It’s simple. Manning out.

[AshtonGreat]

6 minutes ago, TomThumb84 said:

Manning is not capable of sorting what Nigel Pearson did.

Pearson changed a culture which is massively different to coaching a set of players. We have lost that.

By the way, the same set of players that ran through walls for Nigel Pearson are now bickering and drifting around like strangers. No amount of time “on the grass” working on “distances” and “patterns of play” will change that.

How?

[TomThumb84]

Just now, AshtonGreat said:

How?

Really?

Is this a test or have you been around this club for a bit?

[Fontaineofallknowledge]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Far from naive.  If you can’t see improvement in half a season, in a world where on average a Championship,Sanger does even get one year on average, you’ e tame the wrong approach.

Nige improved underlying “stuff” from about game 3 onwards, when he had enough points to start planning for the next 3 years of his contract.  He sidelined the cosy club, experimented with youngsters, brought in his culture setters and gradually improved us.  Slow progress, yep.  I never felt we were going backwards under Nige.  Maybe he was just ever so convincing.

This is as epic a regression as Rooney at Brum.

Its onky my view, but I see him taking us further backwards.

I still think the manager can carry the rest of the shit show.

Come on Rooney didn't get any good results-manning has had loads! The only similarity with Rooney is that the fans didnt give him a chance because they don't want the previous manager sacked!

Edited March 16 by Fontaineofallknowledge

[AshtonGreat]

2 minutes ago, TomThumb84 said:

Really?

Is this a test or have you been around this club for a bit?

No, I've heard this said before but don't actually know what it means

[The Coach]

2 minutes ago, Fontaineofallknowledge said:

Come on Rooney didn't get any good results-manning has had loads! The only similarity with Rooney is that the fans didnt give him a chance because they don't want the previous manager sacked!

[Sir Geoff]

2 minutes ago, Fontaineofallknowledge said:

Come on Rooney didn't get any good results-manning has had loads! The only similarity with Rooney is that the fans didnt give him a chance because they don't want the previous manager sacked!

Loads is a bit ott. 4, may be. Watford, West Ham x2 and a team on the  south coast.

The others have been dull run of the mill Championship wins, and there haven't been many of them.

[Kid in the Riot]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I still think the manager can carry the rest of the shit show.

No, not in the modern game with how club's are set up now.

Nige couldn't do it and there aren't many old school "manager" types like him around, in any case.

Tinnion won't be appointing that type anyway. It'll be another young un that they can exercise control over. One that will be used to working in a professional environment, not "owner's son & friends" amateur hour. 

[TomThumb84]

Just now, AshtonGreat said:

No, I've heard this said before but don't actually know what it means

I might need longer to explain it than I have this evening.

I will get back to you.

It starts with things being done very poorly by clueless people who do not achieve much, and then goes to things being done with integrity and honesty, the hard way, and with purpose despite all around him, and then goes back to the start again. 
 

Thats the short version.
 

 

[CodeRed]

1 hour ago, Laner said:

I'm beginning to think we only gave him the job because he looks a bit like Eddie Howe.

That probably was a factor  - SL said to Jon "you need to appoint a manager like Eddie Howe" and Jon took it literally 

[AshtonGreat]

1 minute ago, TomThumb84 said:

I might need longer to explain it than I have this evening.

I will get back to you.

It starts with things being done very poorly by clueless people who do not achieve much, and then goes to things being done with integrity and honesty, the hard way, and with purpose despite all around him, and then goes back to the start again. 
 

Thats the short version.
 

 

OK thanks

[TomThumb84]

Just now, AshtonGreat said:

OK thanks

Very welcome.

Hope that helped a bit even though I feel slightly patronised.

Have a great weekend.

[AshtonGreat]

1 minute ago, TomThumb84 said:

Very welcome.

Hope that helped a bit even though I feel slightly patronised.

Have a great weekend.

I didn't mean it to sound patronising. Sorry if it came across like that

[steviestevieneville]

1 hour ago, mason said:

Hands up those who think he will get it right next time, joker will prob put tinman in charge if he did dump Manning, which he wont.

Might be a flippant comment but I can see it happening . Manning sacked with say 4 games left . 
brian will take over until the end of the season while we take time to get the next appointment right. 
week before the season starts. Brian tinnion confirmed as permanent Bristol City boss. It’s a really crap joke but I can see it happening .

a beaming Steve Lansdown said . I always knew Brian would come good & I took some flack for the trust me on tinnion statement but he’s the right man for the job. now a short statement from Brian .

I is gert mint I is & I deserves it . Southampton in it 

 
 

[redsquirrel]

1 hour ago, Laner said:

I'm beginning to think we only gave him the job because he looks a bit like Eddie Howe.

well to be fair,its his only likeness to a real football coach that ive seen so far

[TomThumb84]

1 minute ago, AshtonGreat said:

I didn't mean it to sound patronising. Sorry if it came across like that

No issues. All City aren’t we.

[steviestevieneville]

15 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

How?

Seriously ? Are you that blinkered Steve 

[Atyeo's lift]

The commentator on WBA broadcast hit the nail on the head when he said (more than once) City don't seem to have a plan at all. So sad that someone seeing us for the first time can see what our management can't or won't.

[AshtonGreat]

1 minute ago, TomThumb84 said:

No issues. All City aren’t we.

Definitely

[Andy082005]

2 hours ago, CyderInACan said:

No polls. No hoping for the best.  
 

He’s either hopelessly out of his depth or he’s just not cut out to be a football manager at this level. 

He won’t see out the season 

2 hours ago, CyderInACan said:

No polls. No hoping for the best.  
 

He’s either hopelessly out of his depth or he’s just not cut out to be a football manager at this level. 

He won’t see out the season 

[redsquirrel]

8 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

That probably was a factor  - SL said to Jon "you need to appoint a manager like Eddie Howe" and Jon took it literally 

or he did it to the best of his ability. as for tins taking over, im more worried about mickey bell having a crack in mannings role at some point, we know hes half in already just for being an ex player, i dont think tins would risk having to sack himself if he was shit again

[Silvio Dante]

38 minutes ago, Fontaineofallknowledge said:

He's not though has he? Given the programme of games we are either recovering from the last game or preparing for the next one. 
 

Yes we have players that treat the ball like a hot potato-the only player in midfield that can handle the ball is James and he's out. Manning needs players to suit his style-then we will get control.

no I mean players being compact with the correct distances between them to close space-most managers have commended us on this. A good example was the first half vs Ipswich.

Your last sentence explains the problem in a nutshell-the fans were against this appointment from the start so are not giving him a fair crack imo

There is a similar take on Twitter from renowned bonehead Tony Wilkins.

And I will go back to the point that for a coach to have players who all suit his style is a utopia position that doesn’t arise at anything other than the richest a clubs or when a coach has been at a club for 5 plus years. So good coaches, coaches with a modicum of ability, tweak their approach to the strengths of what they do have as opposed to following a dogma. And it could be argued that Nigel Pearson did that. But Liam Manning certainly hasn’t. And it’ll take more than one window to get players in that can meet his style as you appear to be suggesting only one can - and by common consensus he’s being got rid of in the summer.

The alternate is, as this moronic exchange displays is that 12 players aren’t up to the championship. And if that were the case, we’d be relegated already.

 

[awbb]

Regarding Culture.
 

For me, Pearson altered the way our players thought and acted on the pitch.

After several years under LJ who was tactically obsessive where he appeared to coach that every phase in a match should trigger a specific action or reaction from each player in the team.

This caused issues in that, due to that and other coaching factors, the players seemed to lose the ability to take responsibility for themselves and their team mates on the pitch and as seeing now, players became scared of making mistakes and ironically made more of them because of it. 

Pearson changed this. He wanted our players to ‘all be leaders’ as the cliche says and made attempts to empower them to do that his focus was on general responsibility (rather than tactical responsibilities).

This was coupled with his desire to sort out the playing squad where there were a several players with attitudes that did not meet his standard (commonly accepted: Bakinson generally, Watkins not fancying training and Wells needing to remind himself how to be a good squad member are examples). This drove professionalism and team ethics. Lastly he made it clear that the disparity in wages was a hinderance to team dynamics and needed to be resolved.

Pearson also made the point that the whole club needed to be united and made more attempts to link the women’s team to the men’s.

The last time a manger changed our culture so drastically, he’d just taken over the mess left by our, now, Technical Director. Make of that what you will.

Manning is similar to Lee Johnson only his fixation is process as opposed to tactics. Ultimately the outcome, at this point, is the same.

It’s a legitimate argument to say that Pearson had achieved his remit and was therefore disposable, but his successor should have been far more attuned to the way our players had been coached to think and act. 

[rednotblue]

It isn't simple though.

Manning being sacked calls in to question BT and JL management/decision making.

 

[S_C]

5 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Maybe in the short term, Dave. A new man may be able to deliver a few more points and a more attractive style of football.

But medium-long term the club will not succeed with the current set-up.

In fact, even with a better man in the head coach role, I predict we are now seeing the early signs of regression which could start to get worse rather quickly unless something fundamental changes. 

Exactly this.

As harsh as it sounds, Manning needs to succeed or be allowed to fail to facilitate significant change.

Great, let’s get a new fall guy in. Maybe he’ll win a few games and the mood can shift from ‘significant change is needed’ to ‘still think there’s room to improve operations’. Anyone who thinks that wouldn’t happen, that they’ll be celebrating wins but still have the same adamancy that the hierarchy is busted, is utterly naive.

Everyone wants the club to be successful. If Manning is replaced and we’re suddenly PL bound terrific, happy to admit I was wrong and the current setup was capable of achieving the words they freely throw around. But with BT/JL at the helm we’ll only appoint Manning clones, and just continually paper the cracks with fans declaring they either like or dislike the current coach as a first point of reference.

SL genuinely baffles me. He clearly wants to move on but trusts his investment with people who are detriment to the product. Do we think, in any reality, that a buyer is found and they retain the services of BT with his current influence. Some of the criticism is a bit much, I don’t doubt he has what he considers the best interests of the club at heart and, broadly, respect his long-service, but the 30 year stuff as an argument for competency summed up the situation. I can’t rationalise out of it. It’s mind boggling. Shit hit the fan so we SOS’d a genuine outsider in Pearson who didn’t fit the mould. We kept him long enough to remedy the situation then reset to a point with echoes of where it started going wrong.

Hi Nigel, we’ve made some bad decisions here and are up shit creek, can you come in and sort this out?

Hi Nigel, thanks for sorting that out for us, you’re not needed anymore, we’re going to go the young coach route again and chuck money at it once more. We’ll keep you on speed dial..

Make it make sense.

[Mr Popodopolous]

15 minutes ago, awbb said:

Regarding Culture.
 

For me, Pearson altered the way our players thought and acted on the pitch.

After several years under LJ who was tactically obsessive where he appeared to coach that every phase in a match should trigger a specific action or reaction from each player in the team.

This caused issues in that, due to that and other coaching factors, the players seemed to lose the ability to take responsibility for themselves and their team mates on the pitch and as seeing now, players became scared of making mistakes and ironically made more of them because of it. 

Pearson changed this. He wanted our players to ‘all be leaders’ as the cliche says and made attempts to empower them to do that his focus was on general responsibility (rather than tactical responsibilities).

This was coupled with his desire to sort out the playing squad where there were a several players with attitudes that did not meet his standard (commonly accepted: Bakinson generally, Watkins not fancying training and Wells needing to remind himself how to be a good squad member are examples). This drove professionalism and team ethics. Lastly he made it clear that the disparity in wages was a hinderance to team dynamics and needed to be resolved.

Pearson also made the point that the whole club needed to be united and made more attempts to link the women’s team to the men’s.

The last time a manger changed our culture so drastically, he’d just taken over the mess left by our, now, Technical Director. Make of that what you will.

Manning is similar to Lee Johnson only his fixation is process as opposed to tactics. Ultimately the outcome, at this point, is the same.

It’s a legitimate argument to say that Pearson had achieved his remit and was therefore disposable, but his successor should have been far more attuned to the way our players had been coached to think and act. 

Shame Lee Johnson for all his obsession with tactics, didn't necessarily often choose the right tactics for what he had.

Worst of all worlds..before we get onto the man-management, the tinkering, the duplications, the waste etc.

[Nogbad the Bad]

4 minutes ago, rednotblue said:

It isn't simple though.

Manning being sacked calls in to question BT and JL management/decision making.

 

But even more so if they don't sack him.

The longer they leave it the worse it gets for them, us and the club.

It would actually be in their favour to hold their hands up, humbly admit it hasn't worked, and give a new man time to set up his squad for next season.

With the 2 week break no better time to do the deed than tonight imo.

Might make at least a few of 4-5k STH's rethink about deserting the club too.

 

[awbb]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Shame Lee Johnson for all his obsession with tactics, didn't necessarily often choose the right tactics for what he had.

Worst of all worlds..before we get onto the man-management, the tinkering, the duplications, the waste etc.

I was trying to stop myself from getting in to that and limit myself to where we were when NP took over and my understanding of cultural impact he had. 

But, yeah, LJ didn’t (and likely still doesn’t) have the chops to do it the way he wanted to but, god knows, the recruitment did him no favours!

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, awbb said:

I was trying to stop myself from getting in to that and limit myself to where we were when NP took over and my understanding of cultural impact he had. 

But, yeah, LJ didn’t (and likely still doesn’t) have the chops to do it the way he wanted to but, god knows, the recruitment did him no favours!

Yeah back on your point.

LJ, too obsessed with tactics. LM, god knows.

Neither especially empowered or inspired however.

NP very much changed and improved the culture.

Edited March 16 by Mr Popodopolous

[Atticus]

1 hour ago, Frenchay Red said:

Absolutely no "if" about it.

Well then, he needs to be first out of the door. 

The complete arrogance is unreal and I can only assume its purely ego driven. 

And the lansdowns falling for his bullshit once again is actually astonishing.  Complete and utter incompetence to be hoodwinked by what I feel almost inclined to call a charlatan. 

[Old Sodbury Red Evs]

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Perhaps Steve Lansdown being at the game means changes are afoot.

 

1 hour ago, Frenchay Red said:

Absolutely no "if" about it.

Absolutely ‘King’ Tinnon 100% to blame… if you know you know