Leicester Away

[BS15_RED]

38 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

For me and this is tough to say, better than Cotts.

Also better than LJ.  I can only imagine how much Nige might’ve done with the support LJ got…and I can only imagine the number of pins being stuck into my effigy as I type this!!!

But Gary the pick, because he got us to the playoffs having win promotion with a hardworking squad.  He did it pretty quick too.  Nige is getting closer though.

All pretty much spot on imho, the only point that’s debatable is how much better Cotts would of done in that first season back up if he’d been successful in bringing in Harry Maguire and his other targets. But that’s a matter of conjecture, as we’ll never know for sure what really happened that summer.

Edited September 6, 2023 by BS15_RED

[GrahamC]

37 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

For me and this is tough to say, better than Cotts.

Also better than LJ.  I can only imagine how much Nige might’ve done with the support LJ got…and I can only imagine the number of pins being stuck into my effigy as I type this!!!

But Gary the pick, because he got us to the playoffs having win promotion with a hardworking squad.  He did it pretty quick too.  Nige is getting closer though.

Exactly where I am.

Gary Johnson achieved more than any manager at City in over 40 years. Opinions are opinions but that’s a fact. If you don’t rate him it can’t be based on results.

I love Cotts but he didn’t get much of an opportunity in the Championship for all the reasons we know, still think we’d have stayed up under him but obvious the rules changed when he left.

Which leads me on to LJ, the Man U game was incredible but he received backing like no manager before or since & didn’t achieve much with it. 17/18 side was a truly excellent one, though.

[Merrick's Marvels]

2 hours ago, JBFC II said:

Presuming you’ve been alive for the whole of this century.

Are you claiming Pearson has been better than both Johnson’s and Cotts?

Are you claiming because Johnson Snr delivered the playoffs and Jnr a couple of top 10 finishes (after blowing the playoffs minimum btw), they're better than Pearson? In what universe, apart from the cloud cuckooland you live in, are the circumstances in which the Johnsons managed us comparable to the situation Pearson has had to deal with? 

Pearson is an infinitely superior man-manager, culture-builder, mentor.

Pearson has rebuilt our club from the ground up, with foundations that can last long after he's gone - the values and culture he's established will serve the young players he brings through for the rest of their careers. Exactly the sort of values and culture a club like ours require. 

Love them as I do, neither Gary Johnson or Steve Cotterill built a culture or established values in the same way.

Gary Johnson squeezed the maximum out of limited players that took us very close ("limited" is unkind to one or two talented players in that team). He was exactly what we needed when he arrived (the pissheads either sobered up or funked off). But what was his legacy? 

Steve Cotterill gave us the best season we'll ever have in Div 3. To be a footballer in that dressing room must have been quite something - esprit de corps on steroids. Amazing. But what was his legacy? 

Johnson Jr? His legacy? Let's not derail the thread! Suffice to say, he talked about having emotional intelligence, then demonstrated precious little of it. How very LJ - talk the talk, can't walk the walk. Pearson meanwhile.... 

All 3 left a team and club going backwards (perhaps stalled tbf, in Gary's case).

Pearson's legacy, if he leaves next May, will likely be a team going forward or at least primed to do so - and underpinned by the sort of values and culture that our club need to succeed. 

If the owner can't understand any of this, it demonstrates how little he understands - again. And if he can't see that, in our current straightened circumstances, Pearson is exactly the type of manager we need, then god help him - and us. 

Edited September 6, 2023 by Merrick's Marvels

[southside]

Remember the pub in Leicester we used to frequent in the old Div 1 days?

[fisherrich]

3 hours ago, JBFC II said:

Presuming you’ve been alive for the whole of this century.

Are you claiming Pearson has been better than both Johnson’s and Cotts?

Yes! 
@Merrick’sMarvels saved me a long winded reply. Info above fyi.

Edited September 6, 2023 by fisherrich

[JAWS]

1 hour ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Are you claiming because Johnson Snr delivered the playoffs and Jnr a couple of top 10 finishes (after blowing the playoffs minimum btw), they're better than Pearson? In what universe, apart from the cloud cuckooland you live in, are the circumstances in which the Johnsons managed us comparable to the situation Pearson has had to deal with? 

Pearson is an infinitely superior man-manager, culture-builder, mentor.

Pearson has rebuilt our club from the ground up, with foundations that can last long after he's gone - the values and culture he's established will serve the young players he brings through for the rest of their careers. Exactly the sort of values and culture a club like ours require. 

Love them as I do, neither Gary Johnson or Steve Cotterill built a culture or established values in the same way.

Gary Johnson squeezed the maximum out of limited players that took us very close ("limited" is unkind to one or two talented players in that team). He was exactly what we needed when he arrived (the pissheads either sobered up or funked off). But what was his legacy? 

Steve Cotterill gave us the best season we'll ever have in Div 3. To be a footballer in that dressing room must have been quite something - esprit de corps on steroids. Amazing. But what was his legacy? 

Johnson Jr? His legacy? Let's not derail the thread! Suffice to say, he talked about having emotional intelligence, then demonstrated precious little of it. How very LJ - talk the talk, can't walk the walk. Pearson meanwhile.... 

All 3 left a team and club going backwards (perhaps stalled tbf, in Gary's case).

Pearson's legacy, if he leaves next May, will likely be a team going forward or at least primed to do so - and underpinned by the sort of values and culture that our club need to succeed. 

If the owner can't understand any of this, it demonstrates how little he understands - again. And if he can't see that, in our current straightened circumstances, Pearson is exactly the type of manager we need, then god help him - and us. 

take a bow that man! It emphasises how clueless lansclown is. He just doesn't get it but still, after 20 odd years, thinks he knows best! Let's hope a buyer is forthcoming very soon. In the meantime we have to applaud NP's patience & perseverance. Let's hope it doesn't run out before said buyer is found. 

[JBFC II]

12 hours ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Are you claiming because Johnson Snr delivered the playoffs and Jnr a couple of top 10 finishes (after blowing the playoffs minimum btw), they're better than Pearson? In what universe, apart from the cloud cuckooland you live in, are the circumstances in which the Johnsons managed us comparable to the situation Pearson has had to deal with? 

Pearson is an infinitely superior man-manager, culture-builder, mentor.

Pearson has rebuilt our club from the ground up, with foundations that can last long after he's gone - the values and culture he's established will serve the young players he brings through for the rest of their careers. Exactly the sort of values and culture a club like ours require. 

Love them as I do, neither Gary Johnson or Steve Cotterill built a culture or established values in the same way.

Gary Johnson squeezed the maximum out of limited players that took us very close ("limited" is unkind to one or two talented players in that team). He was exactly what we needed when he arrived (the pissheads either sobered up or funked off). But what was his legacy? 

Steve Cotterill gave us the best season we'll ever have in Div 3. To be a footballer in that dressing room must have been quite something - esprit de corps on steroids. Amazing. But what was his legacy? 

Johnson Jr? His legacy? Let's not derail the thread! Suffice to say, he talked about having emotional intelligence, then demonstrated precious little of it. How very LJ - talk the talk, can't walk the walk. Pearson meanwhile.... 

All 3 left a team and club going backwards (perhaps stalled tbf, in Gary's case).

Pearson's legacy, if he leaves next May, will likely be a team going forward or at least primed to do so - and underpinned by the sort of values and culture that our club need to succeed. 

If the owner can't understand any of this, it demonstrates how little he understands - again. And if he can't see that, in our current straightened circumstances, Pearson is exactly the type of manager we need, then god help him - and us. 

I guess I’m claiming that because both Johnson’s delivered us our best league position finishes in the last 45 years, they could have a claim to having a better record as manager of this football club than Pearson. 

Of course, Pearson has dealt with huge set backs, and off the field we are in a far superior place than we were when he arrived, however the side on the pitch hasn’t seen anywhere near the success that the other three saw, perhaps that will change this season, I hope it does, but until then, in my books, he can’t be placed in the same category.

Since when do circumstances mean that much? Should a manager only be judged positively if they come in with negative circumstances surrounding their appointment? If Gary Johnson had done what Pearson has done, would he be viewed greater in your eyes than how he is viewed now, as the man who nearly took us to the Premier League? In fact, I would say Cotts took us over in a position that is very comparable, perhaps even worse. An aging squad with a high wage budget being spent in the wrong areas, key difference being we were heading to league 2 when he took over, not heading to lower mid table in the championship.

Pearsons Points per Game is far exceeded by either Johnson and Cotts, as good as his off the field management of the club has been, it’s only recently that we’re seeing progress on the field, albeit in drips and drabs. He isn’t getting enough, but if you compare the squad he comes into this season with, and the squad we went into the 2007/08 season with, then it’s incomparable.

Gary Johnson took us from perennial nearly men in league one, to one game away from the premier league. I’d argue that your view here would be different had he won that game, so are you claiming that Pearson has been a better manager at Bristol City due to one match Gary Johnson managed in? LJ is always going to be a disputed topic, but he did take us to greater heights than Pearson has, as did Cotts. Gary Johnson can’t be disputed thoug imo, everything points towards him being the best manager we have had since Dicks, and Pearson is far away from that right now imo, and I’m amazed that’s not a common belief 

[The Journalist]

13 hours ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Are you claiming because Johnson Snr delivered the playoffs and Jnr a couple of top 10 finishes (after blowing the playoffs minimum btw), they're better than Pearson? In what universe, apart from the cloud cuckooland you live in, are the circumstances in which the Johnsons managed us comparable to the situation Pearson has had to deal with? 

Pearson is an infinitely superior man-manager, culture-builder, mentor.

Pearson has rebuilt our club from the ground up, with foundations that can last long after he's gone - the values and culture he's established will serve the young players he brings through for the rest of their careers. Exactly the sort of values and culture a club like ours require. 

Love them as I do, neither Gary Johnson or Steve Cotterill built a culture or established values in the same way.

Gary Johnson squeezed the maximum out of limited players that took us very close ("limited" is unkind to one or two talented players in that team). He was exactly what we needed when he arrived (the pissheads either sobered up or funked off). But what was his legacy? 

Steve Cotterill gave us the best season we'll ever have in Div 3. To be a footballer in that dressing room must have been quite something - esprit de corps on steroids. Amazing. But what was his legacy? 

Johnson Jr? His legacy? Let's not derail the thread! Suffice to say, he talked about having emotional intelligence, then demonstrated precious little of it. How very LJ - talk the talk, can't walk the walk. Pearson meanwhile.... 

All 3 left a team and club going backwards (perhaps stalled tbf, in Gary's case).

Pearson's legacy, if he leaves next May, will likely be a team going forward or at least primed to do so - and underpinned by the sort of values and culture that our club need to succeed. 

If the owner can't understand any of this, it demonstrates how little he understands - again. And if he can't see that, in our current straightened circumstances, Pearson is exactly the type of manager we need, then god help him - and us. 

This is really interesting and don't disagree with any of it - but re: legacy it does raise quite a thought-provoking point around point of departure, doesn't it?

You're basing your legacy argument around Pearson leaving at a pretty positive juncture, assuming we at least finish in middle table this season with a young, improving team.

He could well sign a new contract, which the vast majority of us would be happy with, stay another 24 months, us still be floating around in mid-table and the general feeling across the board is we'd built a bang average squad not capable of going the next step. What's his legacy then?

Similarly, if Gary had left for a bigger club at the end of his third full season you'd have said we were in a good position to kick on, with two positive seasons behind us and a young star striker - Nicky Maynard - now settled in at Championship level.

Just think it's interesting and shows how much timing has to do with your perceived legacy/the club you leave behind.

I'm saying this as a huge Nigel Pearson fan, by the way, so I'm not arguing with your overall point - just that you have to be careful about how you're framing that argument.

Edited September 7, 2023 by The Journalist

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, JBFC II said:

and I’m amazed that’s not a common belief 

That’s because you’ve set your own rules on what you think it should be judged on.

@Merrick's Marvels has his basis.

I have mine.

That’s why there isn’t much of a consensus.

If anything, MM’s is a more rounded, all-encompassing view, whereas yours is more point in time, ie at the point of success and / or end of season, and mine is somewhere in between. 

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, The Journalist said:

He could well sign a new contract, which the vast majority of us would be happy with, stay another 24 months, us still be floating around in mid-table and the general feeling across the board is we'd built a bang average squad not capable of going the next step. What's his legacy then?

You can only judge on what has happened, not predicting the future or re-inventing what happened in history.

To play Devil’s advocate, by the sane token, what if he takes us up.

It’s a bit futile trying to counter an opinion on what might happen in the future.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Davefevs

[The Journalist]

23 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

You can only judge on what has happened, not predicting the future or re-inventing what happened in history.

To play Devil’s advocate, by the sane token, what if he takes us up.

It’s a bit futile trying to counter an opinion on what might happen in the future.

My point is you have to be careful, to an extent, to judge a manager's performance/legacy on the state he leaves the club in because timing has quite a lot to do with that.

Edit: Also worth saying - you know I'm a huge fan of Nigel Pearson, think he's done a brilliant job etc so it's more a broader point I'm making than anything specific to him!

Edited September 7, 2023 by The Journalist

[ExiledAjax]

16 minutes ago, The Journalist said:

My point is you have to be careful, to an extent, to judge a manager's performance/legacy on the state he leaves the club in because timing has quite a lot to do with that.

As well as the fact that the vast majority of managerial departures occur after a period of poor performance/results, sometimes with a "falling out" with ownership thrown in for gold measure.

Some occur during a high point - see someone like Potter going to Chelsea from Brighton - but most of the time a manager leaves at a point where most judge his legacy negatively.

Even someone like Cotterill, who led us to a double-winning season, ultimately departed on a low. The extent to which that low tarnishes the previous highs is subjective and is a personal view that depends on one's own theory as to why it happened, but he left when we were struggling.

If Pearson becomes one of those rare managers to see through a contract without extending it (I honestly can't think of many that weren't "interim/caretaker" men who have done so recently), then he will likely leave when we are neither on a high nor a low.

Hence we will all be free to write our own fan-fiction future where St. Nigel either delivers, fails, or plods along as we each choose to believe.

Edited September 7, 2023 by ExiledAjax

[cidered abroad]

14 hours ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Are you claiming because Johnson Snr delivered the playoffs and Jnr a couple of top 10 finishes (after blowing the playoffs minimum btw), they're better than Pearson? In what universe, apart from the cloud cuckooland you live in, are the circumstances in which the Johnsons managed us comparable to the situation Pearson has had to deal with? 

Pearson is an infinitely superior man-manager, culture-builder, mentor.

Pearson has rebuilt our club from the ground up, with foundations that can last long after he's gone - the values and culture he's established will serve the young players he brings through for the rest of their careers. Exactly the sort of values and culture a club like ours require. 

Love them as I do, neither Gary Johnson or Steve Cotterill built a culture or established values in the same way.

Gary Johnson squeezed the maximum out of limited players that took us very close ("limited" is unkind to one or two talented players in that team). He was exactly what we needed when he arrived (the pissheads either sobered up or funked off). But what was his legacy? 

Steve Cotterill gave us the best season we'll ever have in Div 3. To be a footballer in that dressing room must have been quite something - esprit de corps on steroids. Amazing. But what was his legacy? 

Johnson Jr? His legacy? Let's not derail the thread! Suffice to say, he talked about having emotional intelligence, then demonstrated precious little of it. How very LJ - talk the talk, can't walk the walk. Pearson meanwhile.... 

All 3 left a team and club going backwards (perhaps stalled tbf, in Gary's case).

Pearson's legacy, if he leaves next May, will likely be a team going forward or at least primed to do so - and underpinned by the sort of values and culture that our club need to succeed. 

If the owner can't understand any of this, it demonstrates how little he understands - again. And if he can't see that, in our current straightened circumstances, Pearson is exactly the type of manager we need, then god help him - and us. 

A superb post @Merrick's Marvels

 

@merrickstash

Edited September 7, 2023 by cidered abroad

[Sheltons Army]

14 hours ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Are you claiming because Johnson Snr delivered the playoffs and Jnr a couple of top 10 finishes (after blowing the playoffs minimum btw), they're better than Pearson? In what universe, apart from the cloud cuckooland you live in, are the circumstances in which the Johnsons managed us comparable to the situation Pearson has had to deal with? 

Pearson is an infinitely superior man-manager, culture-builder, mentor.

Pearson has rebuilt our club from the ground up, with foundations that can last long after he's gone - the values and culture he's established will serve the young players he brings through for the rest of their careers. Exactly the sort of values and culture a club like ours require. 

Love them as I do, neither Gary Johnson or Steve Cotterill built a culture or established values in the same way.

Gary Johnson squeezed the maximum out of limited players that took us very close ("limited" is unkind to one or two talented players in that team). He was exactly what we needed when he arrived (the pissheads either sobered up or funked off). But what was his legacy? 

Steve Cotterill gave us the best season we'll ever have in Div 3. To be a footballer in that dressing room must have been quite something - esprit de corps on steroids. Amazing. But what was his legacy? 

Johnson Jr? His legacy? Let's not derail the thread! Suffice to say, he talked about having emotional intelligence, then demonstrated precious little of it. How very LJ - talk the talk, can't walk the walk. Pearson meanwhile.... 

All 3 left a team and club going backwards (perhaps stalled tbf, in Gary's case).

Pearson's legacy, if he leaves next May, will likely be a team going forward or at least primed to do so - and underpinned by the sort of values and culture that our club need to succeed. 

If the owner can't understand any of this, it demonstrates how little he understands - again. And if he can't see that, in our current straightened circumstances, Pearson is exactly the type of manager we need, then god help him - and us. 

Brilliant post and explanation

The only point I’d make is about Cotts - I think he actually left us in a very healthy (Albeit lean) state with a slim squad with room for additions and build , built around a very bonded team with some decent players 

We won’t know , with a different relationship between SC and the owner , how Cotts may have built on that

 

As we all know it unfolded and the team needed tinkering with and bolstered at that level

The next recipient , for me had a very healthy base on which to work (As will NPs successor) - it needed tinkering with tactically with a clear philosophy and identity , and some key purchases to keep progressing.

Ive said several times LJs tenure / Lansdowns pet project was the opportunity of a generation missed , not just because of the money wasted,  but the wasted opportunity of building on a talented , bonded team that just needed gentle steering and some bolster.

A committed , bonded team with some very decent individuals , and a very slim squad ready for some decent recruitment , and an owner whose got his wallet open for you to play with , and won’t see any flaws in you , is about as good a job as an incoming manager could get , is it not .

[JBFC II]

39 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That’s because you’ve set your own rules on what you think it should be judged on.

@Merrick's Marvels has his basis.

I have mine.

That’s why there isn’t much of a consensus.

If anything, MM’s is a more rounded, all-encompassing view, whereas yours is more point in time, ie at the point of success and / or end of season, and mine is somewhere in between. 

I guess it depends on how you think a manager should be judged.

If it is legacy (which is an interesting one as we can’t see what Pearsons legacy is yet, and we won’t for a few years at least), then how do we judge legacy? Is it about where someone has taken a club and what they’ve put in place for building in the future? In which case, was Ferguson a success at Man United legacy wise, considering the legacy he left behind (I.e. the future of the club) being in a relatively poor place. Was Mourinho a success at Chelsea? He left the club in turmoil, yet delivered on the field for them in a way no manager had done for many years.

Thats why I’d say that’s a difficult way to judge a manager, and why on field success should take a much higher pedigree than it has done in @Merrick's Marvels post. You can leave a club in a poor place having achieved great things there, look at Clough leaving forest having been relegated, it doesn’t detract from the success you’ve had previously.

Gary Johnson left us 10th in the championship, having overseen a promotion and our highest league position in decades, somewhere we haven’t been since. All while working with a comparatively low budget squad (especially pre 2008). If Pearson gets to those levels that would be superb, but despite all his work off the pitch he’s yet to come close to that on it, which is why he can’t be viewed in the same way as GJ is imo

[Major Isewater]

2 hours ago, JBFC II said:

I guess I’m claiming that because both Johnson’s delivered us our best league position finishes in the last 45 years, they could have a claim to having a better record as manager of this football club than Pearson. 

Of course, Pearson has dealt with huge set backs, and off the field we are in a far superior place than we were when he arrived, however the side on the pitch hasn’t seen anywhere near the success that the other three saw, perhaps that will change this season, I hope it does, but until then, in my books, he can’t be placed in the same category.

Since when do circumstances mean that much? Should a manager only be judged positively if they come in with negative circumstances surrounding their appointment? If Gary Johnson had done what Pearson has done, would he be viewed greater in your eyes than how he is viewed now, as the man who nearly took us to the Premier League? In fact, I would say Cotts took us over in a position that is very comparable, perhaps even worse. An aging squad with a high wage budget being spent in the wrong areas, key difference being we were heading to league 2 when he took over, not heading to lower mid table in the championship.

Pearsons Points per Game is far exceeded by either Johnson and Cotts, as good as his off the field management of the club has been, it’s only recently that we’re seeing progress on the field, albeit in drips and drabs. He isn’t getting enough, but if you compare the squad he comes into this season with, and the squad we went into the 2007/08 season with, then it’s incomparable.

Gary Johnson took us from perennial nearly men in league one, to one game away from the premier league. I’d argue that your view here would be different had he won that game, so are you claiming that Pearson has been a better manager at Bristol City due to one match Gary Johnson managed in? LJ is always going to be a disputed topic, but he did take us to greater heights than Pearson has, as did Cotts. Gary Johnson can’t be disputed thoug imo, everything points towards him being the best manager we have had since Dicks, and Pearson is far away from that right now imo, and I’m amazed that’s not a common belief 

The whole debate is like the one where people discuss who was the best team, player in comparison to another, it’s impossible to say because there are way too many variables. 
 

[RedEyez]

15 hours ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Are you claiming because Johnson Snr delivered the playoffs and Jnr a couple of top 10 finishes (after blowing the playoffs minimum btw), they're better than Pearson? In what universe, apart from the cloud cuckooland you live in, are the circumstances in which the Johnsons managed us comparable to the situation Pearson has had to deal with? 

Pearson is an infinitely superior man-manager, culture-builder, mentor.

Pearson has rebuilt our club from the ground up, with foundations that can last long after he's gone - the values and culture he's established will serve the young players he brings through for the rest of their careers. Exactly the sort of values and culture a club like ours require. 

Love them as I do, neither Gary Johnson or Steve Cotterill built a culture or established values in the same way.

Gary Johnson squeezed the maximum out of limited players that took us very close ("limited" is unkind to one or two talented players in that team). He was exactly what we needed when he arrived (the pissheads either sobered up or funked off). But what was his legacy? 

Steve Cotterill gave us the best season we'll ever have in Div 3. To be a footballer in that dressing room must have been quite something - esprit de corps on steroids. Amazing. But what was his legacy? 

Johnson Jr? His legacy? Let's not derail the thread! Suffice to say, he talked about having emotional intelligence, then demonstrated precious little of it. How very LJ - talk the talk, can't walk the walk. Pearson meanwhile.... 

All 3 left a team and club going backwards (perhaps stalled tbf, in Gary's case).

Pearson's legacy, if he leaves next May, will likely be a team going forward or at least primed to do so - and underpinned by the sort of values and culture that our club need to succeed. 

If the owner can't understand any of this, it demonstrates how little he understands - again. And if he can't see that, in our current straightened circumstances, Pearson is exactly the type of manager we need, then god help him - and us. 

For me, you are absolutely bang on the money with this.

[Davefevs]

36 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

I guess it depends on how you think a manager should be judged.

It does, hence why I said you won’t get consensus.

[Midred]

On 05/09/2023 at 10:04, Midred said:

Thank you, got mine! 

Ticket arrived this morning!

[Merrick's Marvels]

My main point really, to avoid getting bogged down about "legacy", is that Pearson has invested considerable time and expertise (imo) in building a culture and values in a way that none of the others either did or were capable of. 

A culture and values that will sustain our club, this group of players, very well into the future - or at least for as long as we care to sustain that culture and those values.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Merrick's Marvels

[Midred]

1 minute ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

My main point really, to avoid getting bogged down about "legacy", is that Pearson has invested considerable time and expertise (imo) in building a culture and values in a way that none of the others either did or were capable of. 

Danny Wilson did but that didn't go so well

,

[Merrick's Marvels]

Just now, Midred said:

Danny Wilson did but that didn't go so well

,

Excellent example and a point very well made - subversively! Love it. 

[City oz]

18 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

My main point really, to avoid getting bogged down about "legacy", is that Pearson has invested considerable time and expertise (imo) in building a culture and values in a way that none of the others either did or were capable of. 

A culture and values that will sustain our club, this group of players, very well into the future - or at least for as long as we care to sustain that culture and those values.

Many years have gone by now, but Alan Dicks also reminds me of a was a solid manager with great ethics and a fantastic football brain with it. Pearson though is one of the greats and you never know by the end of this season he will have the status of some great success. 

[leader]

15 hours ago, southside said:

Remember the pub in Leicester we used to frequent in the old Div 1 days?

Yes the turnstile 

[Midred]

49 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Excellent example and a point very well made - subversively! Love it. 

I'm expecting at least one rebuttal to my example!  

[Merrick's Marvels]

4 minutes ago, Midred said:

I'm expecting at least one rebuttal to my example!  

Yeah, can't think who that might be... 

[GrahamC]

16 hours ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Are you claiming because Johnson Snr delivered the playoffs and Jnr a couple of top 10 finishes (after blowing the playoffs minimum btw), they're better than Pearson? In what universe, apart from the cloud cuckooland you live in, are the circumstances in which the Johnsons managed us comparable to the situation Pearson has had to deal with? 

Pearson is an infinitely superior man-manager, culture-builder, mentor.

Pearson has rebuilt our club from the ground up, with foundations that can last long after he's gone - the values and culture he's established will serve the young players he brings through for the rest of their careers. Exactly the sort of values and culture a club like ours require. 

Love them as I do, neither Gary Johnson or Steve Cotterill built a culture or established values in the same way.

Gary Johnson squeezed the maximum out of limited players that took us very close ("limited" is unkind to one or two talented players in that team). He was exactly what we needed when he arrived (the pissheads either sobered up or funked off). But what was his legacy? 

Steve Cotterill gave us the best season we'll ever have in Div 3. To be a footballer in that dressing room must have been quite something - esprit de corps on steroids. Amazing. But what was his legacy? 

Johnson Jr? His legacy? Let's not derail the thread! Suffice to say, he talked about having emotional intelligence, then demonstrated precious little of it. How very LJ - talk the talk, can't walk the walk. Pearson meanwhile.... 

All 3 left a team and club going backwards (perhaps stalled tbf, in Gary's case).

Pearson's legacy, if he leaves next May, will likely be a team going forward or at least primed to do so - and underpinned by the sort of values and culture that our club need to succeed. 

If the owner can't understand any of this, it demonstrates how little he understands - again. And if he can't see that, in our current straightened circumstances, Pearson is exactly the type of manager we need, then god help him - and us. 

Great post but without discussing the relative merits of Pearson & GJ, I’d argue you perfectly described the latter’s legacy.

”The pissheads sobered up or effed off” Wilson & his band of drunkards, then SL’s great mate Tinnion (hopelessly out of his depth as a manager) couldn’t achieve this.

GJ’s abrasive Cockernee manner was exactly what was required, “shape up or fackin’ ship out”..

He definitely lost the plot towards the end but absolutely he rid us of the waster culture tolerated (encouraged?) by Wilson & that Tinnion clearly couldn’t break.

 

[Merrick's Marvels]

47 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Great post but without discussing the relative merits of Pearson & GJ, I’d argue you perfectly described the latter’s legacy.

”The pissheads sobered up or effed off” Wilson & his band of drunkards, then SL’s great mate Tinnion (hopelessly out of his depth as a manager) couldn’t achieve this.

GJ’s abrasive Cockernee manner was exactly what was required, “shape up or fackin’ ship out”..

He definitely lost the plot towards the end but absolutely he rid us of the waster culture tolerated (encouraged?) by Wilson & that Tinnion clearly couldn’t break.

 

Funny that you should use the word "waster" as I'd been thinking of that too - that, and "wastage".

Pearson is running a tight ship - there's no "wastage" on players we get nothing or precious little from on the pitch - Kasey Palmer's ratio of wages paid .v. end product on the pitch was a disgrace and unsustainable for a club like ours. We aren't Chelsea who can pay Winston Bogarde a fortune for literally doing nothing. "We must get our pounds onto the pitch" said Richard Gould and now we are. 

There's also no "wasters" in the squad, players with the wrong attitude spreading bad vibes - how's Bakinson doing these days? Other examples are, sadly, too numerous to mention and we won't talk about Liam Walsh in case you have an aneurysm.

So all in all, we're pretty lean and mean right now. In fact, this might just be the best shape we've ever been at this level or certainly since the mid 70s under AD. 

Edited September 7, 2023 by Merrick's Marvels

[southside]

2 hours ago, leader said:

Yes the turnstile 

The one I was thinking of A is the Tavern in the Town, had a first floor bar and also a downstairs bar

Edited September 7, 2023 by southside

[Midred]

1 hour ago, southside said:

The one I was thinking of A is the Tavern in the Town, had a first floor bar and also a downstairs bar

It's a while since we've played up there, can anyone localish say what's there between station and ground?