Atkinson and Sykes

[Son of Fred]

Am wondering how Naismith fared in today's game ?? -

Looking for something positive after the crap news on Rob...

[ExiledAjax]

33 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

There must be data for it somewhere, there's data for everything these days - let's call it xi, expected injuries. What's our xi compared to others?

The dataset required is huge and hard to obtain.

You need to know which types of injury occurred on which type of surface. You need to know if it was in match or in training. If training well what type of training was it? Specifically what was the player doing when the injury occurred. Cross reference injury type and player action and pitch surface and maybe you'll get somewhere.

Trouble is this isn't freely available information, clubs and medical teams are secretive about it for commercial reasons, professional reasons, and most importantly for the privacy of the players involved.

Then, if you did manage to get that data out of our club well to make a comparison you need a big enough sample size to draw sufficient conclusions from. You need data from many clubs, over many years, on order to draw a meaningful conclusion.

Every club would love to know which combination of pitch and training leads to the fewest injuries and if that isn't available then I expect it's because it's such a massive job with such difficulty in obtaining the required information.

[GrahamC]

42 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Have we opted for a pitch at Ashton Gate that doesn't need renewing every summer because we want to maximise concert revenues during those months?

If this extremely firm surface - replicated as it is at the training ground - is contributing towards our endless injuries, have we prioritised non-matchday revenue streams above player fitness?

Cart before horse, if so.

Although how our injury list compares to other clubs would be good to know.

There must be data for it somewhere, there's data for everything these days - let's call it xi, expected injuries. What's our xi compared to others?

My hunch would be just like the number of points we have, we’re slap bang in the middle with regard to our number of injuries.

I think we understandably focus on ourselves but as an example on Saturday for West Brom Daryl Dike suffered his 3rd major injury in only his 5th game in the last year & Kyle Bartley went off injured, too.

I remember seeing Leeds having 9 out injured & Millwall as well struggling with injuries. Cardiff too, O’Dowda out injured since August..

Our issue has been the policy of running with so few senior players which exacerbates this.

[Crimson Crayola]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

…was naive at best, and that’s being kind.

Shit happens in football.

+++++

Someone will confirm, I’m sure….but I believe he show pitch at the HPC is the same as the AG pitch.  And from what I’m led to believe, they are built on very hard foundations, to ensure they are robust for multi-sport over a long shelf life.

The cost of a pitch like this is more efficient than having to replace every summer over a comparable number of years.

(add in replacing the pitch every summer might affect being able to have concerns??? Debate / Discuss)

But I do think these pitches are a contributory factor.  Does reducing the cost of pitch maintenance each year give the best outcome to losing a star player over a period of weeks?

Its an interesting discussion!

Pitches like Blackburn the top comes away, but I wonder what their injury record is?

+++++

And yes I know Big Rob did his ACL away at Sunderland. 

Sorry for the conspiracy theory and I'm no sports therapist but could spending 80%+ time on 'the grass' where the grass is ill suited, have a cumulative impact on our players, making them more prone to strains, pulls and generally less robust?

[Buster Footman's T shirt]

1 hour ago, CityReds said:

So the HPC and Ashton gate pitches are Desso Hybrid pitches, the synthetic fibres are plugged into the soil which helps promote root growth and strengthen the root beds. They’re prepared in the same way a full grass pitch is and is used in most of the major pitches in the world. AG, St James Park, Nou Camp, Old Trafford, San Siro, PSG, Twickenham and Wembley to name a few. Every year the organic grass is removed and relayed but the fibres will last 6-8 years.

 

Not at Membley then?

[Simon bristol]

24 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

My hunch would be just like the number of points we have, we’re slap bang in the middle with regard to our number of injuries.

I think we understandably focus on ourselves but as an example on Saturday for West Brom Daryl Dike suffered his 3rd major injury in only his 5th game in the last year & Kyle Bartley went off injured, too.

I remember seeing Leeds having 9 out injured & Millwall as well struggling with injuries. Cardiff too, O’Dowda out injured since August..

Our issue has been the policy of running with so few senior players which exacerbates this.

Also, the number of games packed so closely together isnt giving enough time for recuperation, the cup replays, which have been particularly full on have  not helped, its a miracle the back 5 have remained available for selection for so long, clearly those players are particularly resistant to knocks, while some others struggle to stay fit

[Davefevs]

22 minutes ago, Crimson Crayola said:

Sorry for the conspiracy theory and I'm no sports therapist but could spending 80%+ time on 'the grass' where the grass is ill suited, have a cumulative impact on our players, making them more prone to strains, pulls and generally less robust?

Nor me!

As the Australian Olympic hockey player was asked - what’s the difference between grass and astroturf?

His reply - dunno, I’ve never smoked astroturf!

[downendcity]

1 hour ago, CityReds said:

So the HPC and Ashton gate pitches are Desso Hybrid pitches, the synthetic fibres are plugged into the soil which helps promote root growth and strengthen the root beds. They’re prepared in the same way a full grass pitch is and is used in most of the major pitches in the world. AG, St James Park, Nou Camp, Old Trafford, San Siro, PSG, Twickenham and Wembley to name a few. Every year the organic grass is removed and relayed but the fibres will last 6-8 years.

Perhaps we need to replace Rob's hamstrings with the fibres used in the pitch, as they will last longer!

[cidered abroad]

What was final u21 score?

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, cidered abroad said:

What was final u21 score?

2-1 to Cardiff

[steviestevieneville]

46 minutes ago, Crimson Crayola said:

Sorry for the conspiracy theory and I'm no sports therapist but could spending 80%+ time on 'the grass' where the grass is ill suited, have a cumulative impact on our players, making them more prone to strains, pulls and generally less robust?

The pitches are made for professional sport. How can it be ill suited ? 
our injuries are no worse than any other club . 
they’ve been blown out of proportion since the really bad season we had under Holden. That was a mixture of poor preparation from him/physio team & covid when we couldn’t  use the facilities properly due to the virus. 
Since then  we’ve had the training ground in full use our muscle injuries have reduced. They will never be eradicated at any club . 

[Henry]

51 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Nor me!

As the Australian Olympic hockey player was asked - what’s the difference between grass and astroturf?

His reply - dunno, I’ve never smoked astroturf!

Nah, Rodney Trotter said that first.

[Malago]

Both Ayman Benarous and big Rob have suffered repeated hamstring problems in their recover from ACL injuries.  Is this a coincidence? a common problem in the recovery from ACL? or is it a problem unique to BCFC?  These are the questions that need answering.

[Merrick's Marvels]

2 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

The dataset required is huge and hard to obtain.

You need to know which types of injury occurred on which type of surface. You need to know if it was in match or in training. If training well what type of training was it? Specifically what was the player doing when the injury occurred. Cross reference injury type and player action and pitch surface and maybe you'll get somewhere.

Trouble is this isn't freely available information, clubs and medical teams are secretive about it for commercial reasons, professional reasons, and most importantly for the privacy of the players involved.

Then, if you did manage to get that data out of our club well to make a comparison you need a big enough sample size to draw sufficient conclusions from. You need data from many clubs, over many years, on order to draw a meaningful conclusion.

Every club would love to know which combination of pitch and training leads to the fewest injuries and if that isn't available then I expect it's because it's such a massive job with such difficulty in obtaining the required information.

Thanks.

So something there's no real data for, by the sound of it.

HALLELUJAH!

Edited February 13 by Merrick's Marvels

[Merrick's Marvels]

2 hours ago, CityReds said:

So the HPC and Ashton gate pitches are Desso Hybrid pitches, the synthetic fibres are plugged into the soil which helps promote root growth and strengthen the root beds. They’re prepared in the same way a full grass pitch is and is used in most of the major pitches in the world. AG, St James Park, Nou Camp, Old Trafford, San Siro, PSG, Twickenham and Wembley to name a few. Every year the organic grass is removed and relayed but the fibres will last 6-8 years.

 

So, as per Fevs, couldn't be further from the truth then.

2 hours ago, CityReds said:

Couldn’t be further from the truth in reality

I'm asking a question but thanks.

Edited February 13 by Merrick's Marvels

[spudski]

If you Google ' are there more injuries on desso pitches ( and similar) compared to grass', there are plenty of articles talking about the increase in injuries on ' artificial ' turf compared to just plain grass. 

Especially hamstring ( more hamstring torn from bone ) and knee ( ACL ).

Worth googling. 

[Merrick's Marvels]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Our xi is 11

Very good.

[Merrick's Marvels]

2 hours ago, GrahamC said:

My hunch would be just like the number of points we have, we’re slap bang in the middle with regard to our number of injuries.

I think we understandably focus on ourselves but as an example on Saturday for West Brom Daryl Dike suffered his 3rd major injury in only his 5th game in the last year & Kyle Bartley went off injured, too.

I remember seeing Leeds having 9 out injured & Millwall as well struggling with injuries. Cardiff too, O’Dowda out injured since August..

Our issue has been the policy of running with so few senior players which exacerbates this.

Yes you're probably right.

Saw the story about Dike today - certainly opens the door for Weimann. He might just make himself a hero up there if WBA go up. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Malago said:

Both Ayman Benarous and big Rob have suffered repeated hamstring problems in their recover from ACL injuries.  Is this a coincidence? a common problem in the recovery from ACL? or is it a problem unique to BCFC?  These are the questions that need answering.

Yes, where the hamstring is used as the replacement ACL. 

1 hour ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Very good.

I try!

[CityReds]

21 hours ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

So, as per Fevs, couldn't be further from the truth then.

I'm asking a question but thanks.

Touché

Although the synthetic/ real grass percentage is still the same 5/95 as Desso the difference comes in how it’s laid and will still require fresh grass every summer.

I think you mixed both questions and statements in your post “if this extremely hard surface” is a statement and compared to fully synthetic pitches, it most certainly isn’t. But my initial facts were incorrect so I’ll happily take that on the chin 

[!james]

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/liam-manning-bristol-city-injury-9103334

Hamstring tear, out for rest of the season. 

[Lew-T]

2 minutes ago, !james said:

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/liam-manning-bristol-city-injury-9103334

Hamstring tear, out for rest of the season. 

Couldn’t help but notice Mannings comments on Naismith…

“Kal’s just a bit stiff off the back of the other day so we need to assess him in the morning” 
 

Stiff? You’ve got the best facilities, best people around you, nutrition, pitches etc. Come on seriously… they’ve got it so easy.

Sorry I’ve had a bad day…

[petehinton]

12 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

Couldn’t help but notice Mannings comments on Naismith…

“Kal’s just a bit stiff off the back of the other day so we need to assess him in the morning” 
 

Stiff? You’ve got the best facilities, best people around you, nutrition, pitches etc. Come on seriously… they’ve got it so easy.

Sorry I’ve had a bad day…

That’s manager/HC talk for “he’s picked up another niggle/injury but we can’t say it”

[James54De]

32 minutes ago, petehinton said:

That’s manager/HC talk for “he’s picked up another niggle/injury but we can’t say it”

No, I don’t think it is. He’s probably just a bit stiff. First 45 minutes since November, for a 30+ year old. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

37 minutes ago, petehinton said:

That’s manager/HC talk for “he’s picked up another niggle/injury but we can’t say it”

Yep, that Rennie I shall boo..

Oh wait what.

[Robbored]

1 hour ago, petehinton said:

That’s manager/HC talk for “he’s picked up another niggle/injury but we can’t say it”

He hasn’t played for quite awhile and using largely underused muscles often react by stiffening up - anyone who’s walked any unfamiliar distance will know what that’s like - usually the next day.

[Lew-T]

53 minutes ago, James54De said:

No, I don’t think it is. He’s probably just a bit stiff. First 45 minutes since November, for a 30+ year old. 

You make it sound as if he’s in a retirement home. He should be in the best shape of his life at 30!

Especially these days when fitness/gym is massive.

[George Rs]

On 13/02/2024 at 18:24, Malago said:

Both Ayman Benarous and big Rob have suffered repeated hamstring problems in their recover from ACL injuries.  Is this a coincidence? a common problem in the recovery from ACL? or is it a problem unique to BCFC?  These are the questions that need answering.

In a lot of surgery’s to fix key ligaments in the leg (ACL, MPFL etc) the surgery takes part of the hamstring tendon to make a graft to reconstruct the ligament. ( I’ve had one myself ) 

This process will tend to temporarily weaken the hamstring itself post surgery. About 1/8 patients suffer at least a mild hamstring strain after an ACL repair. That’s just with your regular patient as well id assume that number would be higher with athletes as they evidently have to put more strain on the legs then most. 

Is it common problem post ACLR? To a degree 

Is it a coincidence that it happened to both Ayman and Rob? Most likely 

Is it specific to BCFC? No 

Is it just Bristol City rotten luck striking again? Oh of course 

[petehinton]

17 minutes ago, George Rs said:

In a lot of surgery’s to fix key ligaments in the leg (ACL, MPFL etc) the surgery takes part of the hamstring tendon to make a graft to reconstruct the ligament. ( I’ve had one myself ) 

This process will tend to temporarily weaken the hamstring itself post surgery. About 1/8 patients suffer at least a mild hamstring strain after an ACL repair. That’s just with your regular patient as well id assume that number would be higher with athletes as they evidently have to put more strain on the legs then most. 

Is it common problem post ACLR? To a degree 

Is it a coincidence that it happened to both Ayman and Rob? Most likely 

Is it specific to BCFC? No 

Is it just Bristol City rotten luck striking again? Oh of course 

Believe someone said the hamstring he’s torn isn’t the one they took muscle from to reform the acl. So it’s unrelated. 

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Believe someone said the hamstring he’s torn isn’t the one they took muscle from to reform the acl. So it’s unrelated. 

Non-medical logic - over-compensation on the other leg???

Slightly different with my ACL.  I’m sure before I did mine, I never worried about which leg I landed on, but afterwards, I always tried to land on the other…and I knackered the cartilage in the other.

Edited February 15 by Davefevs