Senior Reds today, guest Jon Lansdown

[CityReds]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

It just seems to me anyway as if it is:

*Choppy                                     

*Too many cooks                     

*Blurred lines of responsibility and demarcation.

Tinnion is overpromoted, Jon Lansdown seems incompetent.

A Group CEO and finance guy.

A new manager with promise yet vast inexperience has to go for top 10 disasterclass while working within this disasterclass of a structure.

‘Too many cooks’ and all that could never be truer right now.

From what I’ve heard Tom Rawcliffe was a major factor in getting us to where we are now with ffp. I don’t see him as a leader though, he needs to step up and be seen or move back to a more traditional CFO role and allow someone with true Operational experience step up 

[Harry]

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I'm bored of saying it but Nige is really unwell and couldn't properly carry out his duties. I hate the City board as everyone will know, but I do have sympathy with them on this point. Nige probably had to go. 

I am also in the camp that says he wasn’t able to spend time on the training ground and therefore wasn’t fit and able to perform his core responsibilities. 
This was something I’d discussed on here a couple of weeks prior to the dismissal. 
 

However, notwithstanding all that, if Nige had to go because he wasn’t capable from a physical point of view, why would they then go the whole bollock and dismiss Rennie, Euell & Fleming too? 
 

If it was just Nige’s health then just Nige should have gone. Whilst I think it was a factor I also think it was a very handy excuse to get rid. 

Edited December 22, 2023 by Harry

[W-S-M Seagull]

4 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Alexander highly unpopular was he?

I'll admit from the outside, I didn't especially warm to him. (Not that I warm to any of the hierarchy now either).

I assume Gould wasn't unpopular or was he?

Many people work at Bristol City/Sport based on who they know, rather than ability. It's certainly not the best person for the job model that Brighton follow. 

If Phil was unpopular, it's probably because he tried to transition us more towards that Brighton model and people didn't like that because they know they are not the best people for the job. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

4 hours ago, MarcusX said:

This is what I’m accepting as the truth behind the decision and timing of Pearson leaving. The only sense I can really make of it is that NPs health is worse than he let on and it was in his best interest, even if he didn’t agree.

You can't sack someone because of their health. 

Of course they've dressed it up as he was under performing etc but if it was a consideration in their decision, then thats ******* wrong on some many levels. Especially from a club that likes to promote how much good they do. 

Nige seems to be well enough to go for walks on the beach. 

[Lewisdabaron]

5 hours ago, Ghost Rider said:

It's a bit peculiar that most of the fanbase won't get access to a Q&A with our chairman simply because of age. It feels a bit... off, doesn't it?

Imagine if it was the other was around. Sorry, you're too old that have this information. 

Discriminatory even? I wonder about the legality of this?

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Red from afar said:

Out of interest, does the club have any non-executive directors? Surely their guidance should have advised against the current structure as it doesn't seem to conform to best business practice.

Richard Scudamore has attended some board meetings, presumably in an advisory capacity.

Amazingly with his background in running the premier league and having worked in newspapers he seems to not wield much influence.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Many people work at Bristol City/Sport based on who they know, rather than ability. It's certainly not the best person for the job model that Brighton follow. 

If Phil was unpopular, it's probably because he tried to transition us more towards that Brighton model and people didn't like that because they know they are not the best people for the job. 

This time and again, people leave, find the real world too difficult to deal with and are then later re-recruited.

Do they have a professional HR department? I think it unlikely.

[Simon bristol]

Was anyone really expecting a call from the club regarding the manager appointment?? Si, its jon, how you doing pal, so we are looking at liam manning,, we are giving you the final decision… what other clubs do that?.

and as for the accounts being released,,  I consider myself to be fairly switched on,, but the date that bristol city announce this year’s corporate losses (maybe even a gain this year if scotts fee is included) has zero impact on my life, or my opinion from a supporters point of view! Are people planning partys to check the figures and need advanced notice of when to book a suitable venue? Presumably some accountant within the group is preparing the accounts, which may or may not require auditing, which maybe outside the sphere of influence of jl, so him not knowing the date of release is of little consequence to him or anyone else,, there are plenty of other complaints to raise about how the club is run!

[Rob k]

4 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

You can't sack someone because of their health. 

Of course they've dressed it up as he was under performing etc but if it was a consideration in their decision, then thats ******* wrong on some many levels. Especially from a club that likes to promote how much good they do. 

Nige seems to be well enough to go for walks on the beach. 

You don’t sack them in the traditional way,  (as far as I’m aware) the term of their contract will be paid up, or they continued to be paid until they get re-employed by another club. 

[Jacki]

11 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

"Worry" is an understatement.  It's terrifying and unprecedented at this level of professional football.

Interviews for Nige's successor were carried out by Jon, his friend (Sean G), and Tinnion. 

They could accidentally appoint the next Pep, and it would still go wrong further down the line, because there is no accountability or footballing noise at the level required. 

The next fall guys will be Tinnion or Manning, or both, and the circus will simply roll on into the next town.

Completely agree with all of this.

Who is Sean G? This sounds like the most ridiculous thing of all….

[Harry]

40 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

Was anyone really expecting a call from the club regarding the manager appointment?? Si, its jon, how you doing pal, so we are looking at liam manning,, we are giving you the final decision… what other clubs do that?.

and as for the accounts being released,,  I consider myself to be fairly switched on,, but the date that bristol city announce this year’s corporate losses (maybe even a gain this year if scotts fee is included) has zero impact on my life, or my opinion from a supporters point of view! Are people planning partys to check the figures and need advanced notice of when to book a suitable venue? Presumably some accountant within the group is preparing the accounts, which may or may not require auditing, which maybe outside the sphere of influence of jl, so him not knowing the date of release is of little consequence to him or anyone else,, there are plenty of other complaints to raise about how the club is run!

Point 1. I agree. Fans do not have a say in recruitment of managers and I wouldn’t expect to. 
 

Point 2. I disagree. The accounts for BCFC are usually out by now. We have always done this early. 
I have no problem in this being done later. Jon says that it’s to ensure we release them at the same time as the other groups (ie AG Holdings, Bristol Sport, Pula etc). No problem with that whatsoever. Makes perfect sense. 
But……. I’d expect the chairman to know approximately when that’s gonna be. The fact he doesn’t know is a huge red light that says to me that our chairman has zero handle on any detail at the club. That’s the worry. 

Edited December 22, 2023 by Harry

[Merrick's Marvels]

8 hours ago, 2015 said:

I just think the bloke is arrogant and Tinnion is delusional.

Lansdown junior is just plain inarticulate, for me. Tinnion conniving, as well as delusional.

Edited December 22, 2023 by Merrick's Marvels

[GrahamC]

Firstly thanks to @Galley is our king for sharing this, fair play.

Secondly well done to those Senior Reds who attempted to hold our chairman to account.

For those asking for a transcript or why this or that question wasn’t asked, you need to have gone to the Hen & Chicken one or if old enough become a Senior Red, getting on a forum & asking others to do something you won’t is equally as pathetic as our chairman.

Moving on to him, has anyone at the club ever been more over promoted or fallen upwards with so little merit (Tinnion runs him close).

What a total shambles we are off the pitch, but of course we “should be grateful for the Lansdowns” & “be careful what you wish for”. I’m a supporter of over 50 years & remember shit times but no one running the club came close to the nepotism & cozy mates club of these jokers.

When they sacked Pearson (& as an aside Google Oscar Washington Tabarez for Uruguay as someone who continued in post whilst incapacitated) that was the final straw for me, incompetent mediocrities who should sell up.

18 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Lansdown junior is just plain inarticulate, for me. Tinnion conniving, as well as delusional.

The latter also remarkably dense.

 

Edited December 22, 2023 by GrahamC

[Merrick's Marvels]

9 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I'm bored of saying it but Nige is really unwell and couldn't properly carry out his duties. I hate the City board as everyone will know, but I do have sympathy with them on this point.

Smokescreen.

They kicked a man when he was down. A top man. A man who'd saved their incompetent backsides.

It's not a good look.

Edited December 22, 2023 by Merrick's Marvels

[ExiledAjax]

5 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

You can't sack someone because of their health. 

Of course they've dressed it up as he was under performing etc but if it was a consideration in their decision, then thats ******* wrong on some many levels. Especially from a club that likes to promote how much good they do. 

Nige seems to be well enough to go for walks on the beach. 

You can sack someone because of their health.

But if you do it arbitrarily then you open yourself up to them claiming against you.

So you need your contract to anticipate it, and include a clause that says something like "if for any reason, including health, you can't fulfill the duties of the job for X number of weeks, we can terminate the contract". There will be sub clauses saying that the manager has to get examined, has to get doctors notes etc.

Which is a fairly common clause in managers' contracts.

It's exactly the same type of contractual amendment that you see in contracts relating to the limit on 48 hour working weeks. 

Edited December 22, 2023 by ExiledAjax

[GrahamC]

5 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

You can't sack someone because of their health. 

Of course they've dressed it up as he was under performing etc but if it was a consideration in their decision, then thats ******* wrong on some many levels. Especially from a club that likes to promote how much good they do. 

Nige seems to be well enough to go for walks on the beach. 

You absolutely can & I have done so a fair few times in my career (& I work in the public sector!).

The debate for me is whether we needed to, his coaches are fit & well & extremely competent.

He attended games, picked the side & there were no signs that he is incapable of the parts of the role that fall solely to him, the players continued to give everything.

It has gone now but whatever Manning achieves has scarred my relationship with the club.

[johnbytheriver]

Sad thing is dispite JL'S flippant and insulting two-fingered ignorant answers we are all hoping  for 3 points tonight.No one is walking away!

Edited December 22, 2023 by johnbytheriver
omitted a letter

[Bazooka Joe]

Are there branches of Senior Reds in Spanish-speaking countries?

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Countryfile said:

Richard Scudamore has attended some board meetings, presumably in an advisory capacity.

Amazingly with his background in running the premier league and having worked in newspapers he seems to not wield much influence.

He was the one who recommended Phil Alexander. Can only imagine he’s not happy they decided to get rid of him within a year.

2 hours ago, Simon bristol said:

Was anyone really expecting a call from the club regarding the manager appointment?? Si, its jon, how you doing pal, so we are looking at liam manning,, we are giving you the final decision… what other clubs do that?.

and as for the accounts being released,,  I consider myself to be fairly switched on,, but the date that bristol city announce this year’s corporate losses (maybe even a gain this year if scotts fee is included) has zero impact on my life, or my opinion from a supporters point of view! Are people planning partys to check the figures and need advanced notice of when to book a suitable venue? Presumably some accountant within the group is preparing the accounts, which may or may not require auditing, which maybe outside the sphere of influence of jl, so him not knowing the date of release is of little consequence to him or anyone else,, there are plenty of other complaints to raise about how the club is run!

Yes, me and Mr P have got to book a room and get the dancing girls arranged!!!

Seriously though. Nobody needs to know the exact date. Anyone who is genuinely interested will already know that the club  have changed their year end from May to June along with all the other companies, so all we needed to hear was something along the lines of - they are being prepared, then they get audited before publication. We cannot give you a definitive date. There was no need to make the year end date change an excuse for not being able to answer in a clear way. 

1 hour ago, Harry said:

Point 1. I agree. Fans do not have a say in recruitment of managers and I wouldn’t expect to. 
 

Point 2. I disagree. The accounts for BCFC are usually out by now. We have always done this early. 
I have no problem in this being done later. Jon says that it’s to ensure we release them at the same time as the other groups (ie AG Holdings, Bristol Sport, Pula etc). No problem with that whatsoever. Makes perfect sense. 
But……. I’d expect the chairman to know approximately when that’s gonna be. The fact he doesn’t know is a huge red light that says to me that our chairman has zero handle on any detail at the club. That’s the worry. 

Yes, he is basically playing at his “job”.  It also sounds like he really has no idea what a CEO’s role is if he thinks Tins is learning the ropes.  By all means Tins can carry out certain tasks needed by the football club that were previously done by the CEO but they aren’t grooming Tins to be CEO. What a ridiculous response from him. 

[Kid in the Riot]

52 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Smokescreen.

They kicked a man when he was down. A top man. A man who'd saved their incompetent backsides.

It's not a good look.

 

50 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

You absolutely can & I have done so a fair few times in my career (& I work in the public sector!).

The debate for me is whether we needed to, his coaches are fit & well & extremely competent.

He attended games, picked the side & there were no signs that he is incapable of the parts of the role that fall solely to him, the players continued to give everything.

It has gone now but whatever Manning achieves has scarred my relationship with the club.

Not sure it can be a smokescreen given the board have never highlighted it as a reason for dismissal. 

Also, he still cannot walk unaided. That is just the way it is and clearly he needs a decent amount of time away from work to recover. 

If you recall after the Coventry game I think it was he claimed he just needed a minor op and he'd need 48 hours off for it. I think clearly the situation is more serious than that and both he and the club knew he was going to have to take a much longer period away from the job. 

All I'm saying is that this is the one point I sympathise with the club on. A judgement call has to be made there on whether you can stick with someone that can't carry out some of their duties in the job, is going to be away from the job for a period of time, and at the time had no prognosis. 

And to clarify, I'm not suggesting for a moment it was the only reason they got rid of him. Of course a disintegrating personal relationship and lack of progress in terms of results and performances played their part. 

But there is a reality the bloke is not well and will not be back in work for a while, which is incredibly unfortunate, and I wish him well.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

6 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

You can't sack someone because of their health. 

Of course they've dressed it up as he was under performing etc but if it was a consideration in their decision, then thats ******* wrong on some many levels. Especially from a club that likes to promote how much good they do. 

Nige seems to be well enough to go for walks on the beach. 

Still on his crutches some three months later. 

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I'm saying is that this is the one point I sympathise with the club on. A judgement call has to be made there on whether you can stick with someone that can't carry out some of their duties in the job, is going to be away from the job for a period of time, and at the time had no prognosis. 

I get what you’re saying, but they sacked 3 others at the same time!!!  That tells me a lot about how our Chairman works. 

[Selred]

6 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Nige seems to be well enough to go for walks on the beach. 

On crutches...

[Kid in the Riot]

12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I get what you’re saying, but they sacked 3 others at the same time!!!  That tells me a lot about how our Chairman works. 

I think a few factors came together at one time, from the board's perspective, didn't they? 

This was all pretty inevitable though, going back to when they nearly fired him twice last season. 

[spudski]

13 hours ago, Harry said:

Can this collection of buffoons and bozo’s get anything aligned?? 
 

One minute we have a top 10 budget, and then Tinnion is pushed on this on the radio and confirms it’s not. 
Next we make a managerial change because, and I quote “why wait - because we want to be at the top end of this division”. Now we’re happy with 10th! Which is kinda where we were anyway. 
 

We have a bloke in charge of everything that is “growing into it”. 
We have a chairman who doesn’t know when the accounts are due. 

And now we’ve got a player analyst, (whose responsibility is to watch videos of players and file scout reports on them) sitting in on the interviews for a new manager!!! 
The new manager should be coming in and telling the player analyst what HE wants, not the player analyst having a say in who the manager should be!! 
Imagine if you’re attending an interview for a senior manager role at Hargreaves Lansdown and they say “interviewing today will be the Chairman, the CEO and Dave from Accounts”.
 

The interviewee has been interviewed by a bloke who will be reporting to him!! Utter utter madness! 
There is no way in the world you should attend a job interview and be interviewed by the bloke who will be working UNDER you! That’s one of the most crackpot things I’ve heard - and they’ve done some bloody crackpot things!!  

I'd love some media reporter to have the balls to quote this verbatim to either JL or BT. 

If you are reading any media person ...do it. The fan base would hold you in great respect I'm sure. 

 

[MarcusX]

7 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

You can't sack someone because of their health. 

Of course they've dressed it up as he was under performing etc but if it was a consideration in their decision, then thats ******* wrong on some many levels. Especially from a club that likes to promote how much good they do. 

Nige seems to be well enough to go for walks on the beach. 

Yep legally we all know that, but we also know football works differently to most places of employment.

Do you really put it past the people running our club?

Im not sure there’s much comparison between a leisurely stroll on the beach and the stresses of professional football management 

[spudski]

42 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

 

Not sure it can be a smokescreen given the board have never highlighted it as a reason for dismissal. 

Also, he still cannot walk unaided. That is just the way it is and clearly he needs a decent amount of time away from work to recover. 

If you recall after the Coventry game I think it was he claimed he just needed a minor op and he'd need 48 hours off for it. I think clearly the situation is more serious than that and both he and the club knew he was going to have to take a much longer period away from the job. 

All I'm saying is that this is the one point I sympathise with the club on. A judgement call has to be made there on whether you can stick with someone that can't carry out some of their duties in the job, is going to be away from the job for a period of time, and at the time had no prognosis. 

And to clarify, I'm not suggesting for a moment it was the only reason they got rid of him. Of course a disintegrating personal relationship and lack of progress in terms of results and performances played their part. 

But there is a reality the bloke is not well and will not be back in work for a while, which is incredibly unfortunate, and I wish him well.

When you say he's unwell...does it affect his judgement?

If it's not affecting his judgement then what's the problem?

He uses Coaches to do training. Instructs from the side. Can relay his message. 

If God forbid a manager lost the use of his legs, and required a motorised wheelchair to operate, would that be considered unable to operate and do his job properly?

I can't see it being a problem. 

If he was in the grass as a coach...then maybe. 

But as long as his judgement isn't diminished then I honestly can't see it being a problem. 

[Kid in the Riot]

9 minutes ago, spudski said:

When you say he's unwell...does it affect his judgement?

If it's not affecting his judgement then what's the problem?

He uses Coaches to do training. Instructs from the side. Can relay his message. 

If God forbid a manager lost the use of his legs, and required a motorised wheelchair to operate, would that be considered unable to operate and do his job properly?

I can't see it being a problem. 

If he was in the grass as a coach...then maybe. 

But as long as his judgement isn't diminished then I honestly can't see it being a problem. 

It's a neurological condition, so in theory, yes it could effect all kinds of things. 

He was being seen less and less at the HPC in the last 6/7 weeks due to mobility issues, whereas prior to that I believe he was in pretty much every day.

As a keen "observer" that would suggest he was missing out on some important aspects of the job, and just spending time with the staff and players. I guess that could effect your judgement too.

Ultimately, I guess we'll never know. 

[Galley is our king]

52 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Still on his crutches some three months later. 

NO NO NO!!!

Being on crutches does not take away any functions like your brain, you can still see, talk, hear. Infact everything you could do before you needed them!

Your employer has to make reasonable adjustments before sacking so, he could have sat down instead of standing watching training, sat up in the terrace at the hpc etc.

Christ, you are supposed to help and support your employee not use it as a ******* excuse to get rid!

If you were, or anyone was at Senior Reds yesterday I am the chap getting around on 2 crutches. Doesn't stop me doing anything I can assure you! I retired age 65 and spent the last 4 years working on crutches. No adjustments necessary. I was a construction industry project manager trained in the Architectural profession. My boss wanted me to stay on another year!

Crutches are an aid and nothing more!!!

Rant over.....

[spudski]

3 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

It's a neurological condition, so in theory, yes it could effect all kinds of things. 

He was being seen less and less at the HPC in the last 6/7 weeks due to mobility issues, whereas prior to that I believe he was in pretty much every day.

As a keen "observer" that would suggest he was missing out on some important aspects of the job, and just spending time with the staff and players. I guess that could effect your judgement too.

Ultimately, I guess we'll never know. 

I thought it was a neurological thing that affected his legs, not his judgement. 

If it was his judgement, then NP would have declared himself unable to continue. 

He's not going to do it if he can't commit 100%.

He expects his players to commit 100%, so wouldn't shirk imo.