Lee Johnson

[italian dave]

27 minutes ago, NickJ said:

 No

And @CodeRed ….### me , you’ve both had a miserable time following City for years, haven’t you?

Like I said, personally, I enjoyed much of his tenure - less so the last year or so - but there you go. 

[Son of Fred]

6 minutes ago, italian dave said:

And @CodeRed ….### me , you’ve both had a miserable time following City for years, haven’t you?

Like I said, personally, I enjoyed much of his tenure - less so the last year or so - but there you go. 

Yes, the LJ rollercoaster -

It's fun for a while,,has its ups,,but if you stay on too long you get kinda queasy..

Edited January 6, 2023 by Son of Fred

[italian dave]

5 minutes ago, Son of Fred said:

Yes, the LJ rollercoaster -

It's fun for a while,,has its ups,,but if you stay on too long you get kinda queasy..

Sums it up!

I guess 90% of management careers end in failure one way or the other. So at least getting some ups along the way is a bonus! 

[CodeRed]

6 minutes ago, italian dave said:

And @CodeRed ….### me , you’ve both had a miserable time following City for years, haven’t you?

Like I said, personally, I enjoyed much of his tenure - less so the last year or so - but there you go. 

Frustrating rather than miserable!  4 wasted years where he didn't move the club forward, a mistake by SL to bring him in without any credentials whatsoever to manage a Championship club, and a mistake to keep him in post when he clearly wasn't delivering the objective. A mistake to throw money at him. A mistake to give him an extended contract when he was clearly struggling ( after the "streak"). A mistake that has meant the next manager has had his hands tied. 

 

[Alessandro]

@italian dave - Having watched City go up and down the 2nd/3rd tier a few times and the odd Windscreens shield success - in my 30 odd years of supporting City - the league cup run and specifically the win vs. Man Utd was  (sadly) a top 1 or 2 lifetime highlight. Probably the only time I’ve cried at a City match.

You can draw positives and negatives from most managers’ times here - but frankly if you’re a pathetic fan so blinded by hatred of the manager that you couldn’t enjoy that night, one of the best in our recent history, you’ve got to feel very sorry for them and ask, why bother?

[CodeRed]

1 hour ago, REDOXO said:

 He won a Scottish League Cup winners medal.
 

 

Scottish League Cup ?

 

That like putting on your CV that you won the egg and spoon race at primary school!

[CodeRed]

11 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

@italian dave - Having watched City go up and down the 2nd/3rd tier a few times and the odd Windscreens shield success - in my 30 odd years of supporting City - the league cup run and specifically the win vs. Man Utd was  (sadly) a top 1 or 2 lifetime highlight. Probably the only time I’ve cried at a City match.

You can draw positives and negatives from most managers’ times here - but frankly if you’re a pathetic fan so blinded by hatred of the manager that you couldn’t enjoy that night, one of the best in our recent history, you’ve got to feel very sorry for them and ask, why bother?

I enjoyed the Man U win, as we all did, but on the scales that night versus £55 Million spent, 74 players signed, and leaving the club in such a state that it's taking years to recover.......the bad grossly outweighs the good 

[alexukhc]

Ivan Lucic remember him

[FNQ]

38 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

@italian dave - Having watched City go up and down the 2nd/3rd tier a few times and the odd Windscreens shield success - in my 30 odd years of supporting City - the league cup run and specifically the win vs. Man Utd was  (sadly) a top 1 or 2 lifetime highlight. Probably the only time I’ve cried at a City match.

You can draw positives and negatives from most managers’ times here - but frankly if you’re a pathetic fan so blinded by hatred of the manager that you couldn’t enjoy that night, one of the best in our recent history, you’ve got to feel very sorry for them and ask, why bother?

Wow.. the only time you’ve cried at a City match.. I do it frequently albeit watching from afar, Birmingham away this season I was inconsolable for days.. 

[REDOXO]

35 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

Scottish League Cup ?

 

That like putting on your CV that you won the egg and spoon race at primary school!

That must have been a hell of a primary school you went to! 
 

Of the promotion team and since, how many, if any, have won more?  Serious question. I don’t have time to look. 

Edited January 6, 2023 by REDOXO

[The Constant Rabbit]

How LJ managed to get Djuric and Magnússon to city - and then proceed to get them to regress was beyond me.

The same guys have gone on to have really decent solid careers. 

 

Baffling.

[Alessandro]

1 hour ago, CodeRed said:

I enjoyed the Man U win, as we all did, but on the scales that night versus £55 Million spent, 74 players signed, and leaving the club in such a state that it's taking years to recover.......the bad grossly outweighs the good 

That wasn't the discussion but anyway while what you write is mostly 'correct' - I think we all know it's oversimplifying the situation a bit. We've done the money and transfers to death (money spent vs money received/Ashton/agents/SL etc etc) - I'm not denying his blame, but I can also step back and acknowledge:

a) it's a share of blame - SL, MA also take blame IMO for transfers and strategies.

b) Yes we are financially in the shit, but that is not LJ's fault. MA and SL signed on the dotted lines. They pushed the budgets. They knew the FFP implications. They appointed Holden who set us back further. 

IMO on the whole LJ had us fighting at the right end of the table but my biggest criticism was he should have gone sooner and the scattergun transfer policy that bloated the squad and ended up with us losing our way on the pitch - again, as more info comes to light over transfers, that is something MA and SL have questions to answer perhaps more so than LJ.

[CodeRed]

5 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

That wasn't the discussion but anyway while what you write is mostly 'correct' - I think we all know it's oversimplifying the situation a bit. We've done the money and transfers to death (money spent vs money received/Ashton/agents/SL etc etc) - I'm not denying his blame, but I can also step back and acknowledge:

a) it's a share of blame - SL, MA also take blame IMO for transfers and strategies.

b) Yes we are financially in the shit, but that is not LJ's fault. MA and SL signed on the dotted lines. They pushed the budgets. They knew the FFP implications. They appointed Holden who set us back further. 

IMO on the whole LJ had us fighting at the right end of the table but my biggest criticism was he should have gone sooner and the scattergun transfer policy that bloated the squad and ended up with us losing our way on the pitch - again, as more info comes to light over transfers, that is something MA and SL have questions to answer perhaps more so than LJ.

I know MA is to blame as well, but my point is that the constant influx of players at every window suited LJ, and he encouraged it, it camouflaged his lack of ability.....it was always jam tomorrow....when this or that player settles, when we can get leaders, or when we get this "club" into the bag, always the constant churning of the squad meant he was always saying we're nearly there and when we get x or y it will be ok.

What about managing what You've got, a big squad, lots of options, just work to improve the team. He's doing the same at Hibs, he's signed loads but now blaming their poor league position and results on the squad - he needs this that and the other etc. Forget all the grass measuring, drones, buzz phrases, hanging out in A & E and the Red Arrows, and just coach the f u cking team.....you can't though - we see you.

[M.D]

8 hours ago, CodeRed said:

I enjoyed the Man U win, as we all did, but on the scales that night versus £55 Million spent, 74 players signed, and leaving the club in such a state that it's taking years to recover.......the bad grossly outweighs the good 

Is that how much Ashton spent on players?

[1960maaan]

7 hours ago, Alessandro said:

a) it's a share of blame - SL, MA also take blame IMO for transfers and strategies.

b) Yes we are financially in the shit, but that is not LJ's fault. MA and SL signed on the dotted lines. They pushed the budgets. They knew the FFP implications. They appointed Holden who set us back further. 

IMO on the whole LJ had us fighting at the right end of the table but my biggest criticism was he should have gone sooner and the scattergun transfer policy that bloated the squad and ended up with us losing our way on the pitch - again, as more info comes to light over transfers, that is something MA and SL have questions to answer perhaps more so than LJ.

TBF all Managers want "just one more player", so while Johnson gets the blame for a lot of things, it's not all down to him where we are. He should have been more focused on building a team shape & style, but IMO the majority of blame falls on Ashton.
Steve Lansdown has been criticised for not being a football man, well Mark Ashton was supposed to be that buffer/conduit. But he loved buying players. Lansdown was guilty of too much loyalty and trust, that's the main point here. Ashton over saw all those transfers, even if he didn't target them (which no one really knows), he convinced Steve L to sign the cheque.

We will never know why holden was appointed, or at least the thinking behind it. No one believes he was the best man for the job at that time. What I think is Ashton may have been concerned with his position and not wanted someone coming in that was well experienced, strong willed and not gullible. If Pearson come in under Ashton I think we would have seen some fireworks.

All 3 are culpable , Johnson lacked plan and focus. Lansdown trusted the wrong person , you'd think with Gould or the new CEO we wouldn't be in this situation. Ashton was given the keys to the car and his ego ran amok .

We are lucky that when the owner drops a bollock, he has the funds to pay for his mistakes. Many Clubs have fallen down or out of the League through poor or reckless spending.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

9 hours ago, CodeRed said:

I enjoyed the Man U win, as we all did, but on the scales that night versus £55 Million spent, 74 players signed, and leaving the club in such a state that it's taking years to recover.......the bad grossly outweighs the good 

For me "enjoying the Man U game" doesn't come close to my personal experience and if there is one single defining moment in my time of supporting BCFC then that was it. It was the best £35 I ever spent and don't miss the £55 million I didn't spend.That one match wasn't winning the cup or getting promotion but that night felt like it- for me.

If the feeling that the ManU game was merely enjoyable then I cant think you were there.

[CodeRed]

21 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

For me "enjoying the Man U game" doesn't come close to my personal experience and if there is one single defining moment in my time of supporting BCFC then that was it. It was the best £35 I ever spent and don't miss the £55 million I didn't spend.That one match wasn't winning the cup or getting promotion but that night felt like it- for me.

If the feeling that the ManU game was merely enjoyable then I cant think you were there.

Takes a lot to get me excited these days  , it was a good night but nothing will ever top the evening of April 20th 1976 for me.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

2 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

Takes a lot to get me excited these days  , it was a good night but nothing will ever top the evening of April 20th 1976 for me.

I was too young!!! 

I'm embarrassed to ask but what happened? I guess it must be promotion to the old L1?

[Son of Fred]

1 hour ago, 1960maaan said:

If Pearson come in under Ashton I think we would have seen some fireworks

Fireworks would have just been the warmup!

[downendcity]

23 hours ago, Vidal said:

I remember seeing Nagy v QPR on his home debut thinking he was going to be signing off the century for us, absolutely outstanding……as was Massengo for his first month. What happened?

Instead of picking a team to play to our strengths, LJ picked a team to counter the strengths of the opposition.

[pongo88]

10 hours ago, CodeRed said:

Scottish League Cup ?

 

That like putting on your CV that you won the egg and spoon race at primary school!

I won the egg and spoon race at primary school. If only I’d put it on my CV I would have got more job interviews. 

[Robbored]

11 hours ago, CodeRed said:

I enjoyed the Man U win, as we all did, but on the scales that night versus £55 Million spent, 74 players signed, and leaving the club in such a state that it's taking years to recover.......the bad grossly outweighs the good 

We all enjoyed seeing the stars of Man Utd humbled. Mourinho was so embarrassed that he didn’t stay for the usual post drink and for me that was the highlight of LJ career at City.

Sadly he devolved into his father and became a one trick pony - that’s when my support him evaporated. 

[cider-manc]

15 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

Djuric, not a bad player, but injury/family unsettled cut him short here. Played in Serie A last 2...

We would of got playoffs in 18/19 if Djuric had stayed - Easily worth 5 or 6 points a season off the bench when chasing games.

This is a hill I'm willing to die on.

[Rob k]

17 minutes ago, Robbored said:

We all enjoyed seeing the stars of Man Utd humbled. Mourinho was so embarrassed that he didn’t stay for the usual post drink and for me that was the highlight of LJ career at City.

Sadly he devolved into his father and became a one trick pony - that’s when my support him evaporated. 

Gary Johnson nearly had us in the premiership - your disrespect towards him is weird 

[Alessandro]

10 hours ago, CodeRed said:

I know MA is to blame as well, but my point is that the constant influx of players at every window suited LJ, and he encouraged it, it camouflaged his lack of ability.....it was always jam tomorrow....when this or that player settles, when we can get leaders, or when we get this "club" into the bag, always the constant churning of the squad meant he was always saying we're nearly there and when we get x or y it will be ok.

What about managing what You've got, a big squad, lots of options, just work to improve the team. He's doing the same at Hibs, he's signed loads but now blaming their poor league position and results on the squad - he needs this that and the other etc. Forget all the grass measuring, drones, buzz phrases, hanging out in A & E and the Red Arrows, and just coach the f u cking team.....you can't though - we see you.

Of course, all managers are the same, they want upgrades. But yeah, the very best managers get upgrades AND the best out of players. But you've got to remember, you can't get blood out of a stone...

Either way - I just can't look back at LJ and be angry and say that was a period where nothing good happened, end of. Regardless of if you liked him or not, he was a man who respected the club and put his 110% into finding the edges that might have helped us punch above our weight in one of the toughest divisions in the world.

Whatever "City transfer records" money was spent, it was never in the top 6, 4, 2 bracket. 

If you want to hold transfers over LJ, i'm sorry, but for me you blame more the CEO and the owner. They do the money. He can ask, but they say yes or no.

In football, nothing is certain, sometimes you take a punt on a manager and you have to give time and loyalty.

SL put his faith and loyalty in LJ (and MA) - if you think that was wrong, blame SL. If you think LJ had too many players, or was here too long, that's not LJ's fault.

And yes, we are in the shit financially - but that was the risk SL and MA took, the gamble didn't pay off (and for us to get out the division, we will have to gamble)- so if it doesn't work you tighten, re-group and go again. Nearly every club is the same. 

[Alessandro]

3 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

If Pearson come in under Ashton I think we would have seen some fireworks.

Pearson did come in under Ashton. They worked together for at least a few months before Ashton jumped ship.

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, cider-manc said:

We would of got playoffs in 18/19 if Djuric had stayed - Easily worth 5 or 6 points a season off the bench when chasing games.

This is a hill I'm willing to die on.

What used to drive me nuts is he'd seem to always sub Duric for Eliasson or vice versa.

One was so strong and good in the air it was ridiculous and the other the best crosser in the history of all man kind. Is it just me or would you want the two of them on the pitch at the same time? 

[1960maaan]

10 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Pearson did come in under Ashton. They worked together for at least a few months before Ashton jumped ship.

While Nige was temporary yeah . I wonder if SL deciding to make him permanent had a bearing, would be something to like NP for.
Pearson joins end of Feb, Ashton departure announced mid April. 

I was thinking longer term though, I think even Pearson wouldn't have 'full bore' in those early days. Given time, and a realisation of how big the mess was, I think it could have been entertaining further down the line. 

[Davefevs]

11 hours ago, Alessandro said:

That wasn't the discussion but anyway while what you write is mostly 'correct' - I think we all know it's oversimplifying the situation a bit. We've done the money and transfers to death (money spent vs money received/Ashton/agents/SL etc etc) - I'm not denying his blame, but I can also step back and acknowledge:

a) it's a share of blame - SL, MA also take blame IMO for transfers and strategies.

b) Yes we are financially in the shit, but that is not LJ's fault. MA and SL signed on the dotted lines. They pushed the budgets. They knew the FFP implications. They appointed Holden who set us back further. 

IMO on the whole LJ had us fighting at the right end of the table but my biggest criticism was he should have gone sooner and the scattergun transfer policy that bloated the squad and ended up with us losing our way on the pitch - again, as more info comes to light over transfers, that is something MA and SL have questions to answer perhaps more so than LJ.

10 hours ago, CodeRed said:

I know MA is to blame as well, but my point is that the constant influx of players at every window suited LJ, and he encouraged it, it camouflaged his lack of ability.....it was always jam tomorrow....when this or that player settles, when we can get leaders, or when we get this "club" into the bag, always the constant churning of the squad meant he was always saying we're nearly there and when we get x or y it will be ok.

What about managing what You've got, a big squad, lots of options, just work to improve the team. He's doing the same at Hibs, he's signed loads but now blaming their poor league position and results on the squad - he needs this that and the other etc. Forget all the grass measuring, drones, buzz phrases, hanging out in A & E and the Red Arrows, and just coach the f u cking team.....you can't though - we see you.

I think you are BOTH right.

23 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Pearson did come in under Ashton. They worked together for at least a few months before Ashton jumped ship.

Ashton was put on gardening leave. He was occasionally wheeled out for the HPC stuff to give the impression all was hunky-dory behind the glare of the media.

I think that if Ashton had remained, Pearson wouldn’t have stayed. You’ve only got to listen to his criticism of our strategy to see he includes Ashton (and the Lansdowns) in that. 

[CodeRed]

34 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Of course, all managers are the same, they want upgrades. But yeah, the very best managers get upgrades AND the best out of players. But you've got to remember, you can't get blood out of a stone...

Either way - I just can't look back at LJ and be angry and say that was a period where nothing good happened, end of. Regardless of if you liked him or not, he was a man who respected the club and put his 110% into finding the edges that might have helped us punch above our weight in one of the toughest divisions in the world.

Whatever "City transfer records" money was spent, it was never in the top 6, 4, 2 bracket. 

If you want to hold transfers over LJ, i'm sorry, but for me you blame more the CEO and the owner. They do the money. He can ask, but they say yes or no.

In football, nothing is certain, sometimes you take a punt on a manager and you have to give time and loyalty.

SL put his faith and loyalty in LJ (and MA) - if you think that was wrong, blame SL. If you think LJ had too many players, or was here too long, that's not LJ's fault.

And yes, we are in the shit financially - but that was the risk SL and MA took, the gamble didn't pay off (and for us to get out the division, we will have to gamble)- so if it doesn't work you tighten, re-group and go again. Nearly every club is the same. 

My point is that it's always a work in progress with LJ, he did say give me 3 windows to build a squad and 6 windows later he was still moaning that he needed ' warriors ' and 'leaders', He said he the final say on incomings so we can't put it all on Ashton.

Anyway we'll never agree on LJ, the fanbase is split into 2 camps: Those who think he did a poor job, and those who think he did a f u cking terrible job!