Credit where it is due

[W-S-M Seagull]

32 minutes ago, pillred said:

The last 20 is pushing it, 10 I will give you.

There was 8 mins added on. Ipswich were by far the better team from about the 79th min onwards. 

[Roe]

32 minutes ago, pillred said:

The last 20 is pushing it, 10 I will give you.

Including the 8+ minutes of injury times when Max had more of the ball than all our attackers combined?

[Numero Uno]

1 hour ago, red panda said:

Some of the posts on here are embarrassing.  No Ipswich are not Man City or Real Madrid, but they are second, have comfortably more than 2ppg, and were in good form (having won their last five) with lots of confidence.  From where we started - three really depressing and disjointed performances - a competitive performance away to Ipswich is progress.

So what is progress on Sunday? Surely there comes a point when he has to deliver a group of decent results in a row, not two followed by three dismal and one battling defeat?

[TonyTonyTony]

36 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

What is there to be positive about Tonyx3? We are on a run of 23 points from 21 games and have lost 4 in a row.

If you care to look back at my posts from last season you'll see I was positive about performances in games that we lost. 

I'm calling a duck a duck. 

For me, I expected us to put in a better performance against Ipswich because its the same sort of game as Southampton, West Ham, Forest etc. Games that suit us. So we were only better by default really and in the end we were totally outclassed by Ipswich so in some respects you can say we've gone backwards. 

What can we take from last night that will be relevant to the Swansea game? 

Last night's performance has taken us backwards?  

There was plenty of endeavour on display last night, something that has been missing in recent games. If we can take that to the Swansea game we have a reasonable chance of getting a result. I do agree with you that Ipswich away, is in the same bracket as the games against Southampton, Forest and West Ham, but that doesn't mean the performance last night was in some way guaranteed. The lads put a shift in, against a good side, and could have won, or drawn the game. Ultimately, it's another loss but i can still see the positives from last night.

[AshtonGreat]

2 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

I’m not sure why a number of people are talking up last night’s DEFEAT in isolation as if it’s a turning point when, for the last ten and a half weeks, our record is shockingly bad. It’s marooned at the bottom of the table by miles form. 35-36 points per season form.

It's not shockingly bad. We drew with and then beat Premier League West Ham, drew with Premier League Forest twice, beat high-flying Southampton, won away at Boro, drew away at Coventry...

[winsaw]

I am amazed at the amount of happy clappers in this thread happy with last night's result because we turned up and gave it a go,  it really does show what's wrong with the club as long as players are being congratulated for failing we are never going anywhere, we lost so what they did wasn't good enough, we really have become a cosy club that accepts failure 

[TV Tom]

2 hours ago, bearded_red said:

We were always going to be better against a team like Ipswich than we’ve been in the last three games. Surely everyone knew that? Surely everyone who watches us play knew that? 
 

It’s a nonsense to suggest ‘oh if only we’d played like that in the last three games’. We can’t play like that because the opposition let us have the ball. And when the opposition let us have the ball we play crap football at walking pace 70 yards away from the opposition’s goal.

This utterly small time reaction that we should be somehow over the moon with last night is stunning. This wasn’t a plucky non league team getting beat at Man City or Liverpool in the third round. 

We were fine for 70 minutes, we could have got something out the game. We didn’t, we lost, and let’s be honest it could just as easily have been a couple more in the last few minutes. It’s four defeats on the bounce, it’s 9 points in 13.

Celebrating because we weren’t atrocious and didn’t get thrashed at Ipswich. Was this the aim when we sacked Nigel Pearson?

I doubt if anyone is celebrating in fact I expect the majority is gutted we lost but most of us recognise a good performance when we see one

[TV Tom]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

There was 8 mins added on. Ipswich were by far the better team from about the 79th min onwards. 

That makes a whole 19 minutes then out of 100, for the rest of the game we were better or at least their equal, you must be a right laugh at a party

[PFree]

I posted positively as I thought all of the players at least put a shift in last night and gave it their all. Okay they lost but in reality they gave a top side a good game. I have no doubt that another performance like that on Sunday will result in point/s.

I’ve been a ST holder for other 30 years and seen some terrible times, far worse than this. I hoped we had turned a corner after the Southampton game but clearly not.

The route cause of where we are is poor senior management of the club over several years and a lack of investment in the team, we have reduced overall wages but at the cost of quality I am afraid (I appreciate FFP played a part).

I will forever appreciate Steve L for steadying the club financially, creating a great training facility and providing us with a Premier ready stadium, but his sell by date was two or three years ago - my fear is the tangled mess this club is legally which will put so many investors off - but there we go, I sincerely hope some form of buy out news arises one day soon and we get the required investment into the playing staff to take us that bit further.

For Manning, happy to give him a chance, but the more I see and hear puts me off him sadly, all I can hear is LJ type tech speak and taking no responsibility.

 

[Numero Uno]

44 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

It's not shockingly bad. We drew with and then beat Premier League West Ham, drew with Premier League Forest twice, beat high-flying Southampton, won away at Boro, drew away at Coventry...

What are you talking about? You cannot laud performances in cup games and individual performances in league games when you have picked up NINE points out of THIRTY SIX since we convincingly won a game near the end of LAST YEAR. That is a shocking run end of story. If Manning crashes and burns a bit more and we are playing the Few next season who will give the smallest **** about the games you list?

[cidered abroad]

Last evening, my wife came into room where I was listening to RB.

What's the score? 2-1 to City.

She replied that they'll probably lose 3-2! And I thought you've got it right!

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, TV Tom said:

Come on people, irrespective of people’s opinion on Manning/NP no one can deny that was a very good performance last night, as a rule when playing away against a top two club we barely raise a glove

I can categorically, hand on heart say that was not a very good performance last night.  Not even for 77 minutes.

It was a game where we worked hard and contained Ipswich, but first half we were error strewn in passing, control and running into dead-ends.  There was the odd flash - Cornick cross to Wells, Wells and co pressing to create a chance for Knight.  But that was it.

Second half we forced them into a few more errors and win some territory and played a bit better.

We took the lead, nice goal, we looked on top (great), then the subs.  We went back ahead probably against the run of play…and then we went to pieces.

So, that’s not my definition of very good.  In places it reached 7/10, but for large parts it was 5/10-6/10.

We need to stop thinking gutsy / containing = good.

Happy if you disagree TT.

[ZumerZetSmithy]

this game felt different for me as well as i sat on my sofa listening to the radio i got asked who has died 

[TV Tom]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I can categorically, hand on heart say that was not a very good performance last night.  Not even for 77 minutes.

It was a game where we worked hard and contained Ipswich, but first half we were error strewn in passing, control and running into dead-ends.  There was the odd flash - Cornick cross to Wells, Wells and co pressing to create a chance for Knight.  But that was it.

Second half we forced them into a few more errors and win some territory and played a bit better.

We took the lead, nice goal, we looked on top (great), then the subs.  We went back ahead probably against the run of play…and then we went to pieces.

So, that’s not my definition of very good.  In places it reached 7/10, but for large parts it was 5/10-6/10.

We need to stop thinking gutsy / containing = good.

Happy if you disagree TT.

Yet you think we played well at Cardiff !!! They are in second place mind Dave and unbeaten at home for six months, if you don't rate last night's performance I dread to think what you think of some of the rubbish we've had to put up with over the last five years

[Numero Uno]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I can categorically, hand on heart say that was not a very good performance last night.  Not even for 77 minutes.

It was a game where we worked hard and contained Ipswich, but first half we were error strewn in passing, control and running into dead-ends.  There was the odd flash - Cornick cross to Wells, Wells and co pressing to create a chance for Knight.  But that was it.

Second half we forced them into a few more errors and win some territory and played a bit better.

We took the lead, nice goal, we looked on top (great), then the subs.  We went back ahead probably against the run of play…and then we went to pieces.

So, that’s not my definition of very good.  In places it reached 7/10, but for large parts it was 5/10-6/10.

We need to stop thinking gutsy / containing = good.

Happy if you disagree TT.

What’s happening is even the Anti-Nige Society are starting to see what is happening (how could you not see it?), realising how outspoken their previous position has been at times in relation to how events have transpired and some of the excuses and comments you are starting to see are comical and verging on desperation and very intense straw clutching.

Nobody was blaming Nige two weeks ago when we were 15 clear, now it’s only 6 clear Liam had suddenly inherited a mess. I would suggest this has started to go wrong since Boxing Day, before that Liam’s start was ok. Nige hasn’t been in charge or had a window since it’s all started going pear shaped.

[Sheltons Army]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

What’s happening is even the Anti-Nige Society are starting to see what is happening (how could you not see it?), realising how outspoken their previous position has been at times in relation to how events have transpired and some of the excuses and comments you are starting to see are comical and verging on desperation and very intense straw clutching.

Nobody was blaming Nige two weeks ago when we were 15 clear, now it’s only 6 clear Liam had suddenly inherited a mess. I would suggest this has started to go wrong since Boxing Day, before that Liam’s start was ok. Nige hasn’t been in charge or had a window since it’s all started going pear shaped.

Almost as if NPs legacy has drifted and LMs influence taken over  eh Numero

 

And as for the ones screaming for this , and outing NP

Many have lost their internet connection and others are simply doubling down 

Edited March 6 by Sheltons Army

[TheJudge07]

I don't really understand why we are applauding a defeat because the players put in a shift?? That is the minimum requirement every game we play. This is a 4th successive defeat and a record since Nigel left that has us 23rd - its relegation form. It is not acceptable. 7 wins in 25 and 10 defeats is nowhere near good enough. This is a results business and sadly he is not getting results. The Board dug out Nigel publicly for this. This is much worse.  He can only play one way and he is completely out of his depth. That is not surprising given this is his first stint in the Championship. That is the sad reality and we have seen it all before with this owner and the people in charge. They have no idea as to what is required to get to the top.    The players he has cannot play tippy tappy football and he needs results fast. I genuinely dont think he can get a tune out of them and those results he has attained appear to be one offs.   The team are not able to play that penetrating pass that opens up teams and this passing around the back and side to side is pointless. They dont retain the ball with purpose and probe defences, simply because we dont have that level of player. We dont really control the game through possession and that is the flaw of Manning and the modern coaches. They are trying to copy Guardiola, forgetting he has had 1 billion to do it. Personally, I think this is going to get worse before it gets better and if we dont win against Swansea, I am not sure where the next points are coming from.  We still need 10 points to be safe and I think we are sleep walking our way to relegation. There is always one team that drops like a stone and it could be us.....   I would be minded to terminate this disastrous appointment. Michael Duff was a bit unlucky at Swansea - he might fit us quite well given his style of play. 

 

Edited March 6 by TheJudge07

[Numero Uno]

9 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Almost as if NPs legacy has drifted and LMs influence taken over  eh Numero

 

And as for the ones screaming for this , and outing NP

Many have lost their internet connection and others are simply doubling down 

Exactly. I was totally against firing Manning regardless of how Nige had been treated...............until we played QPR at home when it became very clear to me that the managers of clubs who NEED to tactically out-think him (i.e. managers of clubs fighting for their lives) are finding it an absolute doddle to do so and he's learning nothing to counteract it. Then he went and followed it up immediately TWICE MORE just to prove that I wasn't completely losing it. People moan about no Plan B but Plan A is a shower of shite totally unsuited to the players available and has shown no signs of being modified or improved. Literally the only times we play well is when we adopt "Plan Nige" and counter attack. It's absolutely comical in it's irony.

I understand my own arguments I've put forward previously about the circus picking the next manager and until that changes then nothing changes, and that is a massive worry for me, BUT I am convinced that if the current manager remains along with Sid heading recruitment then next season will be a relegation battle from either start to finish or start to such times as Liam's replacement can get us out of the mire if they aren't appointed too late. I can only speak for myself but it's staring me right in the face unfortunately.

The NEXT point to be put forward on the horizon if and probably when Manning reaches a point of no return will be "obviously they were 100% correct to boot out Nige but picked the wrong man to replace him". Guaranteed!!

If anyone wishes to put a marker on and quote the above when Liam emphatically proves me wrong please be my guest and I would be absolutely delighted for you to do so. If he doesn't prove me wrong by Christmas then the undeniable truth will be that the hierarchy and the impatient "Nige Out Fan Club" have combined to undo the necessary work in reducing FFFP risk and keeping us at Championship level by Nige, Richard Gould, Curtis Fleming, Phil Alexander, Jason Euell et al by a good 18 months. Worse, if it really goes wrong, we'll be back exactly where we started and next time there will almost inevitably be no repeat fix. If that happens, there will be plenty to remind you.

[Superjack]

2 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Exactly. I was totally against firing Manning regardless of how Nige had been treated...............until we played QPR at home when it became very clear to me that the managers of clubs who NEED to tactically out-think him (i.e. managers of clubs fighting for their lives) are finding it an absolute doddle to do so and he's learning nothing to counteract it. Then he went and followed it up immediately TWICE MORE just to prove that I wasn't completely losing it. People moan about no Plan B but Plan A is a shower of shite totally unsuited to the players available and has shown no signs of being modified or improved. Literally the only times we play well is when we adopt "Plan Nige" and counter attack. It's absolutely comical in it's irony.

I understand my own arguments I've put forward previously about the circus picking the next manager and until that changes then nothing changes, and that is a massive worry for me, BUT I am convinced that if the current manager remains along with Sid heading recruitment then next season will be a relegation battle from either start to finish or start to such times as Liam's replacement can get us out of the mire if they aren't appointed too late. I can only speak for myself but it's staring me right in the face unfortunately.

The NEXT point to be put forward on the horizon if and probably when Manning reaches a point of no return will be "obviously they were 100% correct to boot out Nige but picked the wrong man to replace him". Guaranteed!!

If anyone wishes to put a marker on and quote the above when Liam emphatically proves me wrong please be my guest and I would be absolutely delighted for you to do so. If he doesn't prove me wrong by Christmas then the undeniable truth will be that the hierarchy and the impatient "Nige Out Fan Club" have combined to undo the necessary work in reducing FFFP risk and keeping us at Championship level by Nige, Richard Gould, Curtis Fleming, Phil Alexander, Jason Euell et al by a good 18 months. Worse, if it really goes wrong, we'll be back exactly where we started and next time there will almost inevitably be no repeat fix. If that happens, there will be plenty to remind you.

[Lordofthebling]

7 hours ago, Keepers Ball said:

Sorry fella but its that very attitude as to why this is City is absolutely backward when it comes to success. Size of the bloody place yet we have this apathetic mindset of it will do. 

Not really, my opinion echoes yours on the whole.

But the fact that we've been beaten by 3 teams below us, to then go toe to toe with a league leader, was a better performance.

It wasn't my own reflection of where the club is, where the city is, the strategy of the suits, my frustration level as another 'smaller' club gets success, just that one night as a reflection.

If we had of won 2 of the last three then lost to Ipswich, we would've taken that on the chin.

But I get what you're saying! 

[Isawjonshaw]

18 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

This is what we’re reduced to now. We’ve lost our fourth game in a row to a club who’ve just spent four years in League One, but it’s OK because “we gave it a go”. So what if it felt different. It felt different against Southampton and we’ve lost every game since then. I have zero faith in Manning now, and even less faith in the people that put him there.

Meanwhile Ipswich join the long list of clubs that emerge from the depths of lower league football and pass us on the way up.

Sick of this club.

post of the day/week/month.......

[Northern Red]

I don't suppose anyone could provide an example of a post on this thread which is "celebrating" or "happy with the result"?

 

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, TV Tom said:

Yet you think we played well at Cardiff !!! They are in second place mind Dave and unbeaten at home for six months, if you don't rate last night's performance I dread to think what you think of some of the rubbish we've had to put up with over the last five years

No.  Where did you get that impression from?  I’m hardly gonna go “sack manning” on Saturday evening if I felt there was hope from the Cardiff game.

++++

Oh, sorry, you mean Cardiff (a).  Talk about apples and pears.

++++

If you sack Nige and all his staff on Cardiff (a), then I dread to think what Manning deserved on Saturday evening!

[TV Tom]

19 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

No.  Where did you get that impression from?  I’m hardly gonna go “sack manning” on Saturday evening if I felt there was hope from the Cardiff game.

++++

Oh, sorry, you mean Cardiff (a).  Talk about apples and pears.

++++

If you sack Nige and all his staff on Cardiff (a), then I dread to think what Manning deserved on Saturday evening!

Sorry Dave should of been clearer, I did mean Cardiff away, I seem to remember one of your posts saying we played well there, just out of interest do you think we played better last night than we did at Leeds and Leicester?

[Davefevs]

Just now, TV Tom said:

Sorry Dave should of been clearer, I did mean Cardiff away, I seem to remember one of your posts saying we played well there, just out of interest do you think we played better last night than we did at Leeds and Leicester?

Cardiff (a) we did well with what we had, slightly better side first half, but conceded a set-piece goal.  Second-half we’d put them under a lot of pressure, camped in their half, Weimann missing a good chance.  And then subs (lack of them in our case) killed off a fight back.

Leicester (a) and Leeds (a)?

Leicester outclassed us for 70 mins, went 1-0 up, and then we gave it a good go.  I could see how you’d say we were better last night.

Leeds (a) really compatible opening 45, Leeds battered us for chunks of second half.  I could see how you’d say we were better last night.

But I think you’re suggesting that I thought we were crap last night.  I didn’t suggest that.  But I also don’t think it was great either.  A 6/10.

I might argue Leeds and Leicester were 5.5/10….so yes we were better last night.

But that’s not the point.  Many are suggesting it was really good last night.  Fine.  It wasn’t for me, and as you’ll see from above I’m pretty balanced / fair in my assessment.  Doesn’t mean I’m right….but I have no agendas either. I could easily have just t replied to you and said “yes I think we were better”, but I feel many are over egging last night.

But the main point is that last night gave me no different feeling that Manning is worth retaining, based on 24/25 games, so I’d sack now.  I see no point in allowing us to regress further.  We might get odd results here and there, we will likely stay up…but I just think it’s delaying the inevitable.  That’s rare for me to feel that strongly.  And I think it’s on “him” where the regression stems.

[WeAreThePigs]

12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Cardiff (a) we did well with what we had, slightly better side first half, but conceded a set-piece goal.  Second-half we’d put them under a lot of pressure, camped in their half, Weimann missing a good chance.  And then subs (lack of them in our case) killed off a fight back.

Leicester (a) and Leeds (a)?

Leicester outclassed us for 70 mins, went 1-0 up, and then we gave it a good go.  I could see how you’d say we were better last night.

Leeds (a) really compatible opening 45, Leeds battered us for chunks of second half.  I could see how you’d say we were better last night.

But I think you’re suggesting that I thought we were crap last night.  I didn’t suggest that.  But I also don’t think it was great either.  A 6/10.

I might argue Leeds and Leicester were 5.5/10….so yes we were better last night.

But that’s not the point.  Many are suggesting it was really good last night.  Fine.  It wasn’t for me, and as you’ll see from above I’m pretty balanced / fair in my assessment.  Doesn’t mean I’m right….but I have no agendas either. I could easily have just t replied to you and said “yes I think we were better”, but I feel many are over egging last night.

But the main point is that last night gave me no different feeling that Manning is worth retaining, based on 24/25 games, so I’d sack now.  I see no point in allowing us to regress further.  We might get odd results here and there, we will likely stay up…but I just think it’s delaying the inevitable.  That’s rare for me to feel that strongly.  And I think it’s on “him” where the regression stems.

I thought it was very good last night. However, his inability to change things is a massive concern for me. We could see that Pring was onto a hiding yet he did nothing, very concerning. 

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, WeAreThePigs said:

I thought it was very good last night. However, his inability to change things is a massive concern for me. We could see that Pring was onto a hiding yet he did nothing, very concerning. 

But that’s the point…are people judging him on the whole game, or just the bits that suit?

Manning talked about only having one game (Leeds) where they hadn’t hit his levels (until recent games), yet probably had only had two 90-minute performances (Watford away / Saints home) - that doesn’t really match-up does it.  And I don’t set my bar at 90-minute dominance either.

[Son of Fred]

2 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

Exactly. I was totally against firing Manning regardless of how Nige had been treated...............until we played QPR at home when it became very clear to me that the managers of clubs who NEED to tactically out-think him (i.e. managers of clubs fighting for their lives) are finding it an absolute doddle to do so and he's learning nothing to counteract it. Then he went and followed it up immediately TWICE MORE just to prove that I wasn't completely losing it. People moan about no Plan B but Plan A is a shower of shite totally unsuited to the players available and has shown no signs of being modified or improved. Literally the only times we play well is when we adopt "Plan Nige" and counter attack. It's absolutely comical in it's irony.

I understand my own arguments I've put forward previously about the circus picking the next manager and until that changes then nothing changes, and that is a massive worry for me, BUT I am convinced that if the current manager remains along with Sid heading recruitment then next season will be a relegation battle from either start to finish or start to such times as Liam's replacement can get us out of the mire if they aren't appointed too late. I can only speak for myself but it's staring me right in the face unfortunately.

The NEXT point to be put forward on the horizon if and probably when Manning reaches a point of no return will be "obviously they were 100% correct to boot out Nige but picked the wrong man to replace him". Guaranteed!!

If anyone wishes to put a marker on and quote the above when Liam emphatically proves me wrong please be my guest and I would be absolutely delighted for you to do so. If he doesn't prove me wrong by Christmas then the undeniable truth will be that the hierarchy and the impatient "Nige Out Fan Club" have combined to undo the necessary work in reducing FFFP risk and keeping us at Championship level by Nige, Richard Gould, Curtis Fleming, Phil Alexander, Jason Euell et al by a good 18 months. Worse, if it really goes wrong, we'll be back exactly where we started and next time there will almost inevitably be no repeat fix. If that happens, there will be plenty to remind you.

Bang on the money

[Superjack]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

But that’s the point…are people judging him on the whole game, or just the bits that suit?

Manning talked about only having one game (Leeds) where they hadn’t hit his levels (until recent games), yet probably had only had two 90-minute performances (Watford away / Saints home) - that doesn’t really match-up does it.  And I don’t set my bar at 90-minute dominance either.

Well.

Given his results record, that isn't at all concerning, is it?

[WeAreThePigs]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

But that’s the point…are people judging him on the whole game, or just the bits that suit?

Manning talked about only having one game (Leeds) where they hadn’t hit his levels (until recent games), yet probably had only had two 90-minute performances (Watford away / Saints home) - that doesn’t really match-up does it.  And I don’t set my bar at 90-minute dominance either.

I don’t think it’s as simple as that, I think he set us up well and we were the better team for 70 minutes, but his in game management is horrendous, non existent so pros and cons. I was excited when he joined and I was impressed and I saw what he was trying to do…..but

- we aren’t seeing progress, it’s a still a case of looking decent in spells without turning it into results 

- complete lack of ability to change things, I can’t understand it!!! 
 
I remember v leeds we were getting battered it was only a matter of time, I thought he would change it after 30 minutes and he didn’t, couldn’t believe it he just watched on seeeing us getting over run time and time again. 

I think he has something, I like the press and what he is trying but too many mistakes and limitations for my liking.