Lee Johnson

[ralphindevon]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

LJ benefited hugely by nepotism throughout his playing career and now his managerial career is heading the same way as his father - down the leagues.

It won’t be too long before Hibs sack him and his next job will likely be in League 2 or maybe the Conference.

Well there’s rumours his dad could be in his final days as Torquay manager, maybe Lee will take over the reigns.

[petehinton]

I think he knows that this is his make or break job, hence the lashing out. Can’t see anyone touching him if this fails, unless he goes abroad. 

Just now, Numero Uno said:

Sending your Assistant in to dish out a bollocking is not going to go down well with any squad of players. The obvious accusation is you haven’t got the balls to do it yourself.

I know a few people that have been in the dressing room with McAllister dishing out the hairdryer treatment, and it’s supposed to be ******* intimidating. Maybe means more coming from a Scot?

[Red-Robbo]

4 minutes ago, ralphindevon said:

Well there’s rumours his dad could be in his final days as Torquay manager, maybe Lee will take over the reigns.

 

They're so potless there they can't afford to sack Gary, who is on more money than any of their players.

If they drop to Conference South they can release him on contract terms.

[Port Said Red]

I saw the highlights of the game against Hearts and they were all over the place in the first half. LJ apparently made some changes at half time and they battered them but couldn't score. Then Hearts broke away at the end to seal it.

As the stats suggest, they look in desperate need of a striker. I wonder if Lee can pull off a Tammy type loan for them?

 

Edited January 4, 2023 by Port Said Red

[bcfcredandwhite]

On 15/11/2022 at 07:35, Bris Red said:

 

I can see him following a fairly similar career trajectory as his father did after leaving us to be honest.

That wouldn’t be a bad thing for him if that happened - GJ went on to take Yeovil to the Championship and for a while they were the highest placed West Country side - a division above us!

[Midred]

1 minute ago, Port Said Red said:

I saw the highlights of the game against His and they were all over the place in the first half. LJ apparently made some changes at half time and they battered them but couldn't score. Then Hearts broke away at the end to seal it.

As the stats suggest, they look in desperate need of a striker. I wonder if Lee can pull off a Tammy type loan for them?

 

Did I hear that Chris Martin could be available? 

[pongo88]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

LJ benefited hugely by nepotism throughout his playing career and now his managerial career is heading the same way as his father - down the leagues.

It won’t be too long before Hibs sack him and his next job will likely be in League maybe the Conference.

I’m surprised you didn’t suggest Torquay if Gary leaves following relegation 

[The Coach]

Could see him at Gillingham next 

[Fordy62]

Back the man who deserves the backing, or bring in your mate and throw money at him. 

Still Lansdown’s biggest mistake in his tenure here. 

None of this surprises me. 

[daored]

The comment on sky today that having a ‘full stop meeting ‘ was typical Johnson bluster 

[johnheadbcfc]

Cant understand the hate he gets to be honest anyone would think he played for rovers and burned a city flag. Oh wait that man is loved by some city fans 

[The Coach]

7 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Back the man who deserves the backing, or bring in your mate and throw money at him. 

Still Lansdown’s biggest mistake in his tenure here. 

None of this surprises me. 

How many other Championship clubs would have offered Johnson a job at that time?
 

Not one.

[spudski]

10 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Back the man who deserves the backing, or bring in your mate and throw money at him. 

Still Lansdown’s biggest mistake in his tenure here. 

None of this surprises me. 

What do you mean by ' bring in your mate'?

At the time, SL courted LJ over a number of years, as he saw him as someone he could trust. Over a period of time they discussed ways of working together and making a plan to run the Club.

Finding a way of agreeing a way forward.

Imo...it wasn't making LJ the coach as the biggest problem, as SL courted him.

The biggest mistake he made was making Ashton CEO and giving him so much power.

That's where the problems occured.

Don't get me wrong, LJ isn't perfect, he has his problems, you don't get the nick name of Streaky Lee for nothing. His biggest problem imo, is trying to overcomplicate the way a team plays...trying to play in a way that the players aren't capable of. Glen Hoddle was the same. Trying to get progression with players that weren't capable of doing it. Judging the ability of a squad is paramount.

Look how much goes into scouting  of players, you'd think the same amount of energy would go into scouting managers. As to what fits your club...not what they've done elsewhere.

Courting potential managers is, imo, a very good idea over time. Instead of leaving it to an interview stage. 

[Numero Uno]

35 minutes ago, spudski said:

What do you mean by ' bring in your mate'?

At the time, SL courted LJ over a number of years, as he saw him as someone he could trust. Over a period of time they discussed ways of working together and making a plan to run the Club.

Finding a way of agreeing a way forward.

Imo...it wasn't making LJ the coach as the biggest problem, as SL courted him.

The biggest mistake he made was making Ashton CEO and giving him so much power.

That's where the problems occured.

Don't get me wrong, LJ isn't perfect, he has his problems, you don't get the nick name of Streaky Lee for nothing. His biggest problem imo, is trying to overcomplicate the way a team plays...trying to play in a way that the players aren't capable of. Glen Hoddle was the same. Trying to get progression with players that weren't capable of doing it. Judging the ability of a squad is paramount.

Look how much goes into scouting  of players, you'd think the same amount of energy would go into scouting managers. As to what fits your club...not what they've done elsewhere.

Courting potential managers is, imo, a very good idea over time. Instead of leaving it to an interview stage. 

Good point about judging your squad. Viera at Palace being a great example of a bloke who played for great football sides but has taken a pragmatic approach at Palace. A team of decent Premier League players who work hard and look to get the ball to their one real quality player.

[LondonBristolian]

37 minutes ago, spudski said:

What do you mean by ' bring in your mate'?

At the time, SL courted LJ over a number of years, as he saw him as someone he could trust. Over a period of time they discussed ways of working together and making a plan to run the Club.

Finding a way of agreeing a way forward.

Imo...it wasn't making LJ the coach as the biggest problem, as SL courted him.

The biggest mistake he made was making Ashton CEO and giving him so much power.

That's where the problems occured.

Don't get me wrong, LJ isn't perfect, he has his problems, you don't get the nick name of Streaky Lee for nothing. His biggest problem imo, is trying to overcomplicate the way a team plays...trying to play in a way that the players aren't capable of. Glen Hoddle was the same. Trying to get progression with players that weren't capable of doing it. Judging the ability of a squad is paramount.

Look how much goes into scouting  of players, you'd think the same amount of energy would go into scouting managers. As to what fits your club...not what they've done elsewhere.

Courting potential managers is, imo, a very good idea over time. Instead of leaving it to an interview stage. 

I agree with this. I also think LJ tends to be portrayed as a much worse manager for us than the reality suggests. In truth, he got us established as a stable Championship team that was closer to the top end than the bottom. He didn't do as good a job as we all hoped but he did better than most of our managers do. You could easily argue he was lucky not to be sacked during the extended losing streak but, after that, I honestly think he got us moving in the right direction until a disastrous transfer window in summer 2019. He did a poor job in his final season and I was relieved when he was sacked but the job he did for us was - on the whole - steady and a bit underwhelming rather than the complete disaster some paint his time here as.

[spudski]

4 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Good point about judging your squad. Viera at Palace being a great example of a bloke who played for great football sides but has taken a pragmatic approach at Palace. A team of decent Premier League players who work hard and look to get the ball to their one real quality player.

It's the one thing that sticks out for me.

Judging what you are capable of as a squad is paramount. 

Trying to get players to do something they aren't capable of is tantamount to self destruction.

Coaching them in training and seeing what they are capable of, and then testing against an opposition is a skill of judgement. It's under valued. 

It's interesting as you say...Viera plays below what he was capable of...yet LJ tried to play way above what he was capable of, and often the players he employed. 

Finding the correct balance is essential.

6 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I agree with this. I also think LJ tends to be portrayed as a much worse manager for us than the reality suggests. In truth, he got us established as a stable Championship team that was closer to the top end than the bottom. He didn't do as good a job as we all hoped but he did better than most of our managers do. You could easily argue he was lucky not to be sacked during the extended losing streak but, after that, I honestly think he got us moving in the right direction until a disastrous transfer window in summer 2019. He did a poor job in his final season and I was relieved when he was sacked but the job he did for us was - on the whole - steady and a bit underwhelming rather than the complete disaster some paint his time here as.

I totally agree with that.

 

[Numero Uno]

5 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I agree with this. I also think LJ tends to be portrayed as a much worse manager for us than the reality suggests. In truth, he got us established as a stable Championship team that was closer to the top end than the bottom. He didn't do as good a job as we all hoped but he did better than most of our managers do. You could easily argue he was lucky not to be sacked during the extended losing streak but, after that, I honestly think he got us moving in the right direction until a disastrous transfer window in summer 2019. He did a poor job in his final season and I was relieved when he was sacked but the job he did for us was - on the whole - steady and a bit underwhelming rather than the complete disaster some paint his time here as.

What was disastrous was the fall out of his time here although he was only doing what the CEO at the time allowed him to.

[Engvall’s Splinter]

7 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I agree with this. I also think LJ tends to be portrayed as a much worse manager for us than the reality suggests. In truth, he got us established as a stable Championship team that was closer to the top end than the bottom. He didn't do as good a job as we all hoped but he did better than most of our managers do. You could easily argue he was lucky not to be sacked during the extended losing streak but, after that, I honestly think he got us moving in the right direction until a disastrous transfer window in summer 2019. He did a poor job in his final season and I was relieved when he was sacked but the job he did for us was - on the whole - steady and a bit underwhelming rather than the complete disaster some paint his time here as.

He’s had more funds available than any of our managers too. Many of the others haven’t had a fighting chance. 

[Vidal]

Johnson, Cowley, Harris all been promoted well above their level 

[Bris Red]

1 hour ago, LondonBristolian said:

I agree with this. I also think LJ tends to be portrayed as a much worse manager for us than the reality suggests. In truth, he got us established as a stable Championship team that was closer to the top end than the bottom. He didn't do as good a job as we all hoped but he did better than most of our managers do. You could easily argue he was lucky not to be sacked during the extended losing streak but, after that, I honestly think he got us moving in the right direction until a disastrous transfer window in summer 2019. He did a poor job in his final season and I was relieved when he was sacked but the job he did for us was - on the whole - steady and a bit underwhelming rather than the complete disaster some paint his time here as.

LJ did fine for me in his first couple of years here - the problem that the powers that be didn’t see was that by about the summer of 2018 he had taken us as far as he could.

IMO he did a very good job after Cotts. Don’t get me wrong i loved Cotts but we we’re heading down that season under him. Yes he wasn’t backed etc etc but his obsession with playing 3-5-2 week in week out when it just wasn’t working was his downfall. I think SL got rid of him at the right time.

As I just said the summer of 2018 was the time to have given LJ the boot. Yes it would have been harsh maybe as he had us knocking on the door and fair play he got us established at this level and the cup run was fantastic but that was the summer to have gotten in a Pearson or Hughton IMO. Managers who have proven at this level if they have heaps of cash to spend (like LJ was allowed to spunk) then they will more than likely get you into the play-offs as a bare minimum.

Edited January 4, 2023 by Bris Red

[alexukhc]

Reuben McAllister showing he made a wise move

[Kodjias Wrist]

1 hour ago, Vidal said:

Johnson, Cowley, Harris all been promoted well above their level 

I think Harris did pretty well with Millwall after they got promoted. They finished 8th in their first season and Harris got them to two FA cup quarter finals. Not bad id say!

Theres this perception in this league that if a manager/coach has a bad season or falls below expectations, they are a bad manager/coach. Cowleys have a couple of promotions and a cup run under their belt with Lincoln too. We all know about LJ...

[Ron W]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

Don't get me wrong, LJ isn't perfect, he has his problems, you don't get the nick name of Streaky Lee for nothing. His biggest problem imo, is trying to overcomplicate the way a team plays...trying to play in a way that the players aren't capable of. Glen Hoddle was the same. Trying to get progression with players that weren't capable of doing it. Judging the ability of a squad is paramount.

I think this nails it. He has a masterclass video on the Coach's Voice website recorded during his time at Sunderland.

It's aimed at coaches, and I'm no expert on the lingo players are taught on the training ground to fully judge.

It was very intricate and thought-out, and you could appreciate the planning that had gone into it. But he didn't come across as particularly charismatic and to a layman it felt technical to the point that you could see players getting bored and switching off.

[spudski]

5 minutes ago, Ron W said:

I think this nails it. He has a masterclass video on the Coach's Voice website recorded during his time at Sunderland.

It's aimed at coaches, and I'm no expert on the lingo players are taught on the training ground to fully judge.

It was very intricate and thought-out, and you could appreciate the planning that had gone into it. But he didn't come across as particularly charismatic and to a layman it felt technical to the point that you could see players getting bored and switching off.

Yes I've seen that as well.

I do agree...LJ is probably one of the worst for using coaching talk when addressing the press. He needs to talk more in layman's terms when addressing the public. It would help his public image. 

When he was here, he spoke that way, and it grated with many. Combine that with Ashton's corporate talk,cand it became a nauseating combination.

I enjoyed LJs comprehensive detail and passion, but on occasion it needed to be toned down. 

[Cityboy1954]

2 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

I agree with this. I also think LJ tends to be portrayed as a much worse manager for us than the reality suggests. In truth, he got us established as a stable Championship team that was closer to the top end than the bottom. He didn't do as good a job as we all hoped but he did better than most of our managers do. You could easily argue he was lucky not to be sacked during the extended losing streak but, after that, I honestly think he got us moving in the right direction until a disastrous transfer window in summer 2019. He did a poor job in his final season and I was relieved when he was sacked but the job he did for us was - on the whole - steady and a bit underwhelming rather than the complete disaster some paint his time here as.

Still think he was a potatoe waffle .

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 hours ago, spudski said:

What do you mean by ' bring in your mate'?

At the time, SL courted LJ over a number of years, as he saw him as someone he could trust. Over a period of time they discussed ways of working together and making a plan to run the Club.

Finding a way of agreeing a way forward.

Imo...it wasn't making LJ the coach as the biggest problem, as SL courted him.

The biggest mistake he made was making Ashton CEO and giving him so much power.

That's where the problems occured.

Don't get me wrong, LJ isn't perfect, he has his problems, you don't get the nick name of Streaky Lee for nothing. His biggest problem imo, is trying to overcomplicate the way a team plays...trying to play in a way that the players aren't capable of. Glen Hoddle was the same. Trying to get progression with players that weren't capable of doing it. Judging the ability of a squad is paramount.

Look how much goes into scouting  of players, you'd think the same amount of energy would go into scouting managers. As to what fits your club...not what they've done elsewhere.

Courting potential managers is, imo, a very good idea over time. Instead of leaving it to an interview stage. 

I actually think LJ didn't play to the strengths of some of our players- agree with a lot of your post btw but a true 4-3-3 at one point would have suited us IMO- but he never really entertained it

4-4-2, a sort of but not entire 4-1-4-1 which tbh worked very well for a time, experiments with 3 at the back...2 Cms and someone like Palmer or Paterson can leave a side exposed somewhere.

The lopsided 4-4-1-1, Paterson behind Reid was a bit of a masterstroke but only really came about as injuries forced his hand!

[Fuber]

4 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

I agree with this. I also think LJ tends to be portrayed as a much worse manager for us than the reality suggests. In truth, he got us established as a stable Championship team that was closer to the top end than the bottom. He didn't do as good a job as we all hoped but he did better than most of our managers do. You could easily argue he was lucky not to be sacked during the extended losing streak but, after that, I honestly think he got us moving in the right direction until a disastrous transfer window in summer 2019. He did a poor job in his final season and I was relieved when he was sacked but the job he did for us was - on the whole - steady and a bit underwhelming rather than the complete disaster some paint his time here as.

On the pitch sure. But as manager, he even said he had sign off on transfers and left us a bloated tragic mess.

Him, MA, and SL were an unmitigated disaster financially that ruined any prospective of future building - irrespective of Covid.

If it was NP, getting no shots on target with a squad of that value, he'd be given the P45 at the final wistle as soon as it happened.

For contrast, current squad fees are - Academy, Academy, £1.6m, Free, 300k, £100k (Compensation), Academy, Free, £2m (LJ), £4m (LJ), Academy.

LJs squad at a time in 18/19, on paper, was worth fees of up to £42m. And that's ignoring that player wage increases year on year to over and beyond our turnover. All of LJs progression was sheer forced improvement of the tools he had via increasing overheads without even getting rid of the deadwood he replaced.

Id usually point the finger squarely at MA. However, LJ seems to be at it again at Hibs, 30 players he's used, in 6 months. For contrast, St Mirren, in fifth, have used 22 players.

He's an OK Coach, but a horrific manager in that he's doesnt have a set system and focuses on countering the opposition through a range of differing ideas, massively over complicating player instructions, leading to a lack of clear identity on the pitch. We saw it time and again, game after game. Once the luck runs out, and his teams lose the small margins, the bad runs starts and he struggled horrifically to recover from them. The second he finds a system that works, he sticks with it until it stutters, and rather than adapt it, starts from scratch again and again until he finds one that works, rinse and repeat.

He'll be sacked from Hibs before the end of the season.

Apologies for the rant, but I think a few people are really rose tinting the cup run season and misremembering some of the utter squalor from the following two seasons, Webster's mazy dribbles aside.

[Rob k]

9 hours ago, Fuber said:

On the pitch sure. But as manager, he even said he had sign off on transfers and left us a bloated tragic mess.

Him, MA, and SL were an unmitigated disaster financially that ruined any prospective of future building - irrespective of Covid.

If it was NP, getting no shots on target with a squad of that value, he'd be given the P45 at the final wistle as soon as it happened.

For contrast, current squad fees are - Academy, Academy, £1.6m, Free, 300k, £100k (Compensation), Academy, Free, £2m (LJ), £4m (LJ), Academy.

LJs squad at a time in 18/19, on paper, was worth fees of up to £42m. And that's ignoring that player wage increases year on year to over and beyond our turnover. All of LJs progression was sheer forced improvement of the tools he had via increasing overheads without even getting rid of the deadwood he replaced.

Id usually point the finger squarely at MA. However, LJ seems to be at it again at Hibs, 30 players he's used, in 6 months. For contrast, St Mirren, in fifth, have used 22 players.

He's an OK Coach, but a horrific manager in that he's doesnt have a set system and focuses on countering the opposition through a range of differing ideas, massively over complicating player instructions, leading to a lack of clear identity on the pitch. We saw it time and again, game after game. Once the luck runs out, and his teams lose the small margins, the bad runs starts and he struggled horrifically to recover from them. The second he finds a system that works, he sticks with it until it stutters, and rather than adapt it, starts from scratch again and again until he finds one that works, rinse and repeat.

He'll be sacked from Hibs before the end of the season.

Apologies for the rant, but I think a few people are really rose tinting the cup run season and misremembering some of the utter squalor from the following two seasons, Webster's mazy dribbles aside.

Fairly sure the owners 29 year old son is in charge of recruiting players at Hibs!! God knows what credentials he has for that role, when will clubs (ours included) start to look at this area as where they are failing rather than the manager all the time. 
easy to slag LJ off here but he had to sell every single one of his best players off. 

[headhunter]

14 minutes ago, Rob k said:

Fairly sure the owners 29 year old son is in charge of recruiting players at Hibs!! God knows what credentials he has for that role, when will clubs (ours included) start to look at this area as where they are failing rather than the manager all the time. 
easy to slag LJ off here but he had to sell every single one of his best players off. 

I'd classify myself as one of LJs strongest critics but I must disagree that he had to sell his best players. Reid, Bryan & Flint all caught the eye in taking City into the Top 2 in the first half of 2017/18 plus the cup run. I think they all had their heads turned by agents saying they could engineer moves in the summer of 2018 and I believe this played some part in the collapse of form for the last 20 games of the season. They all wanted to leave. Whether City did enough to keep them is a separate argument. It is no argument that Webster was a massive upgrade on Flint and when he left summer of 2019 there is not a single non-parachute payment club in the Championship that would not cash in the on the uplift in value that presented itself and then add to this the [probable] quadrupling of wages for the player, it left the club no option.

Don't make excuses for LJ

[AshtonGreat]

16 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

Back the man who deserves the backing, or bring in your mate and throw money at him. 

Still Lansdown’s biggest mistake in his tenure here. 

None of this surprises me. 

He almost got us into the play-offs and also got us to a Carabao Cup semi-final