The Gaffer speaks after tonight’s defeat

[Silvio Dante]

15 minutes ago, You Do The Dziekanowski said:

For what it’s worth… 

 

LM got the job based off his work at Oxford. 
 

Look at League 1, there’s no giants in there anymore. Bolton and Pompey have been down in the lower leagues too long to be considered powerhouses. Derby are still rebuilding, and then Blackpool (mess), Reading (mess) and Wigan (mess) joined this season. Stevenage, Carlisle, Northampton and Leyton Orient are hardly large clubs either. 

My point, getting Oxford to 2nd is no real achievement as anyone from 1st to 14th could be in any of those positions and it wouldn’t look out of place. 
 

I don’t want to bash LM as it wasn’t his fault he was offered the job. But I’ve never felt like it was a progressive appointment and the results and performances seem to go hand in hand with that. 

Then why couldn’t Joey Barton do it?

ANSWER ME THAT!!!

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, The Journalist said:

Like many, many players and managers, Liam is clearly just media trained up to the eyeballs. He's so polished... I think it's just particularly jarring to us as fans because Nigel was the polar opposite.

There are very few like Nigel who are authentic and say what they actually think, rather than say what they think they should say. Ange Postecoglou is probably one of the few other examples in England at the moment? Either way, they're outliers in that respect.

Nonetheless, I do feel a bit sorry for Liam at the moment. He's had an iffy first six games and already he's getting his post-match interview technique pulled apart, eye contact analysed etc etc.

A good time, then, to remind everyone this is all on the Lansdowns and Tinnion, not the new manager.

Funny you say that, because Nige went through extensive media training in his early days of managing.  He was very aware of what he’d say / blurt out had he not be trained to pause and talk slowly.  What Nige didn’t do was talk to us in coaching speak.

I think it was Nige’s son who said (paraphrased) “his come you talk so different on the telly Dad!”

I recall watching a Nige interview years ago and finding him a bit too polished, albeit a bit condescending.in some respects he was like that here with some journos.  As you’ll know, there is a lot of relationship building that goes on outside of the actual interview itself and that’s probably where people like James P succeeded.

[ROKERITE]

I shared the general unhappiness on here the day Pearson was fired. I expected the replacement to be someone like John Eustace who had done fairly well with limited resources.

Unfortunately your owners seem to have caught the Keiran McKenna bug. McKenna has done fantastically well at Ipswich so it has to be a young, fresh coach. But for every McKenna there are half a dozen Kevin Betsys.

I was amazed when the news broke that you were after Manning. I had money on MK Dons last season and it was the classic "back them for promotion and they get relegated". I'd been impressed with how well MK had done the previous season and although he'd had to sell a couple of their star men he was able to spend much of the money received on replacements. But MK Dons under him were terrible last season. Falling away from challenging at the top happens but not dropping into the bottom four. He was fortunate to be sacked so the relegation isn't on his record. But to then judge him on not much more than half a season at Oxford seemed naive.  

You play us on Saturday so perhaps Bristol City will find their feet. I just think the mistake of sacking Pearson was compounded by the choice of his successor.

[BCFC Rich]

15 minutes ago, ROKERITE said:

I shared the general unhappiness on here the day Pearson was fired. I expected the replacement to be someone like John Eustace who had done fairly well with limited resources.

Unfortunately your owners seem to have caught the Keiran McKenna bug. McKenna has done fantastically well at Ipswich so it has to be a young, fresh coach. But for every McKenna there are half a dozen Kevin Betsys.

I was amazed when the news broke that you were after Manning. I had money on MK Dons last season and it was the classic "back them for promotion and they get relegated". I'd been impressed with how well MK had done the previous season and although he'd had to sell a couple of their star men he was able to spend much of the money received on replacements. But MK Dons under him were terrible last season. Falling away from challenging at the top happens but not dropping into the bottom four. He was fortunate to be sacked so the relegation isn't on his record. But to then judge him on not much more than half a season at Oxford seemed naive.  

You play us on Saturday so perhaps Bristol City will find their feet. I just think the mistake of sacking Pearson was compounded by the choice of his successor.

I think if your sacking Pearson (which to be clear I think was mind numbingly stupid) you have to go for a young slightly unproven manager who might be the next thing. Otherwise what's the point getting rid of NP - there no one else around we could realistically get who is more experienced and happy to work on a tight budget. I don't think we should have switched at all (especially not mid season), but given we did I kind of u der stand the style of the appointment. 

[Davefevs]

28 minutes ago, ROKERITE said:

I shared the general unhappiness on here the day Pearson was fired. I expected the replacement to be someone like John Eustace who had done fairly well with limited resources.

Unfortunately your owners seem to have caught the Keiran McKenna bug. McKenna has done fantastically well at Ipswich so it has to be a young, fresh coach. But for every McKenna there are half a dozen Kevin Betsys.

I was amazed when the news broke that you were after Manning. I had money on MK Dons last season and it was the classic "back them for promotion and they get relegated". I'd been impressed with how well MK had done the previous season and although he'd had to sell a couple of their star men he was able to spend much of the money received on replacements. But MK Dons under him were terrible last season. Falling away from challenging at the top happens but not dropping into the bottom four. He was fortunate to be sacked so the relegation isn't on his record. But to then judge him on not much more than half a season at Oxford seemed naive.  

You play us on Saturday so perhaps Bristol City will find their feet. I just think the mistake of sacking Pearson was compounded by the choice of his successor.

I’m a huge Mowbray fan….but I sense as an outsider I’m not close enough to your bunch to know the true feeling and reasons.

What was your view?

[Silvio Dante]

34 minutes ago, ROKERITE said:

I shared the general unhappiness on here the day Pearson was fired. I expected the replacement to be someone like John Eustace who had done fairly well with limited resources.

Unfortunately your owners seem to have caught the Keiran McKenna bug. McKenna has done fantastically well at Ipswich so it has to be a young, fresh coach. But for every McKenna there are half a dozen Kevin Betsys.

I was amazed when the news broke that you were after Manning. I had money on MK Dons last season and it was the classic "back them for promotion and they get relegated". I'd been impressed with how well MK had done the previous season and although he'd had to sell a couple of their star men he was able to spend much of the money received on replacements. But MK Dons under him were terrible last season. Falling away from challenging at the top happens but not dropping into the bottom four. He was fortunate to be sacked so the relegation isn't on his record. But to then judge him on not much more than half a season at Oxford seemed naive.  

You play us on Saturday so perhaps Bristol City will find their feet. I just think the mistake of sacking Pearson was compounded by the choice of his successor.

 

[Superjack]

On 13/12/2023 at 17:29, KingHillRed said:

Trust the process 

**** the process.

[Always injured]

It’s a shame Manning wasn’t even 

city’s first choice

[ROKERITE]

14 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I’m a huge Mowbray fan….but I sense as an outsider I’m not close enough to your bunch to know the true feeling and reasons.

What was your view?

When Alex Neil left us there were few Sunderland supporters who were excited by the prospect of Tony Mowbray. But 2022-3 was all about consolidation after the previous season's promotion. Tony Mowbray not only surpassed that target by taking us into the play-offs; he did it playing some of the most attractive football any of us have seen from a Sunderland side.

This season started in the same fashion peaking with a 5-0 thrashing of Southampton. But the last couple of months had seen a falling off in both results and style of play, along with some strange team selections and certain important players being left out. There was not the overwhelming anger and disagreement that Pearson's sacking by you generated. There was still a sadness because "Uncle Tony" had given us such a good time but it's all about who replaces Mowbray now

As ever there are some interesting names and some horrors.

 

[chinapig]

1 hour ago, ROKERITE said:

When Alex Neil left us there were few Sunderland supporters who were excited by the prospect of Tony Mowbray. But 2022-3 was all about consolidation after the previous season's promotion. Tony Mowbray not only surpassed that target by taking us into the play-offs; he did it playing some of the most attractive football any of us have seen from a Sunderland side.

This season started in the same fashion peaking with a 5-0 thrashing of Southampton. But the last couple of months had seen a falling off in both results and style of play, along with some strange team selections and certain important players being left out. There was not the overwhelming anger and disagreement that Pearson's sacking by you generated. There was still a sadness because "Uncle Tony" had given us such a good time but it's all about who replaces Mowbray now

As ever there are some interesting names and some horrors.

 

Sunderland were the most enjoyable team to watch last season for me. Exciting attacking football played at a high tempo with lots of youthful enthusiasm.

I'm a fan of Mowbray and would have cut him some slack this season given the loss of Diallo and to a lesser extent Stewart (only due to him being out injured for so long).

I wonder if your club is looking to replace a respected experienced manager with a compliant young coach who will do what he is told.

What am I saying, no sensible club would do that.

[Bristol Oil Services]

"The gaffer speaks .... tonight" there's a song in there, somewhere. 

 

A win away, a win away, a win away all want is a win away

Hush my babber, don't fear my babber

The gaffer speaks ... tonight

 

In the shambles, the mighty shambles 

The gaffer speaks tonight

 

Weeee heeee weeeeeoh win away

A win at home, a win away  

 

Etc, and so on

[KingHillRed]

On 15/12/2023 at 00:27, Superjack said:

**** the process.

How you feeling a few more games in Jack?

[Lew-T]

10 minutes ago, KingHillRed said:

How you feeling a few more games in Jack?

There is always one that drags old threads up.

Dick waving.

[italian dave]

On 15/12/2023 at 09:29, ROKERITE said:

As ever there are some interesting names and some horrors.

 

Similar question to the above: how are you feeling now @ROKERITE? 
Interesting….or one of the horrors? 

[Superjack]

1 hour ago, KingHillRed said:

How you feeling a few more games in Jack?

Delighted we are doing well on the pitch.

But that wasn't the 'process' that I was talking about.

[RedRoss]

1 hour ago, Lew-T said:

There is always one that drags old threads up.

Dick waving.

Isn't that reaction fair game considering the reaction in this topic.

You (don't mean you particularly) can instantly moan when things aren't going right but can't accept it instantly coming back when things are going well?

I'm not getting too excited with our current run as some, same as I wasn't overly concerned as others when results weren't going our way.

However, I can see why there might be an element of dick wavving as you put it because of the outpouring of negatively that spreads on here when results don't go our way by certain posters who suddenly don't say a dickie bird until the next loss.

Edited December 28, 2023 by RedRoss

[cotswoldred2]

On 15/12/2023 at 12:48, Bristol Oil Services said:

"The gaffer speaks .... tonight" there's a song in there, somewhere. 

 

A win away, a win away, a win away all want is a win away

Hush my babber, don't fear my babber

The gaffer speaks ... tonight

 

In the shambles, the mighty shambles 

The gaffer speaks tonight

 

Weeee heeee weeeeeoh win away

A win at home, a win away  

 

Etc, and so on

And do you have a tune now?

[Ron W]

21 minutes ago, RedRoss said:

Isn't that reaction fair game considering the reaction in this topic.

You (don't mean you particularly) can instantly moan when things aren't going right but can't accept it instantly coming back when things are going well?

I'm not getting too excited with our current run as some, same as I wasn't overly concerned as others when results weren't going our way.

However, I can see why there might be an element of dick wavving as you put it because of the outpouring of negatively that spreads on here when results don't go our way by certain posters who suddenly don't say a dickie bird until the next loss.

It's true, and tempting, but what does it add? What if we go on another bad run and then the opposite applies? Can we not talk about the pros and cons of City, and Manning, without doing this?

[O'Garlandinho]

This thread rightly dragged back up to highlight the ridiculous over-reaction to a narrow away loss at a decent champ side, where we played ok. Some of the comments are outrageous.

[Lew-T]

44 minutes ago, RedRoss said:

Isn't that reaction fair game considering the reaction in this topic.

You (don't mean you particularly) can instantly moan when things aren't going right but can't accept it instantly coming back when things are going well?

I'm not getting too excited with our current run as some, same as I wasn't overly concerned as others when results weren't going our way.

However, I can see why there might be an element of dick wavving as you put it because of the outpouring of negatively that spreads on here when results don't go our way by certain posters who suddenly don't say a dickie bird until the next loss.

@Ron W as above shares the same feeling as me.

[RedRoss]

1 hour ago, Ron W said:

It's true, and tempting, but what does it add? What if we go on another bad run and then the opposite applies? Can we not talk about the pros and cons of City, and Manning, without doing this?

 

42 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

@Ron W as above shares the same feeling as me.

I'm with you both.

Just highlighting the reasoning others may have to bring this back up. I can understand it that's all.

The same energy needs to be given to the overly negative reactionary posts though if they do come i.e dick waving ect because I can't see any at the beginning of this topic.

Edited December 28, 2023 by RedRoss

[Glasgow Red]

There are some posts on that start on this thread that should destroy the poster's reputations for ever. Absolutely embarrassing haha

[GrahamC]

54 minutes ago, O'Garlandinho said:

This thread rightly dragged back up to highlight the ridiculous over-reaction to a narrow away loss at a decent champ side, where we played ok. Some of the comments are outrageous.

True but if you ever read a match day thread back (& I wouldn’t suggest doing so for a minute) it was ever thus.

Tanner is rubbish, Williams needs to be moved on, Bell/Conway need a loan in League One, Cornick, etc, etc.

Absolutely no perspective, no taking the opposition into account, no bigger picture.

I read on here yesterday it would be “typical City” to lose tomorrow, just madness. 

Birmingham aren’t great but they aren’t Forest Green, either. Nor are we Leicester, whoever is in charge.

We could have an off day, they could have a good one, it wouldn’t change much at all in the overall picture.

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by GrahamC

[Mr Popodopolous]

On 12/12/2023 at 22:33, Mr Popodopolous said:

I mean it is vastly more tactically varied and complicated than it once was at higher levels tbh.

We however need to strip it back a bit, gradually evolve go the preferred Manning style once the base is stabilised again. IMO.

I think we've done this to a degree tbh.

We are still sharp enough in possession and yeah Mehmeti in, Knight pushed higher is still a tweak but there is a certain consistency in the last 3 games.

Keeping Sykes and Knight on, starting them more often than not..looking to be good with the ball but not obsessively so, more of a tempo and press without it.

[Silvio Dante]

I don’t have an issue with the thread being resurrected, because I think (and it’s not about results), the Blackburn game was a real line in the sand moment.

You had senior pros slating things on Robins TV, you had a manager looking defeated post match, you had bizarre decisions like taking off Sykes and Knight. If it looked chaotic and sliding towards bad things, it’s because it had every indication that’s what it was. And had that been followed up against Sunderland with a defeat, then trouble may have been ahead.

Whether LM decided he didn’t have the players for the heavy possession game, whether the slightly gung ho second half that nearly yielded results changed his mind who knows. But since about 50 minutes in vs Blackburn we’ve played differently - we’ve played with intent, desire, purpose. Our possession stats have gone down markedly and we’re back below 50%. We’re doing over 100 passes less per game. The “Swansea” trajectory isn’t being followed - a trajectory appropriate to the players is.

There was a quote I highlighted earlier in this thread where LM expressed a view that maybe he’d overloaded the players. I viewed it post match as him trying to be a bit too clever. In hindsight, and considering the stylistic tweaks since, it may well have been him saying he’d got it wrong and acknowledging that the overloading to his initial preferred style hadn’t worked.

[eardun]

16 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

I don’t have an issue with the thread being resurrected, because I think (and it’s not about results), the Blackburn game was a real line in the sand moment.

You had senior pros slating things on Robins TV, you had a manager looking defeated post match, you had bizarre decisions like taking off Sykes and Knight. If it looked chaotic and sliding towards bad things, it’s because it had every indication that’s what it was. And had that been followed up against Sunderland with a defeat, then trouble may have been ahead.

Whether LM decided he didn’t have the players for the heavy possession game, whether the slightly gung ho second half that nearly yielded results changed his mind who knows. But since about 50 minutes in vs Blackburn we’ve played differently - we’ve played with intent, desire, purpose. Our possession stats have gone down markedly and we’re back below 50%. We’re doing over 100 passes less per game. The “Swansea” trajectory isn’t being followed - a trajectory appropriate to the players is.

There was a quote I highlighted earlier in this thread where LM expressed a view that maybe he’d overloaded the players. I viewed it post match as him trying to be a bit too clever. In hindsight, and considering the stylistic tweaks since, it may well have been him saying he’d got it wrong and acknowledging that the overloading to his initial preferred style hadn’t worked.

Perhaps. Or perhaps it has just taken this long for the players to get it. Whichever it is though, Manning deserves credit. 

[RedRoss]

41 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

I don’t have an issue with the thread being resurrected, because I think (and it’s not about results), the Blackburn game was a real line in the sand moment.

You had senior pros slating things on Robins TV, you had a manager looking defeated post match, you had bizarre decisions like taking off Sykes and Knight. If it looked chaotic and sliding towards bad things, it’s because it had every indication that’s what it was. And had that been followed up against Sunderland with a defeat, then trouble may have been ahead.

Whether LM decided he didn’t have the players for the heavy possession game, whether the slightly gung ho second half that nearly yielded results changed his mind who knows. But since about 50 minutes in vs Blackburn we’ve played differently - we’ve played with intent, desire, purpose. Our possession stats have gone down markedly and we’re back below 50%. We’re doing over 100 passes less per game. The “Swansea” trajectory isn’t being followed - a trajectory appropriate to the players is.

There was a quote I highlighted earlier in this thread where LM expressed a view that maybe he’d overloaded the players. I viewed it post match as him trying to be a bit too clever. In hindsight, and considering the stylistic tweaks since, it may well have been him saying he’d got it wrong and acknowledging that the overloading to his initial preferred style hadn’t worked.

Or maybe he'd only been in the job for less than a month and needed some time to get his ideas across.

I can't be the only one that didn't expect immediate results/performances when he came in?

[Silvio Dante]

16 minutes ago, RedRoss said:

Or maybe he'd only been in the job for less than a month and needed some time to get his ideas across.

I can't be the only one that didn't expect immediate results/performances when he came in?

I don’t think anybody did. The nuance here is that the way we play has fundamentally changed in the last three games - the stats in terms of possession and passes alone evidence that. 
 

Again, it’s massive credit to LM that he has shifted the way we play. But comments such as “needing to get ideas across” or “it’s taken this long for the players to get it” arent the gotcha people think it is. If we’d won the last three playing a possession heavy approach then that’s totally valid. But we’re playing a different way. And that is down to LM tweaking it - but it is wholly reasonable to say he got it wrong to start with and is getting it right now chiefly by changing the way he wanted us to play as opposed to “taking time to get ideas across”.

I don’t care how he’s got to this point - but he’s got there and long may it continue. But things ain’t as black and white as the “taking time to impose ideas” argument. He’s adapted - and that was my main concern about him from the first games. 

[Malago]

2 hours ago, O'Garlandinho said:

This thread rightly dragged back up to highlight the ridiculous over-reaction to a narrow away loss at a decent champ side, where we played ok. Some of the comments are outrageous.

We were awful until we went 2-0 down and then had a 20 min spell when we played well until Manning brought on the 2nd lot of subs.

Now water under the bridge.

Edited December 28, 2023 by Malago

[KingHillRed]

5 hours ago, Lew-T said:

There is always one that drags old threads up.

Dick waving.

Not at all - I would say there were plenty here that had knives out for a gaffer that was (and is still) in his infancy here.

Just good to have perspective/balanced opinion on things.