2 UP 2 ALL.

[Port Said Red]

8 hours ago, pillred said:

The other way around we are happy, but as it turned out ( as I, unfortunately, thought it would) we are left deflated all the excuses in the world can be trotted out but in the end, the city did what the city do and personally, I'm just growing a little weary at the inevitability of It, as a season ticket seller I'm not sure if it prompts people to buy or like me they will think how come a team like Boro who themselves have not been in the top flight for ages and do not receive PP can look so superior to us for long periods. 

Boro were desperate and threw everything at us, we still have a depleted side, and let's face it there was little on that game for us. 

We matched a strong team without several key players, and it was cracking game with both sides playing really good football. How you can say they looked superior I don't know. 

[Port Said Red]

18 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

This season we've led games 23 times. From those 23 leads we've cashed in 13 wins, lost 3, and drawn 3. In terms of points taken from winning positions we're 13th in the division (46 points). Average and not too bad really.

We've been behind 14 times and have come back to win once (last week), got back on level terms 4 times, and continued losing all the way to the final whistle 14 times. 7 points claimed.

Most football teams win once they're ahead and lose once they're behind. We're not unusual at all and if you think we are then you're letting your own anecdotal pessimistically biased "evidence" determine your "facts".

Numbers above are from transfermarkt:

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/punktenachfuehrung/wettbewerb/GB2

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/punktenachrueckstand/wettbewerb/GB2/sort/siege

Did 4 of the games not finish?

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Whilst we were without several first team players, if you look at the number of appearances and experience of today's starting 11, it was hardly a bunch of inexperienced kids, was it? 

Our two holding midfielders are Premier League winners ffs. 

Two of the forwards are ex-Premier League too. 

Millwall, Luton, PNE, Blackburn and Coventry out-performing us this season, nuts isn't it? 

They maybe higher up the table ....at the moment but ..... we have beat Preston and Blackburn at home and away, drew both with Coventry, won and lost v Luton and lost and drew with Wall; so we are not a million miles away from them in the table and def not in results.

Cornicks performance yesterday gives me hope for next season as does the fact that we did it without some of our top players.

If as likely we lose our most valuable asset this summer NP will no doubt invest much more wisely than prev managers have and as yesterday proved we can manage without him.

We are not far away atm and after this next transfer window I expect to be much closer to the top teams in this div, next season and challenging the top six for most of it.

The affects of SL`s prev poor manager selection choices are at last passing and has got lucky with NP better times ahead for sure.

[ExiledAjax]

Just now, Port Said Red said:

Did 4 of the games not finish?

It's times leading, not games led. I assume that we led some games twice.

You can also of course lead a game, then trail in the same game, and so that game can show up in both "points from winning" and "points from losing".

Our 3-3 draw with Blackpool early this season shows this. We went 1-0 down, then got back level, then went 2-1 down, then went 2-3 up, then finally drew.

So that's 2 times losing and one winning, but just one result.

Apologies if you were being tongue in cheek and knew all this. I couldn't tell.

[Port Said Red]

Looking at this thread it looks like @pillred went 1-0 up and was well in the lead, but he was easily pegged back and has ended up on the losing side. 

I for one am fed up with this, I wonder what I am paying my £5 supporter fee for.

[TedsHeadIs Red]

Come on Pillred, it’s time to get up and get back on this thread.

We’re missing you. 

[cidercity1987]

56 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

This season we've led games 23 times. From those 23 leads we've cashed in 13 wins, lost 3, and drawn 3. In terms of points taken from winning positions we're 13th in the division (46 points). Average and not too bad really.

We've been behind 14 times and have come back to win once (last week), got back on level terms 4 times, and continued losing all the way to the final whistle 14 times. 7 points claimed.

Most football teams win once they're ahead and lose once they're behind. We're not unusual at all and if you think we are then you're letting your own anecdotal pessimistically biased "evidence" determine your "facts".

Numbers above are from transfermarkt:

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/punktenachfuehrung/wettbewerb/GB2

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/punktenachrueckstand/wettbewerb/GB2/sort/siege

OP is off is head but yes we still do have a problem holding on to leads.

Ahead 23 times won 13

Behind 14 times lost 14

As per your stats

Definitely something to continue working on, where we would be with those 10 extra wins arghhhh

[ExiledAjax]

8 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

OP is off is head but yes we still do have a problem holding on to leads.

Ahead 23 times won 13

Behind 14 times lost 14

As per your stats

Definitely something to continue working on, where we would be with those 10 extra wins arghhhh

Yes we can work on it, but it doesn't quite work like the bit in bold. As I said to @Port Said Red these numbers count individual times when a team is leading/losing. 

For example Luton have led games 30 times, and have won 19 games from that position. That doesn't mean they could have ahd another 11 wins.

These numbers are tricky and if misinterpreted are potentially incredibly misleading. I don't think they indicate whether we or any other team is good or bad, but they do indicate how @pillred is probably focussing on the wrong thing if he wants to show where we can improve.

Edited April 11, 2023 by ExiledAjax

[BCFCGav]

While I'm not frustrated by yesterday as it's a good performance and at this stage of the season, that's the priority, I get OP's general frustration. We do drop too many points from leading, we're division high in that regard I believe? 

[NOTBLUE]

Enjoyed yesterday,and whilst it’s disappointing to loose a two goal lead, I was far more disappointed to only draw with Reading,who were truly shocking,than Boro who are a decent side.

[Numero Uno]

1 hour ago, cidercity1987 said:

OP is off is head but yes we still do have a problem holding on to leads.

Ahead 23 times won 13

Behind 14 times lost 14

As per your stats

Definitely something to continue working on, where we would be with those 10 extra wins arghhhh

Whilst your general point is correct we've won at least once this season after being behind...........short term memory loss I reckon (very short term)!!

Not even Man City win EVERY game they have led in but if we had turned half of those leads into wins we would be looking at a serious play-off shot but the fact we haven't merely proves the point we aren't ready for that yet. We aren't consistent enough, defensively in particular, when we don't have the majority of our strongest first XI available, it's that simple. That's no criticism on the rest either, it's just where we are and after the shite I've been watching for a good few years I'm more than happy to be where we are right now.

[cityexile]

1 hour ago, cidercity1987 said:

OP is off is head but yes we still do have a problem holding on to leads.

Ahead 23 times won 13

Behind 14 times lost 14

As per your stats

Definitely something to continue working on, where we would be with those 10 extra wins arghhhh

It is I agree something, but there is a typo in the data posted. Following the link we have actually been behind 19 times, losing 14 of them. Otherwise it would mean we had never come back from behind. It remains a relative weakness as there are only 4 teams gaining less points than us when behind.

As an aside, the team that has got most points in the whole league from losing positions is actually Middlesbrough, so we were far from the first.

[italian dave]

The other side to this coin: I haven’t researched this as diligently as @ExiledAjax, but I believe that Boro this season have gained 22 points from a losing position - more than any other side in the Championship. 

They’re adept at doing what they did last night: and when you’ve got that sort of record you still have the confidence to remain patient, keep plugging away, and do what they did second half. 

Edit - @cityexile - ha ha, after three pages we both have the same thought at the same time. Sorry, you posted just as I was typing mine!

Edited April 11, 2023 by italian dave

[1960maaan]

Frustrating and annoying as it is, it happens. Losing a lead is annoying but we have improved from the last few years and you have to add context in this one. One fit CB, Pring has done well but his positioning has to be questioned at times, and pretty much bare bones apart from up front. We deserved to win IMO, and only a spell after their first goal did we really look rattled. 
2-0 being a dangerous score is a cliché for a reason. Yesterday Huddersfield, Watford, WBA , Orient & Eastleigh all 2-0 up and dropped points , for about 10-15 minutes we went back to the team under LJ or Holden and sat in. Another annoying thing was our unwillingness to just lump a clearance, sometimes we were a little passive in defending. Pearson made a couple of changes and we got back into it again, when previous seasons we sit and just wait for the inevitable . We actually could/should have won it, Zak was unlucky as the ball hit him with little chance to adjust. Another day and a little luck that goes in. 

Over all a good performance by a side with nothing to play for, and a very stretched and patched up squad, against a side desperate for points towards a playoff push. No coasting to the end for Nige's side.

[ExiledAjax]

58 minutes ago, cityexile said:

there is a typo in the data posted

Yet more proof that I should have my morning coffee before I post.

[Davefevs]

12 hours ago, pillred said:

I have unfortunately but can't understand why a club like Boro who themselves have had no PP are in so much of a better position than us.

No PPs this season, but have been in the PL since we came up in 15/16 and benefitted from £75m in PPs in the time since.  That’s 4-5 years of pure football income in our case.

That money has helped them keep a stronger squad together, supplementing it with new players as they churn that squad.

They haven’t had to go through a rebuild like we’ve had to.

Of course it’s disappointing to let a 2-0 lead slip, but shit happens in football.  By the same token, we turned around our first loss to a win on Friday (a Good Friday), and have started to show we can comeback from a goal down, or stay in games with an under strength line-up.

I’m not sure I’ve heard any excuses trotted out by the people that matter, e.g. Nige, just a reflection of a good, entertaining game where we matched and in some cases bettered a team going for promotion.

I also don’t think they looked superior to us for large periods either.  Just because they have possession in our final third, doesn’t mean “superiority”, it just shows a different approach to the game.  When we have had possession like this in recent games versus low-block teams, nobody talks about our superiority, normally it’s written in the negative, ie moan, moan, moan, we aren’t creative, blah, blah, blah.

For all their “superiority” we created chances quite easily, more than they did.  We were able to defend narrow, and then spring counterattacks.  I didn’t sit there biting my nails like I have done in previous seasons, e.g. Forest (h) last season.  That was when I sensed inevitability, I don’t anymore.  We didn’t hang on at 2-2 like in previous years, we still took the game to them.  We missed 2 good (one gilt-edged) chances (Vyner and Weimann header) in the latter stages.  We were still strong, not out on our arses like in previous seasons.

We’ve come a long way, albeit in a very gradual way.  It seems more “inevitable” to me that we will continue to progress under the current structure.

That probably sells season tickets.

[bcfc01]

12 hours ago, pillred said:

Did you actually see the stats I'm sorry but they did look superior to us for long periods which annoyed the hell out of me, and why are they better placed financially?

Stats from Flashscore;

Possession   City 40%   Boro 60%

Xg   City 3.36   Boro 1.59

Shots at goal    City 16    Boro 10

Shots on goal   City 7   Boro 4

I get the disappointment at losing a two goal lead, but the game itself was one of the best this season imo against probably the best attacking side at AG this season. 

Good result imo and several positives came out of that game as well, not least the performance of Cornick.

 

[T R]

We just picked up 4 points over the easter period and to be honest I didn't expect any from either game. I would say that is very positive in my book. I haven't made a comment on this forum for a couple years now because of the negativity. I thought I'd have a quick look this morning hoping to find some positive comments about the game but no. It drives me away from here but not from my club. 

[22A]

A draw at Stoke followed by beating 'boro' and we'd all be content with Easter's results.

[pillred]

1 hour ago, 22A said:

A draw at Stoke followed by beating 'boro' and we'd all be content with Easter's results.

And by the same token had we come from 2 nil down to draw last night I would have been a lot happier but we didn't, it's just perception with hindsight it was probably not a bad result it's just the way it panned out which made it look disappointing.

[pillred]

6 hours ago, BigAl&Toby said:

Careful. No one on here likes anyone who dare criticise the main man…..

Meanwhile @pillred you feeling better this morning?

I, for one, is looking forward to another perfectly punctuated post…..

I am as a matter of fact, and perfectly punctuated post. (Is) you taking the p? :laugh:.

Edited April 11, 2023 by pillred

[22A]

Their fans are disappointed with Monday's game as well; https://www.oneboro.co.uk/forum/topic/13428-bristol-city-v-middlesbrough-2-2-ramsey-crooks/page/35/#comments

[BigAl&Toby]

2 hours ago, pillred said:

I am as a matter of fact, and perfectly punctuated post. (Is) you taking the p? :laugh:.

I is!

And for what it’s worth I was disappointed too. Not so much yesterday as I was with piss poor performances at Cardiff, Huddersfield and Luton.

All games me, the latex robin mask and my boy attended.

And where, if we’d put in a non-piss poor performance my Top 6 bet would still very much been alive.

Anyway disappointment, posting nonsense and taking flak are bed buddies of mine!

[Sir Geoff]

5 hours ago, Davefevs said:

No PPs this season, but have been in the PL since we came up in 15/16 and benefitted from £75m in PPs in the time since.  That’s 4-5 years of pure football income in our case.

That money has helped them keep a stronger squad together, supplementing it with new players as they churn that squad.

They haven’t had to go through a rebuild like we’ve had to.

Of course it’s disappointing to let a 2-0 lead slip, but shit happens in football.  By the same token, we turned around our first loss to a win on Friday (a Good Friday), and have started to show we can comeback from a goal down, or stay in games with an under strength line-up.

I’m not sure I’ve heard any excuses trotted out by the people that matter, e.g. Nige, just a reflection of a good, entertaining game where we matched and in some cases bettered a team going for promotion.

I also don’t think they looked superior to us for large periods either.  Just because they have possession in our final third, doesn’t mean “superiority”, it just shows a different approach to the game.  When we have had possession like this in recent games versus low-block teams, nobody talks about our superiority, normally it’s written in the negative, ie moan, moan, moan, we aren’t creative, blah, blah, blah.

For all their “superiority” we created chances quite easily, more than they did.  We were able to defend narrow, and then spring counterattacks.  I didn’t sit there biting my nails like I have done in previous seasons, e.g. Forest (h) last season.  That was when I sensed inevitability, I don’t anymore.  We didn’t hang on at 2-2 like in previous years, we still took the game to them.  We missed 2 good (one gilt-edged) chances (Vyner and Weimann header) in the latter stages.  We were still strong, not out on our arses like in previous seasons.

We’ve come a long way, albeit in a very gradual way.  It seems more “inevitable” to me that we will continue to progress under the current structure.

That probably sells season tickets.

£20 m for Djed Spence will have helped too.

[Mr Popodopolous]

11 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

£20 m for Djed Spence will have helped too.

Tavernier for £10m likewise. Free transfer and academy product- think the final Spence fee or the up front portion between £10-15m, probably an already banked profit of closer to £25m than £20m.

Edited April 11, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[1960maaan]

On 11/04/2023 at 10:55, Davefevs said:

We missed 2 good (one gilt-edged) chances (Vyner and Weimann header) in the latter stages.

Felt sorry for Vyner, good chance but not easy. Comes over the heads of two players, may have even got a touch, he just had to get on the end of it and hope, there's no chance to adjust. Weimann's was in some ways a better chance IMO. He could see the ball coming all the way, he seems to try and set someone else up instead of going for goal. 

[E.G.Red]

On 11/04/2023 at 10:55, Davefevs said:

No PPs this season, but have been in the PL since we came up in 15/16 and benefitted from £75m in PPs in the time since.  That’s 4-5 years of pure football income in our case.

That money has helped them keep a stronger squad together, supplementing it with new players as they churn that squad.

They haven’t had to go through a rebuild like we’ve had to.

Of course it’s disappointing to let a 2-0 lead slip, but shit happens in football.  By the same token, we turned around our first loss to a win on Friday (a Good Friday), and have started to show we can comeback from a goal down, or stay in games with an under strength line-up.

I’m not sure I’ve heard any excuses trotted out by the people that matter, e.g. Nige, just a reflection of a good, entertaining game where we matched and in some cases bettered a team going for promotion.

I also don’t think they looked superior to us for large periods either.  Just because they have possession in our final third, doesn’t mean “superiority”, it just shows a different approach to the game.  When we have had possession like this in recent games versus low-block teams, nobody talks about our superiority, normally it’s written in the negative, ie moan, moan, moan, we aren’t creative, blah, blah, blah.

For all their “superiority” we created chances quite easily, more than they did.  We were able to defend narrow, and then spring counterattacks.  I didn’t sit there biting my nails like I have done in previous seasons, e.g. Forest (h) last season.  That was when I sensed inevitability, I don’t anymore.  We didn’t hang on at 2-2 like in previous years, we still took the game to them.  We missed 2 good (one gilt-edged) chances (Vyner and Weimann header) in the latter stages.  We were still strong, not out on our arses like in previous seasons.

We’ve come a long way, albeit in a very gradual way.  It seems more “inevitable” to me that we will continue to progress under the current structure.

That probably sells season tickets.

Also Boro have 5 PL loanees and a championship (WBA) Loanee whereas ours,are all our players Inc a good mix of academy players

[Clutton Caveman]

On 10/04/2023 at 22:17, pillred said:

Did you actually see the stats I'm sorry but they did look superior to us for long periods which annoyed the hell out of me, and why are they better placed financially?

I think we have to take a few steps back. NP arrived after the big push by SL to get promotion. Spent loads on the wrong players and trusted the wrong manager and CEO. We were facing penalties for FFP. We had too many players on high wages not only playing badly but also wrecking the dressing room.

Wind forward, just about all of the dead wood gone without having to pay out contracts, coaching team improved, style of play improved and hungry local lads entertaining us. Looks like we will lose the crown jewel of AS but that was always inevitable. Looks like we can improve our numbers, get in 3 or 4 good up and coming new players and challenge for play offs next year.

We are well and truly a work in progress but I would give NP and his team 9 out of 10 for steering us to this position. 

Boro have not needed this ground up surgery and so why are we surprised that they are ahead of us on their journey?

Take a look at Reading as an alternative. I am very happy to be where we are compared them them and many other Championship teams. The season ticket seller has already got my money.

[NcnsBcfc]

I think the difference for me with this game is how we responded when Boro pulled it back to 2-2.

They had the momentum, and were ready to push for a winner. But something in the team clicked, we got our resolve back, and in the end pushed hard for a winner ourselves.

That shows to me the difference in the current team, the influence of people like James, and King in the centre; and the determination not to lose a game that could easily have run away from us.

I think most people can see that the attitude of this current bunch is a million miles away from the one that NP inherited, and that is something we can hopefully continue to build on for next season.

[Searles]

We aren’t playing for anything other than form and a mid table league position, therefore losing a 2 goal league doesn’t impact as much as if we were fighting promotion/relegation.