Lee Johnson

[Ron W]

Sacking LJ was the right decision at the time with the run we had been on, the rhetoric from him about how we would fly out of the blocks and then what transpired at Blackburn. It wasn't solely based on that one game and the fact he has remained as streaky as ever since leaving us doesn't do anything to suggest we missed a trick.

On the black-and-white scale he's probably as grey a manager as we've had. There were highs, real highs, but not GJ-esque enough to paper over the lows at either end of his stint. He wasn't a terrible manager for us by any means but neither was he anywhere near one of our best. But he managed to reach that mediocrity by having some of the best, and the worst, runs of recent times. He's a really curious case and that's been the same at Sunderland and Hibs, watching from a distance.

Edited June 5, 2023 by Ron W

[italian dave]

10 hours ago, Ron W said:

Sacking LJ was the right decision at the time with the run we had been on, the rhetoric from him about how we would fly out of the blocks and then what transpired at Blackburn. 

But the point I’m making above is that there was a lot more (unexpectedly) going on that we seem to have taken no account of.

You’ve put the decision purely in the footballing context (the run we’d been on). And I wouldn’t argue with that.

But we were in the relatively early stages of the pandemic, with huge uncertainty hanging over football, and I just question whether (in hindsight) that was the right time to plunge us into even further uncertainty - especially since we clearly had no credible plan b in place.

Did the pandemic not matter at all in that decision? 

[Ron W]

14 minutes ago, italian dave said:

But the point I’m making above is that there was a lot more (unexpectedly) going on that we seem to have taken no account of.

You’ve put the decision purely in the footballing context (the run we’d been on). And I wouldn’t argue with that.

But we were in the relatively early stages of the pandemic, with huge uncertainty hanging over football, and I just question whether (in hindsight) that was the right time to plunge us into even further uncertainty - especially since we clearly had no credible plan b in place.

Did the pandemic not matter at all in that decision? 

Right, I get what you mean - but still think we should judge him from a footballing perspective personally…

The pandemic was a factor outside his or BCFC’s control so did he deserve more time because of that?

If we hadn’t made a real mess of appointing his replacement, surely we wouldn’t be having this debate either. So was that not the issue rather than whether or not we kept LJ?

[italian dave]

4 minutes ago, Ron W said:

Right, I get what you mean - but still think we should judge him from a footballing perspective personally…

The pandemic was a factor outside his or BCFC’s control so did he deserve more time because of that?

If we hadn’t made a real mess of appointing his replacement, surely we wouldn’t be having this debate either. So was that not the issue rather than whether or not we kept LJ?

I’m not saying that he deserved more time: it’s more about the club than about an individual and I just wonder whether, as a club, we shot ourselves in the foot by adding to the chaos that was unfolding around us.

I don’t think you can disregard non footballing factors, especially when they are as massive as the pandemic was for football. 

And, yes, agree that the mess around his replacement contributed…but again that could have been avoided by hanging on with him in place and getting a proper plan b in place.

I’d hasten to say that I’m suggesting all this with the massive benefit of hindsight! At the time I wasn’t particularly surprised or upset - although I think I probably hoped that we had a replacement lined up. But it’s just that I’ve often wondered since where we’d have ended up if we had hung in there for a little longer.

 

[Portland Bill]

On 05/06/2023 at 10:40, Riaz said:

You must have missed alot of football then. Pulis days? Russell Osman days?

They weren’t good either, but Pulis and Osman didn’t have the luxury of spending the massive amount of money Johnson was able too.

I think it was four transfer windows he said he needed?. Whereas he was actually doing alright until he let all of Cotterill’s players go and bought his own in!. He was given all the riches, and dismally failed. 
I actually quite liked him as a player, as a manager he ended up sending me to sleep!. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Portland Bill said:

Whereas he was actually doing alright until he let all of Cotterill’s players go and bought his own in!.

I liken this to Michael J Fox’s photo in Back To The Future!  As each 14/15 winner left, Michael “LJ” Fox became a bit weaker.

[Riaz]

8 hours ago, Portland Bill said:

They weren’t good either, but Pulis and Osman didn’t have the luxury of spending the massive amount of money Johnson was able too.

I think it was four transfer windows he said he needed?. Whereas he was actually doing alright until he let all of Cotterill’s players go and bought his own in!. He was given all the riches, and dismally failed. 
I actually quite liked him as a player, as a manager he ended up sending me to sleep!. 

As i explained in earlier posts - he kept having to sell his best players throughout his time and he was always spending the transfer money that had come in - so i'd argue he didnt actually spend money!

Moreover - the team that beat man utd and pushed champions man city all the way - is the best city team i've ever seen. Watch the highlights of the first man city game. That team was class.

 

[Rob k]

1 hour ago, Riaz said:

As i explained in earlier posts - he kept having to sell his best players throughout his time and he was always spending the transfer money that had come in - so i'd argue he didnt actually spend money!

Moreover - the team that beat man utd and pushed champions man city all the way - is the best city team i've ever seen. Watch the highlights of the first man city game. That team was class.

 

Of the team that played the 2nd leg i reckon only Scott, Pring and Vyner would get in that team from the current one.

It’s tough to see how far we fell from that position, Lansdown took his eye off the ball and it’s caused mayhem.

Edited June 7, 2023 by Rob k

[Riaz]

21 minutes ago, Rob k said:

Of the team that played the 2nd leg i reckon only Scott, Pring and Vyner would get in that team from the current one.

It’s tough to see how far we fell from that position, Lansdown took his eye off the ball and it’s caused mayhem.

I think changing the policy from signing young hungry players to attempting to go for it a bit, is where we went wrong.

We sold Flint Bryan and Reid the same summer and started signing slightly older players on high wages - that was a mistake IMO

 

[italian dave]

38 minutes ago, Rob k said:

Of the team that played the 2nd leg i reckon only Scott, Pring and Vyner would get in that team from the current one.

It’s tough to see how far we fell from that position, Lansdown took his eye off the ball and it’s caused mayhem.

 

15 minutes ago, Riaz said:

I think changing the policy from signing young hungry players to attempting to go for it a bit, is where we went wrong.

We sold Flint Bryan and Reid the same summer and started signing slightly older players on high wages - that was a mistake IMO

 

I think that where we also took the eye off the ball was in allowing the financial imperatives to take precedence over the footballing ones.

We all knew that we were having to balance the two - making the top 6 whilst also making the club self sufficient, which meant buying players cheap, developing them and selling them at the height of their value. 

Early on, we did well with players like Kelly and Kodjia: we maximised value but we did so in the knowledge that we had a plan B in place on the pitch.

Towards the end we failed on the footballing front. We might have maximised value from Webster and Brownhill, but we did so with no plan B in place at all. 

I’d love to know how we’d have got on that season if we’d kept both those players. There’s no doubt in my mind that they left massive gaps. 

[beaverface]

24 minutes ago, Riaz said:

I think changing the policy from signing young hungry players to attempting to go for it a bit, is where we went wrong.

We sold Flint Bryan and Reid the same summer and started signing slightly older players on high wages - that was a mistake IMO

 

Was that the summer when LJ was coming out with quotes saying he needs backing to take us to the next level?

[TonyTonyTony]

Losing Josh Brownhill in that January window killed off LJ. Selling off his best players every year combined with poor recruitment would kill any manager, particularly in the Championship where there is a massive gap in finances from the haves (parachute payment receivers) and the have nots. 

[Fordy62]

Must. Not. Enter. Debate. 

[Fordy62]

Edit: **** it. I can’t help it.

Already showing signs of this…

Every successful incoming/outgoing: Well done LJ - absolute masterclass.

Every unsuccessful incoming/outgoing: Dam you Ashton. Horrible toad. 

Edited June 7, 2023 by Fordy62

[Riaz]

Just now, Fordy62 said:

Already showing signs of this…

Every successful incoming/outgoing: Well done LJ - absolute masterclass.

Every unsuccessful incoming/outgoing: Dam you Ashton. Horrible toad. 

Well I give credit to both for the first half of their stint.

And think they are both at fault for how it downhill south after.

[Davefevs]

Fordy Willpower levels!

[Riaz]

40 minutes ago, beaverface said:

Was that the summer when LJ was coming out with quotes saying he needs backing to take us to the next level?

Yes!

[italian dave]

33 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Edit: **** it. I can’t help it.

Already showing signs of this…

Every successful incoming/outgoing: Well done LJ - absolute masterclass.

Every unsuccessful incoming/outgoing: Dam you Ashton. Horrible toad. 

Of course that’s ridiculous. (Not that I’m aware of anyone on here who holds quite such an extreme view).

It’s just as ridiculous as “LJ was a complete disaster and never did anything good in his whole time with us”. (Of which there are one or two!)

LJ had his strengths and his weaknesses. He gave us good times as well as bad. Just like any manager has.

Ashton had his strengths too: he was more adept at cashing in on our assets than anyone else I can remember. (Although he was a horrible toad too!)

But (my view) the dynamics have to work, the competing objectives have to work, and for their last year or two together (Johnson and Ashton) they didn’t. And SL didn’t seem to be able to sort that out and (for example) be clear that ultimately LJs footballing objectives had to take priority over the financial objectives.

LJ once talked about writing a book one day about what was going on behind the scenes - and there was lots of speculation about what he meant. My money is that much of it was about that conflict. 

 

[Lrrr]

One of the main downfalls of LJ/MA as a pair was that they had different attitudes to signing players, LJ naturally wanted players that would get us to the play offs, MA wanted players we could sell for profit and therefore they’re never truly aligned in their aims, it caused us to sign too many players Szmodics, Eisa etc where LJ never truly wanted them but still meant we had to sign more for the ones who he did want. 

[Major Isewater]

On 05/06/2023 at 10:51, Davefevs said:

Fair.

We had a right mixed bag under Lee…good and bad.  But his bad spell still wasnt as bad as other manager’s bad spells.

So Lee even misses out on being the best ‘ worst manager.’

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

Lee Johnson was an OK manager or rather coach.  It's the people above him who screwed the wage structure up, and then appointed his assistant after a rigorous process.  

[Davefevs]

39 minutes ago, italian dave said:

But (my view) the dynamics have to work, the competing objectives have to work, and for their last year or two together (Johnson and Ashton) they didn’t. And SL didn’t seem to be able to sort that out and (for example) be clear that ultimately LJs footballing objectives had to take priority over the financial objectives.

LJ once talked about writing a book one day about what was going on behind the scenes - and there was lots of speculation about what he meant. My money is that much of it was about that conflict. 

 

Lot of sense in that

[GrahamC]

Lost 2-1 today to an Andorran side in the preliminary round of the Europa Conference league.

Firstly I can never recall a side from Andorra winning any game in Europe & secondly their subs included Jojo Wollacott (who will get his chance soon based on the error made by their keeper) & Jamie McAllister’s son.

[BritAbroad]

Wonder how much longer they will give LJ.

[petehinton]

Hibernian have just lost their ECL qualifier to a team from Andorra. Some Hibs fans on Twitter saying it’s the worst result in their modern history. Do a good thing, followed up something terrible, seems to sum up LJ’s managerial career. 

[And Its Smith]

7 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Hibernian have just lost their ECL qualifier to a team from Andorra. Some Hibs fans on Twitter saying it’s the worst result in their modern history. Do a good thing, followed up something terrible, seems to sum up LJ’s managerial career. 

Second leg to come. My man’s got this 

[Victory Park Reds]

My bet there wasn’t enough box entries or some other bollocks or lack off.

A smug charlatan imho.I did enjoy the Man Utd game as I did the Liverpool fa cup games with Osman.

He should be an youth coach where some kids might believe his shite.Either that or sell used cars or double glazing.Absolute **** with the money he had and wasted at our club.

[Robbored]

24 minutes ago, BritAbroad said:

Wonder how much longer they will give LJ.

Who cares?     

 

[CodeRed]

4 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Who cares?     

 

Bitch!

[sglosbcfc]

Terrible result for Johnson and Hibs, however, you'd fancy them to turn it around at Easter Road next week.

[Northern Red]

Excellent, another thread about to be ruined.

[Red Exile]

41 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Lost 2-1 today to an Andorran side in the preliminary round of the Europa Conference league.

Firstly I can never recall a side from Andorra winning any game in Europe & secondly their subs included Jojo Wollacott (who will get his chance soon based on the error made by their keeper) & Jamie McAllister’s son.

I watched it. Small ground - one stand - had the air of a preseason match. Hibs had been training in Spain. Maybe we're spoiled but the quality was nothing like what we see in the the preseason highlights, players struggling to pick a pass. The main Hibs threat was coming from their continually used right back's long throw. You'd never have known that one of the managers was one of the up and coming coaching geniuses - and if you were told you'd never have guessed he was managing Hibs!

He's been sussed though - from their forum: 'will still be grinning from ear to ear giving his post match interviews where he will blame everything and everybody other than himself.'  

Edited July 27, 2023 by Red Exile

[Simon bristol]

38 minutes ago, BritAbroad said:

Wonder how much longer they will give LJ.

Shocking manager,, he probably had some high level technical approach all laid out that no one can understand so they got beaten, its not his fault, it’s everyone elses.

[Sleepy1968]

39 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Hibernian have just lost their ECL qualifier to a team from Andorra. Some Hibs fans on Twitter saying it’s the worst result in their modern history. Do a good thing, followed up something terrible, seems to sum up LJ’s managerial career. 

It was only the first leg, and only by the odd goal. They need to calm down a bit.

[italian dave]

There’s certainly no denying how obsessed with LJ some City fans are.

No fewer than three of the top 7 threads on our football forum at the moment are talking about a manager who left us more than three years ago.

[REDOXO]

A thread for the LJ Sub forum! 
 

 

But no one listens to me!!

[Red Exile]

4 minutes ago, italian dave said:

There’s certainly no denying how obsessed with LJ some City fans are.

No fewer than three of the top 7 threads on our football forum at the moment are talking about a manager who left us more than three years ago.

I wouldn't say it was an obsession, but rather the satisfaction that comes with being able to say 'told you'.  More seriously - in modern times he was a hugely consequential Bristol City manager, given the keys to the kingdom, always a divisive appointment, wasn't up to the job but was given what seemed like an age to prove himself, squandered the opportunity, left us in a mess.

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

Purely out of interest where was it played. Was it at the Estadi Nacional on an artificial surface? 

[And Its Smith]

Rent free 

[E.G.Red]

47 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Excellent, another thread about to be ruined.

We already gave the LJ thread. So need to merge the two.

[22A]

Inter d aren't mugs; they beat Vikingur in the previous round.

Here's today's game;

 

[Davefevs]

Every club has ‘em!

 

[phantom]

I would agree with both of the previous two posts

There are those that still follow him very closely, but additionally the nail was firmly hit on the head with the desc above 

[italian dave]

23 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

I wouldn't say it was an obsession, but rather the satisfaction that comes with being able to say 'told you'.  More seriously - in modern times he was a hugely consequential Bristol City manager, given the keys to the kingdom, always a divisive appointment, wasn't up to the job but was given what seemed like an age to prove himself, squandered the opportunity, left us in a mess.

I’m not getting into the debate about his time here because that would just make my point!

But I still find it hard to believe that after three years, two managers, a complete change of squad and a pandemic - and he still generates three of our top 7 discussions this evening. I’d call that obsessive! 

[Red Exile]

1 minute ago, italian dave said:

I’m not getting into the debate about his time here because that would just make my point!

But I still find it hard to believe that after three years, two managers, a complete change of squad and a pandemic - and he still generates three of our top 7 discussions this evening. I’d call that obsessive! 

haha - you have a point...but then again maybe there's not much else to write about this evening!

Unless speculation over the likely traumas of digital ticketing, the shade of blue, the size of the collar or the shape of the robin take one's fancy...

[petehinton]

10 minutes ago, italian dave said:

I’m not getting into the debate about his time here because that would just make my point!

But I still find it hard to believe that after three years, two managers, a complete change of squad and a pandemic - and he still generates three of our top 7 discussions this evening. I’d call that obsessive! 

I was never too fussed on him either way, but devil’s advocate, is it all that weird for people to still discuss one of the longest serving managers the clubs ever had from time to time? Will probably disappear from minds soon again after we’re 3-0 up against Preston after 25 minutes next Saturday 

[italian dave]

10 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

haha - you have a point...but then again maybe there's not much else to write about this evening!

Unless speculation over the likely traumas of digital ticketing, the shade of blue, the size of the collar or the shape of the robin take one's fancy...

 

2 minutes ago, petehinton said:

I was never too fussed on him either way, but devil’s advocate, is it all that weird for people to still discuss one of the longest serving managers the clubs ever had from time to time? Will probably disappear from minds soon again after we’re 3-0 up against Preston after 25 minutes next Saturday 

Yeah, fair comment: it is the close season - and no WC or EC this year. Hopefully you’re right and once the season gets underway……. But I still wouldn’t bet against his name cropping up from time to time! 

[eardun]

This made me chuckle - post match quote from LJ:
‘I don't want to give excuses because we just weren't good enough, but the altitude seemed a bit of a problem in terms of the lads getting a breath in.‘

Be surprised if they don’t turn it around in the second leg though. 

[cidercity1987]

13 minutes ago, petehinton said:

I was never too fussed on him either way, but devil’s advocate, is it all that weird for people to still discuss one of the longest serving managers the clubs ever had from time to time? Will probably disappear from minds soon again after we’re 3-0 up against Preston after 25 minutes next Saturday 

I wouldn't have thought he'd be out of minds as that's a prime candidate for a Johnson 3-3

[Elruliri]

I'm still in disbelief how he got the job. LJ and MA took the club Backwards. I couldn't give a toss what he does at another club. He will probably end up where his Dad is. And still talking shite and grass clippings.

[maxjak]

Nice reply from Little Lee when asked for his opinion on BBC post match............'it was disappointing wasn't it"?     I think he said there were altitude problems, but could have been meaning attitude?  Ha!!

Edited July 27, 2023 by maxjak

[handsofclay]

I'm surprised Johnson experienced altitude problems as he's a lot closer to ground level than most.

[phantom]

 

[fisherrich]

I think most City fans know he was out of his depth. Joke appointment made by SL.

[phantom]

48 minutes ago, eardun said:

This made me chuckle - post match quote from LJ:
‘I don't want to give excuses because we just weren't good enough, but the altitude seemed a bit of a problem in terms of the lads getting a breath in.‘

Be surprised if they don’t turn it around in the second leg though. 

 

 

[glynriley]

11 minutes ago, phantom said:

 

When boo just isn’t enough…****ing Boo

[Ska Junkie]

Still never his fault then! 

[Harry]

8 minutes ago, glynriley said:

When boo just isn’t enough…****ing Boo

I heard that too, ha ha. 
Can’t remember the guys name, Scottish comedian. Did that on Mock The Week a number of years ago 

[Harry]

11 minutes ago, glynriley said:

When boo just isn’t enough…****ing Boo

Found it 

2 minutes ago, Harry said:

I heard that too, ha ha. 
Can’t remember the guys name, Scottish comedian. Did that on Mock The Week a number of years ago 

 

[David Brent]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Every club has ‘em!

 

Just handbags 

[petehinton]

28 minutes ago, phantom said:

 

 

Ah. Yeah. That I absolutely don’t miss one bit. I did this, I did that, I prepared this, we worked on all this, I knew it would happen, players didn’t listen

[redsquirrel]

29 minutes ago, fisherrich said:

I think most City fans know he was out of his depth. Joke appointment made by SL.

sl appointed him because he knew he could talk down to him

[The Nest Egg]

Don't worry Hibs fans, I'm sure he will pick a team he can trust for the second leg...

[Robbored]

44 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

Still never his fault then! 

Inherited that trait from his father.

[Kodjias Wrist]

53 minutes ago, An Outstanding Human said:

Don't worry Hibs fans, I'm sure he will pick a team he can trust for the second leg...

This used to wind me up when he said that and I used to think well its your players and your squad. Having said that wasn't it MA who essentially decided who we brought in and LJ just ok'd it? 

[Lew-T]

3 hours ago, eardun said:

This made me chuckle - post match quote from LJ:
‘I don't want to give excuses because we just weren't good enough, but the altitude seemed a bit of a problem in terms of the lads getting a breath in.‘

Be surprised if they don’t turn it around in the second leg though. 

My god I don’t miss that bollocks post match.

[alexukhc]

Dunno why but can see his next job with the Sags

[CodeRed]

Hibs fans not happy!

" we are managed by a clown . A complete charlatan, make no mistake . David Marshall sold the jerseys a few times in the 2nd half of the season . It is obvious the guy is past it , but LJ hasn’t the balls to drop him .
LJ tells us before the game , that our opponents are a big physical team , so he starts 8 stone soaking wet , crisp packet in the wind , Melkerson. The guy has proved time and time again he just does not have the ability or brains to manage Hibs . His slavering is becoming legendary, and he is turning us into a joke outfit."

[2015]

24 minutes ago, alexukhc said:

Dunno why but can see his next job with the Sags

They are more than welcome to his absolute s****.

[Leveller]

12 hours ago, eardun said:

This made me chuckle - post match quote from LJ:
‘I don't want to give excuses because we just weren't good enough, but the altitude seemed a bit of a problem in terms of the lads getting a breath in.‘

Be surprised if they don’t turn it around in the second leg though. 

Andorra play at about 1000m in the Pyrenees. Whilst that isn’t considered “high altitude” (compared with, say, the issues in Bolivia) it is probably high enough to have a minor effect on breathing, so it’s likely to be a valid point.