Max Bird Signed (& loaned back to Derby) - CONFIRMED

[BCFCGav]

10 minutes ago, Ian 6920 said:

Think he has 6 goals in 190 app for us if I remember right.

That is troubling, we've signed him to be our central striker. 

[Betty Swallocks]

17 minutes ago, Ian 6920 said:

Think he has 6 goals in 190 app for us if I remember right.

6 goals and ZERO clean sheets as goalkeeper, it’s almost like we’re buying a deep sitting midfielder. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, Ian 6920 said:

Hi

Sorry to hear you have signed Max, Jason knight was a good player who gives 100 percent every game.Max is poor, doesn’t do much in a game and when he does the pass is either square or backwards, very few Derby fans sorry he’s gone. 
Hope it works out for him and yourselves but will be very surprised if it does.

I don't mean this to be rude or a slight on Derby but sometimes a player needs a change or a rest.

Dickie at QPR, there were some similarities spoken there. Sometimes a chaotic or downward spiral can take a toll..I know Derby are now through the storm but a fresh start can often help.

Reuniting with Knight can also be beneficial to both..there was a feeling among some of our fans that Tommy Conway was missing his both team mate, flatmate and friend Alex Scott who went to Bournemouth in the summer. (He also played with as well as Scott, some others in and around the same Youth team).

We sort of need a passing deeper midfielder so depending on how Bird is utilised he could unlock a few things. We have bite in Williams, experience in James and Knight plus TGH can press, push higher create a bit and room for growth.

Edited February 2 by Mr Popodopolous

[pillred]

2 hours ago, Swede said:

When he does his hamstring he will be ready for our treatment table club

It's been said many times before but we do seem cursed in that respect.

[Slack Bladder]

3 hours ago, Ian 6920 said:

Hi

Sorry to hear you have signed Max, Jason knight was a good player who gives 100 percent every game.Max is poor, doesn’t do much in a game and when he does the pass is either square or backwards, very few Derby fans sorry he’s gone. 
Hope it works out for him and yourselves but will be very surprised if it does.

Well, if he only passes square and backwards, sounds like he's gonna fit right in with our only passing it square and backwards style of football.

[Midred]

3 minutes ago, Slack Bladder said:

Well, if he only passes square and backwards, sounds like he's gonna fit right in with our only passing it square and backwards style of football.

That's perhaps why they've allowed Derby to keep him - to "boost" their promotion push!

[BCFC31]

11 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

No, it’s 3 1/2 year deal and he’s scheduled to play for us for 3 of those. The announcement says until the summer of 2027, so all pretty normal stuff (no mention of options).

More general basis, excluding short term deals, when did you hear of contracts ending in January to make the assumption above???

I didn't read the length of contract properly my bad 

[maxjak]

4 hours ago, Ian 6920 said:

Hi

Sorry to hear you have signed Max, Jason knight was a good player who gives 100 percent every game.Max is poor, doesn’t do much in a game and when he does the pass is either square or backwards, very few Derby fans sorry he’s gone. 
Hope it works out for him and yourselves but will be very surprised if it does.

Envy and   frustration are no way to deal with this?   Off you go now into the nearest pub and cry some bitter tears of regret into your pint?

[Ian M]

I think it's in the rules somewhere that if you're called Ian you have to be a dick.

 

[Unan]

6 hours ago, Ian 6920 said:

Think he has 6 goals in 190 app for us if I remember right.

More than the 25m Alex Scott got for us then 

[Gazred]

Started today and has an assist.

[Derby Boy]

Max is a very tidy footballer. He reads the game well and has an excellent short passing game. Our setup at the moment isn't ideal for him to show this, if there are no forward passing options he will play safe and go backwards or sideways. He's not a great dribbler but will go past players if they are on their heels, or if they are being hesitant watching other runners. He doesn't score many but they tend to be screamers. If you are planning a passing midfield with lots of movement he'll be fine for you. He wouldn't have worked for Pearson, but may well suit Manning.

Here's his assist from yesterday as an example of his skills

I might correct some of you mishaprehentions about our finances and former owner later if I can be bothered.

[Mr Popodopolous]

I think he may have suited NP to some degree given that he himself was intending towards more of a possession game where possible..we were a 4-3-3 side, isn't always possession first of course but be would have been another piece in the jigsaw.

In the final 3rd of last season our possession game was improving with Scott and vs some bottom 3rd sides it was particularly top heavy.

Edited February 4 by Mr Popodopolous

[Iron Acton Red]

23 minutes ago, Derby Boy said:

Max is a very tidy footballer. He reads the game well and has an excellent short passing game. Our setup at the moment isn't ideal for him to show this, if there are no forward passing options he will play safe and go backwards or sideways. He's not a great dribbler but will go past players if they are on their heels, or if they are being hesitant watching other runners. He doesn't score many but they tend to be screamers. If you are planning a passing midfield with lots of movement he'll be fine for you. He wouldn't have worked for Pearson, but may well suit Manning.

Here's his assist from yesterday as an example of his skills

I might correct some of you mishaprehentions about our finances and former owner later if I can be bothered.

Sounds like Lee Johnson

[bcfc01]

28 minutes ago, Derby Boy said:

 

I might correct some of you mishaprehentions about our finances and former owner later if I can be bothered.

Best of luck..

[OliOTIB]

Sorry if already mentioned but how much would his comp have been if signed OOC in July?

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, OliOTIB said:

Sorry if already mentioned but how much would his comp have been if signed OOC in July?

We don’t know, my guess, somewhere between £500k to £1m with a series of add-ons.

Most don’t go to tribunal now, as clubs agree between themselves.

[NcnsBcfc]

The only thing that bugs me about this deal is that we're probably bunging 5k (or something like that) on top of his current Derby deal, for him to play for Derby for the rest of the season.

Fingers crossed he doesn't get injured. It's one thing getting injured in one of our games, another thing all together getting done playing for another side.

I get that like the Stokes deal, it was a pragmatic way of getting the deals over the line, it just feels wrong when we are so low on numbers now.

Edited February 4 by NcnsBcfc

[Mr Popodopolous]

9 hours ago, Derby Boy said:

Max is a very tidy footballer. He reads the game well and has an excellent short passing game. Our setup at the moment isn't ideal for him to show this, if there are no forward passing options he will play safe and go backwards or sideways. He's not a great dribbler but will go past players if they are on their heels, or if they are being hesitant watching other runners. He doesn't score many but they tend to be screamers. If you are planning a passing midfield with lots of movement he'll be fine for you. He wouldn't have worked for Pearson, but may well suit Manning.

Here's his assist from yesterday as an example of his skills

I might correct some of you mishaprehentions about our finances and former owner later if I can be bothered.

Just to add again on Bird and NP and I do look forward to the alternative takes on Mel Morris and the FFP saga too.

I think NP has a bit of an unfair rep. Some in the wider game seem him a dinosaur. Or have done.

I appreciate his spell at Derby wasn't exactly ideal but I was highly surprised..at first I was a bit worried and it's on me, that he would just try and replicate old school 4-4-2, perhaps excessive direct.

My fault, totally on me. Tactically the side had 3-4-phases.

Phase 1

Early days team with awful injuries and morale during a Behind Closed Doors Covid crowd there were some elements of 4-4-2.

Phase 2

Sort of dabbled a bit with a 4-3-3 but more of a 4-4-1-1/4-2-3-1. Pring who is a left back was in front of DaSilva who was srill a regular LB at that time and we had the emphasis on solidity mostly. Stability.

Phase 3

More of a counterattack minded phase. Semenyo returning helped a lot and Scott our main shinjing light finally had something else to work with and it was quite a dynamic counter attacking shape..W-S-M.

No not Weston Super Mare  but Weimann-Semenyo-Martin. Sort of a 3-4-2-1/3-4-3. This was genuinely quite dynamic and we became quite free scoring..we took some thrashings as well however we were cutting costs and yet scoring quite freely at times.

Phase 3, Part 2

This shape continued but evolved the following year, Naismith into the back 3, Baker sadly having to quit through injury saw Naismith and Vyner especially step right up. Naismith gave us a whole new dimension and again we looked quite dynamic- Martin sadly became less effective over time, Weimann and Semenyo however still quite good but not the levels of the year before.

If I had some concerns, they would be that Sykes in hindsight a bit wasted at wingback for one. When Naismith was out incidentally as he was from early October for some months we lost some real forward momentum..results did suffer but creativity too, breaking the lines m. Being hamstrung by budgetary downsizing we couldn't do much about it and that was our own fault, the prior fee years catching up.

By Christmas Naismith I think may still have been our and things were in bad decline. Results were being outstripped by performance and FFP was closing in a tad! We were shoehorning a bit, injuries meant Andy King at centre back, among other things. Some players needed to leave as well.

Phase 4

NP switched to his preferred shape. We had to sell Semenyo but he added some points and performance before his sKe. Final third of the season some strong possession play vs bottom 3rd sides. However a 4-3-3 and though some on here disagree with me I think Naismith slotted in well with Scott.

As such I believe Bird could have slotted in that way..

In addition NP was rather food with younger players for us, he gets an unfair rep.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, NcnsBcfc said:

The only thing that bugs me about this deal is that we're probably bunging 5k (or something like that) on top of his current Derby deal, for him to play for Derby for the rest of the season.

Fingers crossed he doesn't get injured. It's one thing getting injured in one of our games, another thing all together getting done playing for another side.

I get that like the Stokes deal, it was a pragmatic way of getting the deals over the line, it just feels wrong when we are so low on numbers now.

Could well be agreed that his wage is staggered to kick-in in full in July.

[Mr Popodopolous]

In respect of a potential fee, saw this on a Derby forum.

[Derby_Ram]

I think the calculation in that fee calculation was flawed as it used a flat compensation rate for each year between 12-21 and didn't consider the lower rate between 12-15. No ITK knowledge behind it but my guesstimate will be around £1.5m based on rationale laid out. Less than £1m and you've had our pants down, much more than £1.5m and I'll be delighted given circumstances.

Last time I posted on here I said he'd only go if he said he wouldn't sign a contract and we had a replacement we could bring in - didn't even occur to me Max himself could be the replacement until the end of the season in loan.

I get why we've agreed the transfer. One we don't have to worry about the tribunal and more importantly know what we can spend from the deal ahead of the summer.

I get why you've made the deal as you lock in an excellent Championship player who should fit Manning's style perfectly.

I just don't understand why Max would sign this deal now - even with no intention of signing an extension with us should we go up. Unless you made a financial offer which is so ridiculously high that he and his agent just didn't believe would be there from anyone in the summer - and that feels unlikely - it feels odd.

Nothing but best wishes for Max and he certainly has the ability to play in the Premier League; sadly we've not utilised him correctly the last two years with Warne's brand of anti-football.

[Davefevs]

5 hours ago, Derby_Ram said:

I think the calculation in that fee calculation was flawed as it used a flat compensation rate for each year between 12-21 and didn't consider the lower rate between 12-15. No ITK knowledge behind it but my guesstimate will be around £1.5m based on rationale laid out. Less than £1m and you've had our pants down, much more than £1.5m and I'll be delighted given circumstances.

Last time I posted on here I said he'd only go if he said he wouldn't sign a contract and we had a replacement we could bring in - didn't even occur to me Max himself could be the replacement until the end of the season in loan.

I get why we've agreed the transfer. One we don't have to worry about the tribunal and more importantly know what we can spend from the deal ahead of the summer.

I get why you've made the deal as you lock in an excellent Championship player who should fit Manning's style perfectly.

I just don't understand why Max would sign this deal now - even with no intention of signing an extension with us should we go up. Unless you made a financial offer which is so ridiculously high that he and his agent just didn't believe would be there from anyone in the summer - and that feels unlikely - it feels odd.

Nothing but best wishes for Max and he certainly has the ability to play in the Premier League; sadly we've not utilised him correctly the last two years with Warne's brand of anti-football.

Firstly, I think the person who originally posted - Ghost of Clough - is getting confused between EPPP, FIFA RSTP and FA PFCC compensation schemes.

Had Bird gone to Rangers or Celtic (or anywhere abroad)in the summer, Derby would get a fixed rate of €90k p.a for 4 years and €10k p.a for the earlier years….so circa €400k total.

EPPP compensation isn’t applicable as Bird is too old.

So he falls into the FA’s PFCC (professional footballers compensation committee) scheme.  There is no fixed formula.  But a number of things are taken into account.

 

3.1: going from Cat 1 to Cat 2

3.2: 23

3.3: EPPP

3.4: £0

3.5: a long time

3.6: unknown, but not astronomical

3.7: lots of club apps / no international

3.8: we can imagine quite a few had he became free

So, some things in Derby’s favour, some not.

Over the weekend I guesstimated somewhere between £0.5-£1.0m transfer fee, because of:

• the low FIFA RSTP compo of €400k referenced as a consideration by Derby in their announcement
• the fact we’d loaned him back to you.

I think you would’ve got circa £1.0m in compo had you rushed the PFCC, so I imagine fee we agreed to be towards the top end of my estimate.

Who knows whether there is any clever clauses like £x if you get promoted, £y if you don’t.

But I’m sure you’ve added in appearance clauses and a sell-on percentage too.  You get neither of them if he goes to Scotland / abroad.

Only my thoughts, might be wide of the mark.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/bristol-city-max-bird-derby-9082550

Nice article. Says Bird likes to carry yet good technically which is absolutely something we have missed since a certain someone departed..

Edited February 6 by Mr Popodopolous

[Natchfever]

6 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/bristol-city-max-bird-derby-9082550

Nice article. Says Bird likes to carry yet good technically which is absolutely something we have missed since a certain someone departed..

Missed a lot of this signing, was there competition for him?

[Mr Popodopolous]

28 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

Missed a lot of this signing, was there competition for him?

Hull were reportedly as we reportedly were, keen in the summer but he got injured and went nowhere. Birmingham were linked when Rooney was there albeit that could've been lazy journalism too.

I assume his availability came to light quite late in the window..his contract being up in the summer and perhaps a final chance to get a new one. He wasn't signing so last chance to get some money and it avoid a Tribunal.

I think it is a smart signing, provided we didn't pay silly money.

Had he become available on a free in the summer there would have been competition I am sure.

Edited February 6 by Mr Popodopolous

[Derby Boy]

10 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Hull were reportedly as we reportedly were, keen in the summer but he got injured and went nowhere. Birmingham were linked when Rooney was there albeit that could've been lazy journalism too.

I assume his availability came to light quite late in the window..his contract being up in the summer and perhaps a final chance to get a new one. He wasn't signing so last chance to get some money and it avoid a Tribunal.

I think it is a smart signing, provided we didn't pay silly money.

Had he become available on a free in the summer there would have been competition I am sure.

The talk was he wasn't going to sign a new contract for us and whilst we might have been prepared to risk a Tribunal there was a rumour Rangers were interested and a cross border move would have screwed us.

[Natchfever]

32 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Hull were reportedly as we reportedly were, keen in the summer but he got injured and went nowhere. Birmingham were linked when Rooney was there albeit that could've been lazy journalism too.

I assume his availability came to light quite late in the window..his contract being up in the summer and perhaps a final chance to get a new one. He wasn't signing so last chance to get some money and it avoid a Tribunal.

I think it is a smart signing, provided we didn't pay silly money.

Had he become available on a free in the summer there would have been competition I am sure.

Thanks Mr P.

Funny he didnt wait it out and see who else came calling.

Sounds like a promising signing.

Edited February 6 by Natchfever

[Davefevs]

30 minutes ago, Derby Boy said:

The talk was he wasn't going to sign a new contract for us and whilst we might have been prepared to risk a Tribunal there was a rumour Rangers were interested and a cross border move would have screwed us.

And that is exactly what I hope City used as bargaining power…$400k in the summer with no add-ons through the FIFA compo scheme or something more from us now, add-ons and a loan back.

If we don’t find out what the fee is via the rumour mill, we will get a good idea when this years accounts come out.

Edited February 6 by Davefevs

[Mr Popodopolous]

Any thinking @James54De fee prediction?

Seemed quite clear Derby were driving a hard bargain.