Millwall away match thread

[RedM]

Gutted I'm not able to make this game. Will be watching if I can

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, And Its Smith said:

What do we reckon to the team today? 
Pring or Roberts

Sykes or Cornick

Bell or Mehmeti 

                    Max

Tanner.  Vyner. Dickie. Pring 

       Knight.  James. Williams 

      Sykes       Wells.       Bell 

I'd mostly go with that given what we have available although the midfield 3 faltered v Preston, their shape had a bit to do with it too..

Perhaps that side or set up better counter attacking on the road but I have reservation about the midfield...lacks a little bit of craft and possession.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

13 hours ago, Piccolo said:

We certainly have our idiots at Millwall, but it isn’t quite as ‘black and white’ as outsiders tend to think. 

Some of Millwall’s most respected hooligans have been of Black and Turkish ethnicity.

 

 

I've been struggling with this .

 

[chowie]

20 hours ago, Piccolo said:

Millwall fan here, and former writer for the history article for the match day programme.

I can confirm, Millwall have never been relegated from the Football League. Our last spell in the bottom tier was back in 1965. Our lowest ever finish in the four-tier format was 9^th in 1958/59. The club did have to sadly apply for re-election in 1950, having finished 22^nd in the Third Division (South).

Indeed, as you can see, the post-war period was the worst in Millwall’s history. This is made even more heart-breaking by the fact that it followed the most promising period in the club’s story. Between the two world wars, Millwall were one of the best supported clubs in the entire country. The Den was at the centre of a huge working-class community, which supplied labour to the London Docks, the very heartbeat of the British Empire. Crowds of 30-40,000 came to watch important matches even in the doldrums of the Third and Second tiers, 40-50,000 came to watch big cup games or London derbies. Even the pre-season match between Millwall Blues and Millwall Reds (a first team v reserve team game) attracted 15-20,000.

I mention this, as know that Bristol City are very similar in being a club that had the potential to go on and be a truly big club. Neither Millwall, or it seems Bristol City, ever caught the breaks needed. Indeed, in the late 1930s Millwall were building real momentum, the club were signing past and future internationals, crowds were building and a run to the FA Cup Semi-Finals saw First Division sides Fulham, Chelsea, Derby County and that season’s eventual First Division Champions, Manchester City, fall at The Den. In the 1938/39 season, 37,115 came to Cold Blow Lane to see how Millwall would fair against hot favourites for promotion and league leaders Blackburn Rovers. The Lions won 4-1. Rovers would finish as champions and so many at The Den that day thought that surely the next season would be the one in which Millwall finally joined the top table. However, Hitler had other ideas.

The London Docklands that surrounded the club suffered greatly during the Second World War. The Den was hit by a German bomb in one of, if not the very last, attacks of the Blitz. The insurance company refused to pay out, as it had more pressing claims to cover. When ground was reopened, still with a bomb crater, a discarded cigarette burnt down the main stand. Again, no insurance money was available. The club went from being one of the richest in the land and on the way up in the late 1930s, to being broke and ground sharing after the war. The application for re-election and then the indignity of becoming founding members of the new Division Four in 1958 were lingering symptoms of the impact of the war on the club. The decline of the docks then saw an end to Millwall ever becoming one of the big London clubs for good. At least Bristol City still have the opportunity to become a big, regional club ala Brighton & Hove Albion. We are far too hemmed in, by Chelsea to the west, Palace to the south, Charlton to the east and only a short tube ride away from Arsenal, Spurs and West Ham north of the river. In fact, it is pretty amazing that we are still able to draw 12-15,000 fans to matches, given our complete lack of success, horrific reputation and the geography outlined above. No-one could accuse the children and grandchildren of the old dockers who didn’t give up on the club in the post-war period of not being passionate about their club at least.

As an aside, I always find it funny that many of the most interesting history snippets about Millwall are often left out of these reviews, not just on football forums, but by the likes of Sky and the BBC too. For example…

Millwall are the only club in England to have been bestowed a nickname based on footballing endeavor. Nicknamed the ‘Dockers’ on account of the occupation of many of the original players and supporters, Millwall were christened the ‘Lions of the South’ by the sporting press because they were the first working-class club from the south to give the dominant northern and midlands Football League sides of the late Victorian era a bloody nose in the FA Cup. Millwall not only knocked out the famous Preston North End club, plus the mighty Everton in runs to the Semi-Finals of the FA Cup in 1900 and 1903, but also defeated one of the most dominant forces English football has ever seen in the Aston Villa side of the turn of the century. Villa were five times English Champions between 1893 and 1900, as well as FA Cup winners on three occasions between 1887 and 1897. They were double winners in 1896/97. But could not knock-out the East End team over three matches. Millwall’s 2-1 win in the second reply cemented Millwall’s image as the ‘Lions’.

Indeed, no other club has knocked out more sides from a higher division than Millwall have in the FA Cup. Millwall are the ultimate giant killers, with FA Cup holders and League Champions all being mauled by the Lions over the years. Premier League Champions Leicester City were the latest scalp to be added to an illustrious list, when the then League One Lions beat a strong Foxes side in the last minute of the 5^th round tie at The Den, despite playing the entire second half with ten men.

Other interesting facts (if you are still reading!) that often get overlooked are…

Millwall are the only club to go undefeated at home for an entire season on five separate occasions, and across four separate divisions. Once the club went 59 consecutive home games without defeat between 1964 and 1967, consisting of 43 wins and 16 draws, scoring 112 goals, and conceding just 33 with 35 clean sheets. Even on moving from the intimidating Old Den, the club still has a very strong home record. Millwall only lost one league home game in the first season at the ‘new’ Den, unfortunately it was the first ever league game in SE16, a 4-1 spanking live on TV to Southend United. In fact, fans only saw 5 defeats in the first 46 home league matches in the new surroundings.

Millwall were the first club to have a community scheme and partnership with its local authority. Long before sports washing became a thing in the 1980s. Furthermore, in was in this period Millwall also became the first club to open an official family stand and creche, as well form an affiliation with a women’s team – the Millwall Lionesses. The Lionesses were true pioneers of the women’s game in this country.

Millwall hold the record for most official fans at both the new and old Wembley. 47,349 Millwall fans officially attended the Auto-Windscreens Shield Cup Final v Wigan Athletic in 1999. They were also more in the corporate boxes. In 2009, 49,661 Lions fans attended the League One Play-Off Final v Scunthorpe United. Neither of these records have been beaten by official sales. Both turnouts are no doubt a nod to Millwall’s history as well supported club when the docks were thriving, with everyone connected to the club wanting to see us on our first official visits to the new and old stadiums. *Millwall did play Chelsea in a Football League War Cup (South) Final at Wembley in front of 90,000 spectators.

Millwall were the first southern club to be offered a place in the Football League in 1894. They were probably seen as a great coup, being an inner-city London side, with good support and a decent ground. However, the club turned down the offer, as it was pioneering its own professional league – the Southern League. The Millwall directors believing that competitive matches v the likes of old rivals Arsenal and hopefully other London clubs and decent southern sides like Southampton would be more attractive than playing provincial sides like Darwen, Burton Swifts and Grimsby Town. Travel costs were also seen as a big factor. However, despite promises of helping to pioneer the Southern League idea with Millwall, Woolwich Arsenal (a poorly supported club on the Kent borders at the time) accepted the Football League’s offer instead… and the rest, as they say, is history!

Who knows… a few of you may read that on the train to London to past the time.

Re the actual match. It will be very emotional. I just hope our players can handle the atmosphere. I do not foresee any trouble, but Millwall still remains a place that if you go looking for trouble, you will find it (bit like Bristol!). I recommend drinking around London Bridge and then tubing it to Bermondsey / Canada Water if you are sensible walking through Bermondsey. Or you can go to Surrey Docks (Quays) and drink at the Wetherspoons there, as often see away fans around there and if they create no bother, they get no bother. I have seen young lads thinking that it was like a trip to Watford or Reading, where singing ‘XYZ is a shithole I wanna go home’ and all those obnoxious songs wouldn’t draw attention… around Bermondsey they will. For those asking about avoiding main pubs… as in hooligan pubs… I doubt your Google maps will take you past any of these, as they tend to be more off the main roads. Saying that, walking past the Blue Anchor or Ancient Forresters on the main roads will still require some respect for the locals inside. I would not drink in them if I was you, just because they are very partisan and will be very busy Saturday.

The Bermondsey Beer Mile is pretty good for drinking and avoiding the football crowds – look it up.

Great read thank you.

My Great Grandfather Alf 'Jasper' Geddes played for Millwall & Bristol City, I think this picture is displayed at The Den somewhere (or used to be)

Signed to Bristol City from Millwall (via Bedminster) in 1899 then stayed here and my Nan was born 11 years later.

Edited August 12, 2023 by chowie
Got dates wrong by a year

[Coxy27]

Made a separate thread but looks likes it'll get buried pretty quick and no interest yet, but...

I have two tickets for today available if anyone's still able to make it!

[Piccolo]

38 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

I've been struggling with this .

 

Whether people like it or not, hooliganism is a part of football fan culture… and in places like inner city London, as well as Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds and Bristol, these people do command respect amongst many of their community peers. 

However, what I meant by it was that people automatically equate hooligans with skinhead White blokes, especially Millwall hooligans. The reality was and is very different. Ian ‘Tiny’ Garwood is a terrace legend at Millwall… and being a very cool, Black south London geezer, he could not be further from the stereotype. (Pictured)

I would argue the Millwall hooligan scene is far more inclusive than the BBC, law firms, banks etc.

And as hard as it is to accept for many, a lot of the hooligans I have meet whilst following Millwall are actually pretty decent blokes… they just happen to like a punch up with like minded individuals. Indeed, some have been more knowledgable than most on football history etc. 

[Piccolo]

33 minutes ago, chowie said:

Great read thank you.

My Great Grandfather Alf 'Jasper' Geddes played for Millwall & Bristol City, I think this picture is displayed at The Den somewhere (or used to be)

Signed to Bristol City from Millwall (via Bedminster) in 1899 then stayed here and my Nan was born 11 years later.

Ah yes, I did a history piece on him for the match day programme when we played Bristol City a few seasons ago. I will try and dig it out when I get a moment. 

[IAmNick]

Phew, one of my biggest concerns when I or others get physically attacked or intimidated due to the football team I support is whether it's by an appropriately racially diverse group reflective of the nearby area. That really sets me at ease for future Millwall trips!

[mozo]

23 hours ago, ChrisBW said:

Need to compete physically something we have struggled with in the past

Are you referring to our fans? 

[archie andrews]

11 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Phew, one of my biggest concerns when I or others get physically attacked or intimidated due to the football team I support is whether it's by an appropriately racially diverse group reflective of the nearby area. That really sets me at ease for future Millwall trips!

??? 

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

24 minutes ago, Piccolo said:

Whether people like it or not, hooliganism is a part of football fan culture… and in places like inner city London, as well as Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds and Bristol, these people do command respect amongst many of their community peers. 

However, what I meant by it was that people automatically equate hooligans with skinhead White blokes, especially Millwall hooligans. The reality was and is very different. Ian ‘Tiny’ Garwood is a terrace legend at Millwall… and being a very cool, Black south London geezer, he could not be further from the stereotype. (Pictured)

I would argue the Millwall hooligan scene is far more inclusive than the BBC, law firms, banks etc.

And as hard as it is to accept for many, a lot of the hooligans I have meet whilst following Millwall are actually pretty decent blokes… they just happen to like a punch up with like minded individuals. Indeed, some have been more knowledgable than most on football history etc. 

hooligan

noun

 

1. a violent young troublemaker, typically one of a gang.

    

   So going back quite a few years I was having my usual pre-match pint or two at The Try Again - a really peaceful City pub when a small group of Millwall supporters  burst in hit the nearest people and ran out. One was a young lad and the other was an old fella who suffered a cut above his eye. These were not "like minded people"- just people wanting to watch a game of football in peace.

    

   Hooligans pretending to support any team be it Bristol City or Millwall are, imo, absolute scum and do not deserve respect from anyone. If they want to fight then do it elsewhere and not in pretence of being a football fan. 

    

   I like your history lesson but equally despise your comment regarding respect for these sub humans and NO - they are not "decent blokes".

    

[Piccolo]

24 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Phew, one of my biggest concerns when I or others get physically attacked or intimidated due to the football team I support is whether it's by an appropriately racially diverse group reflective of the nearby area. That really sets me at ease for future Millwall trips!

That was not the point I was making. I thought I explained that I was talking about stereotypes - as it was a reply to a post about inequality/diversity.


 

[Piccolo]

13 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

hooligan

 

noun

 

1. a violent young troublemaker, typically one of a gang.

    

   So going back quite a few years I was having my usual pre-match pint or two at The Try Again - a really peaceful City pub when a small group of Millwall supporters  burst in hit the nearest people and ran out. One was a young lad and the other was an old fella who suffered a cut above his eye. These were not "like minded people"- just people wanting to watch a game of football in peace.

    

   Hooligans pretending to support any team be it Bristol City or Millwall are, imo, absolute scum and do not deserve respect from anyone. If they want to fight then do it elsewhere and not in pretence of being a football fan. 

    

   I like your history lesson but equally despise your comment regarding respect for these sub humans and NO - they are not "decent blokes".

    

I did not say you had to respect them or that they deserve respect. I said that whether people like it or not, they do command respect from many in their communities… and this was linked to my challenge to the stereotype of all hooligans being right-wing White blokes. Ie Tiny commanded respect, despite him the opposite to the stereotype.

Furthermore, I said those that I had personally met… many seemed like decent blokes overall. They were firefighters, ex military, bank managers, one was a medic!! I cannot be sure, but they seemed only interested in like minded individuals. To be fair, this was in the late 90s and early 2000s, when I went away to most games. Perhaps things have changed, society feels a lot more obnoxious overall nowadays. I find most modern football crowds obnoxious now, sadly, not just the hooligans. 

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

2 minutes ago, Piccolo said:

I did not say you had to respect them or that they deserve respect. I said that whether people like it or not, they do command respect from many in their communities… and this was linked to my challenge to the stereotype of all hooligans being right-wing White blokes. Ie Tiny commanded respect, despite him the opposite to the stereotype.

Furthermore, I said those that I had personally met… many seemed like decent blokes overall. They were firefighters, ex military, bank managers, one was a medic!! I cannot be sure, but they seemed only interested in like minded individuals. To be fair, this was in the late 90s and early 2000s, when I went away to most games. Perhaps things have changed, society feels a lot more obnoxious overall nowadays. I find most modern football crowds obnoxious now, sadly, not just the hooligans. 

We'll  agree to disagree.

I hope you have an enjoyable  incident free match today and I'm sure that our fans will willingly show the respect to your former owner during his tribute.

[skinheadface]

Anyone drinking by London Bridge tube?.just arrived.

[Ashtongatered]

Down the bermondsey mile at the moment 

[Red Ferret]

1 hour ago, IAmNick said:

Phew, one of my biggest concerns when I or others get physically attacked or intimidated due to the football team I support is whether it's by an appropriately racially diverse group reflective of the nearby area. That really sets me at ease for future Millwall trips!

Me watching a group of hooligan diickheads kick the crap out of some 14 yr old away fans...

 

"What a wonderfully ethnically diverse group!  Bravo! Well done Millwall, so progressive"

[Red Ferret]

1 hour ago, Piccolo said:

That was not the point I was making. I thought I explained that I was talking about stereotypes - as it was a reply to a post about inequality/diversity.


 

 

Nobody gives a tit about how diverse your moron hooligan groups are

 

Wow, the guy kicking the sheet out of some innocent kid is a black bank manager. Amazing wow,  such respect 

Edited August 12, 2023 by Red Ferret

[cotswoldred2]

1 hour ago, Piccolo said:

I did not say you had to respect them or that they deserve respect. I said that whether people like it or not, they do command respect from many in their communities… and this was linked to my challenge to the stereotype of all hooligans being right-wing White blokes. Ie Tiny commanded respect, despite him the opposite to the stereotype.

Furthermore, I said those that I had personally met… many seemed like decent blokes overall. They were firefighters, ex military, bank managers, one was a medic!! I cannot be sure, but they seemed only interested in like minded individuals. To be fair, this was in the late 90s and early 2000s, when I went away to most games. Perhaps things have changed, society feels a lot more obnoxious overall nowadays. I find most modern football crowds obnoxious now, sadly, not just the hooligans. 

Utter toss.

[2015]

Attending alone today, should I be concerned? Judging by this thread I should be Let the numbskull idiots meet eachother and let the rest of us enjoy the Football

[ExiledAjax]

2 hours ago, Piccolo said:

They were firefighters, ex military, bank managers, one was a medic!!

I'd say that is a poor reflection on the recruitment standards of those jobs and institutions rather than a positive reflection on the character of the hooligans.

Semi-organised mob-violence aside, for me the big question in today's game is can we put out a front 6 that can play our own game, keep the ball moving on the deck, and create enough chances for our forwards to finish?

[George Rs]

[RUSSEL85]

Stunned Roberts isnt starting.

[Sarumred]

Pring's done nothing wrong so keeps his place.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Nice to see Sykes start, fancy he can get a few goals this season.

Weimann still injured I assume.

[CyderHead92]

6 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

What do we reckon to the team today? 
Pring or Roberts

Sykes or Cornick

Bell or Mehmeti 

                    Max

Tanner.  Vyner. Dickie. Pring 

       Knight.  James. Williams 

      Sykes       Wells.       Bell 

Bang on

[George Rs]

2 minutes ago, RUSSEL85 said:

Stunned Roberts isnt starting.

Probs thinks pringy has a more physical presence at the back 

[George Rs]

Also just to put it on record, this 84th minute Joe Bryan winner will be very painful after alex leaving this week.

[miketh2nd]

Love the over reaction on twitter about Roberts , good to see Sykes start . 

I hope Mehmeti gets a good amount of game time in the 2nd half , aswell as Roberts both played well in the week

[The Swan and Cemetery]

10 minutes ago, George Rs said:

Probs thinks pringy has a more physical presence at the back 

Also one of our best players last season, who didn’t have his best game against a very decent Championship side, when lots of others also below average. Roberts has no Championship experience and played very well against a poor League One team. Would be disappointed if NP saw that combination of factors as reason to drop Pring. 

Edited August 12, 2023 by The Swan and Cemetery