The Gaffer speaks after tonight’s defeat

[Silvio Dante]

1 minute ago, GrahamC said:

Me too.

We weren’t interested in Eustace, we wanted this type & the other 2 possibles were similar to him.

I think Manning was always first choice (as they were aping McKenna in their mind) but did we ever find out who the mystery German was that @Kid in the Riot alluded to?

[Numero Uno]

16 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

I don't think he's dull or lacking in confidence. He just needs time - admittedly JL etc haven't made it easy for him with their comments.

And I'm not worried that we'll get relegated. NP only managed 12 points in his first 15 games and we stayed up. There are worse teams than us in this division.

Pearson had a lot more to deal with in his first 15 games. Whatever your view on this debate pretty much EVERYONE agrees we have an average squad for the level. Manning has taken over a far better situation than Pearson inherited and 12 points from Manning’s first 15 games will be unacceptable. 17-20 and showing signs it will improve will be mediocre but acceptable. So that’s a minimum of 13 from the next 9, hardly a huge target to achieve, in fact as we were going before he arrived.

[KingHillRed]

I think Manning said it himself in the interview - perhaps we are over-loading the players with too much information at once.

This is a very fair observation bearing in mind that they were playing a different way for 3 months before LM.

We can all see what he is trying to implement here he just needs time (and players that can do it) - one thing he's guaranteed here is time.

I'm behind him and if he can get it right sooner rather than later the fickleness of football will bring majority of fans back around.

[Red Exile]

13 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Me too.

We weren’t interested in Eustace, we wanted this type & the other 2 possibles were similar to him.

If anyone said no to us my guess is it was the Portsmouth manager.

...therein lies the absurdity off the whole situation. We again appoint a rookie at this level - a coach, not an experienced manager - to lead a side to success in one of the toughest leagues in the world...where sides with parachute payments field world class Prem level players with regularity, where more or less every match is intensely competitive and where the matches come up to twice a week, with few breaks...leaving little time to coach new systems. Without wanting to revisit the LJ debates (no need - the verdict is in - he's doing an indifferent job at Fleetwood) what on earth has possessed the Lansdowns to again ask a rookie to learn in this environment? (Don't bother to reply - I know why)

Graham - you've made reference to QPR - there the approach has been to find a young proven manager, albeit in another country/countries. We are constantly fishing in the wrong pond. We've ditched Pearson's Prem experienced set-up and I fear we have replaced it with League One.

And to those arguing for giving Manning time - it won't be up to us! LJ was failing for months, arguably (by me) from the moment our season fell apart after the Man City game. He was given all the time needed to run the ship onto the rocks, and all the treasure with it. There will be so much loss of Lansdown face if Manning doesn't succeed - he'll get plenty of time.

Good luck to him but I rather despair!

[Red Exile]

21 minutes ago, KingHillRed said:

I think Manning said it himself in the interview - perhaps we are over-loading the players with too much information at once.

This is a very fair observation bearing in mind that they were playing a different way for 3 months before LM.

We can all see what he is trying to implement here he just needs time (and players that can do it) - one thing he's guaranteed here is time.

I'm behind him and if he can get it right sooner rather than later the fickleness of football will bring majority of fans back around.

BTW...fascinating to see what the club's media team strategy is. Try to flood OTIB - a respected and slightly feared forum for dissenting views - with new accounts expressing views supportive of the status quo. Get people arguing with these new posters and deflect the criticism. 

A word of advice - focus on creating something positive worth communicating and find some communicators. Address the core of the criticisms - don't waste your time trying disrupt the critique. Many of us on here have been following the club 20/30/40/50/60 years. Football fans aren't so fickle. 

Edited December 13, 2023 by Red Exile

[AshtonGreat]

25 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Pearson had a lot more to deal with in his first 15 games. Whatever your view on this debate pretty much EVERYONE agrees we have an average squad for the level. Manning has taken over a far better situation than Pearson inherited and 12 points from Manning’s first 15 games will be unacceptable. 17-20 and showing signs it will improve will be mediocre but acceptable. So that’s a minimum of 13 from the next 9, hardly a huge target to achieve, in fact as we were going before he arrived.

There were some good players in that squad

[KingHillRed]

6 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

...therein lies the absurdity off the whole situation. We again appoint a rookie at this level - a coach, not an experienced manager - to lead a side to success in one of the toughest leagues in the world...where sides with parachute payments field world class Prem level players with regularity, where more or less every match is intensely competitive and where the matches come up to twice a week, with few breaks...leaving little time to coach new systems. Without wanting to revisit the LJ debates (no need - the verdict is in - he's doing an indifferent job at Fleetwood) what on earth has possessed the Lansdowns to again ask a rookie to learn in this environment? (Don't bother to reply - I know why)

Graham - you've made reference to QPR - there the approach has been to find a young proven manager, albeit in another country/countries. We are constantly fishing in the wrong pond. We've ditched Pearson's Prem experienced set-up and I fear we have replaced it with League One.

And to those arguing for giving Manning time - it won't be up to us! LJ was failing for months, arguably (by me) from the moment our season fell apart after the Man City game. He was given all the time needed to run the ship onto the rocks, and all the treasure with it. There will be so much loss of Lansdown face if Manning doesn't succeed - he'll get plenty of time.

Good luck to him but I rather despair!

This is absolutely spot on - good man

[Numero Uno]

2 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

There were some good players in that squad

There was some total shit as well. We were picking up points under Holden and getting outplayed every week pretty much. Do you remember that win at home to Huddersfield?

I don’t know one person, you excepted perhaps, that doesn’t accept Pearson inherited a mess.

[Sturgess]

As avoidable and foreseeable this uncertainty was [in sacking Nige], I genuinely don't think we can associate Ashton Gate and toxic in the same sentence.Sure, we may get the odd chorus of boos and the like, but if ever there were a time, it would/should've happened after Nige was sacked.

The gate feels very vanilla and flat nowadays, with little of the sparkle or magic I remember growing up - it could just be I'm old and cynical, granted. However, it was that magic that built my life-long passion for the club - what entices the new generation to attend [and their parents to fork out]?

Dare I say it, it feels like the majority have been beaten into submission and reluctantly accept the club is distant, despite tokens such as the Robins Foundation. It all just feels clinical.

Sorry, rant over and I signed up to this torture for life!

[mozo]

3 hours ago, robin_unreliant said:

From what I remember they were mostly saying that what they were seeing didn't match what was happening in training. Naismith was very critical of Max constantly humping it long and for players not moving into space to make options for a pass. He said they needed to be braver 

It was exactly what I would've said. However it seemed more critical of the players than the coach.

Yes, Kal and Nahki were very critical of the long kicking from O'Leary and baffled by the lack of bravery and leadership on the pitch to pass their way out of defence.

People are moaning about Manning's possession based football, but in the first hour of that game City were too timid to pass the ball, kept going long and kept giving the ball back to an increasingly confident Blackburn. The goals were coming after that pressure built.

Last half hour, we suddenly woke up and started moving the ball around and it led to one goal and a fair few dangerous attacks.

[KingHillRed]

2 minutes ago, mozo said:

Yes, Kal and Nahki were very critical of the long kicking from O'Leary and baffled by the lack of bravery and leadership on the pitch to pass their way out of defence.

People are moaning about Manning's possession based football, but in the first hour of that game City were too timid to pass the ball, kept going long and kept giving the ball back to an increasingly confident Blackburn. The goals were coming after that pressure built.

Last half hour, we suddenly woke up and started moving the ball around and it led to one goal and a fair few dangerous attacks.

Yes this is right - Kal and Nakhi surprised that training isn't at least, trying, to be replicated on the field

This isn't LM's fault - as it isn't with any manager - if what is being done 'on the grass' isn't translating to the pitch, it is the players that have to execute

The reality here is two fold:

 - We don't have a top 6 squad, that was horses**t from Tins

 - The players aren't good/bright enough to implement what is being asked of them - harsh but fair

Doesn't matter what manager is brought in, the reality of the above is always going to be limiting so it makes sense to bring someone like LM in (long term) and back him with recruitment 

Lansdowns have got it so, so wrong we all know that but there needs to be a 'line in the sand' and accept whatever comes under the "right" style coach or 'on grass' setup

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, lenred said:

It’s a really good point amongst the madness. If Manning does go who the heck do we get next! Hopefully he turns it around and we don’t need to get to that stage any time soon but the whole set up is such a shit show of incompetence that whenever that time does come you’ll bet it’ll be another nightmare.   They just need to go.   They are completely and utterly clueless.   

Duff. Michael Duff, not as in “duff appointment”!

3 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

He just sounded like a monotone bore, no disrespect to the guy, and managed to shoehorn "behaviours in" (Bullshit Bingo cards at the ready every week moving forwards lads). To me he didn't sound broken, finished, excited, hyperactive or nothing - just completely and utterly boring and emotionLESS to listen to. As I don't want the bloke to fail but CANNOT listen to that every week, I shall be giving his interviews a miss........permanently.

I did say his post-match interviews might not be for some / many.  They will be very samey!

2 hours ago, nebristolred said:

 

Oh for **** sake.

I hadn't clocked this at the time but this is exactly what has happened isn't it?

All alleged of course, but.

You reach out to Richard Scudamore to recommend you someone who can be a CEO but brings a commercial skillset you don’t have already.  I’m not sure that was RG’s skillset either, he was much more strategy / organisation imho.

You then sack the guy and say you have the skills in the group already…and restructure around that sacking.

So why appoint him in the first place?  Another piece of revisionism from the hierarchy!

Imagine turning up to find the Chairman signing off stuff without following the process, e.g. kit / O’Neils.  Imagine spending £100k on scarves when you’re trying to convince the EFL that you’re within FFP.  Imagine thinking Watches of Bath is the best you can get as a sleeve sponsor.

 

55 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

There were some good players in that squad

Yep, but there wasn’t / isn’t a squad of good players!

[Denbury Red]

From my point of view we seem to have an ok defence (most of the time), an ok midfield on its day - but a strike force that is clearly lacking in finishing ability and experience.

Had Tommy converted his great chance last night the game is very different.

We need a striker, or two who can score goals - perhaps try Jason Knight or Mark Sykes in the centre forward role - they seem to be able to finish better - but who knows!!!

[AshtonGreat]

15 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Duff. Michael Duff, not as in “duff appointment”!

I did say his post-match interviews might not be for some / many.  They will be very samey!

All alleged of course, but.

You reach out to Richard Scudamore to recommend you someone who can be a CEO but brings a commercial skillset you don’t have already.  I’m not sure that was RG’s skillset either, he was much more strategy / organisation imho.

You then sack the guy and say you have the skills in the group already…and restructure around that sacking.

So why appoint him in the first place?  Another piece of revisionism from the hierarchy!

Imagine turning up to find the Chairman signing off stuff without following the process, e.g. kit / O’Neils.  Imagine spending £100k on scarves when you’re trying to convince the EFL that you’re within FFP.  Imagine thinking Watches of Bath is the best you can get as a sleeve sponsor.

 

Yep, but there wasn’t / isn’t a squad of good players!

You could argue that there wae still enough to get more points on the board than we did. Anyway, the fact still remains that it's illogical to judge a manager after six games or whatever it is. Even if you have an agenda (as many people do), what good will it do haranguing LM out of a job before he's been given a fair crack of the whip? 

[Cov 77]

13 hours ago, BCFCGav said:

It feels like everyone’s losing at the moment, he was clearly onto something at Oxford. May well have had a League title on his CV come May. Poor bloke looks downbeat.

Definitely people losing it , not happy with the last few results but some of the crap posted on here about him is just laughable , it may take time , it may work in may not but most on here are taking their pro Nige , anti board rants out on this guy , get a grip ffs 

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 hours ago, supercidered said:

Trouble is if we don't get points against those down the bottom then we really are in the sh!t.

I think we will have enough but yeah those games could become pivotal now.

Let's hope something clicks and we beat Sunderland and get on a stable run at least..its all so self-inflicted and needless though this, and how NP and his team were treated remains shocking.

[Natchfever]

1 hour ago, Red Exile said:

BTW...fascinating to see what the club's media team strategy is. Try to flood OTIB - a respected and slightly feared forum for dissenting views - with new accounts expressing views supportive of the status quo. Get people arguing with these new posters and deflect the criticism. 

A word of advice - focus on creating something positive worth communicating and find some communicators. Address the core of the criticisms - don't waste your time trying disrupt the critique. Many of us on here have been following the club 20/30/40/50/60 years. Football fans aren't so fickle. 

 

[Superjack]

3 hours ago, Bedred31 said:

Football’s a results business, though some managers buck this a bit/ for a bit by personality, the new manager bounce and a background of proven success. Interviews like this suggest that LM’s going to be dependent entirely on results and I rather fear for him.

He's not. 

They will give him years no matter what. Just like they did with Johnson.

Unless he upsets them, of course.

[nebristolred]

23 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

You could argue that there wae still enough to get more points on the board than we did. Anyway, the fact still remains that it's illogical to judge a manager after six games or whatever it is. Even if you have an agenda (as many people do), what good will it do haranguing LM out of a job before he's been given a fair crack of the whip? 

Who's been doing that? I haven't seen many (if any) posts suggesting that.

Complaining about the board's ineptitude in getting to this situation isn't the same as wanting LM gone, or not wanting him to succeed.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, AshtonGreat said:

There were some good players in that squad

On paper yes but it was a catastrophic position overall...

*6 losses in the spin in the League, most of them fairly comprehensive.

*Morale had totally collapsed. Barnsley at home was one particular nadir, Watford away another but there were multiple.

*The Injury list was surely pushing double figures week in week out.

*A good chunk of the squad were out of contract in the summer, Ashton interview at Norwich on Sky barely helped.

*Behind closed doors football in itself, no fans to either rally you or sharply criticise you- it's a soulless experience behind closed doors football.

I'd say despite some decent players on paper, NP inherited an absolute shambles.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

There was some total shit as well. We were picking up points under Holden and getting outplayed every week pretty much. Do you remember that win at home to Huddersfield?

I don’t know one person, you excepted perhaps, that doesn’t accept Pearson inherited a mess.

The Huddersfield game confused me, I remember it well. We started fine, 2 up in 20-25 mins then just went pure bunker defence whereas the prior home game we had actually beaten Preston and looked fine, stable at least. I don't understand why we went all bunker, Huddersfield were a bottom 3rd side at that point.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[W-S-M Seagull]

2 hours ago, KingHillRed said:

I think Manning said it himself in the interview - perhaps we are over-loading the players with too much information at once.

This is a very fair observation bearing in mind that they were playing a different way for 3 months before LM.

We can all see what he is trying to implement here he just needs time (and players that can do it) - one thing he's guaranteed here is time.

I'm behind him and if he can get it right sooner rather than later the fickleness of football will bring majority of fans back around.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. If this continues and we get near or in that relegation zone which is a real possibility, it's going to be impossible for him to remain here. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 hour ago, Red Exile said:

BTW...fascinating to see what the club's media team strategy is. Try to flood OTIB - a respected and slightly feared forum for dissenting views - with new accounts expressing views supportive of the status quo. Get people arguing with these new posters and deflect the criticism. 

A word of advice - focus on creating something positive worth communicating and find some communicators. Address the core of the criticisms - don't waste your time trying disrupt the critique. Many of us on here have been following the club 20/30/40/50/60 years. Football fans aren't so fickle. 

Everyone was saying how good communication now is because of those run of interviews and the fans forum. 

Where's the communication now that we're doing shit? Oh yea, Tins isn't even on X anymore. 

Communication is only good when the club want it to be. When they've got something positive to share, they will over share it. 

When questions are asked of them they disappear like the cowards that they are. 

If we were an actual club that cared about communication, they'd get BT or/and JL on Sound of the City. And not only that but do it live and allow listeners to come on and ask questions. But they won't do that. 

We won't hear from them now unless things improve. 

[AshtonGreat]

13 minutes ago, nebristolred said:

Who's been doing that? I haven't seen many (if any) posts suggesting that.

Complaining about the board's ineptitude in getting to this situation isn't the same as wanting LM gone, or not wanting him to succeed.

I've seen loads of posts criticising LM, saying he's out of his depth, boring, lacking confidence etc. The forum is rife with them 

[Superjack]

He's not the 'Gaffer'. 

They don't want a 'Gaffer'.

He's a coach.

[AshtonGreat]

12 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

On paper yes but it was a catastrophic position overall...

*6 losses in the spin in the League, most of them fairly comprehensive.

*Morale had totally collapsed. Barnsley at home was one particular nadir, Watford away another but there were multiple.

True, but NP's first two games in charge yielded two good wins, which should've gone some way to restoring morale/confidence

12 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

*The Injury list was surely pushing double figures week in week out.

Is the squad really that much better now?

12 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

*A good chunk of the squad were out of contract in the summer, Ashton interview at Norwich on Sky barely helped.

I'll give you that.

12 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

*Behind closed doors football in itself, no fans to either rally you or sharply criticise you- it's a soulless experience behind closed doors football.

Same for everyone though...

12 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'd say despite some decent players on paper, NP inherited an absolute shambles.

 

[W-S-M Seagull]

7 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

I've seen loads of posts criticising LM, saying he's out of his depth, boring, lacking confidence etc. The forum is rife with them 

Don't think I've seen one post saying he should be sacked, yet. 

Everyone here wants Manning to succeed, because if he does, it means we will succeed. However it is likely he'll bugger off at the first opportunity. 

Right now people are pointing out the mistakes Manning has made in the hope that he will learn from them. 

A few weeks ago I posted about my concerns of over loading the players. In his last two interviews he himself admits that may have happened. 

[Jefferz]

Any takers for a bet: I propose that Wrexham have a better chance of making the Premier league than Bristol City

[fisherrich]

Just now, Jefferz said:

Any takers for a bet: I propose that Wrexham have a better chance of making the Premier league than Bristol City

Depends on whether the frigging Lansdowns are still here!

[Superjack]

1 minute ago, Jefferz said:

Any takers for a bet: I propose that Wrexham have a better chance of making the Premier league than Bristol City

I propose that Brixham do.