set the team up, which he is either not recognising or not taking responsibillity for.  To improve that, he needs to 'have a word with himself' (which is  saying btw, not to be taken literally).  Brum did us in pretty much the same way last year, and that was comprehensive too, so it  should have been fairly clear that we needed physical presence in the team and players who can compete in the air so that we weren't so vulnerable from set pieces.  Instead, he went again with his plan A, which is to see who played well from the last game, rinse and repeat (hint; also a saying, not to be taken literally).  That has its merits, but I think its a bit limited and I think that we'd really benefit from a greater amount of tactical and strategic nous from him and his coaching team- a plan b, c and d in team selection, set up and tactics. 

What does plan B look like given our limited resources?  For me, it means at least selecting the right players, in their natural positions as far as possible, who can stand up to the challenge presented by the opposition, and who are in the matchday squad because they also have the abillity to play a version of how he wants the team to play (which I like by the way).  We needed for example King in midfield rather than Massengo; Klose, Pring and perhaps Tanner at the back or maybe all 3,  Martin to add physical presence both up front and at set pieces, combined with Semenyo to unsettle their defenders.  Unfortunately, he only recognised that at half time when we were 2-0 down - to goals from set pieces!     

I know that we are short of resources and that the squad is thin, but I don't think its fantasy foottball to expect a team to be coached and set up to defend well, especially set pieces.   You and I will probbably disagree here, and you may (perhaps fairly) level the fantasy football charge at me for this reason, but I think we have an opportunity right now this season to build some momentum and do something decent while we still have some of the talent we do on our books.  I am hopeful that we still can, but for that to happen I think we need to be able to both play the possession based attacking football that has been so good to watch at times this season AND the physical atttritiional battling football at which we always seem to get beat, and some differnt variations in between - the a, b, c, d, etc.        

  

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, SouthS22 said:

How is that a wierd interpretation?  Though he says he is taking responsiblity, in the next breath he's very clearly blaming the attitude of the players.  The fact that he says hes going to be having some pretty straight conversations is good to an extent, but I don't agree that attitude was the main factor.  The bigger issue for me was how he set the team up, which he is either not recognising or not taking responsibillity for.  To improve that, he needs to 'have a word with himself' (which is  saying btw, not to be taken literally).  Brum did us in pretty much the same way last year, and that was comprehensive too, so it  should have been fairly clear that we needed physical presence in the team and players who can compete in the air so that we weren't so vulnerable from set pieces.  Instead, he went again with his plan A, which is to see who played well from the last game, rinse and repeat (hint; also a saying, not to be taken literally).  That has its merits, but I think its a bit limited and I think that we'd really benefit from a greater amount of tactical and strategic nous from him and his coaching team- a plan b, c and d in team selection, set up and tactics. 

What does plan B look like given our limited resources?  For me, it means at least selecting the right players, in their natural positions as far as possible, who can stand up to the challenge presented by the opposition, and who are in the matchday squad because they also have the abillity to play a version of how he wants the team to play (which I like by the way).  We needed for example King in midfield rather than Massengo; Klose, Pring and perhaps Tanner at the back or maybe all 3,  Martin to add physical presence both up front and at set pieces, combined with Semenyo to unsettle their defenders.  Unfortunately, he only recognised that at half time when we were 2-0 down - to goals from set pieces!     

I know that we are short of resources and that the squad is thin, but I don't think its fantasy foottball to expect a team to be coached and set up to defend well, especially set pieces.   You and I will probbably disagree here, and you may (perhaps fairly) level the fantasy football charge at me for this reason, but I think we have an opportunity right now this season to build some momentum and do something decent while we still have some of the talent we do on our books.  I am hopeful that we still can, but for that to happen I think we need to be able to both play the possession based attacking football that has been so good to watch at times this season AND the physical atttritiional battling football at which we always seem to get beat, and some differnt variations in between - the a, b, c, d, etc.        

  

I get the sentiments of what you’re saying, but my “general” challenge back would be - if you constantly try to match up the opposition how do you ever get to play your own game.

One of my old managers said that often the tone is set in the opening 5 minutes, make sure you win your early challenges (not be crude either), make your opponent know you’re about, even in an attacking sense, make your first touch / pass a good one.  On Saturday we certainly set the tone, unfortunately it was a bad one. 

FWIW I didn’t think it was a particular physical, nor direct Brum team.  But they applied themselves very well and were very committed.  It coincided with us being the exact opposite…or to give them credit, they forced us to be crap.  They were happy to commit petty fouls, destroy any attempt for us to build a rhythm, Scott targeted, but ref not willing to punish the cynical nature of their play.  For a brief moment around the half hour mark at 1-0 down I thought Brum were starting to get a bit edgy that they’d not created much against a crap City, and that we’d start to gain ascendency.  The goal before h-t killed us.  That’s the frustrating part.  1-0 start of second half and I reckon they might be very worried, as it was they had a cushion and despite an early flurry they then played some decent stuff.

[chinapig]

1 hour ago, billywedlock said:

"We all have to be accountable on our part. I'm the manager so ultimately it falls with me"

The word accountable as distinct from responsible is important here I think.

The manager is ultimately accountable - he is the one who will be sacked after all - but the players are individually and collectively responsible for their performance in any given game.

For instance if Nigel and his coaches show the players what they should do, say, when defending corners and they don't do it who is responsible?

So criticising them for not meeting their responsibilities is perfectly reasonable and not an attempt at avoiding accountability.

[Robbored]

7 minutes ago, chinapig said:

The word accountable as distinct from responsible is important here I think.

The manager is ultimately accountable - he is the one who will be sacked after all - but the players are individually and collectively responsible for their performance in any given game.

For instance if Nigel and his coaches show the players what they should do, say, when defending corners and they don't do it who is responsible?

So criticising them for not meeting their responsibilities is perfectly reasonable and not an attempt at avoiding accountability.

Excellent post Chinapig. 

[maxjak]

It's now 6.20 on Tuesday evening.....has anyone seen or heard today's Pre Preston Press conference from NP and Sykes, if so, I would love to hear what they had to say?  I guess an apology from the entire squad after    Saturday's joke performance would be just too much to ask?   Though i guess actions most definitely speak louder than empty promises.....so it is now all about tomorrow night's pefrormance?

[Davefevs]

Just now, maxjak said:

It's now 6.20 on Tuesday evening.....has anyone seen or heard today's Pre Preston Press conference from NP and Sykes, if so, I would love to hear what they had to say?  I guess an apology from the entire squad after    Saturday's joke performance would be just too much to ask?   Though i guess actions most definitely speak louder than empty promises.....so it is now all about tomorrow night's pefrormance?

Have you watched both?

(im listening to Nige as I type)

[maxjak]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Have you watched both?

(im listening to Nige as I type)

Sorry Dave........where can i watch or hear it please?......Edit:.Update, now watching NP on main site , I guess Sykes will appear later?      

Edited October 11, 2022 by maxjak

[SouthS22]

On 10/10/2022 at 17:58, Davefevs said:

I get the sentiments of what you’re saying, but my “general” challenge back would be - if you constantly try to match up the opposition how do you ever get to play your own game.

One of my old managers said that often the tone is set in the opening 5 minutes, make sure you win your early challenges (not be crude either), make your opponent know you’re about, even in an attacking sense, make your first touch / pass a good one.  On Saturday we certainly set the tone, unfortunately it was a bad one. 

FWIW I didn’t think it was a particular physical, nor direct Brum team.  But they applied themselves very well and were very committed.  It coincided with us being the exact opposite…or to give them credit, they forced us to be crap.  They were happy to commit petty fouls, destroy any attempt for us to build a rhythm, Scott targeted, but ref not willing to punish the cynical nature of their play.  For a brief moment around the half hour mark at 1-0 down I thought Brum were starting to get a bit edgy that they’d not created much against a crap City, and that we’d start to gain ascendency.  The goal before h-t killed us.  That’s the frustrating part.  1-0 start of second half and I reckon they might be very worried, as it was they had a cushion and despite an early flurry they then played some decent stuff.

From where I was sitting they looked bigger, stronger, better in the air, much better organised AND more committed.  They had a clear plan to stop us from playing, while playing to their own strengths.  They bullied us in the key areas of the pitch and exploited our weaknesses.  We were pretty comprehensively beaten, again, same as last year, by a pretty average side. 
  
I get what you are saying about playing our own game, and I do see positives in what he is trying to do in that regard.  He’s set us up to play an attractive attacking style of football.  While it would be great to be able to dictate our style of play on other teams, however, unfortunately we’re not good enough to do that.  I think we have to go with variations of the way we want to play (plan b, c, d etc), accounting for the opposition.  I know it’s easy to say in hindsight after a game what should have been done, but my criticism is that he just sticks with his plan A, and as some other teams have now worked us out, that’s not going to be enough. 

[Davefevs]

17 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Sorry Dave........where can i watch or hear it please?......Edit:.Update, now watching NP on main site , I guess Sykes will appear later?      

Youtube

[petehinton]

I could be wildly out here, but based on those comments & his post match comments Saturday, I really think we could see Bajic replace Bentley sometime soon

[Offside]

30 minutes ago, petehinton said:

I could be wildly out here, but based on those comments & his post match comments Saturday, I really think we could see Bajic replace Bentley sometime soon

I thought the same. 

[maxjak]

50 minutes ago, petehinton said:

I could be wildly out here, but based on those comments & his post match comments Saturday, I really think we could see Bajic replace Bentley sometime soon

I think Bentley's a very good shot stopper, but that's not enough..........we need a keeper  who can command his area, come out and claim cross's, and be good with his feet.    Now i know that is asking a lot.  But hopefully Bajic could be an upgrade on Bentley, only time will tell?  Whoever it is, IMHO we need to either replace Bentley, or at least give him a serious challenger?